Support NeoGAF

[Turk1993]

FH5 is a good looking Last Gen game, but lets not overrate the graphics.



It's extremely gamey looking with aggressive pop in. It looks like a game that last gen consoles could run where FF16 at least at times feels like the PS4 can't run it. Given that its pushing the PS5 proves this.

Show me those FF16 gameplay shots that look better than those because i haven't seen them yet. And we are not even talking about the way you can destroy almost 70% of the trees and foliage in Forza all with fully dynamic tod and weather in a open world vs static linear designed FF16 with some open areas. And no shit you see some pop in, you can go 500km/h next to places with 1000's of highly detailed 3d trees and vegetation, vs slow walking of other games.

Outside the second one and the last 2 they are all before the RT and DLSS patch, which had worse iq and softer edges with CA that you could not disable back then. So the game looks much much better than those now.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

That game looks "next gen"-ish with amazing materials and geometry one second and then all the way down to PS3 level visuals the next, and even that is bought with tiny 100% static levels and zero background dynamics in the game world.
Assets and characters are ridiculously uneven as is the lighting.
If that is supposed to be "next gen" then this gen is fucked.

If tell me you haven't played FFXVI without telling me you haven't played FFXVI was a post.

 

[Caio]

Graphical fidelity I expect this gen ? I think this is a good start

Things will be interesting from now on, we won't be disappointed.

 

[Schmendrick]

If tell me you haven't played FFXVI without telling me you haven't played FFXVI was a post.

I beat that game and you are in dire need of new prescription glasses.

“my console is running this in real time and it looks like a cgi movie. That’s cool!” And there’s nothing wrong with that honestly. If gameplay looks marginally less pristine then…

"marginally"...riiight.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

Graphical fidelity I expect this gen ? I think this is a good start

Things will be interesting from now on, we won't be disappointed.

I have been trying not to post spoilers but yea the game goes crazy graphically, people talking about the cutscene models when the drop off in quality from FFXVI cutscene models to in game models is one of the lowest drops I have ever seen. Meanwhile people keep posting cs models of TLOU2 and saying the game actually looks like that. Shits crazy.

I beat that game and you are in dire need of new prescription glasses.

"marginally"...riiight.

You saying that you beat the game and saying the world is "tiny" just makes me not believe you. For a closed linear world, the map areas are huge.

 

[Schmendrick]

for a closed linear world,

Closed linear .... Huge.
Think long and hard about what you just said.

As if some people had never played other games. .....

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

Closed linear .... Huge.
Think long and hard about what you just said.

As if some people had never played other games. .....

Maybe you should do some thinking. It is a closed linear game with large maps. That is the actual description of the game, despite whatever fud you're trying to peddle. No one ever said anything about people not having played other games but the bullshit around this one is monumental.


About the cutscene vs gameplay discussion, let's be real.

Getting shots without the HUD is very difficult but possible in a few sections. These are all in game, not photomode and not cutscenes. Not saying it's the best thing ever but the in game model holds up very well, more than likely because the cutscenes are also rendered in game. The only time they use a prerendered Clive model is later in the game and it is fucking jarring as hell and pulls you completely out of that moment.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Closed linear .... Huge.
Think long and hard about what you just said.

As if some people had never played other games. .....

Wait how did you do that? You literally quoted something I never said

 

[rofif]

Maybe you should do some thinking. It is a closed linear game with large maps. That is the actual description of the game, despite whatever fud you're trying to peddle. No one ever said anything about people not having played other games but the bullshit around this one is monumental.


About the cutscene vs gameplay discussion, let's be real.

Getting shots without the HUD is very difficult but possible in a few sections. These are all in game, not photomode and not cutscenes. Not saying it's the best thing ever but the in game model holds up very well, more than likely because the cutscenes are also rendered in game. The only time they use a prerendered Clive model is later in the game and it is fucking jarring as hell and pulls you completely out of that moment.

Yeah I posted 2 batches of shots 2 pages back. Cutscene (real time or not, no idea) and pure gameplay. here https://www.neogaf.com/threads/graphical-fidelity-i-expect-this-gen.1623441/page-144#post-268145066
I lied a little bit to test people. This shot is gameplay. It's a character npc in the hideout. I only opened photo mode to take a better angle. But this is in game, in gameplay, in world model and lighting.
It's not a cutscene. you walk around

 

[Schmendrick]

Wait how did you do that? You literally quoted something I never said

Got scrambled up with the other quote from the guy that thinks "long corridors = huge levels" I guess.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I beat that game and you are in dire need of new prescription glasses.

"marginally"...riiight.

Yes it is right

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

Yeah I posted 2 batches of shots 2 pages back. Cutscene (real time or not, no idea) and pure gameplay. here https://www.neogaf.com/threads/graphical-fidelity-i-expect-this-gen.1623441/page-144#post-268145066
I lied a little bit to test people. This shot is gameplay. It's a character npc in the hideout. I only opened photo mode to take a better angle. But this is in game, in gameplay, in world model and lighting.
It's not a cutscene. you walk around

Trust me man, I get it. Trying to upload higher quality. Not my pics but damn.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[SlimySnake]

I love how Final Fantasy has caused a civil war in this thread. We all used to be on the same side just a few weeks ago. Banded together against our cross gen enemy and lazy devs. Now we cant decide if graphics look PS3.5 or CGi.

It's true what they say, you either die a hero or you live long enough to see CG in everything.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I really don't know what to tell you.

I'm not that far into the game but I havn't come across an area that doesn't look great. Keep seeing references to the ps3 like ..what?

 

[Alex11]

I love how Final Fantasy has caused a civil war in this thread. We all used to be on the same side just a few weeks ago. Banded together against our cross gen enemy and lazy devs. Now we cant decide if graphics look PS3.5 or CGi.

It's true what they say, you either die a hero or you live long enough to see CG in everything.

Yeah, it's a shame, because honestly it's a beautiful game with gorgeous art style, and I'm firstly for the art style, but it can't be from PS3 to CGI, every game has less polished areas and whatnot, but this is exaggerated a bit.

At what I do think FFXVI does an amazing job, is the hair rendering, it is very cool.
But CGI, no way, can easily tell it isn't, for me only TLOU part 1, 2 and HFW faces gave me CGI vibes, dunno who and where posted some pics that I dropped my jaw. And even those after some nitpicking you could tell they have some way to go.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm not that far into the game but I havn't come across an area that doesn't look great. Keep seeing references to the ps3 like ..what?

Not ps3. PS3.5 to be more accurate lol.

 

[GooseMan69]

Yeah FF16 is definitely a game with a scale and ambition that outgrew its budget. I doubt it cost nearly as much as Horizon for instance. Love the game to death though.

 

[Edder1]

Seems like you have a hang up on cutscenes for whatever reason and that’s fine

The pathos is not complicated though, you can explain your stance up and down but I think where people are coming from is really as simple as “my console is running this in real time and it looks like a cgi movie. That’s cool!” And there’s nothing wrong with that honestly. If gameplay looks marginally less pristine then… okay. Not the end of the world.

The guys you’re debating are simply enthused that the $500 next gen console they bought is outputting real time visuals that look amazing. Yes. In a cutscene. But with no trickery. No deception. Not pre-rendered. Really running on their tvs for their eyes to feast on. People like that. You happen to not. Just a difference of perspective that’s all

Cutscenes are just movies with no player input whatsoever and they represent a very small part of one's experience. If you think that's worth bragging about when it comes to graphics while 90% of the rest of the time you're spending in a considerably worse looking game where you can actually interact instead of watching a movie then big up to you. I just don't get it.

 

[CGNoire]

If gameplay looks marginally less pristine then… okay

Yes but thats never the case anymore.

 

[CGNoire]

Ive said it countless times before and Ill say it again....

Some of yall have zero ability to seperate your adoration for a specific anime aesthestic and artstyle from your "technical" anaylis of graphics. Anime stans seem the most afflicted by this.

Like please for the love of god stop posting characters covered in low res texture work and blurry ass enviroments and claiming there proof of some technical achievment. You love the aesthetic ....end of story.

 

[Robbinhood]

Show me those FF16 gameplay shots that look better than those because i haven't seen them yet. And we are not even talking about the way you can destroy almost 70% of the trees and foliage in Forza all with fully dynamic tod and weather in a open world vs static linear designed FF16 with some open areas. And no shit you see some pop in, you can go 500km/h next to places with 1000's of highly detailed 3d trees and vegetation, vs slow walking of other games.

Outside the second one and the last 2 they are all before the RT and DLSS patch, which had worse iq and softer edges with CA that you could not disable back then. So the game looks much much better than those now.

I don’t know why you’re posting pc shots I’m talking consoles. Watch the vid I sent it looks not that good. Forza is also the king of pretty in shots but not in motion. I personally played on pc and it doesn’t blow you away when you’re actually driving. Plus it looks goofy as hell going 1000 mph through rocks and trees, what a dumb premise for a racing game.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Cutscenes are just movies with no player input whatsoever and they represent a very small part of one's experience. If you think that's worth bragging about when it comes to graphics while 90% of the rest of the time you're spending in a considerably worse looking game where you can actually interact instead of watching a movie then big up to you. I just don't get it.

Okay well again dude, the first half of this response is completely irrelevant to what I’m saying. I understand you don’t like the concept. Everything else I said still stands. There’s not really a counter to what I said it’s just as simple as some people don’t have a problem showcasing graphics in cutscenes and you do.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Yes but thats never the case anymore.

I wouldn’t go that far

 

[Edder1]

Okay well again dude, the first half of this response is completely irrelevant to what I’m saying. I understand you don’t like the concept. Everything else I said still stands. There’s not really a counter to what I said it’s just as simple as some people don’t have a problem showcasing graphics in cutscenes and you do.

Also you completely missed my point. My comment had to do with people saying "this game looks like CGI" while showing pics of cutscenes, whereas in reality 90% of the game looks nothing like CGI, lol.

 

[CGNoire]

I wouldn’t go that far

The difference in 99% of AAA tittles is massive now. Even if they use the same model(which they rarely do) the higher quality lighting and self shadowing make the difference pretty massive.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Also you completely missed my point. My comment had to do with people saying "this game looks like CGI" while showing pics of cutscenes, whereas in reality 90% of the game looks nothing like CGI, lol.

Well okay. I disagree but let’s for the sake of the argument say you’re right about everything you just said.

They’re still right. The game, in that instance you just laid out, would look like cgi while running in real time. Just in a quantity and a format not to your satisfaction. Which is subjective and doesn’t have bearing on how it actually looks

 

[arkhamguy123]

The difference in 99% of AAA tittles is massive now. Even if they use the same model(which they rarely do) the higher quality lighting and self shadowing make the difference pretty massive.

Not calling you a liar by any means but im a pretty avid gamer and play a lot of the latest stuff and I haven’t noticed some recent trend where there’s this huge gulf now between real time cutscenes and gameplay

 

[Edder1]

Well okay. I disagree but let’s for the sake of the argument say you’re right about everything you just said.

They’re still right. The game, in that instance you just laid out, would look like cgi while running in real time. Just in a quantity and a format not to your satisfaction. Which is subjective and doesn’t have bearing on how it actually looks

"Game" lol.

 

[CGNoire]

Not calling you a liar by any means but im a pretty avid gamer and play a lot of the latest stuff and I haven’t noticed some recent trend where there’s this huge gulf now between real time cutscenes and gameplay

I have. Lighting is the main carrot that game devs have held in front of us for decades now. So having the lighting being far far superior in cutscenes is fucking bullshit and negates the benefits of realtime cutscenes to the consumer in general.

Originally the move to realtime cutscenes was to remove the jarring contrast that cgi scenes used fo illicit but now the difference keeps getting farther and farther away to the point where only devs are benefiting from easier development. Back in the day the average cutscene upgrades where miniscule at best. MGS3 for example had that enviroment map applied to sokolov's coat and the wind simulation (most likely precanned) applied to characteds clothing but that was about it. Now a days its higher poly characters, higher quality lighting, higher quality textures, higher quality materials and shaders, higher quality effects, added self shadowing, higher quality shadow maps etc....and all at once to bute.

All this progress and it feels like where moving bqck to where we started long ago with prerendered cgi.Shits absurd exspecially since its used by fans as some proof of our arrival. Arrival where machinama land? I dont give a flykng fuck about cutscenes visuals when the game characters never seem to have anywhere near the upgrade others claim. Im sure devs love this confusion since it just equals more hype and thus more sales.

 

[SlimySnake]

I have. Lighting is the main carrot that game devs have held in front of us for decades now. So having the lighting being far far superior in cutscenes is fucking bullshit and negates the benefits of realtime cutscenes to the consumer in general.

Originally the move to realtime cutscenes was to remove the jarring contrast that cgi scenes used fo illicit but now the difference keeps getting farther and farther away to the point where only devs are benefiting from easier development. Back in the day the average cutscene upgrades where miniscule at best. MGS3 for example had that enviroment map applied to sokolov's coat and the wind simulation (most likely precanned) applied to characteds clothing but that was about it. Now a days its higher poly characters, higher quality lighting, higher quality textures, higher quality materials and shaders, higher quality effects, added self shadowing, higher quality shadow maps etc....and all at once to bute. All this progress and it feels like where moving bqck to where we started long ago with prerendered cgi.Shits absurd exspecially since its used by fans as some proof of our arrival. Arrival where machinama land? I dont give a flykng fuck about cutscenes visuals when the game characters never seem to have anywhere near the upgrade others claim. Im sure devs love this confusion since it just equals more hype and thus more sales.

Yeah. I really don’t like how some games have just as big a gulf between real-time cutscenes and gameplay now as they did when they were using pre-rendered cutscenes.

Only Horizon which uses hero lighting comes close to the character model. Tlou2 and tlou1 are clear bullshots in cutscenes. Ff16 isn’t the worst offender either but that character model i posted earlier appears later in the game and doesn’t look nearly as good so now I’m wondering if that was one of the prerendered cutscenes. I’d say ff16 has the same exact asset quality, character models and lighting in cutscenes as they do in gameplay. They just cheat sometimes by sneaking in some cg cutscenes in there.

 

[Negotiator101]

I have. Lighting is the main carrot that game devs have held in front of us for decades now. So having the lighting being far far superior in cutscenes is fucking bullshit and negates the benefits of realtime cutscenes to the consumer in general.

Originally the move to realtime cutscenes was to remove the jarring contrast that cgi scenes used fo illicit but now the difference keeps getting farther and farther away to the point where only devs are benefiting from easier development. Back in the day the average cutscene upgrades where miniscule at best. MGS3 for example had that enviroment map applied to sokolov's coat and the wind simulation (most likely precanned) applied to characteds clothing but that was about it. Now a days its higher poly characters, higher quality lighting, higher quality textures, higher quality materials and shaders, higher quality effects, added self shadowing, higher quality shadow maps etc....and all at once to bute.

All this progress and it feels like where moving bqck to where we started long ago with prerendered cgi.Shits absurd exspecially since its used by fans as some proof of our arrival. Arrival where machinama land? I dont give a flykng fuck about cutscenes visuals when the game characters never seem to have anywhere near the upgrade others claim. Im sure devs love this confusion since it just equals more hype and thus more sales.

So downgrade the cutscenes? Make parts of your game worse to better fit the gameplay? Makes no sense at all, you can't have those graphics in game because the console/PC can't run it unfortunately.

 

[Dice]

I see two battles happening in graphics.

First is detail vs scope. The most detailed games are usually corridors that go through a series of squeeze points. It's just hard to make something extremely nice like TLOU2 but also open and grand. Even today you see people complaining that Starfield doesn't look like TLOU2 but Starfield is much more open and the conversations aren't autonomous directed cutscenes. So this battle between fidelity and scope will be here not only because of the tech but because of budgets, time, manpower, development cohesion, etc. There will be tradeoff between these two elements for a long time. Middleware is being developed to try and help, but still only just beginning.

The second is a lot more straightforward and it's lighting vs performance. The capacity for better lighting is so present that it feels infinite. Even in the most advanced CG films you can see the differences between those who had the money and time to really show it off and who didn't. In videogames you have it far worse because you have to worry about realtime performance. Yes, we're getting good advancements in RT technologies, but I don't think people really realize just how many options and layers there are to making it prettier and prettier. Lighting vs performance is here to stay for a good long while.

 

[GymWolf]

Wait how did you do that? You literally quoted something I never said

 

[CGNoire]

So downgrade the cutscenes? Make parts of your game worse to better fit the gameplay? Makes no sense at all, you can't have those graphics in game because the console/PC can't run it unfortunately.

Who sayed Downgrade? Im saying dont upgrade the cutscenes cause thats whats happening. The cutscenes are being used as vertical slices foflr hype and advertising not just among fans but from devs. They need to stop with that BS. Its getting just as jarring as 2000 era cgi.

You said "make parts of the game worse.." cutscenes are not part of "the game" there just a "chosen tool" for providing character development, storyline, and additonal lore to increase the gamers attachment to the characters and the world during gameplay.

PC could totally run PS4 quality cutscene graphics during gameplay if devs gave a shit about properly porting the game instead of relying on brute force like so many do today.

 

[Rheon]

Show me those FF16 gameplay shots that look better than those because i haven't seen them yet. And we are not even talking about the way you can destroy almost 70% of the trees and foliage in Forza all with fully dynamic tod and weather in a open world vs static linear designed FF16 with some open areas. And no shit you see some pop in, you can go 500km/h next to places with 1000's of highly detailed 3d trees and vegetation, vs slow walking of other games.

Outside the second one and the last 2 they are all before the RT and DLSS patch, which had worse iq and softer edges with CA that you could not disable back then. So the game looks much much better than those now.

Honestly this looks way more impressive than FF16 to my eyes.

 

[Negotiator101]

Who sayed Downgrade? Im saying dont upgrade the cutscenes cause thats whats happening. The cutscenes are being used as vertical slices foflr hype and advertising not just among fans but from devs. Just stop with that BS. Its getting just as jarring as 2000 era cgi.

You said "make parts of the game worse.." cutscenes are not part of "the game" there just a "chosen tool" for providing character development, storyline, and additonal lore to increase the gamers attachment to the characters and the world during gameplay.

PC could totally run PS4 quality cutscene graphics during gameplay if devs gave a shit about properly porting the game instead of relying on brute force like so many do today.

So part of the game, telling a story is a huge part of most games and I for one want as high fidelity as possible. Yes consistency is important but the gulf you say exists is not that significant and nothing like the CGI to gameplay we used to have. In your world you'd have gameplay level lighting and models in cutscenes and that's going to make those scenes look worse.

 

[CGNoire]

So part of the game, telling a story is a huge part of most games and I for one want as high fidelity as possible. Yes consistency is important but the gulf you say exists is not that significant and nothing like the CGI to gameplay we used to have.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

In your world you'd have gameplay level lighting and models in cutscenes and that's going to make those scenes look worse.

Yes and that would overall be a good thing.

 

[Caio]

I love how Final Fantasy has caused a civil war in this thread. We all used to be on the same side just a few weeks ago. Banded together against our cross gen enemy and lazy devs. Now we cant decide if graphics look PS3.5 or CGi.

It's true what they say, you either die a hero or you live long enough to see CG in everything.

More than a civil war, I see a lot of immature gamers...

 

[SlimySnake]

I see a lot of immature gamers...

Is there any other kind?

 

[SlimySnake]

Played a level last night that gave me The Order 1886 vibes with its lighting and city design. Other Devs need to look at exactly what they are doing with the lighting choices in this game because it honestly looks better than a lot of the premiere last gen games at times. This might be all down to art rather than tech, but there is a reason why the order still looks like one of the best games of the gen. Devs last gen werent able to match the thick pre-rendered feel of the order, and i think FF16 comes close in certain areas like this one. You can tell that the asset quality is last gen, textures are meh at best, and yet despite all those flaws, they are able to produce some stunning visuals.

A couple of really cool explosions with debris crumbling down from buildings. Canned yes, but i am so glad to be seeing stuff like this in video games after spending a gen and a half playing static video games.

 

[nemiroff]

FH5 is a good looking Last Gen game, but lets not overrate the graphics.



It's extremely gamey looking with aggressive pop in. It looks like a game that last gen consoles could run where FF16 at least at times feels like the PS4 can't run it. Given that its pushing the PS5 proves this.

You deliberately posted a 1080p video of the 60fps performance mode on console, and then called the pop-in "aggressive". As if nobody would notice the obvious narrative. It makes you look dumb.

Watch the vid I sent it looks not that good. the king of pretty in shots but not in motion. it doesn’t blow you away when you’re actually driving. it looks goofy as hell going 1000 mph through rocks and trees, what a dumb premise for a racing game.

 

[Celcius]

Anyone calling ff16's graphics ps3-ish haven't played an actual ps3 in a long time.

 

[Musilla]

 

[H . R . 2]

I wish ND could helm that rumoured AAA John Wick Game

 

[Represent.]

Jesus Christ what a goddamn masterpiece this game is.

Look at that beautiful hit reaction and visceral combat/gunplay.

UN.TOUCHED. Period.

 

[Musilla]

 

[ChiefDada]

.

Man I really hate to blast a game that looks good in many instances but this is a perfect example of when it doesn't. Look at how the lack of localized lighting makes the entire scene look dull and overblown. It's almost as if removing the electric bulbs wouldn't matter one bit and the cave will continue to be shaded purple (because it would). From now on they should treat lighting of every interior with the same care they gave to Burning Shore cauldron, at minimum. I will no longer accept this from GG and Naughty Dog (TLOU is guilty of this too).

 

[Turk1993]

UE5.2 finally released the forest demo, this is what i expected from current gen. But at this point im 100% sure that not even ND will match this quality this gen, maybe PS6.

 

[SlimySnake]

UE5.2 finally released the forest demo, this is what i expected from current gen. But at this point im 100% sure that not even ND will match this quality this gen, maybe PS6.

Looks cg. lol

Link?