According to some articles that i read yesterday microsoft claimed that next gen xbox needs to be even more flexible. Do you think this means that we'll again see multiple iterations of the console? Wouldn't that hold back graphics for third parties for ANOTHER gen just like Series S does this gen?
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
This video is making the sequel look like a straight up DLC imho.
Sure lighting is better and you have more NPC, but all and all the map looks to be exactly the same (for the third time in a row!) and the overall visual fidelity does not seem to be from a different gen at all.
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As a tech programer is see a lot of small improvements but much of the Ps4 technology hasn't changed yet. Even with this increased speed on the open world traversal the Ps5 SSD and I/O capabilities still underutilized.
I know Insomniac have very talented people. But it's seems they don't have time with all these frenetic pace of game development and releases to completely rewrite the core of the engine for fully use Ps5 architecture.
arkhamguy123
Banned
Yes. Microsoft is a cancer on the industry
arkhamguy123
Banned
Yikes. Awful. Imagine if Arkham knight looked just like Arkham city.
Bluepoint, a small low budget studio, had a generational leap from shadow of the colossus remake to demon souls remake
Bethesda had one from fallout 4 to starfield
Ubisoft has one from division to avatar
What’s goin on insomniac?
Schmendrick
Member
You don`t get to have the kind of product output frequency Insomniac has if you`re not willing to massively recycle everything you can.
I mean...it still looks very good, just not exceptional by any means.
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Pharaoh 117
Member
I agree, but it doesn't make it any less disappointing. When your 2 and a half years old game look more impressive than our brand new one something went really wrong.
Schmendrick
Member
Well, that is our point of view, and I agree. However we all know the game will sell like crazy again and people are praising their graphical updates as is, so why would Insomniac choose to go back to the drawing board with every game and prolong their release cycles if it would mean less profit in the end?
I hate it, but I can understand it.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Microsofts latest leaks absolutely reek of a lack of ambition. The new Series X refresh isn't anymore powerful, instead "more flexible"? What the fuck?
And they just want to fucking buy everything in existence rather than compete.
They'll put every game on every system (except PS) and make them endlessly scaleable - which would cripple graphical fidelity for generations to come.
Honestly what a gross ass company. No ambition. No heart. No compete in them at all. Think im done with Xbox. You're tripping if you think im supporting their game plan
And they just want to fucking buy everything in existence rather than compete.
They'll put every game on every system (except PS) and make them endlessly scaleable - which would cripple graphical fidelity for generations to come.
Honestly what a gross ass company. No ambition. No heart. No compete in them at all. Think im done with Xbox. You're tripping if you think im supporting their game plan
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They missed a trick by not changing the city. Every open world game GTA to Watch Dogs, Division, Far Cry, Horizon, Infamous you name it, changes the city. Not changing the city and adding two boroughs is lazy as fuck. Zelda is the only other game that reused the same map but they added a brand new underground section that spans the entire map and an entire sky to explore. Not to mention all the new physics.
It's clear that the story is more substantial than DLC expansions like Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty, so its just a silly development decision that makes them look like DLC even though they have likely created a lot of new interior levels where most of the story will take place anyway. Just a big unforced error. GOW was also getting a lot of DLC talk which then went away when people realized just how many new locations were in the game.
Yeah, its obvious that their engineers were busy with Miles and Ratchet seeing as how the tech director is the same for all three games. Those guys probably needed a couple of years on R&D instead of helping ship 2 games back to back in 2020 and 2021. Then move right on to the next big Spiderman game.
The fake teaser shows what they wanted to do. I guess the engineering team just couldnt deliver the changes in time.
One thing I will say is that adding RTGI shouldve been possible even with a 2.5 year dev time. They had RT reflections implemented 3 years ago. RTGI shouldve been the priority instead of adding RT reflections to the ocean and ponds. Star Wars, Avatar, Forza, Starfield, Alan Wake, Cyberpunk are all 2023 releases using RTGI or realtime GI to some excellent results. Star Wars GI is a lot more subtle than say cyberpunk, but i wonder if adding RTGI or realtime GI wouldve been made the visuals pop more.
arkhamguy123
Banned
They’re actually fucking terrible
Don’t worry too much though. It’s important to remember they are the losers. They’re last place. Their relevance dips every console gen. So the chances of them ushering in some industry metamorphosis is slim to none
amigastar
Gold Member
That looks really awesome, my RTX 4070 is ready.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I hope you're right. I want their moves to backfire more than I want Sony's GAAS trash investments to fail.
But why? They are great games, technologically advanced and they sell many many copies.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
well, great is subjective. Ratchet finished 9th in goty tracking in 2021. One of the worst years in gaming. Behind games like Deathloop, Halo Infinite, and psychonuats. Miles was ranked 13th behind Flight Sim and Yakuza. It also sold 1 million in the opening month and failed to chart in the NPD top 20 for the whole year. Definitely didnt sell as well since sony never released anymore sales figures. It flopped on steam.
Their games review well because they hit the right checkboxes but are overlooked at the goty awards because there are far more ambitious titles to consider.
And I wouldnt call adding RT reflections and fast loading technologically advanced. It was the norm in 2020 and 2021. Watch Dogs came out the same time and shipped with RT reflections just like Miles. By the time Ratchet came out, several games had RT effects added. In fact, 2021 had RT in pretty much every AAA game. Guardians of the Galaxy, Hitman, Resident Evil Village, freaking Deathloop, Far Cry 6, not to mention older games with RT patches like Control and Metro.
As good as Ratchet looked, can we really call it technologically advanced if it runs at 60 fps medium settings on a steam deck? Go back to the first page of this thread and you will see me talking about this 2 years ago. They didnt push themselves hard enough back then. They are not doing it today. They are owned by Sony now. Sony has way higher standards than this. between 2009 and 2020, sony won 7 gotys overall. Setting new bar in visual fidelity year after year. if Insomniac wants to be like ubisoft maybe they shouldve sold themselves to Ubisoft.
TLDR: Had they focused on making spiderman 2 for the last five years instead of splitting into two teams and making ratchet and miles for the first 2.5 years, you wouldve gotten a much better spiderman game. Just look at what GG did with Horizon FW in 5 years. Because they didnt waste 2 years on a DLC and 2.5 years on another game that barely sold a million copies.
Hasn’t the main guy at Insomniac who directed the first Spiderman game shifted focus towards Wolverine and other unannounced projects whilst someone else picked up the baton and oversaw the releases of Miles, the Remastered, and now Spiderman 2? I forgot his name for fuck’s sake but he is the main guy at Insomniac and responsible for the success of the first game.
ChiefDada
Member
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Pharaoh 117
Member
I guess the future of this industry is everyone following the sports games model of simple updates since people are going to buy anyway. Sad.
PeteBull
Member
It wont be a war anymore, it will become one sided massacre, both sales wise and in DF comparissions xD
I'm sure they have on mind things like RTGI or some sort of realtime GI solution. But if they choice static time of day then RT reflections are more visually noticeable and saves a lot of resources for other things.
Having said that, adding RTGI or other GI realtime solution on top of RT refections is not easy to do on console, near impossible on 60 fps modes on heavy GPU of CPU sections. You really need to tap on low level hardware functions and make lots of tricks, optimizations and carefully trace and manage per frame data flow to not end out of budget.
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amigastar
Gold Member
Hell yeah, a Dual Sense like controller, i was waiting for that from MS.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nah, Watch Dogs has WAY better reflections than Spiderman. I dont know if that screenshot is from consoles, but PC release shows just how much better the reflections are. You can watch the digital foundry piece on Watch Dogs Legion. It has reflections within reflections, water reflections and better geometry within reflections. Stuff not supported by Spiderman's RT reflections. But thats just on consoles. PC version had way better reflections, obviously.Come on man...
They play in different leagues
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22002652/xboxseriesxnextgen.gif)
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Luipadre
Member
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Yeah he can be annoying at times but he has been right other times as well. Also he basically did a recap of all the rumors of the Pro.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Spiderman has better reflection distance rendering while Watch Dogs has more detailed reflections but within a shorter range. On pc you have both in both titles so win win.Nah, Watch Dogs has WAY better reflections than Spiderman. I dont know if that screenshot is from consoles, but PC release shows just how much better the reflections are. You can watch the digital foundry piece on Watch Dogs Legion. It has reflections within reflections, water reflections and better geometry within reflections. Stuff not supported by Spiderman's RT reflections. But thats just on consoles. PC version had way better reflections, obviously.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
DF said the latest Avatar 60 fps trailer running on PS5 had RTGI. even if they are wrong, i think for 60 fps modes, you can always switch to standard rasterization similar to what Star wars Survivor just did on consoles. Though i know that is extra work on baked lighting.
I dont know. Massive last shipped a game in 2019 then in 4 years managed to ship a new IP with RTGI and RT reflections on three consoles and PC. While also having a second team build Star Wars Outlaw on the side set for release next year. I get that they are a 800 person studio compared to 500 at insomniac but thats on insomniac to properly manage. Maybe turn into a 1 game every 4 year studio.
ChiefDada
Member
Nah, Watch Dogs has WAY better reflections than Spiderman. I dont know if that screenshot is from consoles, but PC release shows just how much better the reflections are. You can watch the digital foundry piece on Watch Dogs Legion. It has reflections within reflections, water reflections and better geometry within reflections. Stuff not supported by Spiderman's RT reflections. But thats just on consoles. PC version had way better reflections, obviously.
Wrong.
Audiophile
Member
Graphically-speaking, it seems Insomniac didn't invest a lot of dev time/budget into assets, but into systems.
It's a great looking game, but it's fair to expect a certain level of visual upgrade between a last-gen/cross-gen title and a current-gen only title from a top first party studio. The fact that I; and it seems many, had to look at side-by-side footage to really appreciate those difference is arguably evidence in itself that the jump isn't particularly impactful or self evident and is more evolutionary in specific categories vs revolutionary across the board.
My hope is that this is just them turning the game around efficiently as possible and cranking dials up in the existing engine, while Wolverine shows the major jump we're hoping for and really pushes the boat out.
Certain titles this gen have had specific elements that really impress me but I haven't had that next-gen wow moment in terms of visuals, simulation or interactivity.
It's a great looking game, but it's fair to expect a certain level of visual upgrade between a last-gen/cross-gen title and a current-gen only title from a top first party studio. The fact that I; and it seems many, had to look at side-by-side footage to really appreciate those difference is arguably evidence in itself that the jump isn't particularly impactful or self evident and is more evolutionary in specific categories vs revolutionary across the board.
My hope is that this is just them turning the game around efficiently as possible and cranking dials up in the existing engine, while Wolverine shows the major jump we're hoping for and really pushes the boat out.
Certain titles this gen have had specific elements that really impress me but I haven't had that next-gen wow moment in terms of visuals, simulation or interactivity.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Alex Casey is a character from Max Payne btw.
Couldn't the whole game be this?! Nobody wants the cop lady gameplay
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The problem is that there have been no leaks since the last leak so hes just tweeting the same shit out to create more engagement to get paid from Elon.
Anyway, since you are interested, id recommend looking at the latest 7700xt benchmarks. Thats basically whats going inside the PS5 in terms of CUs. There might be some ray tracing improvements over that but in terms of tflops, thats what you are getting.
Loxus
Member
Not this time.
Minus Red Gaming Tech, his recap is based on these reputable sources.
Kepler_L2 on Twitter and Tom Henderson.
PeteBull
Member
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7700-xt.c3911 If ps5pr0 is only as strong as 7700xt it would be terribly weak and not worth buying, unless at 500$, there is a reason ps4pr0 was over 2x more tflops vs base ps4, if we dont get similar jump in power with ps5 base vs pr0 model it would mean sony engeener team fucked up big time.
Btw, dont compare tflops from different gens of gpu's, the 30xx and 40xx series have them inflated, same with 7xxx radeon series vs actual performance improvement they give vs older cards, best to gauge increase in performance is always simply check their actual performance(w/o cpu bottleneck ofc).
Here good example 2080ti so flagship turing is 13,45tf https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-2080-ti.c3305 while rtx 3070 which on avg has 5% higher performance has 20,31tf, 7700xt that is 13% faster on avg from rtx 2080ti is rated at 35,17tf
rx 6800 that is 2% avg faster from rx 7700xt has only 16,17tf
So if ps5pr0 is similar in performance to 7700xt then it means its only 60% actual more performance from base ps5 which sits at 10,2tf(boosted).
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That's by far the least improvement we've seen from Insomniac when going from one generation to the next. Shameful stuff.
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Msamy
Member
In terms of graphics this game and avatar will have no competition this year , they are best looking games in 2023 by far no other game close to them in terms of graphics.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
That's a great upgrade on the trees. But it was a background before
Great, thanks for the advice. Yeah that guy likes engagement even before Elon started this whole ad revenue stuff he liked engagements, recycling stuff all the time.
Based on what you just told me seems like the Pro will be a disappointment, but based on what that guy said seems like it will be a decent upgrade over the base!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, the AMD tflops are a joke now, but i just divide them by 2 lol.https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7700-xt.c3911 If ps5pr0 is only as strong as 7700xt it would be terribly weak and not worth buying, unless at 500$, there is a reason ps4pr0 was over 2x more tflops vs base ps4, if we dont get similar jump in power with ps5 base vs pr0 model it would mean sony engeener team fucked up big time.
Btw, dont compare tflops from different gens of gpu's, the 30xx and 40xx series have them inflated, same with 7xxx radeon series vs actual performance improvement they give vs older cards, best to gauge increase in performance is always simply check their actual performance(w/o cpu bottleneck ofc).
Here good example 2080ti so flagship turing is 13,45tf https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-2080-ti.c3305 while rtx 3070 which on avg has 5% higher performance has 20,31tf, 7700xt that is 13% faster on avg from rtx 2080ti is rated at 35,17tf
rx 6800 that is 2% avg faster from rx 7700xt has only 16,17tf
So if ps5pr0 is similar in performance to 7700xt then it means its only 60% actual more performance from base ps5 which sits at 10,2tf(boosted).
I think the fuck up is on AMD. Polaris was a massive leap with 1.25x IPC gains. RDNA3 has no IPC gains. Polaris let them double the CUs going from 28nm to 16nm, RDNA3 can barely even get them 50%. As you know despite what the leaks say, 60 CU is not what you are getting. It will be 54 because they need to disable two CUs per shader engine. So more like a 7700xt than a 7800xt.
Now it's possible that they shrink the nodes down even more by 2024 and get even higher clocks, but there is only so much you can do with 54 CUs. i was hopnig for 72 CUs but RDNA3 is so bad its pretty much impossible to get that.
Yeah, keep your expectations in check. There are rumors that RDNA4 Ray tracing will be way better than current AMD ray tracing so even if they get a 50-60% tflops boost (pre rdna 3 tflops), if RT performance gets a good 25% boost along with a 25% IPC gain from RDNA 4 architecture, we could be looking at 100% more performance. Far more in line with the PS4 Pro boost.
But thats a lot of ifs i know. The most important thing is that getting that IPC gain and then RT performance to get on par with nvidia. MS leaks show they are already researching AI stuff so maybe MS and Cerny can help AMD with a DLSS like solution. Probably not going to happen in time for the mid gen refresh though.
Alex11
Member
So the 3.5 improves the RT, damn , it's going to look even more mindblowing.
Robbinhood
Banned
I couldn't disagree more on AW2. Its dark, textures aren't particularly impressive, its not special. Horizon looiks way better.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
PS Blog just posted next gen PS5 features.
There is more here but i left out dumb shit like 3d audio and haptics.
blog.playstation.com
How Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 taps into the power of PS5
There is more here but i left out dumb shit like 3d audio and haptics.
How Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 taps into the power of PS5
Discover how the anticipated sequel will make your DualSense controller and Spidey-senses tingle.
blog.playstation.com
This reads more like some select visual settings being pushed from medium to high than jumping from a gen to the next if I am being honestPS Blog just posted next gen PS5 features.
How Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 taps into the power of PS5
There is more here but i left out dumb shit like 3d audio and haptics.
How Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 taps into the power of PS5
Discover how the anticipated sequel will make your DualSense controller and Spidey-senses tingle.
That doesn't mean anything if your tech is already above the average game coming out. You are implying path tracing in Cyberpunk is a marginal upgrade from the base game.
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