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[IDWhite]

What do I have to cope for? I told a lot of you clowns in this thread and others that the game will look better and better up until release because it's still in development. Were y'all wrong or was I right?



And the usual suspects are making the same mistakes of jumping to conclusions based on a 6 week+ build. Some people never learn.

These conclusions are made knowing that on 6 weeks+ you don't have time to change the base technology behind the game. Of course you can polish some models, add an extra light here for this cinematic, change some visual effects there and make lots of small changes on things that don't compromise the performance of the game. But what we are not going to see is a city rebuild from the ground up to take full advantage of Ps5 tech.

 

[SlimySnake]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

 

[ChiefDada]

These conclusions are made knowing that on 6 weeks+ you don't have time to change the base technology behind the game. Of course you can polish some models, add an extra light here for this cinematic, change some visual effects there and make lots of small changes on things that don't compromise the performance of the game. But what we are not going to see is a city rebuild from the ground up to take full advantage of Ps5 tech.

You're new so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but textures, lighting, etc. is EXACTLY what most in this thread were saying would NOT change during the initial gameplay reveal. They've since been proven wrong, but amnesia selectively kicks in whenever this happens, poor souls.

As to why you think Insomniac's NYC should be rebuilt from the ground up is such a weird request commonly trumpeted by people who again simply don't understand game development. Common in this thread. But this game is easily the best showcase of the PS5 tech with:

1. RT Reflections significantly improved specifically due to changes in skyscraper buildings with more reflective materials
2. Far more dense city
2. 3x faster traversal which compounds just how impressive the dense environments are
3. Seamless transitions where you can fast travel to ANY random section of the map, no designated FT locations as was the case in prior games
4. GI system providing day and night difference compared to SM 2018/MM
5. Facial Animation improvements

 

[Luipadre]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

PC version looks so much better. Console version lacks good shadows even with RT mode, performance mode will look even worse. Also its shimmering galore thanks to low ress+ shit FSR

 

[PeteBull]

It was realtime. I recall people moving the camera around and stuff. Yeah, it was closed off demo not a fully open world but i was hoping that the smaller more linear games on switch would come close to this.

Lets see how switch 2 games graphical fidelity gonna compare, we all are old and experienced enough to know that believing in demos/trailers only leads to dissapointment, we got burned easily hundreds of times by now, at the least ;>

To not look far, we all remember totk trailer, gameplay at that and yet once year later DF checked how it really looks we got this timestamped to flat 20fps dips, and about image quality, again timestamped nuff said =D

 

[ChiefDada]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

Someone needs to revoke your driver's license before you kill someone.

There's so much more assets "glowing" in the PS5 version compared to PC. I'm convinced you just like shiny, vibrant games and will claim better lighting based on whichever game is the brightest.

 

[alloush]

Someone needs to revoke your driver's license before you kill someone.

There's so much more assets "glowing" in the PS5 version compared to PC. I'm convinced you just like shiny, vibrant games and will claim better lighting based on whichever game is the brightest.

Wait, so PS5 version is better? I haven’t seen the clip yet.

 

[Alex11]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

Tons of differences, just look at 2:25 ish, the softer shadows and all that on the characters and car, that was immediately apparent.
And throughout the video, you see the same, Overdrive has more shadows, better AO, better lighting, no light leaks, etc.

Of course not all differences are in your face, some of them are subtle, and who knows, maybe they did improve the graphics on the console and especially in the DLC, Seeing it's a separate and smaller area.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Someone needs to revoke your driver's license before you kill someone.

There's so much more assets "glowing" in the PS5 version compared to PC. I'm convinced you just like shiny, vibrant games and will claim better lighting based on whichever game is the brightest.

The big difference is in the self shadowing of the characters. It’s often the difference of it looking realistic and it looking like a (last gen) game.
The environments look surprisingly similar to me.

 

[IDWhite]

You're new so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but textures, lighting, etc. is EXACTLY what most in this thread were saying would NOT change during the initial gameplay reveal. They've since been proven wrong, but amnesia selectively kicks in whenever this happens, poor souls.

As to why you think Insomniac's NYC should be rebuilt from the ground up is such a weird request commonly trumpeted by people who again simply don't understand game development. Common in this thread. But this game is easily the best showcase of the PS5 tech with:

1. RT Reflections significantly improved specifically due to changes in skyscraper buildings with more reflective materials
2. Far more dense city
2. 3x faster traversal which compounds just how impressive the dense environments are
3. Seamless transitions where you can fast travel to ANY random section of the map, no designated FT locations as was the case in prior games
4. GI system providing day and night difference compared to SM 2018/MM
5. Facial Animation improvements

Maybe i'm new here but not in software industry.

They can do a lot more with the Ps5 hardware, and i know this because my work on software has taken me to chat with people that work in the game industry.

-One thing they could do is an implementation of RTGI o some sort of dynamic GI whit dynamic time of day. Why? Because these makes the work for artists much easier.

-Other thing is build a new mesh pipeline whit a much more optimized streaming system to maximize the data per frame flow. Why? Simply beacause these could make a giant leap on model quality, desing, implementation and render budgets.

These two are not implemented on Spiderman 2 and are only examples of the biggest changes they could make.

 

[SlimySnake]

The big difference is in the self shadowing of the characters. It’s often the difference of it looking realistic and it looking like a (last gen) game.
The environments look surprisingly similar to me.

yeah, self shadowing on characters during dialogue scenes sticks out but they couldve just added hero lighting on consoles a la horizon and starfield to fix that.

still, just not a big enough difference for me. the lighting is virtually the same just a bit more accurate, the volumetric effects are the same, even the reflections looked virtually the same in the opening scene but they probably worked to get that particular reflection right on consoles.

I think the more confined DLC will show that RT mostly works when dynamic elements are added into play, and the devs are still pretty good at baking in lighting, shadows and reflections.

I would like to see Alan Wake 2 run without RT because that game is being designed around RT and would likely look like trash without it.

 

[Luipadre]

yeah, self shadowing on characters during dialogue scenes sticks out but they couldve just added hero lighting on consoles a la horizon and starfield to fix that.

still, just not a big enough difference for me. the lighting is virtually the same just a bit more accurate, the volumetric effects are the same, even the reflections looked virtually the same in the opening scene but they probably worked to get that particular reflection right on consoles.

I think the more confined DLC will show that RT mostly works when dynamic elements are added into play, and the devs are still pretty good at baking in lighting, shadows and reflections.

I would like to see Alan Wake 2 run without RT because that game is being designed around RT and would likely look like trash without it.

Wouldnt surprise me if its only launching with 30 fps mode on console and tbh i dont mind. AW2 is a slow paced game i will play it in RT mode anyways. Gimme the best visuals possible on console in that game

 

[SlimySnake]

Wouldnt surprise me if its only launching with 30 fps mode on console and tbh i dont mind. AW2 is a slow paced game i will play it in RT mode anyways. Gimme the best visuals possible on console in that game

Honestly, and this might ruffle some feathers but fuck it yolo, but Alan Wake looks better than Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty based on actual gameplay i saw in the gamepot review. Which btw was in overdrive mode and cherrypicked by CD Project who didnt allow reviewers to use their own footage.

Way better lighting and overall visual fidelity. Expected since its a next gen only linear title, but good to finally see games like horizon and cyberpunk being topped.

 

[ChiefDada]

Wait, so PS5 version is better? I haven’t seen the clip yet.

Absolutely not. PC is better. "Glowing" is not good in this context

They can do a lot more with the Ps5 hardware, and i know this because my work on software has taken me to chat with people that work in the game industry.

-One thing they could do is an implementation of RTGI o some sort of dynamic GI whit dynamic time of day. Why? Because these makes the work for artists much easier.

You are suggesting a pipeline benefit not a boost to graphical fidelity with a proposed switch to RTGI. Do you agree that the baked GI shown in SM2 is a significant step above SM 2018/MM?

And the idea of "making artist life easier" is an assumption you have yet to support. The benefit of large studios with tons of talented artists is that they have the resources to make a baked GI solution very convincing. Furthermore, Insomniac's PBR and lighting workflow/pipeline is uber efficient as communicated in their GDC talk (see link below). Also, It's not as if the GI solution isn't physics and RT based, because it is via offline rendering and loaded in as scene data. If the style of game doesn't require RTGI, there is no need to waste compute/bandwidth for the sake of checking a marketing box.

Recalibrating Our Limits: Lighting on 'Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart'

The Insomniac Games lighting team was able to deliver on the promise of motion picture quality visuals and utilize lighting as a powerful artistic element. This talk will cover the setup, challenges, and lessons learned while paving the way for...

www.gdcvault.com

-Other thing is build a new mesh pipeline whit a much more optimized streaming system to maximize the data per frame flow. Why? Simply beacause these could make a giant leap on model quality, desing, implementation and render budgets.

Expand on this, please. What makes you think Insomniac hasn't optimized their streaming system from a data throughput perspective? One would think their demonstration of the absurd draw distance showcased in SM2 would suggest otherwise but please provide examples in image/video format of what Insomniac "could" have accomplished if they followed your recommendation. Ideally, this evidence will come in the form of an actual game (no demos or "Project" titles, we have enough of such garbage littering this thread as is) with similar open world properties. Surely as a software developer you understand this request.

 

[Xtib81]

As good as it looks, let's not forget that CP2077 is a 3-year-old game so it will inevitably show its age over time

 

[charles8771]

Lets see how switch 2 games graphical fidelity gonna compare, we all are old and experienced enough to know that believing in demos/trailers only leads to dissapointment, we got burned easily hundreds of times by now, at the least ;>

To not look far, we all remember totk trailer, gameplay at that and yet once year later DF checked how it really looks we got this timestamped to flat 20fps dips, and about image quality, again timestamped nuff said =D

Its look identical to BOTW which was developed for Wii U in mind


However as Wii U CPU was very ancient by 2012, clearly become problematic for many games like this

 

[SlimySnake]

some of the best games ever dropped frames to 20 fps. MGS1, GTA San Andreas, Shadow of the Collosus, even MGS4 had some big drops during the chase sequences.

Back in the day we just understood that the devs are pushing the system hard and accepted the lower framerate as a compromise. now we are all like Give me 60 fps or Give me Death. And devs comply by giving us 60 fps and last gen trash. Digital Foundry really fucked everything up, didnt they?

 

[Turk1993]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

We have seen the maxed out pc version (which has way higher settings than consoles) vs Overdrive mode, im sure there will be huge differences like the base game. But it looks good on console they did a great job.

And even in that video there where pretty big differences.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

We have seen the maxed out pc version (which has way higher settings than consoles) vs Overdrive mode, im sure there will be huge differences like the base game. But it looks good on console they did a great job.

And even in that video there where pretty big differences.

Yea especially that last image: it’s like the characters and vehicle are stickers in the PS5 footage, but in Overdrive they belong in the scene.

 

[Hugare]

We have seen the maxed out pc version (which has way higher settings than consoles) vs Overdrive mode, im sure there will be huge differences like the base game. But it looks good on console they did a great job.

And even in that video there where pretty big differences.

Yeah, difference is huge

But when you are playing, most of the time you dont see those stuff. Only when you put them side by side you go WOW

I think some scenes on PC with Overdrive even look worse (despite being correctly lit), 'cause they werent designed with Overdrive in mind, so it becomes too dark and you loose character detail on that scene, for example

Something that they probably corrected in Phantom Liberty, since they have developed the expansion with Overdrive in mind

 

[PeteBull]

some of the best games ever dropped frames to 20 fps. MGS1, GTA San Andreas, Shadow of the Collosus, even MGS4 had some big drops during the chase sequences.

Back in the day we just understood that the devs are pushing the system hard and accepted the lower framerate as a compromise. now we are all like Give me 60 fps or Give me Death. And devs comply by giving us 60 fps and last gen trash. Digital Foundry really fucked everything up, didnt they?

We loved those games, but nowadays 60fps is more and more important, for same reason resolution is less and less important, jump to hd, then to full hd were huge, but full hd to 1440p(or some similar resolutions, including dlss/fsr/checerkboarding methods) is much smaller, and from that to true native 4k is even smaller while consuming huge amount of gpu resources.

Back in the late 90s here in europe we played gran turismo in pal version, 25fps with big black bars, and thought it looked smooth and almost photorealistic, which obviously isnt the case

Difference 30 vs 60fps will feel always crazy big, hell 30 vs 40 feels substantial already and thats half way to 60 frametime wise.

Ofc there are some genres where 30fps will be fine, think turn based games, some point and click games, adventure games(not action-adventure ones, here 60 helps) basically everything where quick reaction time isnt required.

U can see how good botw zelda looks/feels in full native 4k60 on an emulator, gimped hardware, which switch is, coz of its portability(and very likely switch 2 gonna be too) will always make sure devs cant put their true creative vision into the open.


Btw, slimy, u mentioned urself u play starfield on pc, why not xsx? Coz its 30fps( on top of reduced settings) simply makes it way less enyjoable to play?

 

[SlimySnake]

Btw, slimy, u mentioned urself u play starfield on pc, why not xsx? Coz its 30fps( on top of reduced settings) simply makes it way less enyjoable to play?

Well, Im the wrong guy to ask because I played Spiderman Miles, Ratchet, and Horizon FW in the 30 fps modes on PS5. ;p I was not about to sacrifice the visual fidelity after spending $500 on a brand new console.

But yes, 60 fps is undeniably better and one of the biggest reasons why i spend thousands of dollars on PCs every few years is to be able to play everything maxed out 60 fps. But then again, ive been doing that since 2003 when i built my first PC for Half Life 2. I prefer 60 fps and better graphics. Hands down.

But i honestly dont mind 30 fps. Especially when I know that if i switch to 60 fps and back, it will ruin my ability to go back to 30 fps. Play 30 fps for 15 minutes and your eyes will adjust anyway. I actually was playing spiderman the other day to take some comparison shots and took me a while to realize that I wasnt playing on 40 fps mode like i usually do. Even 30 fps felt smooth.

I honestly dont mind 60 fps as long as devs leave it to PC or mid gen consoles. Or even 720p modes. Make the best game you can at 1440p 30 fps and then go ahead and make whatever 60 fps mode you want. take out RT, send resolution down to sub HD, use low res textures, couldnt care less. Just give me a high fidelity game as base and i can always run it at 60 fps on a $2000 pc. Actually, $1000 nowadays to double the console framerate.

 

[SlimySnake]

Just read the leaked FF7 Rebirth preview, and while they let you have all 5 characters roam around exploring with you, only 3 actually join you in battle. But the rest just sit on the sidelines watching you fight a bunch of enemies. Just like the previous game. Maybe 1 more if they are not counting Cloud as a playable character.

These CPUs are like 8x more powerful than the jaguar CPUs, we should finally be getting big massive player battles with AI that can handle its own, but devs continue to handicap themselves. I dont care if its harder to design 5 player battles, but why make a next gen game if you are not going to utilize the hardware?

 

[Represent.]

CyberPunk lokos slightly better on PC, but hardly worth the extra hassle and money to get it looking like that. Which is why PC gaming simply isn't worth it. Unless a developer is pulling a CryTek with Crysis and making a LEGIT AAA PC Exclusive.

Added reflection here. Higher frame there. Yay.

How about you actually utilize the extra horsepower you're blessed with.

 

[charles8771]

We loved those games, but nowadays 60fps is more and more important, for same reason resolution is less and less important, jump to hd, then to full hd were huge, but full hd to 1440p(or some similar resolutions, including dlss/fsr/checerkboarding methods) is much smaller, and from that to true native 4k is even smaller while consuming huge amount of gpu resources.

Back in the late 90s here in europe we played gran turismo in pal version, 25fps with big black bars, and thought it looked smooth and almost photorealistic, which obviously isnt the case

Difference 30 vs 60fps will feel always crazy big, hell 30 vs 40 feels substantial already and thats half way to 60 frametime wise.

Ofc there are some genres where 30fps will be fine, think turn based games, some point and click games, adventure games(not action-adventure ones, here 60 helps) basically everything where quick reaction time isnt required.

U can see how good botw zelda looks/feels in full native 4k60 on an emulator, gimped hardware, which switch is, coz of its portability(and very likely switch 2 gonna be too) will always make sure devs cant put their true creative vision into the open.


Btw, slimy, u mentioned urself u play starfield on pc, why not xsx? Coz its 30fps( on top of reduced settings) simply makes it way less enyjoable to play?

There are 60fps on 6th gen, nothing new

Is it safe to say that, so far, the PS2 has the most amount of games running @ 60fps?

..especially when compare to other consoles? I mean the PS2 has so many games running at 60fps that it is difficult to list all of them... Jak series Ratchet&Clank series Sly Cooper series Devil May Cry series Onimusha series God of War series Ace Combat series Gran Turismo series...

forum.beyond3d.com

Don't think that average PS2 game ran like GTA San Andreas, Metal Gear Solid 3
Games that has 60fps on 7th gen were CODs with a resolution of 1024x600p

However there were games on PS2 that ran at 512x448i like Need for Speed, God of War in order to help with perfomance
While N64 with expansion pak can run games at 480i(despite running with lower framerates)

 

[Represent.]

Just read the leaked FF7 Rebirth preview, and while they let you have all 5 characters roam around exploring with you, only 3 actually join you in battle. But the rest just sit on the sidelines watching you fight a bunch of enemies. Just like the previous game. Maybe 1 more if they are not counting Cloud as a playable character.

These CPUs are like 8x more powerful than the jaguar CPUs, we should finally be getting big massive player battles with AI that can handle its own, but devs continue to handicap themselves. I dont care if its harder to design 5 player battles, but why make a next gen game if you are not going to utilize the hardware?

Which is why this game

Needs to be getting way WAY more talk in this thread that it is.

This is next level stuff we're seeing here. We have NEVER seen this much action on screen at such high levels of fidelity. Not even close

 

[PeteBull]

These CPUs are like 8x more powerful than the jaguar CPUs, we should finally be getting big massive player battles with AI that can handle its own, but devs continue to handicap themselves. I dont care if its harder to design 5 player battles, but why make a next gen game if you are not going to utilize the hardware?

Current gen console cpu's are roughly 3x faster vs jaguar ones, dunno how u counted 8x, but just check for example GoW:Ragnarok ultra perf mode(fps cap removed), its in 1440p and can dip under 80s in more intense scenarios
With ps5 gpu being 5,5x stronger dips under 80fps at 1440p can mean only one thing- big cpu bottleneck.

 

[SlimySnake]

Current gen console cpu's are roughly 3x faster vs jaguar ones, dunno how u counted 8x, but just check for example GoW:Ragnarok ultra perf mode(fps cap removed), its in 1440p and can dip under 80s in more intense scenarios
With ps5 gpu being 5,5x stronger dips under 80fps at 1440p can mean only one thing- big cpu bottleneck.

Richard from DF did a test back in the day when the specs were first announced. His CPU benchmarks showed a 7.6x boost going from a jaguar equivalent PC GPU to a zen 2 CPU with 8 cores 16 threads and a much higher clock.

GOW is not a great example of how powerful the CPU is since it was probably bottlenecked by the GPU here so its more of a GPU benchmark. The first game is very poorly optimized on PC CPUs since it runs most of its logic on 2 threads. Probably whats happening here.

 

[Turk1993]

CyberPunk lokos slightly better on PC

 

[Alex11]

Yeah, difference is huge

But when you are playing, most of the time you dont see those stuff. Only when you put them side by side you go WOW

I think some scenes on PC with Overdrive even look worse (despite being correctly lit), 'cause they werent designed with Overdrive in mind, so it becomes too dark and you loose character detail on that scene, for example

Something that they probably corrected in Phantom Liberty, since they have developed the expansion with Overdrive in mind

I don't know, I played it before and after and the soft and extra shadows, the bounce lighting, extra and clearer reflections and for me, it really feels a huge difference when playing with Overdrive.

But if we're saying that CP's Overdrive is hardly noticeable, then in other games some settings or graphical changes are even less noticeable, where there are some shadows here or there added or a bit of extra AO.

 

[Turk1993]

I don't know, I played it before and after and the soft and extra shadows, the bounce lighting, extra and clearer reflections and for me, it really feels a huge difference when playing with Overdrive.

But if we're saying that CP's Overdrive is hardly noticeable, then in other games some settings or graphical changes are even less noticeable, where there are some shadows here or there added or a bit of extra AO.

Yup, if these are "small" differences than there is nothing in current gen thats a upgrade compared to last gen.

 

[PeteBull]

Richard from DF did a test back in the day when the specs were first announced. His CPU benchmarks showed a 7.6x boost going from a jaguar equivalent PC GPU to a zen 2 CPU with 8 cores 16 threads and a much higher clock.

GOW is not a great example of how powerful the CPU is since it was probably bottlenecked by the GPU here so its more of a GPU benchmark. The first game is very poorly optimized on PC CPUs since it runs most of its logic on 2 threads. Probably whats happening here.

I remember the vid but pretty sure results were 3x faster there, and on top that zen2 cpu is heavily downclocked and with less cashe vs desktop r7 3700x

there u go

 

[SolidQ]

"small" differences

Premium graphic

 

[SlimySnake]

I remember the vid but pretty sure results were 3x faster there, and on top that zen2 cpu is heavily downclocked and with less cashe vs desktop r7 3700x

Here.

Clock for clock at 2.3GHz, Cinebench delivers a 2.24x improvement in single-thread erformance, and across four cores, it's a 3.4 times boost to performance compared to Jaguar. Factor in the mooted 3.2GHz frequency of Zen 2, and we're getting a 4.7 times improvement. Remember this is just one workload and limited one too, one that doesn't tap into the new architectural features of the Zen 2 core. Stacking up our projected octo-core Jaguar results against the 3700X with all cores and threads enabled and we retain the 4.7 times improvement to performance against our surrogate Xbox One X score, rising to 6.7 against our stand-in PlayStation 4. And just to stress again, this is an imperfect test - a very basic benchmark that just gives a small hint of the vast increase in performance we should get from the new consoles.

Full article: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2019-we-built-a-zen-2-navi-pc-to-next-gen-console-specs

 

[ChiefDada]

Yeah I really don't understand the downplaying of CP2077 AS IT RELATES TO LIGHTING. But what's even crazier are the people who acknowledge CP PT difference, but not the lighting difference between SM and SM2. Reeks of disingenuity.

 

[IDWhite]

You are suggesting a pipeline benefit not a boost to graphical fidelity with a proposed switch to RTGI.

It's not a pipeline benefit is a game changer to design and fidelity. If you don't see that is because you not understand what you are talking about. And please don't take my words as a personal attack. Not every body needs to Know these things.

Do you agree that the baked GI shown in SM2 is a significant step above SM 2018/MM?

It's better, not a significant setp above.

And the idea of "making artist life easier" is an assumption you have yet to support. The benefit of large studios with tons of talented artists is that they have the resources to make a baked GI solution very convincing. Furthermore, Insomniac's PBR and lighting workflow/pipeline is uber efficient as communicated in their GDC talk (see link below). Also, It's not as if the GI solution isn't physics and RT based, because it is via offline rendering and loaded in as scene data. If the style of game doesn't require RTGI, there is no need to waste compute/bandwidth for the sake of checking a marketing box.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Even with an army of talented artists adding ambient lights, hero lights... You couldn't light everything properly to look good or realistically accurate.

There's no need to check a box, it's a new way of doing things that weren't possible before.

4A Games: 'Thanks to the power of RTX technology we can simplify and improve upon techniques from previous generations. We can combine disparate rendering technologies into a single unified algorithm, which benefits from access to a wider range of scene information and greater physical accuracy. It enables the creation of more realistic and believable environments and will ultimately lead to shorter development times and grander, richer gaming experiences'.

4A games web taking about RT

Expand on this, please. What makes you think Insomniac hasn't optimized their streaming system from a data throughput perspective? One would think their demonstration of the absurd draw distance showcased in SM2 would suggest otherwise but please provide examples in image/video format of what Insomniac "could" have accomplished if they followed your recommendation. Ideally, this evidence will come in the form of an actual game (no demos or "Project" titles, we have enough of such garbage littering this thread as is) with similar open world properties. Surely as a software developer you understand this request.

I can't show you exactly why I know because I don't want to put myself or others in trouble. But I will say that if you have some knowledge of systems architecture, memory management and see devs presentations you could easily get enough info to reach the reason why i said that Ps5 streaming capabilities are not fully used jet.

One tidbit. Same engine, same game:




As you can see a 3.2 GB/s external SSD with no custom controller could move the game on gameplay the same as the 5.5 GB/s internal SSD using the dedicated controller.

Anyway i'm sure if i put you in front of the reason you won't believe me.

 

[Represent.]

Yes, slightly. At best it’s a few lighting differences and higher res. All the assets are the same. It’s the same damn game that looks a little better on PC.

I mean look above, people are posting side by sides of the most minuscule differences in the PC version because no one can even tell unless they are both side by side with specific time stamped screenshots.

We need another Crysis level PC AAA game that decimates everything else decisively

 

[SABRE220]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

While they did a good job with the ps5 version, there is a decent difference in bounce lighting and shadowing in areas, especially with character lighting and shadowing which makes the characters look very out of place in the surroundings almost glowing in areas meant to be dark. That being said overall I think it isnt a super in your face downgrade and the ps5 versions on the face of it looks quite respectable in comparison considering the sheer disparity in rt tech between the gpus.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Again, games are progressing totally inline with the progress you would expect to have had since the demo. there's no hidden power up that will unlock the hardwares true potential.

there is, ue has been said may eventually enable nanite for skeletal meshes allowing characters to have infinite geometric detail just like the environments.

 

[Turk1993]

Yes, slightly. At best it’s a few lighting differences and higher res. All the assets are the same. It’s the same damn game that looks a little better on PC.

We need another Crysis level PC AAA game that decimates everything else decisively

"slightly" "little better"

Yup, if these are "small" differences than there is nothing in current gen thats a upgrade compared to last gen.

 

[Lethal01]

Here are some gifs for both spiderman and project mugen. You guys decide which looks better.

Click to the right to see more gifs.

Mugen looks leagus better.

just not because of the graphics.

 

[charles8771]

Yes, slightly. At best it’s a few lighting differences and higher res. All the assets are the same. It’s the same damn game that looks a little better on PC.

I mean look above, people are posting side by sides of the most minuscule differences in the PC version because no one can even tell unless they are both side by side with specific time stamped screenshots.

We need another Crysis level PC AAA game that decimates everything else decisively

Crysis? It ran like shit in the highest end PC in 2007

In 2007, the biggest releases for consoles were Call of Duty 4, Halo 3, Assassin Creed 1, Uncharted Drake Fortune.

Of course those games didn't come close to Crysis, but its not a good idea to release a game that has very insane minimum requirements

 

[rofif]

Crysis? It ran like shit in the highest end PC in 2007

In 2007, the biggest releases for consoles were Call of Duty 4, Halo 3, Assassin Creed 1, Uncharted Drake Fortune.

Of course those games didn't come close to Crysis, but its not a good idea to release a game that has very insane minimum requirements

2007 was amazing. The Darkness became one of my fav games ever. And Timeshift was 10x better than crysis. I replayed it so much

 

[Turk1993]

Crysis? It ran like shit in the highest end PC in 2007

In 2007, the biggest releases for consoles were Call of Duty 4, Halo 3, Assassin Creed 1, Uncharted Drake Fortune.

Of course those games didn't come close to Crysis, but its not a good idea to release a game that has very insane minimum requirements

Yes, slightly. At best it’s a few lighting differences and higher res. All the assets are the same. It’s the same damn game that looks a little better on PC.

I mean look above, people are posting side by sides of the most minuscule differences in the PC version because no one can even tell unless they are both side by side with specific time stamped screenshots.

We need another Crysis level PC AAA game that decimates everything else decisively

Crysis what? This game crashes most GPU's lol. The way Represent tries to donwplay the PT in CP2077 smh.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

yeah, self shadowing on characters during dialogue scenes sticks out but they couldve just added hero lighting on consoles a la horizon and starfield to fix that.

still, just not a big enough difference for me. the lighting is virtually the same just a bit more accurate, the volumetric effects are the same, even the reflections looked virtually the same in the opening scene but they probably worked to get that particular reflection right on consoles.

I think the more confined DLC will show that RT mostly works when dynamic elements are added into play, and the devs are still pretty good at baking in lighting, shadows and reflections.

I would like to see Alan Wake 2 run without RT because that game is being designed around RT and would likely look like trash without it.

I'm bracing myself for Alan Wake 2 on console. It's going to look bad compared to PC and like Cyberpunks performance mode, the iq is gonna be trash.

 

[SlimySnake]

Crysis what? This game crashes most GPU's lol. The way Represent tries to donwplay the PT in CP2077 smh.

Seeing this graph is crazy because i was able to run this at a very playable 40 fps at 1440p dlss balanced. So 960p. On a 3080. Basically what i played control at in 2019 on my 2080.

This game is definitely the crysis of its era. I think crysis got that mystique because PC gamers looked at the lack of console ports and assumed consoles couldnt do it. I remember arguing with pc fans on gamespot back in the day and had a told you so moment when they finally ported it to consoles. But then they pointed to that one level that wasnt ported and took a victory lap anyway.

 

[Lethal01]

Just read the leaked FF7 Rebirth preview, and while they let you have all 5 characters roam around exploring with you, only 3 actually join you in battle. But the rest just sit on the sidelines watching you fight a bunch of enemies. Just like the previous game. Maybe 1 more if they are not counting Cloud as a playable character.

These CPUs are like 8x more powerful than the jaguar CPUs, we should finally be getting big massive player battles with AI that can handle its own, but devs continue to handicap themselves. I dont care if its harder to design 5 player battles, but why make a next gen game if you are not going to utilize the hardware?

I think 3 character balance is a good choice just from a gameplay flow perspective, it's the amount of characters i'd want to manage, maybe they can do 5 character battles but I wouldn't want that to be the area the decide to try to flex the technical power at the expense for making the game play differently. Hell maybe they could do 10 character battles, but that just sounds bad.

They should spend it on cloth simulation or something, or better yet better lighting since that the number one areas games are lacking.

I could be wrong though, I would need to try it, if it's revealed that there is a section with 5 man battles or they raise the number in part 3 and I love it then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong. Until then I don't want games becoming dynasty warriors just to show of their hardware, game design comes first.

 

[charles8771]

some of the best games ever dropped frames to 20 fps. MGS1, GTA San Andreas, Shadow of the Collosus, even MGS4 had some big drops during the chase sequences.

Back in the day we just understood that the devs are pushing the system hard and accepted the lower framerate as a compromise. now we are all like Give me 60 fps or Give me Death. And devs comply by giving us 60 fps and last gen trash. Digital Foundry really fucked everything up, didnt they?

Its not a good idea sacrifing perfomance, i heard people talking how games on PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64 has poor frame rates.

This was in 2006:

How come N64 games generally had poor framerates?

was it due to the microcode stupidity of Nintendo, the hardware itself, or something else?

forum.beyond3d.com

About PS3:

Were PS3 games always so slow and jaggy?

Were PS3 games always so slow and jaggy, or am I just spoiled by remasters? Going back to the PS3 for the first time properly since early 2014, goddamn a lot of these games are slow (poor frame rates) jaggy, and look awful. To name the ones I've been back to Infamous (Goddamn I remembered this...

www.resetera.com

As PS3 had an overly complex CPU, GPU bottlenecking the Cell CPU, that how games ran like crap.
Poor frame rates happen due for bottlenecks like high latency of RAM on Nintendo 64.

 

[alloush]

CyberPunk lokos slightly better on PC, but hardly worth the extra hassle and money to get it looking like that. Which is why PC gaming simply isn't worth it. Unless a developer is pulling a CryTek with Crysis and making a LEGIT AAA PC Exclusive.

Added reflection here. Higher frame there. Yay.

How about you actually utilize the extra horsepower you're blessed with.

Watch out the pc nerds will come for your head cuz their 3 thousand dollar PCs need a microscope for them to see the minimal gains they have on them $500 consoles.

 

[Turk1993]

Watch out the pc nerds will come for your head cuz their 3 thousand dollar PCs need a microscope for them to see the minimal gains they have on them $500 consoles.