100 fucking percent
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I hope no devs are looking at this thread.
Last thing I want is for all video games characters to look the same technically.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
by nextgen you mean this gen or ps6.....?
Last thing you want is realism? you're in the wrong thread buddy!
This was done from a dude's house probably, in minimal time, you can have a billion different looking characters, this was done quickly and by one person if I aint mistaken.
Lol was gonna ask the same
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I run native 4k on my 3080. Fuck dlss.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah but native doesn't give you almost 120 frames.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I hoped it was this gen, but it seems like it's gonna ps6 material.
Or in some game at the end of the gen at best.
Why? I don’t have a rig so I am too ignorant on this but I thought dlss offers almost the same graphical fidelity and crisp as native?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It does. DLSS actually oftentimes looks better than native. And DLAA pretty much always looks better than native.
After playing an hour of AVATAR in unobtainium mode (I'm still around the first section after exiting the building). It looks absolutely GREAT and obviously 1A1B best looking game ever. But the interior buildings looked absolutely horrible. Reminded me of The Division 1 interiors. This is also backed up by the fade to black cutscene where in the cutscene it looks okay then it fades to black and the interior looks like a PS4/XO game.
This means the downgrade for Star Wars Outlaw will be BIBLICAL as they also use the same fade to black from cut-scene. This must be an engine limitation. The biggest downgrade might come from the cutscene itself. The cloths and skin shading in AVATAR is typical The division/snowdrop. Where every cloth share the exact same normal map and material. This is quite different from what they showed in the SWO demo where they finally have a REAL cloth rendering system. The same is the case for skin and eye rendering in the demo they showed off. All of that is horrible in AVATAR. Lastly the amount of volumetric fog/effects will take a HUGE hit. Distant shadowing, etc.
TLDR: SWO (coming out in 2025 not 2024 as they're clearly lying) downgrade will be BIBLICAL!
This means the downgrade for Star Wars Outlaw will be BIBLICAL as they also use the same fade to black from cut-scene. This must be an engine limitation. The biggest downgrade might come from the cutscene itself. The cloths and skin shading in AVATAR is typical The division/snowdrop. Where every cloth share the exact same normal map and material. This is quite different from what they showed in the SWO demo where they finally have a REAL cloth rendering system. The same is the case for skin and eye rendering in the demo they showed off. All of that is horrible in AVATAR. Lastly the amount of volumetric fog/effects will take a HUGE hit. Distant shadowing, etc.
TLDR: SWO (coming out in 2025 not 2024 as they're clearly lying) downgrade will be BIBLICAL!
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Senua
Gold Member
The taa in RDR2 is garbage. So blurry
And about the whole GTA 6 talk as I haven't responded to the trailer.
All I know is that GTA 5 was downgraded, RDR 2 were downgraded.
So it will also be downgraded. But we are not talking Ubisoft level downgrade (Thank goodness!).
Minor to medium downgrades across the board, but enough to notice when comparing side by side.
The biggest downgrade will come in the character rendering in the open world (beaches, etc) and the character rendering, lighting and shadowing in the interior sections (clubs).
Only with the PC release 2 years later did we get something that came close to matching the trailer.
All I know is that GTA 5 was downgraded, RDR 2 were downgraded.
So it will also be downgraded. But we are not talking Ubisoft level downgrade (Thank goodness!).
Minor to medium downgrades across the board, but enough to notice when comparing side by side.
The biggest downgrade will come in the character rendering in the open world (beaches, etc) and the character rendering, lighting and shadowing in the interior sections (clubs).
Only with the PC release 2 years later did we get something that came close to matching the trailer.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Hm. That comparison shows as many upgrades as downgrades and the latter isn’t really that clear due to time of day differences.
It looks like the biggest thing is they removed the aggressive infamous PS360 Gen golden god rays that everyone and their mother was doing back then. Which could also be more of an artistic choice than a technical one. Just my 2 cents.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It does but not in this game.
see above. RDR2's dlss implementation is not good. looks worse than native.
DLSS is worse. This was a big thing back in the day. Eventually people settled on TAA native if your gpu could handle it. DLSS implementation in rdr2 had way too many issues.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
You can very easily add the newest version of DLSS to RDR2. Literally just replace a single file
Msamy
Member
I agree with you , Actually rockstar one of few companies that their released games build looks better than their trailers
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
But do we know if the latest dlss files even fix the issues with the foliage? Also gymwolf can’t replace a file to save his life. I went through this with him back when starfield came out. He’s probably using the old dlss file.
I went back and watched all the trailers recently. Gta reveal trailer has the same issues with shimmering the final game did. It was fixed by the time the ps4 version came out. Rdr2 looked better on my x1x at native 4k. The same will happen if the ps5 pro comes out before gta6. It will look better than this trailer.
The trailer is using cinematic quality lighting and character models so obviously there will be some downgrades but the cutscenes in the game will look just as good.
Balducci30
Member
Don’t think this is realtime? He does a lot of cinematics in UE5.
Either way, hopefully that’s the baseline for the next generation. It certainly isn’t for this one, maybe we’ll get close at the end of the gen.
Masterofchapter
Banned
GymWolf
Gold Member
what version of dlss should i download? latest one or there is a best\more stable version?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Figured I'll ask this in here since the rest of the forum acts like fucking idiots whenever ND is involved. Bunch of Abby sex scene photos and Cuckmann posts, followed by tired remake/remaster jokes. Ridiculous.
With Factions 2 cancelled (delayed indefinitely), What do you guys wanna see from Naughty Dog next?
It's confirmed they're working on 2 brand new single player games, both of which they call ambitious. Which gets me hyped as fuck.
I'm thinking New IP and TLOU 3.
I'm expecting both to be among the best looking games of the gen, true wow moments - especially TLOU 3.
This gets me excited also - I wanna see how they incorporate what they learned into these 2 new games.
I think their non TLOU game will be less cutscene heavy, as Neil has hinted at being inspired by Elden Ring's more minimalistic way of story telling.
But fuck. Im kinda salivating at how good a new Uncharted would look. Naughty Dog setpieces typically put the rest of the industry to shame.
Give me an Extraction 2 style one take set piece.
With Factions 2 cancelled (delayed indefinitely), What do you guys wanna see from Naughty Dog next?
It's confirmed they're working on 2 brand new single player games, both of which they call ambitious. Which gets me hyped as fuck.
I'm thinking New IP and TLOU 3.
I'm expecting both to be among the best looking games of the gen, true wow moments - especially TLOU 3.
This gets me excited also - I wanna see how they incorporate what they learned into these 2 new games.
I think their non TLOU game will be less cutscene heavy, as Neil has hinted at being inspired by Elden Ring's more minimalistic way of story telling.
If they really do go less cutscene heavy, it could lead to even more detailed environments since they'll be spending more time on that hypothetically
But fuck. Im kinda salivating at how good a new Uncharted would look. Naughty Dog setpieces typically put the rest of the industry to shame.
Give me an Extraction 2 style one take set piece.
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This is my fear. It is Ubisoft.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
This 16 second clip is music to my fucking ears. Clipped and time stamped.
Hearing someone in the mainstream gaming media on a big platform say what I've been saying for 5 years now is like magic.
Deliver the game how its meant to be played, stop catering to these cheap fuck console gamers who want the world and refuse to pay for it.
All that ridiculous time optimizing your game to have 20 different modes could be used to polish your game. (Hi Insomniac)
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Figured I'll ask this in here since the rest of the forum acts like fucking idiots whenever ND is involved. Bunch of Abby sex scene photos and Cuckmann posts, followed by tired remake/remaster jokes. Ridiculous.
With Factions 2 cancelled (delayed indefinitely), What do you guys wanna see from Naughty Dog next?
It's confirmed they're working on 2 brand new single player games, both of which they call ambitious. Which gets me hyped as fuck.
I'm thinking New IP and TLOU 3.
I'm expecting both to be among the best looking games of the gen, true wow moments - especially TLOU 3.
This gets me excited also - I wanna see how they incorporate what they learned into these 2 new games.
I think their non TLOU game will be less cutscene heavy, as Neil has hinted at being inspired by Elden Ring's more minimalistic way of story telling.
If they really do go less cutscene heavy, it could lead to even more detailed environments since they'll be spending more time on that hypothetically
But fuck. Im kinda salivating at how good a new Uncharted would look. Naughty Dog setpieces typically put the rest of the industry to shame.
Give me an Extraction 2 style one take set piece.
I'm have burnout from TLOU aesthetics/art style. I agree with you I want to see Uncharted's beautiful art direction leveraged on the PS5. It will be insane looking. It's a real shame ND spent so much time and resources on a failed GAAS title. I owe some of you an apology as I remember claiming the GAAS ambitions wouldn't affect their single party pipeline. Boy was I wrong. Imagine what we could have received from them by now.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol you guys didnt learn anything from Avatar? For months now, people refused to believe the gifs i posted constantly saying it will be downgraded bcuz ubisoft. Turns out, it looks even better on PC, and even the E3 PS5 gameplay footage which ran at 1440p internal actually goes upto 1800p according to DF. thats a 40% increase in pixels from the E3 demo. if anything, they have a lot more room to target even better visuals.
Star Wars is a newer game, of course its going to have newer tech you dont see in Avatar. Snowdrop engine is also being used by the next far cry. i can promise you, they wont be using the avatar foliage even if its built on the same engine.
Whats the most impressive thing about Snowdrop is how well it is optimized. I fucking hate turning on RT in games and seeing by framerate tank by half, run out of vram causing framerates to drop to 2 fps, cause CPU related stutters because the cpu now has to do RT as well as ingame tasks, so i literally dont even bother despite owning an nvidia card. Then Avatar comes out running at 1800p on consoles with RTGI and RT reflections, something litearlly no other game has done, and on my PC runs perfectly fine at 4k 60 dlss quality while looking like a true next gen game, not like those half assed last gen games with rt slapped on top.
Point is that not only do they have room on the GPU side but their cpu optimization is fantastic as well which will help with the big city/town NPCs AI routines that will need a powerful CPU. These guys have proven themselves. They have the best looking game out there and unlike AC unity, it runs great at launch.
Star Wars will be fine. If it does get downgraded, it will be minimal and it might even see improvements in other areas.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think we were discussing this earlier this week. Someone said that the devs need to ship the game on the mode they actually playtest on. When the director sits down and plays the daily or weekly build, is he playing the 30 fps mode or the 60 fps mode? is he playing on PC? Because a lot of games ship with poor 30 fps modes whereas sony games feel perfectly playable at 30 fps.
HFW was the first time where i was like the 30 fps mode feels odd. It had this insane flickering and sharpness to it that really hurt my eyes. you have to wonder if the devs just played the 60 fps mode and designed everything around it leaving the 30 fps mode for the worse. Now, they did patch it and made 30 fps mode playable but if rockstar designers are playing at 30 fps, they will work on making it more responsive at 30 fps. demon souls remake is practically unplayable at 30 fps because they designed it as a 60 fps game too.
rhodesianshepard
Banned
TLOU part 2 was released a little over 3 years ago. Naughty Dog, even with no gaas development, would not have released anything by now
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Ok fine. Uncharted 4 to TLOU2 was 4 years. We would have been gearing up for a major ND release in this coming Summer 2024 and seen gameplay running on PS5 by now.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
While i admire you for admitting you were wrong about the gaas focus not hurting single player games, I think the primary reason why we havent seen an ND game is Neil himself. Dude was out there making tv shows for 2 years. I read an article that specifically mentioned how he was called back to the studio mid season because the studio was aimless without him. This was in late 2021 or 2022. so right there, 1.5-2 years wasted while he chased his hollywood ambitions.
they basically had nothing to work on after shipping tlou2 which is why they took a bigger interest in the remake which was being done at another studio. eventually taking it over because again, they had nothing to work on. this is on studio heads Evan Wells, Neil and first party boss herman who shouldve immediately greenlit their next game or had something lined up for them.
He didnt. they winged it and now they are a former shell of themselves releasing dated remakes, cancelling games altogether and being completely MIA from the award circuit. in comparison, insomniac has had 2 games nominated for goty in the last 3 years.
Lastly, and this will bug you more than anything else, but bend were working on a Uncharted spinoff according to jason. they had spent well over a year on it. they had hired hollywood writers. However, naughty dog kept interfering with their project constantly changing things, constantly trying to get involved in the story and design process because again, they had nothing to do after shipping tlou2 and just like they did with the remake were trying to finagle themselves into Bend's uncharted spinoff. Eventually just like with the VSG remake when the studios heads left in protest due to ND's meddling, those hollywood writers left Bend and Bend asked to be allowed to make their own IP.
So yeah, you wouldve gotten an Uncharted game on UE5 if Neil hadnt gone to hollywood.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
These laminal spaces games can look pretty amazing.
It's all the VHS filters tricks and all that stuff. Low fidelity makes it look more realistic.
This one (dreamcore) seems to be using either RT or (more likely) very nicely baked cube maps. Everything is perfect.
and yes. The filters are this heavy. This is at 4k
It's all the VHS filters tricks and all that stuff. Low fidelity makes it look more realistic.
This one (dreamcore) seems to be using either RT or (more likely) very nicely baked cube maps. Everything is perfect.
and yes. The filters are this heavy. This is at 4k
TheRedRiders
Member
Looks like Mesh and Primitive Shaders are being leveraged on the new Avatar game, funnily enough they're being used on the PS5 and Series X thanks to next-gen exclusivity but not on PC because of hardware variability. Regardless, it's great to see more studios adopting this next-gen feature.
www.eurogamer.net
Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - the big developer tech interview
Digital Foundry's Alex Battaglia interviews Massive's Nikolay Stefanov and Oleksandr Koshlo about Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora and the Snowdrop engine.
www.eurogamer.net
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lots of very interesting rt details in this Alex interview with the Massive devs. They only switched to rt midway through the game, so around 2020. Crazy to me that other first party studios didnt do this.
They also use RT for objects that their screenspace solution doesnt capture. So its almost like a hybrid solution. Its kind of ingenious because it helps save on performance while also offering all the benefits of rtgi and local shadows.
They also said they are using mesh and primitive shaders on consoles, but not on PC. that explains the fantastic performance on consoles.
www.eurogamer.net
I wouldnt be surprised if Rockstar is using similar techniques. Good studios will always find ways to utilize the power hidden in these consoles more efficiently. I have no concerns about gta and star wars getting seeing massive downgrades.
They also use RT for objects that their screenspace solution doesnt capture. So its almost like a hybrid solution. Its kind of ingenious because it helps save on performance while also offering all the benefits of rtgi and local shadows.
They also said they are using mesh and primitive shaders on consoles, but not on PC. that explains the fantastic performance on consoles.
Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - the big developer tech interview
Digital Foundry's Alex Battaglia interviews Massive's Nikolay Stefanov and Oleksandr Koshlo about Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora and the Snowdrop engine.
www.eurogamer.net
I wouldnt be surprised if Rockstar is using similar techniques. Good studios will always find ways to utilize the power hidden in these consoles more efficiently. I have no concerns about gta and star wars getting seeing massive downgrades.
rhodesianshepard
Banned
For a new IP, which is what is reported, that should take 5 years between developments imo. But I'm in the minority, I don't believe Factions drastically affected Naughty Dog's next release. They have two full teams. I think their new IP has been in full development since 2020. TLOU3 is what got put on the back burner with Factions. I expect a Naughty Dog release in 2025
Its still Ubisoft man. I dont care if they didnt downgrade "1" game. They have to put in more work to reverse there dogshit rep than just 1 release.
vivftp
Member
We know precisely what occurred there. With TLOU Part 2, it was an all hands on deck situation and ND was not able to do their normal pre-production on their next project ahead of time. Around mid-2020 is when they began concepting/pre-production of their next big single player game. We also got a tweet from a ND dev earlier this year that helped put average AAA dev time into perspective with pre-production taking 2-3 years and full production taking 2 years on average.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with the existence of TLOU Online, the next big single player game would still have taken just as long because they weren't able to start pre-production until mid-2020.
On that note, the existence of those remasters, remakes and TLOU Online helped them to retain talent (rather than doing mass layoffs after a project, which is what they've done in the past), allowed them to get their tech updated for the current gen and train their studio on developing for the current gen. The vast majority of those people wouldn't have been needed while they were doing pre-production on the next big title, so the existence of TLOU Online, the remasters and remakes helped speed things along to ensure easier development for their next big game when it did enter full production.
We also know they were working with Bend up until early 2021 on a new Uncharted, but Bend then asked to do their own thing. It's entirely possible the new Uncharted could be a game they brought in-house, or are working with another studio on. Either way, my point is that you wouldn't get a new ND single player game any sooner if TLOU Online hadn't existed. If anything it might have taken longer if they had to re-hire/train staff and get their engine up to date for the current gen all while trying to develop the new game.
I mean it still got a big downgrade. So most of the criticism is still warranted.
While the object density is the same. The downgrade was in the lighting and shadowing, object quality and material quality.
As you can see, each of the actual plants/object had very thick and very rich triangle count. They look fuller. The material quality was also very high.
Heck I would take the lighting and shadowing downgrade (as what its downgraded to is still really really good) if they kept the same triangle counts and material quality on the objects. Or maybe its the other way around, idk.
I used to think that no one would catch up to epic, now I actually believe that most SOTA studios have/will.
Because when you look at performance (atleast for right now) it blows UE5 away.
In regards to object density, I would put UE5 at 10 and Snowdrops' Avatar at 9.
In regards to lighting/shadowing, UE5 has a upper hand at 9 while Avatar is at 7.
Then finally at Object Quality, I would put Avatar at 8 while UE5 is at 11 (yes breaking the scale!)
But here is where snowdrop destroys UE5 and that's when it comes to performance, UE5 is like at a 3-4 while Avatar is at a 9.
Snowdrop wins honestly
So others like Massive, Rockstar and Remedy have some what caught up to UE5.
But in the reveal AVATER trailer they showcased something that was:
Lighting & Shadowing - 10
Object Quality - 10
in the SOW trailer they showcased something even better with better character rendering, vfx and material rendering including 10 lighting/shadow and 10 object quality. So you are telling me that there will be minor downgrades (1 point?) Because 2 or more points is a major downgrade..
But yeah if SOW gets a minor/small downgrade across the board then i'm all for it.
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Alex11
Member
Clear downgrade, especially in sky and cloud rendering. But yeah, trailers are just that, trailers.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, that was the e3 2021 trailer. I was talking about the downgrades from the PS5 gameplay trailer. There are none if any. We all knew that the game engine or whatever bullshit they were labeling it was downgraded, but when we see gameplay footage like we did for Avatar at this years E3 and Star Wars, it is not going to get any major downgrades. Thats what was so frustrating to me when everyone kept insisting it would get a further downgrade from THIS years E3. They showed the game running on PS5 with all its FSR artifacts, if it was going to get downgraded, they wouldnt have done that. Star wars was likely shown running on PC so the consoles versions will likely get some downgrades, but I have been looking at PS5 footage of this game and it looks just as good as it does on my PC.
I have played several UE5 games and im not impressed. Thought robocop would blow me away and it didnt. Immortals looked even worse. Callisto, a freaking UE4 game impressed me more. I will need to see some UE5 games first, but I think UE5 is very single threaded and the fact that none of the games are using hardware Lumen/RT means they are not ready for big time on consoles. I am willing to wait till Tomb Raider and Witcher 4 come out, but these guys have been working on those games for 3 years on UE5 and still nothing to show? Not a good look.
Hellblade 2 looks stunning but its not using Lumen or Nanite from what i can tell. None of the PR has mentioned it. NT might just be using baked lighting like Callisto did.
KXVXII9X
Member
Straight up this was the second best looking game there after Hellblade 2 to me. Not counting the Space Marine 2 ad
Artstyle immaculate, but it doesnt just depend on that. Like say, a Zelda game.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Fuck uncharted 5, i don't wanna play as nate's bisexuals daughter or renounce to the level of violence of tlou, gimme tlou3.
I hate that they are doing 2 new games, the team should work entirely on the next big thing, they don't have 2000 devs like ubisoft, they are a relatively small team for AAAA games.
I hate that they are doing 2 new games, the team should work entirely on the next big thing, they don't have 2000 devs like ubisoft, they are a relatively small team for AAAA games.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Absofuckingabsolutely!
Sure, there can be vrr unlocked mode to be ready for next consoles and pro consoles but that’s it.
I don’t want to make concessions.
As it is now, I am choosing 40fps120 modes most often so it is hypocritical but it is what it is. There are simply too many modes with too many drawbacks. If it’s only resolution then maybe but if all of sudden performance mode got less grass, shadows and resolution, then what fake choice is that?
And often this gen 30fps modes are super laggy and underwhelming. Bloodborne while not most stable 30fps feels more responsive than most 30fps games this gen. So if 30fps sucks this gen and 60 is low fidelity… what’s the choice.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
I'm afraid of HELLBLADE 2 being the maximum graphics but only in equally linear games...
I mean, if Last of Us 3 be more open, we'll never see Hellblade 2 level graphics...
Does anyone agree?
Lol this guy. But to answer your question...
GymWolf
Gold Member
You think she is gonna be non-binary instead?
TheRedRiders
Member
Jokes and political opinions aside - I have zero interest in an Uncharted game with Nate's daughter - it almost, but not quite stupid as the idea of a God of War game centered around Atreus.
I think a large part of what made Uncharted so special, and unique from games like Tomb Raider was Nate's wit and personality, and his chemistry with other characters like Sullivan, Chloe and Elena. Other than Nate, I wouldn't mind playing as a young Sullivan in a prequel.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I just don't give a fuck about uncharted in general and i don't care in general for ND stories and characters.
I just vastly prefer the more slow, heavy, violent gameplay of tlou brand.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
funny you say that because Lara is bisexual in the next tomb raider game. it will have both gay and straight romances.
It should work. The teams just need to get bigger and have better management. They did uncharted 3 and TLOU1 at the same time and had TLOu1 out just a year and a half after uncharted 3. What fucked them over was the left behind DLC which conflicted with Amy's plans to take Uncharted 4 into full production. That caused rifts and then neil forced her out. Its office politics at its worst.
Two teams can work if devs are smart about it. Fromsoft have been a two team studio going back to dark souls2/bloodborne. their sekiro team just released armored core a year and a half after the other team shipped elden rings. massive is also a 2 team studio. Though they are almost twice the size of ND so yes, ND does need to get bigger.
If you dont have two teams, you end up with people having nothing to do after shipping the game just like ND after TLOU2. They started fucking around with other studios remakes, spinoffs and wasting years on multiplayer projects instead of having something ready to go into full production immediately like they did back when uncharted 3 released and TLOU1 was ready for full production.