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[SlimySnake]

I love the world, structures and lighting in Cyberpunk, from a wide panoramic view of the city to a simple back alley, there is great work behind it.

It's a shame that I feel the complete opposite of the NPC's, they seem to me to be of a low level and I feel that they are totally out of place.

lol yes. I have just one way of playing it. Driving around in third person taking in the city. As soon as i get out of the car, the illusion breaks with some of the nastiest looking character models and jankiest of animations.

With aw2 I had legit complaints. It was just pc game with low settings on console. No magic sauce or optimisation.
I have done cool shots. Can post later

AW2 uses primitive shaders on the ps5. thats more magic sauce than any first party has used. they just used the wrong upscaling technique.

the difference between pc ports and console games comes down to some minor god rays and AO. nowadays u get ray traced shadows, gi and reflections on console versions anyway. With starfield, the biggest differences turned out to be AO and shadows. the console versions had everything else, but the damn shadows ruined the image. i think the same will happen here.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Some of the best looking games ever made, at the cutting edge of graphics.

GAF: “looks like trash”

And people wonder why games are so expensive to make nowadays. Even stuff that looks as incredible as FF7 Rebirth gets criticised.

Because games can look much better, like the Matrix Awakens.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

This looks so good, the hair physics, animation, motion blur. Add TLOU 2 style animations and muscle physics and it’s even more awesome.

 

[Balducci30]

Never. The talent is gone from the industry. Whats left are hacks and rookies who have other priorities.

I just watched Dune 2. Took them 2 years to make, and its packed with insane setpieces and big war scenes. Meanwhile FF7 is a ubisoft copy pasta that took 4 years to make. No different from sony copy pastas that take 5-6. Either the industry is a scam or there is simply a massive talent gap between the film industry and the game industry.

FF7 and Suicide Squad are two massive games from two of the biggest studios in the industry and they both failed to raise the bar. People will blame UE4 but i saw plenty of these UE4 demos back in the day. Problem is that devs didnt bother utilizing the hardware. SS targets 1440p 60 fps. FF7 native 4k 30 fps. same pixel budget. they wasted half of the GPU on rendering pixels or framerate instead of pushing visual fidelity or physics or well anything that takes us from PS3 era gameplay design.

Here is an indie dev doing things with animations no studio has done all gen.



At this point, its not the tech thats holding them back. its the talent. the ambition. the desire to be the best. all of that is lacking in the current crop of studios. An industry stuck in a state of arrested development. An industry of hacks.

Naughty dog and rockstar probably are still driven that way no?

Also how was Dune

 

[Balducci30]

These UE5 tech demos drive me nuts. When on earth are we getting this level of fidelity!? Ps6? PS6 pro?

This is insane - I doubt we’ll get visuals like it till the next generation unfortunately. Probably on a 4090 or something

 

[Lethal01]

Never. The talent is gone from the industry. Whats left are hacks and rookies who have other priorities.

I just watched Dune 2. Took them 2 years to make, and its packed with insane setpieces and big war scenes. Meanwhile FF7 is a ubisoft copy pasta that took 4 years to make. No different from sony copy pastas that take 5-6. Either the industry is a scam or there is simply a massive talent gap between the film industry and the game industry.

FF7 and Suicide Squad are two massive games from two of the biggest studios in the industry and they both failed to raise the bar. People will blame UE4 but i saw plenty of these UE4 demos back in the day. Problem is that devs didnt bother utilizing the hardware. SS targets 1440p 60 fps. FF7 native 4k 30 fps. same pixel budget. they wasted half of the GPU on rendering pixels or framerate instead of pushing visual fidelity or physics or well anything that takes us from PS3 era gameplay design.

Here is an indie dev doing things with animations no studio has done all gen.



At this point, its not the tech thats holding them back. its the talent. the ambition. the desire to be the best. all of that is lacking in the current crop of studios. An industry stuck in a state of arrested development. An industry of hacks.

Demo's are easy, every game you see come out is packed to the brim with people who have the level of talent as that demo's creator.

Budget, Deadlines, deals and the complications of actually coordinating hundreds of people making games to the scale of what audiences are expecting these days is the issue.
If studios were making 5 hour , pc only games taking place in grey boxes then sure, every person there could show of their fancy demo and look talented. But making actual games within the limitations and expectations of development always causes talent pulled from the film industry to look like everyone else. Sometimes companies get lucky and it all comes together into a game that looks amazing..

But have game developers work on something that basically just needs to be a movie set ala the matrix demo? and you see how talented everyone is.
But most games want games, not movies, and the big companies don't really cater to the exceptions.

You got the talent, the "desire to be the best", is replaced by the desire to make games that people actually want instead of a bunch of pretty hallways.

 

[SlimySnake]

Naughty dog and rockstar probably are still driven that way no?

Also how was Dune

Amazing. Everything you want a big budget scifi epic to be. Just an incredible audio visual tour de force.

 

[ckstine]

Amazing. Everything you want a big budget scifi epic to be. Just an incredible audio visual tour de force.

Denis has always been a talented director, 2049 was obviously great, so was sicario, but i got into him with Prisoners. Prisoners was a really spectacular movie and jackman was insane in that

 

[Zuzu]

I finished Demon's Souls Remastered for the first time last night. It kind of surprises me that few other games released in this generation have matched it's combined level of graphical fidelity, image quality and performance all in one package. So many other games compromise in one of those three areas, usually image quality or performance.

 

[SlimySnake]

I finished Demon's Souls Remastered for the first time last night. It kind of surprises me that few other games released in this generation have matched it's combined level of graphical fidelity, image quality and performance all in one package. So many other games compromise in one of those three areas, usually image quality or performance.

I’ve wondered this a lot over the last few months. Especially the fact that the 1440p 60 fps mode looks fantastic. No need for fsr. Why most other games don’t do is bizarre.

That said, it’s still a ps3 game at heart. The level design is just a bunch of tiny corridors which are way easier to light and render than the bigger games we get today.

 

[Zuzu]

I’ve wondered this a lot over the last few months. Especially the fact that the 1440p 60 fps mode looks fantastic. No need for fsr. Why most other games don’t do is bizarre.

That said, it’s still a ps3 game at heart. The level design is just a bunch of tiny corridors which are way easier to light and render than the bigger games we get today.

Yeah, I think it's level design must be allowing them to achieve the fidelity & performance that it has. Maybe as well, since the actual gameplay mechanics and design of the game was done already it allowed the developers to spend a lot more time on optimising and perfecting the visuals and performance.

I also like that it doesn't use FSR. There's no (or minimal) artifacting and grainess in the game. It's so refreshing and enjoyable to look at.

 

[SlimySnake]

Demo's are easy, every game you see come out is packed to the brim with people who have the level of talent as that demo's creator.

Budget, Deadlines, deals and the complications of actually coordinating hundreds of people making games to the scale of what audiences are expecting these days is the issue.
If studios were making 5 hour , pc only games taking place in grey boxes then sure, every person there could show of their fancy demo and look talented. But making actual games within the limitations and expectations of development always causes talent pulled from the film industry to look like everyone else. Sometimes companies get lucky and it all comes together into a game that looks amazing..

But have game developers work on something that basically just needs to be a movie set ala the matrix demo? and you see how talented everyone is.
But most games want games, not movies, and the big companies don't really cater to the exceptions.

You got the talent, the "desire to be the best", is replaced by the desire to make games that people actually want instead of a bunch of pretty hallways.

Game developers have always been able to do both. Make gamey games while pushing visuals. I’m not sure why big name devs like rocksteady and square enix have stagnated and are settling for less. SSM settled for less. Polyphony digital. Naughts Dog and even GG shouldn’t have settled for making a last Gen game.

The jump this Gen from these top tier AAA studios is simply too small. Ff7 looks virtually identical and has some really bizarre scenarios where it actually looks worse. That should never happen on a console 8x more powerful.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah, I think it's level design must be allowing them to achieve the fidelity & performance that it has. Maybe as well, since the actual gameplay mechanics and design of the game was done already it allowed the developers to spend a lot more time on optimising and perfecting the visuals and performance.

I also like that it doesn't use FSR. There's no (or minimal) artifacting and grainess in the game. It's so refreshing and enjoyable to look at.

Give lords of the fallen videos on YouTube a shot. The game is too low res on consoles at 60 fps and while the 30 fps mode is around 1440p, it has bad frame pacing so it never feels smooth. Wouldn’t recommend it unless you have a powerful PC.

But the lighting, volumetric effects and asset quality is very impressive even in YouTube videos. Comes very close to the ds imo.

 

[Lethal01]

Game developers have always been able to do both. Make gamey games while pushing visuals. I’m not sure why big name devs like rocksteady and square enix have stagnated and are settling for less. SSM settled for less. Polyphony digital. Naughts Dog and even GG shouldn’t have settled for making a last Gen game.

The jump this Gen from these top tier AAA studios is simply too small. Ff7 looks virtually identical and has some really bizarre scenarios where it actually looks worse. That should never happen on a console 8x more powerful.

The bar continues to get raised while the hardware improve ever slower, it makes sense that people that were thought of as legendary talents tend to stumble more often these days.
Looking talented when you are working with 20 people on a ps1` game is easier than working with thousands on on a ps5 one.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Never. The talent is gone from the industry. Whats left are hacks and rookies who have other priorities.

I just watched Dune 2. Took them 2 years to make, and its packed with insane setpieces and big war scenes. Meanwhile FF7 is a ubisoft copy pasta that took 4 years to make. No different from sony copy pastas that take 5-6. Either the industry is a scam or there is simply a massive talent gap between the film industry and the game industry.

FF7 and Suicide Squad are two massive games from two of the biggest studios in the industry and they both failed to raise the bar. People will blame UE4 but i saw plenty of these UE4 demos back in the day. Problem is that devs didnt bother utilizing the hardware. SS targets 1440p 60 fps. FF7 native 4k 30 fps. same pixel budget. they wasted half of the GPU on rendering pixels or framerate instead of pushing visual fidelity or physics or well anything that takes us from PS3 era gameplay design.

Here is an indie dev doing things with animations no studio has done all gen.



At this point, its not the tech thats holding them back. its the talent. the ambition. the desire to be the best. all of that is lacking in the current crop of studios. An industry stuck in a state of arrested development. An industry of hacks.

Well put. I will say that UE5 is by far the most powerful engine right now, there’s no competition with their nanite implementation. It’s been many years and other engines haven’t been able to replicate this. Hopefully soon they will tackle the issue with enabling nanite with dynamic geometry like character models, I’d like to point an example: Nyx Ulric from the final fantasy cgi movie




Likely his character model is way over 10-20 million polygons at the very least. This is a huge deal to have this level of fidelity during gameplay as it is the last piece of the puzzle to virtualize everything. Animation in ue5 is also a weak point but as soon as motion matching becomes standard it should be just as good as the last of us 2.

As soon as small passionate veteran dev teams start using ai (when it keeps maturing) matrix level of scale and fidelity will be super easy to do. So far no game out has accomplished the density that demo has provided.

 

[CGNoire]

I love the world, structures and lighting in Cyberpunk, from a wide panoramic view of the city to a simple back alley, there is great work behind it.

It's a shame that I feel the complete opposite of the NPC's, they seem to me to be of a low level and I feel that they are totally out of place.

R u on console or pc?

The npcs only look decent on PC with OD mode making sure there lit properly at all times.

 

[JCreasy]

A huge cornerstone of UE5's early features was a 'one click' easy project migration. Naturally, it doesn't work for anything but the most basic things and breaks a ton of stuff, but there are quotes from the game director saying some of the team wanted to use UE5 but it was lacking features, and they started work on this before UE5 was even available.

Any details on which features they wanted? UE5 has definitely matured since launch.

I also wonder if this all but confirms that the third installment will be UE5 given that the team wanted to use it.

 

[SlimySnake]

The bar continues to get raised while the hardware improve ever slower, it makes sense that people that were thought of as legendary talents tend to stumble more often these days.
Looking talented when you are working with 20 people on a ps1` game is easier than working with thousands on on a ps5 one.

Id argue that having more resources and a bigger budget would help them achieve their ambition. Not the other way around.

Someone in the other thread pointed out the assets of things like pots and pans, and well pretty much everything else indoors or outdoors. These are outdated even by last gen standards. Did their artists forgot to draw potatoes and tomatoes all of a sudden? did they purposefully draw ps3 era pots and pans for a ps5 game? honestly it makes no sense whatsoever when they made the game on ue4 and shouldve had access to incredibly high quality quixel assets.

The game is lacking in every which way you look. Things i havent seen in over a decade. Like when you walk into an area and instead of gracefully switching between outdoor and indoor lighting, it just switches abruptly. this kind of shit is something you might find in an indie game, not an AAA PS5 exclusive. There was another scene where you switch from gameplay to a dialogue scene, and all of a sudden cloud goes from looking like a PS3 character to a fancy next gen almost cgi character with proper lighting. well, why target native 4k and skip hero lighting? or why use completely different character models for cutscene and gameplay when you have so much headrooom on the GPU?

And honestly, this isnt even a FF7 Rebirth issue. Its A LOT of AAA studios. Suicide Squad has the same issues with low poly buildings which is inexcusable over 3 years after cyberpunk came out. Insomniac reused the same city 3 times in a row. Took CD project 5 years to make cyberpunk, insomniac also took 5 years to make spiderman 2. charged sony $300 million and reused the same city. the same city they made in 4 years just a gen before.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well put. I will say that UE5 is by far the most powerful engine right now, there’s no competition with their nanite implementation. It’s been many years and other engines haven’t been able to replicate this. Hopefully soon they will tackle the issue with enabling nanite with dynamic geometry like character models, I’d like to point an example: Nyx Ulric from the final fantasy cgi movie




Likely his character model is way over 10-20 million polygons at the very least. This is a huge deal to have this level of fidelity during gameplay as it is the last piece of the puzzle to virtualize everything. Animation in ue5 is also a weak point but as soon as motion matching becomes standard it should be just as good as the last of us 2.

As soon as small passionate veteran dev teams start using ai (when it keeps maturing) matrix level of scale and fidelity will be super easy to do. So far no game out has accomplished the density that demo has provided.

Like Nelig said, there is something about UE5 that seems to be a bottleneck. The matrix demo is severely CPU bound on PC and extremely single threaded just like UE4 was. I wouldnt be surprised if FF7 is CPU bound because you effectively control 3 different players and have several other characters also passively taking part in the battle in the background. then there are RPG elements that are traditionally more CPU intensive than action adventure games. If UE5 is even more single threaded and cpu bound than ue4, i am not sure if its the best engine around for every kind of game. shooters and simpler games? sure. but RPGs and anything with destruction or simulations are going to get bottlenecked real fast.

From what i understand, animations are also done on the CPU. Not sure if they are something you can multithread either but if Lumen and nanite are already taking up so many resources, something's gotta give. Epic needs to do a better job supporting their engine.

 

[Neilg]

On UE5, developing a game for an engine you know is lacking what you need in the hope it gets what you need in the middle of development is 100% asking to absolutely fuck the games development and make it a barely profitable, extremely ridiculed stain on your company.

Yeah, which is why they didn't use it.... Dont forget with all the hype in the year leading up to UE5 coming out, nobody knew it was going to be missing somewhat critical features like vegetation. It was basically just a rocks and hard surface engine for the first year, unless you disabled all the features that made it different from UE4. They marketed it like it would be as robust and ready to use as UE4.24

I believe very quickly the ff7 team, probably within 3 months of UE5's release - not long into working on pt2, had to commit to staying in UE4 for the remainder of development. The UE5 features were being marketed 18 months before anyone could try it out - giving everyone a lot of hope about what would be possible.

Arguably UE5 is still not even mature enough for a game like this. 5.5, currently not released, promises to make the engine much more scalable on multiple cores, providing a massive performance boost on more than 4 cores.... (ie: consoles). We're 2 years in and it's finally getting proper multithreading.
5.4 still doesn't even have tesselation/displacement maps working as well as they did in 4, and it wasn't possible to do at all until 5.3. updates to that are coming later this year in 5.5.
All of this is shit that IMO should have been, and was heavily implied it would be, in 5.0.

Still, fingers crossed for pt3 in UE5...

 

[SlimySnake]

I finally got the character models to look good during gameplay. Needed to find a proper light source in the caves area and barret looks excellent. So it does look like they are using high quality character models during gameplay but the lighting is letting them down. I guess its tough to light a big massive open world game like this but i think thats why hero lighting is so important.

Here is Barret in a cutscene shortly after.

 

[Represent.]

These UE5 tech demos drive me nuts. When on earth are we getting this level of fidelity!? Ps6? PS6 pro?

ND's end of gen game

 

[JCreasy]

Yeah, which is why they didn't use it.... Dont forget with all the hype in the year leading up to UE5 coming out, nobody knew it was going to be missing somewhat critical features like vegetation. It was basically just a rocks and hard surface engine for the first year, unless you disabled all the features that made it different from UE4. They marketed it like it would be as robust and ready to use as UE4.24

I believe very quickly the ff7 team, probably within 3 months of UE5's release - not long into working on pt2, had to commit to staying in UE4 for the remainder of development. The UE5 features were being marketed 18 months before anyone could try it out - giving everyone a lot of hope about what would be possible.

Arguably UE5 is still not even mature enough for a game like this. 5.5, currently not released, promises to make the engine much more scalable on multiple cores, providing a massive performance boost on more than 4 cores.... (ie: consoles). We're 2 years in and it's finally getting proper multithreading.
5.4 still doesn't even have tesselation/displacement maps working as well as they did in 4, and it wasn't possible to do at all until 5.3. updates to that are coming later this year in 5.5.
All of this is shit that IMO should have been, and was heavily implied it would be, in 5.0.

Still, fingers crossed for pt3 in UE5...

I wonder if this is why Hellblade 2 is punching out the environment in some of those fight scenes and adding black bars top and bottom through out the game. They’re sacrificing a lot to deliver on the promise of UE5.

Also, does this mean Game Science customized UE5 to deliver what we’re seeing in the trailers?

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Game developers have always been able to do both. Make gamey games while pushing visuals. I’m not sure why big name devs like rocksteady and square enix have stagnated and are settling for less. SSM settled for less. Polyphony digital. Naughts Dog and even GG shouldn’t have settled for making a last Gen game.

The jump this Gen from these top tier AAA studios is simply too small. Ff7 looks virtually identical and has some really bizarre scenarios where it actually looks worse. That should never happen on a console 8x more powerful.

EXACTLY!!! We have The Matrix Awakens demo and no games available look like it yet. Those are CGI like visuals. I expected the TLOU remake to blow TLOU 2 away. It didn’t. FF7 Rebirth should look like CGI cutscenes but it doesn’t. Forbidden West and even Death Stranding 2 could look way better. The power is there 9 to 10 TFLOPS PS5 versus 1.84 PS4. The companies suits only care about profits and being cheap. They use engines that don’t use mesh shaders, nanite, lumen or any other features to make games look next gen. They simply don’t render enough polygons and have the correct lighting to give games the next gen jump. Only a handful of games look sorta “next gen” to me. One is TLOU 2 a 2020 PS4 title…We have Alan Wake 2, Burning Shores, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, Spiderman 2, TLOU Remake, FF16, Avatar, The Order 1886 (yes a 2015 PS4 game), CyberPunk 2077 on PC and a few others. Hellblade 2 trailer made me say wow a few times so that should feel next gen…

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Well put. I will say that UE5 is by far the most powerful engine right now, there’s no competition with their nanite implementation. It’s been many years and other engines haven’t been able to replicate this. Hopefully soon they will tackle the issue with enabling nanite with dynamic geometry like character models, I’d like to point an example: Nyx Ulric from the final fantasy cgi movie




Likely his character model is way over 10-20 million polygons at the very least. This is a huge deal to have this level of fidelity during gameplay as it is the last piece of the puzzle to virtualize everything. Animation in ue5 is also a weak point but as soon as motion matching becomes standard it should be just as good as the last of us 2.

As soon as small passionate veteran dev teams start using ai (when it keeps maturing) matrix level of scale and fidelity will be super easy to do. So far no game out has accomplished the density that demo has provided.

My point is there simply isn’t enough geometry in current video games for the next gen jump. The lighting has to also be pathtraced like Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Represent.]

God I cant wait for this games combat. Forgot how good it looks. Just ran into the trailer again on Youtube. That 1 vs 1 fight in the blood is gonna look stupidly amazing on OLED

Spoiler

in vivid mode

These dark contrasty combat environments with flashes of bright specular highlights all lend themselves well to OLED actually.

 

[JCreasy]

God I cant wait for this games combat. Forgot how good it looks. Just ran into the trailer again on Youtube. That 1 vs 1 fight in the blood is gonna look stupidly amazing on OLED

Spoiler

in vivid mode

These dark contrasty combat environments with flashes of bright specular highlights all lend themselves well to OLED actually.

The limited geometry in the environments demonstrates the issues folks have been getting at with UE5. That engine may not be the magic bullet I was hoping for.

Seems like devs should be calling this out more.

Super curious to see how Black Myth holds up when it ships.

 

[Lethal01]

Yeah, which is why they didn't use it.... Dont forget with all the hype in the year leading up to UE5 coming out, nobody knew it was going to be missing somewhat critical features like vegetation. It was basically just a rocks and hard surface engine for the first year, unless you disabled all the features that made it different from UE4. They marketed it like it would be as robust and ready to use as UE4.24

I believe very quickly the ff7 team, probably within 3 months of UE5's release - not long into working on pt2, had to commit to staying in UE4 for the remainder of development. The UE5 features were being marketed 18 months before anyone could try it out - giving everyone a lot of hope about what would be possible.

Arguably UE5 is still not even mature enough for a game like this. 5.5, currently not released, promises to make the engine much more scalable on multiple cores, providing a massive performance boost on more than 4 cores.... (ie: consoles). We're 2 years in and it's finally getting proper multithreading.
5.4 still doesn't even have tesselation/displacement maps working as well as they did in 4, and it wasn't possible to do at all until 5.3. updates to that are coming later this year in 5.5.
All of this is shit that IMO should have been, and was heavily implied it would be, in 5.0.

Still, fingers crossed for pt3 in UE5...

Yes, I was saying that the choice to not upgrade to UE5and to not totally switch game engine was probably the best one even if it lead to the game looking worse.
However I gotta disagree on Epic being unclear, anyone who actually looked into the engine past the hype trailer saw them very cleary state its limitations from the start.
I even remembering arguing with a ton of people who were constantly saying devs have no reason not to upgrade.

things like pots and pans, and well pretty much everything else indoors or outdoors. These are outdated even by last gen standards. Did their artists forgot to draw potatoes and tomatoes all of a sudden?

That's kinda the point, People point to things like that as an example of lacking talent ant then point to tiny UE5 demos as an example of artists with talent.
I'm saying while a team of a thousand people has the potential to make an amazing game, it also has the potential to have relatively small oversights cause catastrophic knock on effects.
Sometimes companies get lucky and the problem they encounter are relatively easy to fix, sometimes they bank their whole existence on fixing the game, sometime they are rikstar and have infinite time and money. But generally the answer is far from "everyone sucks now and forgot how to make rocks"

Anyway i'm not even gonna make FF7R the example for this, just laughing at the general notion.

So it does look like they are using high quality character models during gameplay but the lighting is letting them down.

Been telling ya this for month, you gotta train your eyes for proper analysis
I suggest beating chapter 4 btw its got the same issues but also some notable achievements.

 

[Lethal01]

My point is there simply isn’t enough geometry in current video games for the next gen jump. The lighting has to also be pathtraced like Cyberpunk 2077.

Yeah, from the start, the graphics you were expecting would take a PS7. I told you years ago you were overestimating a mere 10x jump in hardware from PS4.
Also Devs always "used" to do both, but the challenge or reaching that expectation gets a lot higher when people expect CGI graphics in an open world with GTA Gameplay., Not saying some companies wont get lucky enough to make amazing looking stuff, but the line between success and catastrophic failure is smaller and smaller, most companies see the teams that don't exist cause they kept putting their eggs in one basket as failures rather than an ideal to strive for.

 

[SlimySnake]

The limited geometry in the environments demonstrates the issues folks have been getting at with UE5. That engine may not be the magic bullet I was hoping for.

Seems like devs should be calling this out more.

Super curious to see how Black Myth holds up when it ships.

I don’t think hb2 is using nanite or lumen. It started as a ue4 game so it is basically a ue4 game ported to ue5.

None of their pr mentions nanite or lumen

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes, I was saying that the choice to not upgrade to UE5and to not totally switch game engine was probably the best one even if it lead to the game looking worse.
However I gotta disagree on Epic being unclear, anyone who actually looked into the engine past the hype trailer saw them very cleary state its limitations from the start.
I even remembering arguing with a ton of people who were constantly saying devs have no reason not to upgrade.



That's kinda the point, People point to things like that as an example of lacking talent ant then point to tiny UE5 demos as an example of artists with talent.
I'm saying while a team of a thousand people has the potential to make an amazing game, it also has the potential to have relatively small oversights cause catastrophic knock on effects.
Sometimes companies get lucky and the problem they encounter are relatively easy to fix, sometimes they bank their whole existence on fixing the game, sometime they are rikstar and have infinite time and money. But generally the answer is far from "everyone sucks now and forgot how to make rocks"

Anyway i'm not even gonna make FF7R the example for this, just laughing at the general notion.




Been telling ya this for month, you gotta train your eyes for proper analysis
I suggest beating chapter 4 btw its got the same issues but also some notable achievements.

im pretty sure i said they are talented on the last page. The FF7 remake integrade PS5 upgrade proves that. THe game is also really fucking long so clearly they are not lazy so i figured if they are not untalented or lazy, they must be unambitious.

Typically I would just chalk it up to one dev fucking up, but ive seen this time and time again. I brought up SSM, GG, ND, Insomniac alongside Rocksteady and Square Enix because these are AAA devs who chose to limit themselves to either cross gen games or handicap themselves by targeting native 4k. What is if not lack of ambition?

Is chapter 4 the one after the mines? Junon looked good but after the time of day change, it looks like shit. Again, its the shadows and AO or lack thereof. The same area looked pretty good during sunset.

P.S Seriously though. Watch Dune. I replied to that post after just having watched Dune 2 and being completely blown away by the sheer spectacle of it. Hollywood has its share of producing marvel trash, but man when they deliver they are just leagues ahead of the gaming industry who refuses to take that next big leap. CPUs are being used to do 60 fps instead of pushing simulations or NPCs or AI, SSDs are being used to do faster loading instead of whatever the fuck cerny was promising years ago, the gpu is literally being used to push pixels instead of fidelity. they have the tech and they dont use it. Meanwhile James Cameron creates the tech from scratch, and other directors like Nolan, Ridley Scott, Matt Reeves, Villenvues are dudes we can rely upon to produce a mean looking movie. Cant do that with so many of these AAA studios recently.

 

[SlimySnake]

I dont know why i took these screenshots lol. they looked good on the tv i swear. i wonder if uploading them to the ps app then twitter caused some compression, but the sunset lighting in the first area of the game makes it look far better than the midday lighting which kinda looked flat.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

This generation kinda looks like ass you guys. I bet it's Xbox Series S that's holding everything back.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

This generation kinda looks like ass you guys. I bet it's Xbox Series S that's holding everything back.

You know I think this too but then I look at Death Stranding 2 I'm reminded this gen still has a bit to deliver.

 

[Lethal01]

Typically I would just chalk it up to one dev fucking up, but ive seen this time and time again. I brought up SSM, GG, ND, Insomniac alongside Rocksteady and Square Enix because these are AAA devs who chose to limit themselves to either cross gen games or handicap themselves by targeting native 4k. What is if not lack of ambition?

Budget and time constraints plus leaders that actually understand what the team could produce within those constraints?
I don't see the fact that they didn't set impossible targets and ignore the data about what is achievable to try to get it done via hope and dreams as a strike against them.
I rather they not end up like "ambitious" teams like CD project red or starfield dev that release a mess of a game that sells because marketing made people see their ambition instead of the broken mess they actually created, like maybe if they did that they would get enough hate and enough money to waste an extra year fixing it.

But Square already has 2 Unreal Engine 5 games in their pipeline that they are starting from scratch on, so them not being "ambitious" enough to try to force this specific game to be a showcase of the latest techniques despite the circumstances making saving that for those games a much better choice, let them put out games and push graphics for projects where it makes more sense.

That said, Ofcourse just cause it isn't UE5 doesn't mean I don't think that atleast the AO could be improved.
That said I think if they did lower the graphics mode resolution to add better AO and shadow they would probably just gets stats showing that 90% of players end up choosing the performance mode instead. People are constantly saying how shaodws aren't a big deal and the first thing they lower.

Is chapter 4 the one after the mines? Junon looked good but after the time of day change, it looks like shit. Again, its the shadows and AO or lack thereof. The same area looked pretty good during sunset.

Chapter 4 is very long, doesn't end until you get on a boat

P.S Seriously though. Watch Dune. I replied to that post after just having watched Dune 2 and being completely blown away by the sheer spectacle of it. Hollywood has its share of producing marvel trash, but man when they deliver they are just leagues ahead of the gaming industry who refuses to take that next big leap. CPUs are being used to do 60 fps instead of pushing simulations or NPCs or AI, SSDs are being used to do faster loading instead of whatever the fuck cerny was promising years ago, the gpu is literally being used to push pixels instead of fidelity. they have the tech and they dont use it. Meanwhile James Cameron creates the tech from scratch, and other directors like Nolan, Ridley Scott, Matt Reeves, Villenvues are dudes we can rely upon to produce a mean looking movie. Cant do that with so many of these AAA studios recently.

Comparing games to hollywood is even crazier than comparing AA game on switch to a rockstar game on a 4090.
It can't be understated how completely different the challenges and limitations are. Like, was dune rendered on a PS5?

I dont know why i took these screenshots lol. they looked good on the tv i swear. i wonder if uploading them to the ps app then twitter caused some compression, but the sunset lighting in the first area of the game makes it look far better than the midday lighting which kinda looked flat.

Good art direction, it makes those shots nice to look at regardless of the glaring graphical issues.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Yeah, from the start, the graphics you were expecting would take a PS7. I told you years ago you were overestimating a mere 10x jump in hardware from PS4.
Also Devs always "used" to do both, but the challenge or reaching that expectation gets a lot higher when people expect CGI graphics in an open world with GTA Gameplay., Not saying some companies wont get lucky enough to make amazing looking stuff, but the line between success and catastrophic failure is smaller and smaller, most companies see the teams that don't exist cause they kept putting their eggs in one basket as failures rather than an ideal to strive for.

I never overestimated anything. The Matrix Awakens demo proves I was right. The studios need to match that quality and needing a PS7 is hyperbolic. Look at the Matrix Awakens Demo (PS5 10TFLOPS) and look at the RTX car demo running on a (RTX 4090 82 TFLOPS)

 

[SlimySnake]

End of chapter 4 is impressive I suppose. Pretty big scale, lots of NPCs and some fairly decent modeling. Still, not up to par compared to say similar areas in star wars but i can at least see where the budget went.

Interiors are still crap though and look fairly last gen. Both in terms of lighting and model quality. Star wars did nail the modeling of these 3d objects in the environments so they never felt like painted on textures.

 

[Rubim]

I never overestimated anything. The Matrix Awakens demo proves I was right. The studios need to match that quality and needing a PS7 is hyperbolic. Look at the Matrix Awakens Demo (PS5 10TFLOPS) and look at the RTX car demo running on a (RTX 4090 82 TFLOPS)

But you're missing what NVIDIA Racer is doing vs the Matrix Demo.

But comparing tech demos as actual games is not a good idea, i trough all the UE tech demos would showcase that over the years.


This was 10 years ago.

 

[SlimySnake]

But you're missing what NVIDIA Racer is doing vs the Matrix Demo.

But comparing tech demos as actual games is not a good idea, i trough all the UE tech demos would showcase that over the years.


This was 10 years ago.

Pretty sure that demo was running on a GTX 680 which was way more powerful than the PS4 GPU. The 680 was basically 2x more powerful give or take a few hundred gflops because nvidia tflops were much more performant than AMD's back then.

The Matrix demo and the og UE5 demo were both running on the PS5 hardware. Matrix was playable complete with a gameplay sequence and an open world area to explore with NPCs, driving physics and what not. way different from these cutscene only tech demos from the past.

that said, the proof is in the pudding and the fact that we havent gotten a game that looks nearly as good is probably proof that we will never get the matrix demo visuals on the PS5.

 

[Lethal01]

End of chapter 4 is impressive I suppose. Pretty big scale, lots of NPCs and some fairly decent modeling. Still, not up to par compared to say similar areas in star wars but i can at least see where the budget went.

Interiors are still crap though and look fairly last gen. Both in terms of lighting and model quality. Star wars did nail the modeling of these 3d objects in the environments so they never felt like painted on textures.

Coolest part to me was having the hundred man squad following you whenever you are in town

It's just very funny

 

[hlm666]

These UE5 tech demos drive me nuts. When on earth are we getting this level of fidelity!? Ps6? PS6 pro?

We are seeing that unrecorded type visuals in game now with the bodycam early access. Not sure if you liked the look or not but similar things were being asked about the video released from that ages back. In similar fashion you will probably see these forest level visuals from smaller indies making a smaller scope game (probably a survival game in 2025).



this might be close to the video you posted vegetation wise, if it doesn't fall out of the nerf tree and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[Lethal01]

I never overestimated anything.

You're expectation was for this level of quality to be what to expect ingame on PS5.,
So yeah, vastly over estimating whats actually possible.

The Matrix Awakens demo proves I was right. The studios need to match that quality and needing a PS7 is hyperbolic.

I was looking at the kingsglaive demo, I'll admit I meant to say PS6

 

[Bojji]

This generation kinda looks like ass you guys. I bet it's Xbox Series S that's holding everything back.

Series S didn't hold SE back when they worked on Rebirth.

 

[JCreasy]

I don’t think hb2 is using nanite or lumen. It started as a ue4 game so it is basically a ue4 game ported to ue5.

None of their pr mentions nanite or lumen

Why do you think Ninja Theory migrated to UE5 if not to take advantage of Nanite and Lumen? Legit curious.

 

[amigastar]

I don't know if it's been posted already
I believe we can achieve this kinda graphics in 3-4 years in our games honestly.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Like Nelig said, there is something about UE5 that seems to be a bottleneck. The matrix demo is severely CPU bound on PC and extremely single threaded just like UE4 was. I wouldnt be surprised if FF7 is CPU bound because you effectively control 3 different players and have several other characters also passively taking part in the battle in the background. then there are RPG elements that are traditionally more CPU intensive than action adventure games. If UE5 is even more single threaded and cpu bound than ue4, i am not sure if its the best engine around for every kind of game. shooters and simpler games? sure. but RPGs and anything with destruction or simulations are going to get bottlenecked real fast.

From what i understand, animations are also done on the CPU. Not sure if they are something you can multithread either but if Lumen and nanite are already taking up so many resources, something's gotta give. Epic needs to do a better job supporting their engine.

apparently according to their roadmap, future iterations of ue5 will enable multithreading so that's huge indeed. They're also improving nanite and making hw lumen accessible in performance mode which will further help 30fps mode look better.

huge things coming in the future

 

[Wishmaster92]

I don't know if it's been posted already
I believe we can achieve this kinda graphics in 3-4 years in our games honestly.

We're already there with robocop, it uses the same texture resolution for terrain. I'd say robocop has better texture variety than that video.

The only difference is that mawi video is running native 4k in which case it would only be possible on ps6. Nanite performance takes a nosedive the higher the resolution.

 

[Lethal01]

huge things coming in the future

Yep, the gen after this may satisfy me when ip comes to realistic graphics, then the one after that mayb give me the scale and interactivity.

The only difference is that mawi video is running native 4k in which case it would only be possible on ps6. Nanite performance takes a nosedive the higher the resolution.

These enviroments with bigger scale and better gameplay, will be great.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Yep, the gen after this may satisfy me when ip comes to realistic graphics, then the one after that mayb give me the scale and interactivity.



These enviroments with bigger scale and better gameplay, will be great.

I would be entirely happy if next gen we get native 4k/60 UE5 games with 8k textures, nanite everything including characters and hair, vsm and hw lumen. I'm sure machine learning will play a major role next gen, we might even see chaos cloth physics/hair physics on every character. Can't wait.

 

[amigastar]

I would be entirely happy if next gen we get native 4k/60 UE5 games with 8k textures, nanite everything including characters and hair, vsm and hw lumen. I'm sure machine learning will play a major role next gen, we might even see chaos cloth physics/hair physics on every character. Can't wait.

Yep, slowly but surely we will get there. Games will look amazing in the future. Can't also wait, lol.