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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
I can agree that The Netflix show has better quality effects going for it, but the fact is we are close and even better in a small few areas. You said we would need way more power to match it 4 years ago. This is real-time versus CGI and on a Series S at that…as far as realism goes, Hellblade 2 honestly looks more realistic in more parts (not talking technology used) because of how it was rendered. Senua can be mistaken for a real person with realistic facial animation. Beyond the Aquila rift has this CGI look and animation to it. In some scenes, Aquila Rift looks real and you can see the benefits of being pre rendered, but it just doesn’t look realistic per say…This is actually a great point, but its also totally on my end rather than being how the show looks, I got an I got an AI upscaled imaged mix in with the direct unedited screencaps of the episode because I was just grabbing the highest res pic I had for gymwolf.
Other than that nah, The Netflix episode has more advanced SSS, Shadows, Reflections, Indirect lighting/AO... Hair, Cloth. How close Hellblade comes is great and should be celebrated but it still has a ways to go. If someone says its clos I won't disagree, "close" is subjective, but if someone says its better they are just wrong.
There is a scene in the netfix adaption I think does not look great though
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
If multiple people are comparing them, it means something…and you pick the best shot of BtAR and the worst shots of Hellblade 2…Beyond the Aquila Rift has better quality effects in some parts and on par in others but it doesn’t look more realistic IMO…"IF IT ISN'T TRUE THEN I WOULN"D HACE CHOSE TO COMPARE IT"
This has gotta be the worst argument you could make. You comparing something is not proof that it should be comaped.
vs
Come on guys, we can say the game is great graphically without spewing nonsense.
Liking a character design does not equal being more graphically impressive. it doesn't matter how much you like Senua face paint.
nosoynadie22
Member
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DanielG165
Member
This game man… I don’t know what else this generation will reach this particular level.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
My god the combat looks fucking phenomenal
Jesus
Jesus
Lethal01
Member
Ant that is still true, The shadows, GI, SSS, AO, and Reflections, in other words, the entire lighting model in general is far better in Aquila, as are the cloth, and the hair. You may claim it's "close enough" and if it's close enough for you personally fine, but nah, needs way more power to get there, here's hoping a 5090 can pull it off.,
I try to use picks of bare skin from Hellblade to make a clearer comparison, my shot were all HDR and not really usable so I grabbed the shots that people in this thread claimed showcased the game looking mindblowing, but after I replayed the opening to get som quick clean shot of my own which very truthfully reflect the game.
Yes, it shows that there are a decent amount of people in this thread that have no idea what they are talking about, a Fact I knew since your OP
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CamHostage
Member
While we continue to wait to get Nanite Characters fully functioning Im dying to see devs utilize Nanite for armor and exo suits still.
Im talking detail on Fausto de Martini's level.
Eh, but that's confusing what is "rigid" in a rigid model is, right? There's not squash or stretch in armor, but there are still a lot of joints and junctions, plus what looks like pistons or clips here. Nanite objects can move as need be (we saw it in the second UE5 demo with the giant robot boss, ) but they don't interact well on their surface and they have trouble with overdraw. (I haven't seen a good analysis of how the Nanite Skeletal Mesh is doing aside from the usual JV toss-shit-at-the-wall-and-call-whatever-sticks-"amazing" homemade demos, but foliage seems to have been implemented in line with the positive and few negative aspects of Nanite.) A complex armor set I would assume going to have a few challenges to work out even with Nanite helping.
(Plus, these kinds of surfaces and details, I wouldn't guess model fidelity is held back by not enough polys usually. The detailing decals and material surface and fine shading is way more important. They can add an infinite number of buckles to a costume, as evidenced by Nomura FFs, what's hard is making the leather leather and the metal convincingly metal. )
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
just beat it
the combast sessions are 12/10. would be a modern masterpiece if there was more of a focus on combat.
however, truly a modern work of technical art. this to me, is a tech demo, and i dont mean that as an insult - its the best way to show off how tech is supposed to be used. got damn it looks good
the combast sessions are 12/10. would be a modern masterpiece if there was more of a focus on combat.
however, truly a modern work of technical art. this to me, is a tech demo, and i dont mean that as an insult - its the best way to show off how tech is supposed to be used. got damn it looks good
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
this happens with every game that pushes the bar in this thread.
the funny thing is that just a few weeks ago, we were jizzing all over the order 1886 and its an even more linear/closed off game than hellblade 2 which at least has to render some outdoor environments not blocked off by buildings.
it took us 10 days to lose perspective.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This looked like something straight out of a movie.
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
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Lethal01
Member
Yeah, I don't get why people need to distract from how good it is with random shit.
We can't just say, "Wow this is a fantastic step forward regardless of caveats"
Nah, we gotta go "OMG THIS MAKES AVATAR 2 LOOK LIKE GARBAGE".
Lethal01
Member
I always maintained the perspective that these hallway simulator "experiences" are a plague on the gaming landscape and a waste of all the pretty graphics that went into them. HB2's mediocre story and gameplay are just painful.
This looked like something straight out of a movie.
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
Rebirth environments are pretty sad. Still though, that terrible lighting is a far bigger issue here than the asset.
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JCreasy
Member
I seWhile we continue to wait to get Nanite Characters fully functioning Im dying to see devs utilize Nanite for armor and exo suits still.
Im talking detail on Fausto de Martini's level.
I was more interested in the overall polygonal detail with all its parralax opportunities. It doesnt even have to have all the part moveable and it would still look awesome
I agree but certain artstyles like this would look alot poorer without proper geometry. You couldnt capture this look without it. Honesty the biggest letdown every time I see a realtime robot is its blocky geometry which the dev usual trys to mask via normal maps which just forces them to make silhouette compromises.
To capture this look would almost certainly require subtle raytaced inter-reflections aswell.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The battles at the end of chapter 6.. my fuck. the graphics are inasnity. These visuals + Senua's fantastic performance (her scream when you go to do a heavy attack especially, she really SCREAMS that shit) make that combat really feel... personal.
I think this looks better than the matrix demo, i think i have to rewatch it to avoid recency bias, but if not its damn close
those 1 vs 1 battles made me want a 1 VS 1 Mortal Kombat with THESE graphics. God these publishers are so boring. That would sell fucking millions
Or like, shit Ninja Theory should make a 1 vs 1 MP DLC. With those graphics and that combat, with a few extra moves. idk, just give me more of THAT
I think this looks better than the matrix demo, i think i have to rewatch it to avoid recency bias, but if not its damn close
those 1 vs 1 battles made me want a 1 VS 1 Mortal Kombat with THESE graphics. God these publishers are so boring. That would sell fucking millions
Or like, shit Ninja Theory should make a 1 vs 1 MP DLC. With those graphics and that combat, with a few extra moves. idk, just give me more of THAT
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Stealing this image from Era.
This is the guy whose at the very start of the game for just one scene (I can't say for sure if this same model is recycled later), but just look at the incredible detail for someone whose only on-screen for like 10 seconds.
I don't think I've seen other games have this highly detailed facial hair strands.
This is the guy whose at the very start of the game for just one scene (I can't say for sure if this same model is recycled later), but just look at the incredible detail for someone whose only on-screen for like 10 seconds.
I don't think I've seen other games have this highly detailed facial hair strands.
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Negotiator101
Member
Is that from a cutscene or a gameplay shot?Stealing this image from Era.
This is the guy whose at the very start of the game for just one scene (I can't say for sure if this same model is recycled later), but just look at the incredible detail for someone whose only on-screen for like 10 seconds.
I don't think I've seen other games have this highly detailed facial hair strands.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This is from a cut-scene right at the very start of the game. Like 2 mins into the intro.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
My new Top 10 for this gen. Next gen only.
1) Hellblade 2
2) Avatar
3) Alan Wake 2
4) Demon Souls
5) Starfield
6) Star Wars Jedi Survivor
7) FF16
8) Ratchet
9) Dragons Dogma 2
10) Spiderman 2
Cyberpunk, Callisto and HFW would probably be on there at the expense of the bottom three.
1) Hellblade 2
2) Avatar
3) Alan Wake 2
4) Demon Souls
5) Starfield
6) Star Wars Jedi Survivor
7) FF16
8) Ratchet
9) Dragons Dogma 2
10) Spiderman 2
Cyberpunk, Callisto and HFW would probably be on there at the expense of the bottom three.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This just makes me irrationally angry at Sony studios like ssm.Stealing this image from Era.
This is the guy whose at the very start of the game for just one scene (I can't say for sure if this same model is recycled later), but just look at the incredible detail for someone whose only on-screen for like 10 seconds.
I don't think I've seen other games have this highly detailed facial hair strands.
This industry has been infested by complacent lazy hacks who have been given keys to a ferrari and continue to drive a Ford.
ChiefDada
Member
Respectable list.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Would love to play more of that Demons remake but I'm a filthy casual-mode player and want an easy mode there.
I would put Cyberpunk in the top 5. Callisto Protocol and HFW also up in the top 10. And MS FligthSimulator among that top 10 in any of the positions.
I would remove Starfield and DD2 and FF and put them in the meritorious slot.
On the other hand, a very respectable list.
PeteBull
Member
Hellblade is this gens The Order 1886, small constrained spaces, barely any gameplay, cant compare it to full fledged fun gameplay high in content open world game.This looked like something straight out of a movie.
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
Radical_3d
Member
Demons is not as meme as Dark Souls. It’s easier.
winjer
Gold Member
This looked like something straight out of a movie.
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
That is a bit unfair, considering that Rebirth is using UE4.18 from 2017, while Hellblade is using UE 5.3 from 2023.
GymWolf
Member
Imagine keeping hfw out of a list in favour of fucking dogma2...
I would be ok with fucking returnal over d2, that game actually make me feel something while looking at the graphic.
Hell i would be ok with no rest for the wicked, animal well or hades 2 over d2, those achieve more as 2d indies\isometric than d2 achieve as a 3d game.
I would be ok with fucking returnal over d2, that game actually make me feel something while looking at the graphic.
Hell i would be ok with no rest for the wicked, animal well or hades 2 over d2, those achieve more as 2d indies\isometric than d2 achieve as a 3d game.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Games came out 2 months apart on the same hardware specs. one cost $20 more. No one forced square enix to use UE4.18 from 2017.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
That's entirely up to the developer. The game isn't even cross-gen anymore.
winjer
Gold Member
But one has a lot more custom code, that makes it very difficult to upgrade the engine, mid development.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
both games started dev around 2020. FF7 shipped a few weeks before the UE5 demo was revealed.
I am sure game development is difficult but thats why i paid $70 for rebirth. i dont pay $70 for tv shows, movies, music, books or even baseball tickets. watched bill burr last week and paid $52 for the seats. we pay insanely high prices for games on top of a $500 console upgrade because we expect them to take full advantage of these consoles. any dev thats charging $70 for these games and phoning in last gen games has simply no excuse.
winjer
Gold Member
Most custom code in Rebirth comes from Intergrade.
There is no comparison between the amount of custom code between FFVII and Hellblade.
Lethal01
Member
more importantly, FF7 is just a far bigger game with far more complex gameplay and actual systems, large crowds. It's a lot easier to switch engines and make a game in general if you ignore a bunch of the hard parts of making an actual game. Ialways say that Rebirt could lok better, but HB2 is the worst comparison to any actual game honestly.
I also don't play 70$ for movies, which is why Hellblade 2 isn't worth it.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They're both platform exclusives that released a few months apart. If HB2 had come out last year, it would similarly be compared with FF16. Not seeing the issue here.
DanielG165
Member
Cutscene, but the parity between such and raw gameplay is absolutely minuscule.
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This looked like something straight out of a movie.
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
The detail of the first UE5 demo on Ps5 has not even been matched.
The use of virtual texturing with 8k resolution textures and the huge geometric detail on assets are beyond the 90% of Hellblade 2 models an any game we have now
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
sorry but thats just excuses. this was not dlc they had to get out in a year. they had 4 years to make Rebirth. FOUR years. They spent all of that time on a bloated hundred hour campaign with 50 hours of mini games and ubisoft style checklist open worlds. If it was a matter of time and resources then they shouldve cut half of those awful mini games and dance sequences. hire more engineers to port that code to UE5 and fewer mini game designers.
we simply cannot be ok with devs taking 4 years AFTER the reveal of next gen consoles and building games on last gen tech. Especially AAA studios with exclusive moneyhat money from sony. standards have to be higher for exclusives, and AAA games with $70 price tags. We have smaller devs who released UE5 games last year with no money from daddy sony or mommy microsoft.
At the end of the day, everyone knows SE took shortcuts and didnt want to put in the effort to upgrade their engine. An engine created by a third party. It's already there. All the features and APIs are already there. All they had to do was port it. they couldve had help from Sony xdev. They couldve had help from epic. They chose not to. And frankly, it;s not my concern because i paid $70 for it anyway.
besides, games like star wars and callisto also used UE4 and had way better asset quality and lighting, but even those games wouldve looked way better if they had chosen UE5. But FF7 goes out of its way to have these shitty graphics as if they had no standards whatsoever when creating this game.
GymWolf
Member
Hb2 is not comparable to anything tbh, it's too much of a limited experience to be categorized in the same league of actual games or even worse, large sandbox\open world games.
We probably peaked with hb2 when it comes to pure graphic for this gen because nobody is gonna try to do what nt did with hb2 (and thank fucking god for that)
I'm sure gta6 or tlou3 are gonna be overall more impressive as a package, tlou3 is probably gonna have even better models\faces, but i don't see anyone having the same details in the locations.
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winjer
Gold Member
sorry but thats just excuses. this was not dlc they had to get out in a year. they had 4 years to make Rebirth. FOUR years. They spent all of that time on a bloated hundred hour campaign with 50 hours of mini games and ubisoft style checklist open worlds. If it was a matter of time and resources then they shouldve cut half of those awful mini games and dance sequences. hire more engineers to port that code to UE5 and fewer mini game designers.
we simply cannot be ok with devs taking 4 years AFTER the reveal of next gen consoles and building games on last gen tech. Especially AAA studios with exclusive moneyhat money from sony. standards have to be higher for exclusives, and AAA games with $70 price tags. We have smaller devs who released UE5 games last year with no money from daddy sony or mommy microsoft.
At the end of the day, everyone knows SE took shortcuts and didnt want to put in the effort to upgrade their engine. An engine created by a third party. It's already there. All the features and APIs are already there. All they had to do was port it. they couldve had help from Sony xdev. They couldve had help from epic. They chose not to. And frankly, it;s not my concern because i paid $70 for it anyway.
besides, games like star wars and callisto also used UE4 and had way better asset quality and lighting, but even those games wouldve looked way better if they had chosen UE5. But FF7 goes out of its way to have these shitty graphics as if they had no standards whatsoever when creating this game.
They had 4 years to make Rebirth, because they didn't have to redo all the custom code. Otherwise it would have taken them much longer.
You continue to pretend that custom code is nothing special, but it makes a huge difference in how fast a game can be upgraded.
A game like Hellblade, that has almost no gameplay, has barely any custom code. So they can upgrade the engine much faster.
DanielG165
Member
I think regardless of those who try to downplay HB2 in whatever way they possibly can(typically from people who haven’t seen it in person), they don’t at all change the fact that, objectively, HB2 is far and away the best looking video game that has ever been made, outside of an out-in-out airplane simulator.
Whether or not people want to accept or acknowledge that a slower paced niche title from Ninja Theory and Microsoft now firmly holds that crown, is up to them. But, for those of us, mostly, who have seen this game natively, it’s a pretty easy statement to make.
“We can’t compare HB2 to a large open world game.” Why? The vast sweeping vistas that show the entire environment/map, and indicate a transition in chapters in HB2, yet still maintain a level of photorealistic detail beyond what we’ve ever seen, even in your open world games… Beg to differ.
They literally sweep across the map, keeping the camera placed firmly on the plains and hills that were once off in the far distance, in these super slick transition moments, and the fidelity is literally photorealistic. It legitimately looks as though we’re going through a shot taken out of a NatGeo nature documentary, yet it’s from a game. No open world game has ever come close to that. HB2 is the reigning graphical and technological champ for video games. Period.
GymWolf
Member
Negotiator101
Member
Yes but there is a difference, I honestly couldn't tell here though that's why I asked.
Lethal01
Member
Going, "X looks better and Y" makes sense.
Going "This 2 hour long cutscene looks better than Y, Y should look this good, the creators of Y suck" is insane.
but people on here will tell Devs they suck as soon as they see a 5 second tech demo so it's expected.
Lethal01
Member
Having a pretty background is a much smaller challenge than having an actual open world, that should be obvious.
GymWolf
Member
Yep, even super trolled games like the last assassins creed have a lot of shit going on in the open world, animals hunting each others, day and night cycles for npcs, random chaos starting between soldiers and rebels, npcs reacting to your passage, soldiers picking cadavers from the ground to put em in a single place etc.
None of this, or even simpler stuff like animals or enemies roaming the map is present in hb2.
No dynamic destruction or interaction with the scenery, the gif that drusilla posted also show lack of basic vegetation physics (probably not everywhere, i hope).
The game is as much as a tech demo for ue5 as it comes, people saying that just seeing the background is like rendering an actual open world game are way off the mark.
Like i think we all agree that this is the best looking game title in the market but it has a big cost, this shit doesn't come for free.
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Luipadre
Member
Atleast FF7 rebirth was a much better game and while it had its rough spots it was still gorgeous overallThis looked like something straight out of a movie.
The asset quality in this game is beyond what we saw in the PS5 UE5 demo. You would see this in a Disney+ live action movie or a star wars tv show with those 360 screens.
Meanwhile FF7 Rebirth:
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