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[adamsapple]

Going, "X looks better and Y" makes sense.
Going "This 2 hour long cutscene looks better than Y, Y should look this good, the creators of Y suck" is insane.
but people on here will tell Devs they suck as soon as they see a 5 second tech demo so it's expected.

But folks gush about real time graphics in limited-scope games like Order, Detroit (or any Quantic Dream game) etc all the time.

Whether a game is open world or not is kinda irrelevant to the point of this topic.

 

[Hellgardia]

While an amazing game visually, i actually quite prefered the first Hellblade to this one.

 

[DanielG165]

Yes but there is a difference, I honestly couldn't tell here though that's why I asked.

There is a difference, yes, but it’s an incredibly tiny difference!

 

[Insane Metal]

Why?

Damn that's a bummer.

 

[SlimySnake]

Best torch/flame lighting ive ever seen.

 

[JCreasy]

Stealing this image from Era.

This is the guy whose at the very start of the game for just one scene (I can't say for sure if this same model is recycled later), but just look at the incredible detail for someone whose only on-screen for like 10 seconds.

I don't think I've seen other games have this highly detailed facial hair strands.

I want this for Kratos.

 

[CamHostage]

But folks gush about real time graphics in limited-scope games like Order, Detroit (or any Quantic Dream game) etc all the time.

Whether a game is open world or not is kinda irrelevant to the point of this topic.

Saying Hellblade 2 looks great and uses UE5 really well to present the most photorealistic and seamlessly detailed visuals in interactive entertainment yet is fine and good. Give this game all of its kudos.

Saying every other developer in the industry is incompetent and lazy and behind the times because their robust games don't look as good as this tightly-controlled game experience is disingenuous and unaware of what game technology is doing for players.

If somebody still insists, I don't care, I want these graphics all day long, well okay, but you're going to lose elsewhere...

 

[adamsapple]

Saying Hellblade 2 looks great and uses UE5 really well to present the most photorealistic and seamlessly detailed visuals in interactive entertainment yet is fine and good.

Saying every other developer in the industry is incompetent and lazy and behind the times because their robust games don't look as good as this tightly-controlled game experience is disingenuous and unaware of what game technology is doing for you.

If somebody still insists, I don't care, I want these graphics all day long, okay, but you're going to lose elsewhere...

While I won't go as far as to say devs are incompetent, you do kinda expect better, technically, for an exclusive game 4 years into the generation that isn't even cross-gen, especially considering the prestige / budgeting.

Rebirth devs have chosen the path of least resistance and are using the same iteration of UE4 for all 3 of the FFVII-R projects, with minimal backend engine upgrades, and if you think people are being harsh now, if they release a third game in 2027/2028 without any notable technical advancements, the reception is gonna be even worse then.

 

[winjer]

While I won't go as far as to say devs are incompetent, you do kinda expect better, technically, for an exclusive game 4 years into the generation that isn't even cross-gen, especially considering the prestige / budgeting.

Rebirth devs have chosen the path of least resistance and are using the same iteration of UE4 for all 3 of the FFVII-R projects, with minimal backend engine upgrades, and if you think people are being harsh now, if they release a third game in 2027/2028 without any notable technical advancements, the reception is gonna be even worse then.

That is true. But there is a cost in having to port all that custom code to UE5.
Not only in monetary terms, but also development time.
If they do decide to update to UE5, the game will probably take much longer to complete. So it won't be ready in 2028, but in 2030.

 

[adamsapple]

That is true. But there is a cost in having to port all that custom code to UE5.
Not only in monetary terms, but also development time.
If they do decide to update to UE5, the game will probably take much longer to complete. So it won't be ready in 2028, but in 2030.

They don't have to completely shift to UE5. Jedi Survivor is also a UE4 based game and it looks fantastic. They even shoehorned in RT options in there.

 

[winjer]

They don't have to completely shift to UE5. Jedi Survivor is also a UE4 based game and it looks fantastic. They even shoehorned in RT options in there.

But Survivor is using UE4.27 from 2022. And it has had a ton of upgrades since UE4.18
It will probably still be easier than going for UE5, but a lot of things still have to be redone.
Square decided to continue to use UE4.18 for Rebirth, when they could have update to 4.27, but they decided not to, because of that.
We all want the shiniest graphics ad newest features, but that has costs involved.

 

[adamsapple]

But Survivor is using UE4.27 from 2022. And it has had a ton of upgrades since UE4.18
It will probably still be easier than going for UE5, but a lot of things still have to be redone.
Square decided to continue to use UE4.18 for Rebirth, when they could have update to 4.27, but they decided not to, because of that.
We all want the shiniest graphics ad newest features, but that has costs involved.

Going by the games current sales reception, it doesn't look like they're going to invest much in upgrades for the game either, they're probably gonna try to have it out asap which would mean little / no time for engine improvements.

 

[winjer]

Going by the games current sales reception, it doesn't look like they're going to invest much in upgrades for the game either, they're probably gonna try to have it out asap which would mean little / no time for engine improvements.

Exactly. SE has to consider how much things cost, and it might not be possible.

And personally, I rather have a game with average graphics, but with good gameplay. Than to have a game with top graphics, with almost no gameplay.

 

[Musilla]

They wasted all the rendering budget on her fucking gums

 

[GymWolf]

Rdr2 does it even better and run on a xone.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

sorry but thats just excuses. this was not dlc they had to get out in a year. they had 4 years to make Rebirth. FOUR years. They spent all of that time on a bloated hundred hour campaign with 50 hours of mini games and ubisoft style checklist open worlds. If it was a matter of time and resources then they shouldve cut half of those awful mini games and dance sequences. hire more engineers to port that code to UE5 and fewer mini game designers.

we simply cannot be ok with devs taking 4 years AFTER the reveal of next gen consoles and building games on last gen tech. Especially AAA studios with exclusive moneyhat money from sony. standards have to be higher for exclusives, and AAA games with $70 price tags. We have smaller devs who released UE5 games last year with no money from daddy sony or mommy microsoft.

At the end of the day, everyone knows SE took shortcuts and didnt want to put in the effort to upgrade their engine. An engine created by a third party. It's already there. All the features and APIs are already there. All they had to do was port it. they couldve had help from Sony xdev. They couldve had help from epic. They chose not to. And frankly, it;s not my concern because i paid $70 for it anyway.

besides, games like star wars and callisto also used UE4 and had way better asset quality and lighting, but even those games wouldve looked way better if they had chosen UE5. But FF7 goes out of its way to have these shitty graphics as if they had no standards whatsoever when creating this game.

FF7R was developed in 4 years, which included a world wide pandemic for two years of it. I say that is quite phenomenal. The game refined and fixed the vast majority of things from Remake and has a very good chance of winning GOTY. They didn't focus on the graphics, but I would say those resources were better put elsewhere. It is not easy switching game engines, even if it's UE4 to UE5

 

[GymWolf]

I didn't knew that senua was the real life model for the scream made by munch.

 

[adamsapple]

FF7R was developed in 4 years, which included a world wide pandemic for two years of it. I say that is quite phenomenal. The game refined and fixed the vast majority of things from Remake and has a very good chance of winning GOTY. They didn't focus on the graphics, but I would say those resources were better put elsewhere. It is not easy switching game engines, even if it's UE4 to UE5

To be fair, Hb2 didn't begin development until 2020 either. That 2019 trailer was a target render.

Ninja Theory Reveals When Hellblade 2 Development Started

Ninja Theory studio head Dom Matthews reveals that Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 hasn't been in development as long as fans may believe.

gamerant.com

• Hellblade 2 development began in 2020, not earlier, surprising fans who assumed it had started much longer ago.
• The game's impressive graphics in the first trailer were not indicative of its actual development progress.

 

[amigastar]

I didn't knew that senua was the real life model for the scream made by munch.

Whats going on, why is her face so deformed? I don't play the game so i wouldn't know.

 

[GymWolf]

Whats going on, why is her face so deformed? I don't play the game so i wouldn't know.

Change of expression during fights, dude just took a pic with photomode during a funny looking moment.

Maybe some skin deformation going on like the old fight night games on ps3.

 

[Represent.]

Untouchable.

 

[adamsapple]

Whats going on, why is her face so deformed? I don't play the game so i wouldn't know.

A very well timed capture of face distortion cause she's getting smacked on the side of the head with something there.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

To be fair, Hb2 didn't begin development until 2020 either. That 2019 trailer was a target render.

Ninja Theory Reveals When Hellblade 2 Development Started

Ninja Theory studio head Dom Matthews reveals that Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 hasn't been in development as long as fans may believe.

gamerant.com

Yeah, it's hard to compare. HB2 is a 6-7hr hr on the rails game that plays more like a tech demo, with incredible visuals/cinematics

 

[GymWolf]

Untouchable.

Is this the difference between cutscene and gameplay? Because first pic looks noticeably worse than some of the pics in this topic, look at the eyes and ears and skin details, or maybe it's just the different light...

 

[Lethal01]

But folks gush about real time graphics in limited-scope games like Order, Detroit (or any Quantic Dream game) etc all the time.

Whether a game is open world or not is kinda irrelevant to the point of this topic.

People make it relevant when they use it as a benchmark for what should be easily doable in games that give half a shit about interactivity.
They constantly go "this cutscene is amazing, Why does game X not look like that" If people could praise it for what it is without doing that I would agree.

that said, I hate everything the order stands for.

 

[DanielG165]

Is this the difference between cutscene and gameplay? Because first pic looks noticeably worse than some of the pics in this topic, look at the eyes and ears and skin details, or maybe it's just the different light...

Difference in lighting conditions. The lighting in this game can drastically affect how a scene and character looks, but the fidelity is the same.

 

[Balducci30]

Hb2 is not comparable to anything tbh, it's too much of a limited experience to be categorized in the same league of actual games or even worse, large sandbox\open world games.

We probably peaked with hb2 when it comes to pure graphic for this gen because nobody is gonna try to do what nt did with hb2 (and thank fucking god for that)

I'm sure gta6 or tlou3 are gonna be overall more impressive as a package, tlou3 is probably gonna have even better models\faces, but i don't see anyone having the same details in the locations.

I wouldn’t speak too soon. They said UE5.5 has made the engine about 2x faster at rendering - and Hellblade doesn’t use some features that will be available, like nanite characters. Probably if they had a larger team instead of 80 people they would’ve paid more attention to foliage moving when you walk through it and stuff like that as well - that’s not an engine limitation. I think we could get to this level within a real game by the end of the gen. Maybe not open world but I think it’s doable

 

[Masterofchapter]

I wouldn’t speak too soon. They said UE5.5 has made the engine about 2x faster at rendering - and Hellblade doesn’t use some features that will be available, like nanite characters. Probably if they had a larger team instead of 80 people they would’ve paid more attention to foliage moving when you walk through it and stuff like that as well - that’s not an engine limitation. I think we could get to this level within a real game by the end of the gen. Maybe not open world but I think it’s doable

Unreal engine is trash all linear games the foliage sucks

 

[Balducci30]

Unreal engine is trash all linear games the foliage sucks

You can make the foliage move though in the later versions at least, if developers put the effort in. Similar to how in the first showing of Horizon the foliage wasn’t moving and they called it out on digital foundry - then in the final game it did move

 

[Balducci30]

Is this the difference between cutscene and gameplay? Because first pic looks noticeably worse than some of the pics in this topic, look at the eyes and ears and skin details, or maybe it's just the different light...

I think those are both cutscenes but with different lighting

 

[Proelite]

Is this the difference between cutscene and gameplay? Because first pic looks noticeably worse than some of the pics in this topic, look at the eyes and ears and skin details, or maybe it's just the different light...

Top is indirect lighting. Bottom is direct lighting.

 

[GymWolf]

Top is indirect lighting. Bottom is direct lighting.

well i must say, she really doens't look on a league on its own in that first pic.

But tbf, i don't think the characters look on a league on its own with any light condition, they are the best in the market but not by a gigantic margin.

The locations are the real stars and really on a league on its own.

 

[SlimySnake]

Hellblade is this gens The Order 1886, small constrained spaces, barely any gameplay, cant compare it to full fledged fun gameplay high in content open world game.

Yes, Order will always look consistently better than more open games like RDR2, AC Unity, Origins, Horizon, Uncharted 4 and TLOU2, but the difference wasnt generational. Especially not in terms of lighting and asset quality. We all ended up picking those games over The Order when it came to picking best of generation lists, didnt we?

Hellblade 2 is basically pushing matrix quality visuals I spent years arguing were possible this gen in open world games but was dismissed because it was a tech demo. Now this game is being dismissed because its not open world.

We are no longer in the PS3 era where linear games like Uncharted looked a generation ahead of open world games like AC. Since around 2013 or so devs have figured out their streaming tech and are able to push lots of detail in open world games. Horizon pushes an insane amount of data up close. With the new Cerny IO, SSD tech and nanite taking an inexplicably small vram footprint, the FF7 rebirth quality textures and assets are simply not excusable. Star Wars does this already. it's open world and yet when they go indoors they push the asset quality up way higher than it is in the open world. Which is still pretty high in comparison to FF7.

If you dont like the hellblade 2 comparison, i think Avatar also shits on FF7 Rebirth. And thats an open world game far bigger than FF7 rebirth.

 

[Darsxx82]

You can make the foliage move though in the later versions at least, if developers put the effort in. Similar to how in the first showing of Horizon the foliage wasn’t moving and they called it out on digital foundry - then in the final game it did move

The thing is that vegetation in HB2 has its own movement and interacts with the wind. Even the little blades of grass have movement and look great. The only thing missing is the interaction with the characters. They may not be using the most up-to-date version of UE5 for some features, or they may not have seen the need to focus on it in a more conscientiously. In fact, when the PS5 UE5 demo was shown, the work on vegetation was incomplete but now is much better.

 

[Rain432]

Horizon still the best from what i saw in this comparison

 

[Buggy Loop]

Some are old but I just stumbled on this today and I NEED this.

 

[Msamy]

Watching some leaked 4k videos from valve upcoming deadlock game and it looks graphicly better than all games with similar graphics style really valve did agreat job i didn't expect them to top fortnite (ue5 version) graphicly

 

[RavionUHD]

Just finished Ghost of Tsushima on PC in 4K Ultrawide, great game with great visuals, espacially the art style is really good!

 

[JCreasy]

Horizon still the best from what i saw in this comparison

This really demonstrates how I might’ve fallen victim to recency bias.

Decima is no joke.

If Guerrilla figures out their own version of virtualized geometry, the results would be incredible.

Simply leveling up to 3Lateral’s 4D ML rigs would help their next project look next-gen. Assuming it’s Horizon, this would also require bringing in Hannah Hoekstra to do the performance capture to get the most out of the training technology.

We already see a new GI solution in at work in the most recent Death Stranding 2 trailer.

Decima is a beast!

Damn, I want next-gen Killzone!

 

[Msamy]

This really demonstrates how I might’ve fallen victim to recency bias.

Decima is no joke.

If Guerrilla figures out their own version of virtualized geometry, the results would be incredible.

Simply leveling up to 3Lateral’s 4D ML rigs would help their next project look next-gen. Assuming it’s Horizon, this would also require bringing in Hannah Hoekstra to do the performance capture to get the most out of the training technology.

We already see a new GI solution in at work in the most recent Death Stranding 2 trailer.

Decima is a beast!

Damn, I want next-gen Killzone!

I think ds2 also gonna have similar tech to nanite , kojima really cares about his games specially in implementation of latest graphics technologies

 

[proandrad]

Why?

This is the next gen you people wanted? 30 fps with little to no interactivity, but hey those screenshots look amazing. The Matrix Awaken Tech demo has more interaction than this. This game is 1 step above a point and click adventure, reminds me of Myst.

 

[vivftp]

We already got top tier level graphics last gen on the PS4. Show me a game where the characters look better than this!



Lighting is absolutely spot-on

 

[CamHostage]

We already got top tier level graphics last gen on the PS4. Show me a game where the characters look better than this!



Lighting is absolutely spot-on

...And it absolutely could not be accused of being a "Walking Simulator"

 

[Crayon]

Horizon still the best from what i saw in this comparison

I saw this yesterday and I was surprised, too. One of the first things I said when I say the final HB2 was "this makes forbidden west look like shit!" while loling to my wife. After watching this video, I was not so sure.

In fact, the video made we want to see hb2 without the heavy post processing. I love post effects but they can obscure things.

 

[SlimySnake]

I saw this yesterday and I was surprised, too. One of the first things I said when I say the final HB2 was "this makes forbidden west look like shit!" while loling to my wife. After watching this video, I was not so sure.

In fact, the video made we want to see hb2 without the heavy post processing. I love post effects but they can obscure things.

Thats because you need to play it on the big screen. these youtube videos dont do these next gen games any favors. all the detail and volumetric effects are lost.

just go back and play hfw then pop-in hellblade 2 and you will immediately see the difference. HB2 does nearly everything better. Lighting, asset quality, textures, volumetric effects, reflections, cutscenes, character models (though not by much because of the excellent character rendering of hfw), draw distance, and better atmospheric effects leading to a much more CG look than the very gamey looking horizon.

 

[JCreasy]

Thats because you need to play it on the big screen. these youtube videos dont do these next gen games any favors. all the detail and volumetric effects are lost.

just go back and play hfw then pop-in hellblade 2 and you will immediately see the difference. HB2 does nearly everything better. Lighting, asset quality, textures, volumetric effects, reflections, cutscenes, character models (though not by much because of the excellent character rendering of hfw), draw distance, and better atmospheric effects leading to a much more CG look than the very gamey looking horizon.

What’s interesting is HFW is open world AND cross-gen. That’s stunning! What could the Decima engine do with a more linear, native PS5 (Pro) project?

I really believe 3Lateral’s 4D mL system for scanning/rigging character faces also elevates the entire project.

Where is 3Lateral’s 4D being utilized?

Hellblade 2 - https://www.3lateral.com/portfolio/senuas-saga-hellblade-ii
Death Stranding 2 - https://www.3lateral.com/portfolio/death-stranding-2
1943: Rise of Hydra - https://www.creativebloq.com/news/unreal-engine-5-4-marvel-1943

4D ML confirmation for 1943 -

50,000 Scans -

Projects — 3Lateral

3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productions

www.3lateral.com

Effectively, the most visually impressive projects in gaming right now. I believe a lot of that has to do with the incredible character models.

The faces in Hellblade 2 are the most impressive thing about it for me.

 

[Represent.]

Horizon still the best from what i saw in this comparison

This guy playing HB2 on medium or something? It looks way better on my Series X than it does in this video.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol This is so stupidly detailed. I love it.

The game's tracking shots at the beginning of each level as they transport you from one level to the next are breathtaking. They are what Cerny and Tim Sweeney promised back in 2020. You can load levels with just a quick flash then stream in assets with no pop-in using sweeping shots that would put Peter Jackson's LOTR sweeping shots to shame.



The one before this level was even more amazing. The desert one was spectacular too. This feels like a realization of the SSD. I know Spiderman 2 technically had a couple of those shots but this is done on a completely different level of graphics fidelity, and is loading entirely new level instead of simply streaming in the same open world level in spiderman 2.

 

[adamsapple]

lol This is so stupidly detailed. I love it.

The game's tracking shots at the beginning of each level as they transport you from one level to the next are breathtaking. They are what Cerny and Tim Sweeney promised back in 2020. You can load levels with just a quick flash then stream in assets with no pop-in using sweeping shots that would put Peter Jackson's LOTR sweeping shots to shame.



The one before this level was even more amazing. The desert one was spectacular too. This feels like a realization of the SSD. I know Spiderman 2 technically had a couple of those shots but this is done on a completely different level of graphics fidelity, and is loading entirely new level instead of simply streaming in the same open world level in spiderman 2.

Those seamless level tracking shots are amazing, the 'infinite LoD' and no visible pop-in is truly some next (current) gen shit.

 

[GymWolf]

What’s interesting is HFW is open world AND cross-gen. That’s stunning! What could the Decima do with a more linear, native PS5 (Pro) project?

I really believe 3Lateral’s 4D mL system for scanning/rigging character faces also elevates the entire project.

Where is 3Lateral’s 4D being utilized?

Hellblade 2 - https://www.3lateral.com/portfolio/senuas-saga-hellblade-ii
Death Stranding 2 - https://www.3lateral.com/portfolio/death-stranding-2
1943: Rise of Hydra - https://www.creativebloq.com/news/unreal-engine-5-4-marvel-1943

4D ML confirmation for 1943 -

50,000 Scans -

Projects — 3Lateral

3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productions

www.3lateral.com

Effectively, the most visually impressive projects in gaming right now. I believe a lot of that has to do with the incredible character models.

The faces in Hellblade 2 are the most impressive thing about it for me.

Guerrilla would obliterate hb2 if they were doing a 5 hours experience.