Toots
Gold Member
Maybe she's chin-chan long lost sisterI didn't knew that senua was the real life model for the scream made by munch.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
DanielG165
Member
Yeah, those are the moments I was talking about back in one of my previous posts. Those tracking shots alone are head and shoulders above current open world games in fidelity and detail. They legitimately look photorealistic. The fact that there is zero pop in throughout each and every one of them is also baffling.
I just get so excited geeking out over this game, man. It’s genuinely some next (current) gen buffoonery.
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GymWolf
Member
Isn't that just marylin manson with a wig?Maybe she's chin-chan long lost sister
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
New Dragon Age screenshots.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
they already said that its PSVR games and other stuff releasing this year only. So that astrobot game and that gaas game concord from that ex-bungie studio.
You are not getting Ghost Of Tsushima 2, ND's new IP, Bend's new IP, SSM's new IP, Death Stranding or Wolverine. They are all releasing 2025 or later.
Sony has basically turned into a former shell of itself. We will get maybe 4 AAA games from them over the next 4 years. Then rinse and repeat. That era of 3-4 games a year is long gone. They are all 1 game per gen studios now and since they only have 5 AAA studios, that means 5 games at best.
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Masterofchapter
Banned
Old
New Dragon Age screenshots.
Msamy
Member
I just hope that they reveal one true currentt-gen title from any of their first party studios because if they don't show anything this year that means that all of their true current gen titles won't release before 2026 - 2027 and maybe many of them are gonna released as cross gen in ps5 & ps6 , and that will be really disappointing .
Masterofchapter
Banned
Death stranding 2
rhodesianshepard
Banned
3-4 AAA games per year? What the hell you talking about? Let's look at Sony's big AAA games last generation
PS4 gen
Guerilla-HZD and mediocre Killzone
Naughty Dog-Uncharted 4, TLOU2
Bend- Days Gone
Insomniac-Spider-man 2018
Sony Santa Monica-God of War 2018
Sucker Punch-Ghost of Tsushima
That is it for big AAA games released by Sony. And the vast majority of those games were released post-2018, which would be the equivalent of PS5's 2025. And the PS4 didn't have to deal with a world-wide pandemic. None of Sony's studios are reportedly behind where they should be. It just takes 5-7 years to develop big AAA games nowadays
Plus Bluepoint and Housemarque should be making the AAA jump this generation as well
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
2016
1. Uncharted 4
2. Ratchet remake
3. The Last Guardian
2017
1. Horizon 1
2. GT Sports
3. Uncharted Lost Legacy
4. Gravity Rush 2
2018
1. SOTC
2. GOW
3. Detroit
4. Spiderman
2019
1. Days Gone
2. Death Stranding
2020
1. Ghost Of Tsushima
2. TLOU2
3. Dreams
4. Spiderman Miles
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Msamy
Member
I am talking about sony first party studios not second and third parties studio's, also kojima , rockstar, ubisoft and many other studios are gonna release true current gen (ps5 exclusive or multiplatform) titles in the remaining months of 2024 and next year.
rhodesianshepard
Banned
You do realize the PS4 generation started in 2013, right? and I was referring to big AAA releases.
Also, you can't be a graphics snob and then bitch about games taking too long to develop. It doesn't compute
GymWolf
Member
They are not low enough.
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ChiefDada
Member
I'm curious to see how far they can push the Astro game. I wouldn't mind a platform game with visuals closer to recent Super Mario movies. I am less interested in Concord since it is first-person pov but still curious about visuals.
NVM
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yh wolverine was set as 2026 game so they have nothing this year. Death stranding next year. Wolverine the year after and maybe ghost of tsushima then nd in 2027 and gg in 2028.
If they are skipping a showcase this year it all but confirms that these studios are no where close to releasing these games. Doing a small state of play focusing on vr and non AAA releases this year is proof of that.
Best we can hope for are Horizon remaster And venom dlc next year. But they won’t look next Gen.
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Msamy
Member
I doubt that they will use rtgi in upcoming astro game but if they ended using it we sure will got some good graphics in that game
Msamy
Member
I think if horizon remaster are really under development, i think it will have true next gen graphics if Guerrilla making it using the latest version of decima which used in ds2.
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GymWolf
Member
Nah, they are gonna make another cheap remake like they did with tlou1 to push horizon serial tv.
And tbh, it's better this way, it's a tragedy to waste even a 3 legged dog to work on an horizon 1 remake, the game is not nearly old enough to get a remaster.
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ChiefDada
Member
Ghost is likely next year. And they aren't skipping 2024 showcase, they're just waiting to show everything on PS5 Pro. Fine with me since I long since sold my PS5 and am waiting for Pro release to continue gaming.
Msamy
Member
It will be really disappointing if they ended making in same same way That ND Did with tlou1 remake and waste 2 years in a remake with ps4 graphics .
Msamy
Member
What will you do if they not shown any game from their lbig first parties studio's in ps5 pro event ?
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GymWolf
Member
I mean, it would be hilarious if sony best game in term of graphic would be a remaster of a 2017 game...
I just don't see this happening, especially because even if they have to push the serial, horizon is nowhere as big as tlou and robodinobot are harder to make palatable for the masses compared to a simple zombie story with an ugly kid and a brash dude.
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Msamy
Member
If they didn't show anything this year ,90% It will ended like that and we won't have other than good looking horizon remaster(if it truly under development, ) from sony first party studios until 2026- 2027
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
nah. the rumors said they are using the HFW graphics upgrades.
It would be cool if they got RTGI,reflections and shadows in there along with mesh shader or nanite support but lets face it, this is Sony we are talking about. it will be like the TLOU1 remake upgrade. Not a single next gen feature in sight.
I am hoping that we at least get the pre-downgraded HFW reveal trailer. That trailer looks way better than the final game in lighting, asset quality, and draw distance.
lol ever the optimist. that studio isnt known for pushing graphics. The Japan studio was shut down and they were the ones who made The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2 and helped with Demon Souls remake. Those guys, the real graphics talent in Japan is gone.
Besides, the Sony CEO said that they have no AAA games releasing this year so this will be a quick and dirty budget title. Dont expect Mario CG graphics or scale of Mario Odyssey. it will be the same native 4k 60 fps last gen looking game like astro bot.
ChiefDada
Member
Well that won't happen but even still, that's the beauty of PS5 Pro. While I mostly look forward to new games, there are many prior releases that I want to revisit for better RT and higher IQ. Namely Returnal, FFXVI (held out on DLC until Pro release), and SM2. Long shot wish is for them to give RT patch for GoW Ragnarok or related DLC with RT.
ChiefDada
Member
Lol you're probably right. But hey I gotta be optimistic. I'm not getting any younger and slowly coming to the realization that PS5/Pro might be my last console/generation.
DanielG165
Member
I’m curious to see what Sony brings next year for their AAA games, though I feel like the PS5 Pro will ultimately be a glorified GTA 6 machine for a majority of people, myself included.
Audiophile
Member
Finger's crossed they surprise us with it being Guerrilla rather than ND. I'm not big on the idea of a Zero Dawn remake given how solid the title is already and resources likely being better spent elsewhere; but if they could use it as a test bed for RT & Virtualised Geometry -- along with the DS2 collab -- then it might be worth it. Though I think then that it might take the wow factor away from Horizon 3 which I hope to be a significant step up.
Msamy
Member
95 % Horizon 3 may end as cross or next gen title
Msamy
Member
Can't wait for gta vi rockstar never disappointing me
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
New Dragon Age screenshots.
Like the last one, but always skeptical of pre-release (or even pre-trailer) PR images.
GymWolf
Member
I'm sorry you think these pics are that impressive to be bullshot?
DanielG165
Member
He just said he was skeptical, though I don’t find them to be SUPER impressive myself. They’re still quite pretty though.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They look clean and like a cross between a render and art.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You know that praise legitimately means something because it's NXGamer praising an Xbox game, that shit is rarer than a blue moon.
Oppoi
Member
It's all thanks to the Unreal Engine. That's what this is all about. Xbox is still dying you know.You know that praise legitimately means something because it's NXGamer praising an Xbox game, that shit is rarer than a blue moon.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
DanielG165
Member
Legitimately lol. You know the damn thing looks good when NXGamer gushes over it, and it’s not a PlayStation game.You know that praise legitimately means something because it's NXGamer praising an Xbox game, that shit is rarer than a blue moon.
EDIT: Challenging the above comment would be absolutely pointless; it’s so inane and nonsensical that it’s not worth the effort lol.
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CamHostage
Member
I really believe 3Lateral’s 4D mL system for scanning/rigging character faces also elevates the entire project.
50,000 Scans -
Projects — 3Lateral
3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productionswww.3lateral.com
Effectively, the most visually impressive projects in gaming right now. I believe a lot of that has to do with the incredible character models.
Dude, you have got to calm down with pinning 3Lateral as the great keymaster to unleashing the future of character graphics....
Most of these developers you mention as needing to get on the 3Lateral money train have already been working with 3Lateral for the better part of a decade (as has been Ninja Theory on Hellblade 1,) and some of them worked with predecessor/partner studios Cubic Motion or Image Metrics before then and have even more history with this lineage. Many of the big studios have worked with them (including a few shitty studios with a lot of money,) and soon everybody will have worked with 3Lateral because Epic bought them and they are the chief architects of MetaHumans. 3Lateral is not the master of unlocking; you can right now make a MetaHuman with much of the same foundational facial rigging as what made Senua. There will be shitty-looking games made with the 3Lateral "4D ML rig" (well not many, because it's an expensive process to have them do custom work, but we'll get some stuff like Rockay City along the way.) It will be the studios with top-tier, expensive staffers spending large amounts of time and development research, as is the case with Ninja Theory, that these models will look great in gameplay. It's another tool; it's not the one tool to rule them all.
Projects — 3Lateral
3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productions
Also, I'm not sure if you specifically are referring to "4D ML rigs" as the capture rigs or the rigged models (different things, and both are getting used at various points in the video conversation,), but it's probably worth clearing up the idea that 4D is something that's "1D better" than what everybody else does...
Basically what they're saying is that they're mocapping live action as a facial scan*. What you get from the 4D scanning process is exactly what a character would do across a specific point of time. That's great for Hellblade, being so scripted, or cutscenes of games, but you want to be able to go beyond just the details of that one set of actions. You don't want to "mocap a every fight" in most games the way Hellblade does because then you end up with the same general fight actions played out in a button press. MetaHuman Animator can then blend and define motions (Hellblade still has I believe some interactivity in fight animations, but it's mostly about timing and distance, which works for its close-combat singular encounters), and you can grab out (or train on) specific gestures or body tendencies with a 4D scan process. The process is all about giving a computer a lot of data to understand the actor, but it has to go beyond the one recording scan. That's part of the value of the 4D scan too, feeding it into machine-learning algorithms and finding specific motions to link or save for further use, but there's a lot of work afterwards if you actually want to have an interactive game character, not just a digital actor. What you ultimately want is for the digital actor to do something just like the actor would without the actor needing to record that move.
So the "4D" scan data is great for all the nuances it captures of motion (and also of assuming the musculature to make that motion,) but it's not going to make the character more detailed, rather more nuanced in specific motions. You can take this high-fidelity, time-recorded capture data and map it onto a cartoon avatar just as easily.
(*These talks kind of confuse what 3Lateral defines specifically as a "4D scan", there can be a couple of versions of how to do it and how many sessions beyond the main mocap performance are included, but I would assume "4D scan" also means a session of gestures to train the model. So you make some funny faces and blink and gesture, and enough of that movement recorded lets the computer train itself how it's supposed to get from point A to point B in 3D when it's going from neutral to frowny-face, even though it's also going off the mocap recording.)
Find out how a talented team used MetaHuman Animator to create ‘Blue Dot’
Find out how MetaHuman Animator enables teams to create stunning cinematics using a creative on-set filmmaking process.
www.unrealengine.com
BTW, you can do an amateur version of their scanning process at home. (Well, it'd be more of a "3D" scan since you probably don't have two cameras to tape to a helmet for stereography, so you're missing the "D" of dimensionality.) Live Link Face is Epic's facial capture app for capturing footage to animate a MetaHuman, at home or in a studio. Your work probably won't turn out as good, because it won't be done with prosumer cams and won't have 80 people working 5 years on perfecting it and implementing the details, but you can map it onto a similar MetaHuman rig as what Ninja Theory works with.
New Live Link Face iOS App now available for real-time facial capture with Unreal Engine
Virtual production and livestream-ready real time facial animation has never been easier and more accessible thanks to our new iOS app - Live Link Face for Unreal Engine
www.unrealengine.com
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Bojji
Member
I'm playing through HL2 right now (for like 0.45h at night, rest of my time is dedicated to P3R) and yeah, game looks great but I don't see anything really mindblowing and above some games we had before.
Fort Solis is very similar (UE5 too) and looks almost as good (it also tries to run 60FPS on PS5). FS has a lot of lumen artifacts ("Christmas lights"), HL2 avoided it by not having many dynamic lights (mostly sun) but both games are in the same ballpark when it comes to GFX (IMO). I think I'm just not very impressed by UE5 in general, Lumen is very unstable and create a lot of issues, something I have not seen in Metro Exodus for example (RTGI).
Fort Solis is very similar (UE5 too) and looks almost as good (it also tries to run 60FPS on PS5). FS has a lot of lumen artifacts ("Christmas lights"), HL2 avoided it by not having many dynamic lights (mostly sun) but both games are in the same ballpark when it comes to GFX (IMO). I think I'm just not very impressed by UE5 in general, Lumen is very unstable and create a lot of issues, something I have not seen in Metro Exodus for example (RTGI).
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
As someone whose platinum'd the game, I respectfully disagree. Fort Solis doesn't look anywhere near as good as Hellblade 2.
For starters, the main character(s) are porcelain like up-close and have maybe 1/10th the detail HB2's have.
The general environmental quality is also comparably worse and the scope is even narrower than HB2. It is quite literally a walking simulator that doesn't even have any action / combat interludes in the middle like HB2.
![img]](https://i.imgur.com/fRH0Pnp.jpg/img])
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Oppoi
Member
Okay for real I don't actually dislike Ninja Theory but users like you trick me into making these kinds of posts. You're good, I guess that's why I can't ever log onto the forum without you being there in the moment posting. You're the snake in the grass.
Lethal01
Member
I totally agree, it exceeds tons of prerendered CGI from the early 2000s
CamHostage
Member
I personally wouldn't really like to know, given that I don't want games to go this linear, pre-defined route outside of some very specific projects. Ninja Theory crafted another achievement in its sequel, and there are a few design studios working in the adventure or experimental genre who could do interesting interactive work on this template, but I don't know that it would be a positive if this pushed publishers to invest in a slew of "Hellblade'likes".
...But also, it would be basically be Until Dawn. That's generally what that game was: a lot of recorded performance capture (by 3Lateral partner Cubic Motion, now absorbed into one) and a lot of scripted encounters stitched with interactive play in a generally linear (albeit branching) experience, made using Decima.
Until Dawn — Projects — 3Lateral
3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productions
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
JCreasy
Member
Dude, you have got to calm down with pinning 3Lateral as the great keymaster to unleashing the future of character graphics....
Most of these developers you mention as needing to get on the 3Lateral money train have already been working with 3Lateral for the better part of a decade (as has been Ninja Theory on Hellblade 1,) and some of them worked with predecessor/partner studios Cubic Motion or Image Metrics before then and have even more history with this lineage. Many of the big studios have worked with them (including a few shitty studios with a lot of money,) and soon everybody will have worked with 3Lateral because Epic bought them and they are the chief architects of MetaHumans. 3Lateral is not the master of unlocking; you can right now make a MetaHuman with much of the same foundational facial rigging as what made Senua. There will be shitty-looking games made with the 3Lateral "4D ML rig" (well not many, because it's an expensive process to have them do custom work, but we'll get some stuff like Rockay City along the way.) It will be the studios with top-tier, expensive staffers spending large amounts of time and development research, as is the case with Ninja Theory, that these models will look great in gameplay. It's another tool; it's not the one tool to rule them all.
Projects — 3Lateral
3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productions
Also, I'm not sure if you specifically are referring to "4D ML rigs" as the capture rigs or the rigged models (different things, and both are getting used at various points in the video conversation,), but it's probably worth clearing up the idea that 4D is something that's "1D better" than what everybody else does...
Basically what they're saying is that they're mocapping live action as a facial scan*. What you get from the 4D scanning process is exactly what a character would do across a specific point of time. That's great for Hellblade, being so scripted, or cutscenes of games, but you want to be able to go beyond just the details of that one set of actions. You don't want to "mocap a every fight" in most games the way Hellblade does because then you end up with the same general fight actions played out in a button press. MetaHuman Animator can then blend and define motions (Hellblade still has I believe some interactivity in fight animations, but it's mostly about timing and distance, which works for its close-combat singular encounters), and you can grab out (or train on) specific gestures or body tendencies with a 4D scan process. The process is all about giving a computer a lot of data to understand the actor, but it has to go beyond the one recording scan. That's part of the value of the 4D scan too, feeding it into machine-learning algorithms and finding specific motions to link or save for further use, but there's a lot of work afterwards if you actually want to have an interactive game character, not just a digital actor. What you ultimately want is for the digital actor to do something just like the actor would without the actor needing to record that move.
So the "4D" scan data is great for all the nuances it captures of motion (and also of assuming the musculature to make that motion,) but it's not going to make the character more detailed, rather more nuanced in specific motions. You can take this high-fidelity, time-recorded capture data and map it onto a cartoon avatar just as easily.
(*These talks kind of confuse what 3Lateral defines specifically as a "4D scan", there can be a couple of versions of how to do it and how many sessions beyond the main mocap performance are included, but I would assume "4D scan" also means a session of gestures to train the model. So you make some funny faces and blink and gesture, and enough of that movement recorded lets the computer train itself how it's supposed to get from point A to point B in 3D when it's going from neutral to frowny-face, even though it's also going off the mocap recording.)
Find out how a talented team used MetaHuman Animator to create ‘Blue Dot’
Find out how MetaHuman Animator enables teams to create stunning cinematics using a creative on-set filmmaking process.
BTW, you can do an amateur version of their 4D scan process at home. (Well, it'd be more of a "3D" scan since you probably don't have two cameras to tape to a helmet in stereo, so you're missing the "D" of dimension".) Live Link Face is Epic's facial capture app for capturing footage to animate a MetaHuman, at home or in a studio. Your work probably won't turn out as good, because it won't be done with prosumer cams and won't have 80 people working 5 years on perfecting it and implementing the details, but you can map it onto a similar MetaHuman rig as what Ninja Theory works with.
New Live Link Face iOS App now available for real-time facial capture with Unreal Engine
Virtual production and livestream-ready real time facial animation has never been easier and more accessible thanks to our new iOS app - Live Link Face for Unreal Engine
I think I get what they're saying at this point.
What I'M saying is that those high fidelity character models in the games I listed make those games look truly "next-gen." For me, at least. And I don't think it's a coincidence that they're all using 3Lateral's 4D service offering in these most recent projects.
And yes, of course talent matters. I get that. I’m seeing amazing results when talented devs use this particular tool.
Can you point me to a studio who’s tools have produced characters that match or exceed what 3Lateral has helped create? Let's compare.
Clearly the talent that works with these tool believe in 3Lateral’s offering. Just look at the results.
The first thing I see in the trailers that blow me way are those characters. That elevator scene in the first Death Stranding 2 trailer with Léa Seydoux was almost indistinguishable from live action. The characters in the 1943 trailer look full CG, and at times, live action in some instances. They had to fly the camera around to convince it was real time.
Interestingly, Horizon Forbidden West and Spider-Man took advantage of the 3D service offering from 3Lateral. Solid characters of course, but distinctly behind the characters produced with 4D. Clearly the tool helps create richer, high fidelity characters. When talented artists get their hands on this system, the results are stunning.
BTW, I’m completely fine with games only being able to render this level of fidelity for cutscenes. As a practical matter, it still elevates the immersive experience. Watching real-time cutscenes with characters that look this good feels like magic. I’m fine with gameplay LODs with lower fidelity (until Nanite for skeletal meshes solves that for us).
There are several components to the service they provide. Based on what it says on the site, the 4D offering is comprised of the scan and the ml based rigging.
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ZehDon
Member
Sony's already stated they're targeting two major releases a year - including third party exclusives. They've already had Final Fantasy VII this year, meaning they've got one more in the pipe, which I'd wager would be Silent Hill 2. The rest will be small titles released whenever. Tune in next year, folks.