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[Audiophile]

When I got my PS3 I still had a 14" JVC Portable CRT for 6mths. Occasionally I'd get some time on the living room Matsui 27" 4:3 CRT.

Got a Sony Bravia KDL32D3000U in around Oct '07 and it was a revelation. Had been playing Motorstorm and R6 Vegas up until that point on the CRT TVs and the 768p Bravia LCD was a big step up for them. Then a month later: COD4 & AC!

That TV is still going strong now. I tried my PS5 on there a few years back just to see what new games look like on it; and it's not as flattering as my memory of it. It's all just dull and soft and flat looking.

 

[ckstine]

I had a somewhat similar experience. I went from playing gta 4 on my old sony trinitron (may she rest in piece) to a new 1080p screen and I realized how fucking ugly it was... it went from something that felt real to like a weird brown bag of pixels. That's something I want this gen or next gen, accurate CRT simulation.

 

[Lethal01]

I had a somewhat similar experience. I went from playing gta 4 on my old sony trinitron (may she rest in piece) to a new 1080p screen and I realized how fucking ugly it was... it went from something that felt real to like a weird brown bag of pixels. That's something I want this gen or next gen, accurate CRT simulation.

There are some great customizable Crt shaders you can use with reshade/retroarch.
Can't give you CRT motion clarity though. needs atleast 4k to be really good

 

[eNT1TY]

Feels like a paid promo if i didn't know any better.

 

[RaduN]

There are some great customizable Crt shaders you can use with reshade/retroarch.
Can't give you CRT motion clarity though. needs atleast 4k to be really good

Resolution will never give you crt motion clarity.

However, bfi (black frame insertion) aims to do just that, though the feature is not 100% reliable yet.
The way it works is like this: you have a black frame inserted every other frame. So when you set your display to 120 hz, the 60 hz content will have minimal motion blur/trails/response time.

 

[Lethal01]

Resolution will never give you crt motion clarity.

However, bfi (black frame insertion) aims to do just that, though the feature is not 100% reliable yet.
The way it works is like this: you have a black frame inserted every other frame. So when you set your display to 120 hz, the 60 hz content will have minimal motion blur/trails/response time.

Yes, I know it well and use it regularly. has drawback on brightness which I can live with but still doesn't reach CRT level, it's decent though.

Usually, I just use a PC crt at 1440p with a CRT shader.

 

[RaduN]

Yes, I know it well and use it regularly. has drawback on brightness which I can live with but still doesn't reach CRT level, it's decent though.

Usually, I just use a PC crt at 1440p with a CRT shader.

Yeah, the libretro guys tried many approaches to bfi in order to mitigate the shortcomings. Even a grey frame insertion.

Try to also apply so shaders (you most likely did that already) and maybe you find a sweetspot.

 

[ckstine]

Yes, I know it well and use it regularly. has drawback on brightness which I can live with but still doesn't reach CRT level, it's decent though.

Usually, I just use a PC crt at 1440p with a CRT shader.

Idk, shaders just aren't there yet. They haven't quite figured out halation. I think the best way they could possibly go about doing it would be to simulate the light via path tracing, and then bake that into an alpha effect. I've seen similar stuff with high quality DoF.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Gameplay wise I agree. it's been a dud.

But graphically ive seen improvements that have made me sit there in awe. I understand that its mostly been incremental but there are times where all the new next enhancements come together to deliver truly CG quality visuals I never thought possible until we got to 40 tflops. But yeah, diminishing returns was a thing even with the PS4 generation in comparison to the massive leap we had going from PS2 to PS3. The asset quality and lighting upgrades were basically the main things we saw get improved going from PS3 to PS4 but it felt like a huge upgrade because so many PS3 games were open world and devoid of any detail. If you compare something linear like Uncharted 3 or Beyond to say AC Unity, it might not feel like a gargantuan leap either.

Remember this Beyond gif? It was used to show how PS4 games didnt really get a big boost either.

The desert levels in uncharted look on par with stuff we saw last gen.

Then there is this legendary battle in GOW.

Looks on par with ragnorak doesnt it?

My point is that it was incremental even back then, but we appreciated having insane visuals in open world games that we would typically only expect in linear games. This time around, the gap is smaller but they are fixing things like draw distance, level of detail, lighting accuracy and volumetrics. They dont pop out at you immediately but just go back and compare some early gen games and those incremental upgrades will become obvious and significant very quickly.

You brought up AC Unity. Look at the texture quality and LOD draw distance here. i used to post this shot as an example of amazing next gen graphics. Below that is an ugly screenshot from AC Origins. I think that game still looks stunning but it had these really bad issues with LOD transitions on foliage and just really poor lighting during transitions. You can see the same thing in Infamous and uncharted 4. Stuff like this should be resolved thanks to virtualized geometry, use of RTGI and other realtime GI solutions, and a way better use of volumetric effects that hide any flaws in those transitions. I think Spiderman 2 is a lazy ass game but even that game has done a lot of work on LOD transitions and draw distance despite relying upon baked lighting and normal maps. Avatar, Alan Wake, Hellblade and Star wars to a lesser extent go nuts with detail without sacrificing that draw distance and lighting flaws we saw in so many levels even in the best looking games of last gen.

Here are a couple more:

I think it comes down to engines and technology, as I have said multiple times in this very thread, to have CGI like visuals you need wayyyy more geometry and a GI system. These current engines struggle at this, except UE5 as of now. Hellblade 2 and The Matrix Awakens give me that “next gen” feel and look. Marvel 1943 also, all done on what engine? UE5.

 

[March Climber]

IIRC, matrix UE5 demo had 35k pedestrians being governed in realtime by their system. I think Rockstar with their 3000 devs probably have even better systems to handle the insane number of NPCs and NPC variety we saw at the beach and strip clubs. That said, with RDR2 and even GTA5, they had a lot of scripted stuff for pedestrians which is something no other dev can do.

What are your thoughts on Dynasty Warriors Origins?

 

[analog_future]

So I bought Suicide Squad as part of the Steam Sale, and it's definitely a good, if inconsistent, looking game. Sound design, animations, and combat are top notch as well. Shame that Rocksteady went the gaas route with this one, because they still clearly have the special sauce. Hopefully they are given the opportunity to create a AAA single player game next.

Some of my shots:

 

[Audiophile]

10yrs and 4mths old; released on a 1.8TF GCN GPU & a 1.6GHz Netbook CPU



Holds up insanely well when it comes to the overall image in motion. The particles alone honestly look better to me than most of the coarse, temporal artefact-ridden sludge we get now.

 

[mrqs]

10yrs and 4mths old; released on a 1.8TF GCN GPU & a 1.6GHz Netbook CPU



Holds up insanely well when it comes to the overall image in motion. The particles alone honestly look better to me than most of the coarse, temporal artefact-ridden sludge we get now.

Still one of the biggest highlights of last gen for me, and it came out in Feb 2024. Super impressive.

 

[GymWolf]

 

[analog_future]

10yrs and 4mths old; released on a 1.8TF GCN GPU & a 1.6GHz Netbook CPU



Holds up insanely well when it comes to the overall image in motion. The particles alone honestly look better to me than most of the coarse, temporal artefact-ridden sludge we get now.

It'd be fun to replay this one in 4K/60/HDR on PS5 (or PC!)

 

[MadchesterManc]

It'd be fun to replay this one in 4K/60/HDR on PS5 (or PC!)

I'm sure they updated the PS4 Infamous games with Pro upgrades so you can unlock the frame rate with a toggle and it uses checkerboard for 4K. Tried First Light on PS5 a while back and it looked great with HDR and was pretty much locked at 60

 

[Darsxx82]

So I bought Suicide Squad as part of the Steam Sale, and it's definitely in that tier of best looking games, alongside Hellblade II, Alan Wake II, and Avatar. Sound design, animations, and combat are top notch as well. Shame that Rocksteady went the gaas route with this one, because they still clearly have the special sauce. Hopefully they are given the opportunity to create a AAA single player game next.

Some of my shots:

The cinematics and facial animations are top notch. During the gameplay it is more inconsistent due to its Gaas nature intertwining great visual moments with others that are too uninspired.

That said, I agree, the game shows that Roksteady has very good graphic designers and that a future AAA SP game would surely not disappoint on a visual level.

 

[Portugeezer]

10yrs and 4mths old; released on a 1.8TF GCN GPU & a 1.6GHz Netbook CPU



Holds up insanely well when it comes to the overall image in motion. The particles alone honestly look better to me than most of the coarse, temporal artefact-ridden sludge we get now.

PS4 launch window delivered, visually. This and Killzone were stunning.

 

[Audiophile]

I'm sure they updated the PS4 Infamous games with Pro upgrades so you can unlock the frame rate with a toggle and it uses checkerboard for 4K. Tried First Light on PS5 a while back and it looked great with HDR and was pretty much locked at 60

Yeah, I recall booting up the original game in 2160CB HDR on my PS4 Pro after I got it and distinctly recall the framerate toggle. I'm pretty sure it'll run full tilt at 60fps on the PS5.

 

[SlimySnake]

10yrs and 4mths old; released on a 1.8TF GCN GPU & a 1.6GHz Netbook CPU



Holds up insanely well when it comes to the overall image in motion. The particles alone honestly look better to me than most of the coarse, temporal artefact-ridden sludge we get now.

it looks good up close. really dated from afar. sony studios all do this with their open world games. Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, even GoW. They prioritize near term detail while ubisoft studios make sure their games have great draw distance. But that means they dont look as good up close.

Honestly, i am tired of stuff like this and i hope sony studios fix this going forward.

 

[arkhamguy123]

it looks good up close. really dated from afar. sony studios all do this with their open world games. Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, even GoW. They prioritize near term detail while ubisoft studios make sure their games have great draw distance. But that means they dont look as good up close.

Honestly, i am tired of stuff like this and i hope sony studios fix this going forward.

All 6 of those screenshots combined don’t look as good as a random vista from red dead 2 hell Arkham knight mops the floor with those if you go stand on Wayne tower.

I don’t remember these sony exclusives looking that bad on a macro scale good lord. Spider man 1 and 2 are kinda free of this though to be fair. Standing on the one World Trade Center looking out is genuinely impressive with the city rendering

 

[KXVXII9X]

PS4 launch window delivered, visually. This and Killzone were stunning.

This is why I don't understand when people say this generation started out like the last. In the Launch Window we had Killzone Shadowfall, Infamous Second Son, Ryse: Son of Rome, Sunset Overdrive, Driveclub, and Knack. That gen started with some lookers.

 

[GymWolf]

How in the fuck was sunset overdrive a looker?

 

[reezoo]

Feels like a paid promo if i didn't know any better.

not that the game looks bad or anything but to me video gave the same vibes, feels like paid content.

 

[CamHostage]

I was probably too young to appreciate it, but I don't remember feeling anything special about the jump from SNES to N64 at the time, it just kind of happened and I accepted it. Obviously looking back, I can see how insane it was.

Looking back, that is insane, but if you read magazines from the time, it was not an unusual opinion that 3D wasn't a "leap", it was just different... until it started to manifest in new games impossible via 'old' sprites and bitmaps.

We had this Slow-Boiling Frog effect where the graphics were so abstract in the early days and the gameplay was so rudimentary and hard to handle (plus 2D visual quality was at an apex with high resolution detail and computer-assisted modeling) that 3D games were often written off as "same old thing but now in 3D". Now we see where the games were going, where the size and depth of the world would make a difference, where a 3D collision box and a self-defined model with autonomy (unlike a sprite, which can only switch to other sprites when acted upon to show results of action) can create a character and change gameplay... we see the leap, it it was all these little hops that took us there and surprisingly we didn't know how far we had really come until we first looked back.

 

[KXVXII9X]

How in the fuck was sunset overdrive a looker?

It clearly was a step up from similar open worlds from the previous gen like Infamous 2. I didn't look at the game and go, "Hmm, I think this looks like a crossgen game."

 

[GymWolf]

It clearly was a step up from similar open worlds from the previous gen like Infamous 2. I didn't look at the game and go, "Hmm, I think this looks like a crossgen game."

I mean yeah but it's definitely out of a place in a list with inf3, kz sf, ryse and driveclub, those are actual lookers, it looked better than a ps3 game but it was pretty bad as a nextgen only game, also it was running at like 900p on the xone.

 

[SlimySnake]

All 6 of those screenshots combined don’t look as good as a random vista from red dead 2 hell Arkham knight mops the floor with those if you go stand on Wayne tower.

I don’t remember these sony exclusives looking that bad on a macro scale good lord. Spider man 1 and 2 are kinda free of this though to be fair. Standing on the one World Trade Center looking out is genuinely impressive with the city rendering

Yes. Spiderman games are an exception. Sp2 especially has a fantastic draw distance but that’s because they don’t have to render huge foliage rich vistas like other Sony games. Those buildings are far easier to replace with 3d models from 2d cut outs than trees from what i understand. You can see this in ratchet where the draw distance is great in the city levels and completely falls apart in the desert level with the red trees. They resort to blurring out the background like in horizon.

Oh and Spider-Man 2 buildings don’t look next Gen up close. Far behind cyberpunk in comparison.

So I bought Suicide Squad as part of the Steam Sale, and it's definitely in that tier of best looking games, alongside Hellblade II, Alan Wake II, and Avatar. Sound design, animations, and combat are top notch as well. Shame that Rocksteady went the gaas route with this one, because they still clearly have the special sauce. Hopefully they are given the opportunity to create a AAA single player game next.

Some of my shots:

Cutscenes look way better than gameplay. It’s fairly good looking game overall, but firmly in the last Gen camp. Star Wars and callisto are far more next Gen looking during gameplay.

That said, the draw distance is very impressive in this game as well but again just like Spider-Man 2, the actual building assets are just last Gen quality.

 

[Hunnybun]

Looking back, that is insane, but if you read magazines from the time, it was not an unusual opinion that 3D wasn't a "leap", it was just different... until it started to manifest in new games impossible via 'old' sprites and bitmaps.

We had this Slow-Boiling Frog effect where the graphics were so abstract in the early days and the gameplay was so rudimentary and hard to handle (plus 2D visual quality was at an apex with high resolution detail and computer-assisted modeling) that 3D games were often written off as "same old thing but now in 3D". Now we see where the games were going, where the size and depth of the world would make a difference, where a 3D collision box and a self-defined model with autonomy (unlike a sprite, which can only switch to other sprites when acted upon to show results of action) can create a character and change gameplay... we see the leap, it it was all these little hops that took us there and surprisingly we didn't know how far we had really come until we first looked back.

I think a big part of why Mario 64 felt like such a leap was simply that it wasn't ugly. N64 had different challenges, but at the very least the graphics weren't horrible, pixelated, shimmering messes like we had on the other consoles. You combine that with the absolutely quantum leap in game design, and for me it's still - and almost certainly always will be now - by far the single most impressive game reveal I've ever seen. It's hard to communicate to younger people just how incredible it was.

 

[SlimySnake]

Unreal engine 5 is amazing.

Yes it’s a cutscene likely prerendered but a random dude made this.

 

[Lethal01]

Unreal engine 5 is amazing.

Yes it’s a cutscene likely prerendered but a random dude made this.

A 16 year old made this, artist are amazing, they are just using Unreal.

 

[Balducci30]

A 16 year old made this, artist are amazing, they are just using Unreal.

Blender is a bit different than unreal tho right?

 

[Lethal01]

Blender is a bit different than unreal tho right?

They have differences., but we are talking prerendered scenes so what are the differences that you think matter?

 

[Balducci30]

They have differences., but we are talking prerendered scenes so what are the differences that you think matter?

Isn’t unreal way faster and technically not supposed to match blender in that way for cg animation?

 

[Lethal01]

Isn’t unreal way faster and technically not supposed to match blender in that way for cg animation?

When you use Unreal to pre-render something, you are making it do the same thing as Blender does. Where Unreal is impressive is in its real time rendering, but that's not whats being demonstrated

 

[CGNoire]

Yeah pre-rendered UE5 doesnt impress me.

Shits basicly 3DSMax by a different name.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ive been playing MLB the show over the summer. It's last year's version but its basically the same in terms of graphics improvements. Looks last gen as fuck.

Meanwhile, Madden and EA in general get a lot of shit but every year they keep updating the character models, animations and at least try and use physics in the next gen version of both Fifa and Madden.

Honestly, it looks next gen compared to the trash sony puts out in their baseball games.

Here is the reveal trailer thats getting downvoted by madden fans because its not different enough.



Meanwhile, MLB the show and Sony is ok with their character models looking like ps3 era characters.

 

[GymWolf]

For a sport game with a lot going on on screen they are not half bad.

 

[SlimySnake]

Their college football game looks even better. Wow, the amount of work they put in to capture all the different college crowds and bands.

 

[mrqs]

Unreal engine 5 is amazing.

Yes it’s a cutscene likely prerendered but a random dude made this.

This looks insane!

 

[analog_future]

Ive been playing MLB the show over the summer. It's last year's version but its basically the same in terms of graphics improvements. Looks last gen as fuck.

Meanwhile, Madden and EA in general get a lot of shit but every year they keep updating the character models, animations and at least try and use physics in the next gen version of both Fifa and Madden.

Honestly, it looks next gen compared to the trash sony puts out in their baseball games.

Here is the reveal trailer thats getting downvoted by madden fans because its not different enough.



Meanwhile, MLB the show and Sony is ok with their character models looking like ps3 era characters.

Yep, Madden NFL 24 looks damn good on PC, and 25 is looking like a significant jump

 

[SlimySnake]

Some shots in the star wars outlaws e3 trailer look fantastic.

I wonder how much of this is faked inengine footage. They did a lot of these third person cutscenes for Avatar trailers that were not in the final game because the final game only had first person cutscenes. its so fucking stupid to make these games based on cinematic IPs and make cutscenes first person.

 

[Msamy]

Some shots in the star wars outlaws e3 trailer look fantastic.

I wonder how much of this is faked inengine footage. They did a lot of these third person cutscenes for Avatar trailers that were not in the final game because the final game only had first person cutscenes. its so fucking stupid to make these games based on cinematic IPs and make cutscenes first person.

That e3 30 min gameplay video have some sections with same graphics fidelity of that gif

 

[Msamy]

Just watched space marine 2 last gameplay video looks really amazing and also rise my expectations for gears 6

 

[Rain432]

played space marines 2 yesterday at a convention and visually its going to be one of the best for sure!

 

[Jesb]

Sports have been dragging in the mud this gen. I hope we see something that shows much more.

 

[CGNoire]

Ive been playing MLB the show over the summer. It's last year's version but its basically the same in terms of graphics improvements. Looks last gen as fuck.

Meanwhile, Madden and EA in general get a lot of shit but every year they keep updating the character models, animations and at least try and use physics in the next gen version of both Fifa and Madden.

Honestly, it looks next gen compared to the trash sony puts out in their baseball games.

Here is the reveal trailer thats getting downvoted by madden fans because its not different enough.



Meanwhile, MLB the show and Sony is ok with their character models looking like ps3 era characters.

Looked so good I almost didnt notice that "Game Engine" Disclaimer.....almost.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is so frustrating. Starfield has that next gen physics tech we have all been wanting this gen but their designers do absolutely fucking nothing with it.



Zelda ToTK does so many amazing things with its physics system which is very limited in comparison to this. All their dungeons and most of their shrines feature these physics puzzles. Starfield couldve simply used them in combat. There is zero g segments in the game. Make all the chairs, desks, computers and other items in the ships actual objects and zero g levels wouldve come alive. Let me use my force powers to grab and throw objects at least. let me open up holes in ship hulls so the space vacuum sucks out enemies and other objects.

But no, they basically made a dialogue game on purpose with vast empty worlds with nothing to do.

Problem isnt the tech or hardware, it's the devs. I was playing the First Descendant and despite being a UE5 game, it looks fairly last gen. Some minor improvements here and there in the lighting but overall i was like this is it? Devs still have to put in the effort to get the most out of UE5.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah basic ass havik is super impressive, it's not like you could do the same thing in oblivion woth an editor to sapwn objects like you do in sf.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I think it comes down to engines and technology, as I have said multiple times in this very thread, to have CGI like visuals you need wayyyy more geometry and a GI system. These current engines struggle at this, except UE5 as of now. Hellblade 2 and The Matrix Awakens give me that “next gen” feel and look. Marvel 1943 also, all done on what engine? UE5.

I would say the big leap between PS3 to PS4 was PBR. They really started to be able to sell materials. Metals and cloth actually looked good for the first time which lead to some ridiculously good looking character models (subsurface scattering in cut scenes was also a big upgrade for human faces especially) and any game with industrial settings or with steel weapons and cars etc. Faked GI bounce was also huge in early PS4 games like Driveclub and Uncharted 4.

There will definitely be games like we’ve seen already with Hellblade II aswell as Marvel and GTA VI in the future that really push visuals but honestly I expect 80% of PS5 games to look like really polished top tier PS4 games except running at 60fps with much better IQ and some RT. Spider-Man 2 versus the original game is a good way to illustrate my point.

Companies don’t want to spend the extra money for tiny (and for most consumers) insignificant visual improvements. What was it Insomniac said? Was it worth the extra $100 million in development when you look at both Spider-Man games side by side? I’d say from a business perspective most definitely not. If you asked most people what they felt was better about the sequel they would almost certainly say either the increased speed of Spider-Man or the Wing suit imo.

We all want better textures, better lighting, more geometry, better facial animation, more physics interactions but the cost to get there is absolutely sickening and if they’re not careful that particular market for cinematic games will collapse in on itself with games needing 20 million sales to just break even on the development and marketing costs.

If it’s a choice between what PS5 has been currently pushing at 60fps or trying to make all open World games look like Hellblade II and it collapses I will gladly take what we have as much as it pains me to say. At the end of the day it’s a business and until generative A.I. can take years off AAA development that’s the choice a lot of publishers and developers will have to make.