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[Pharaoh 117]

Go look at some Crysis physics videos from 2007. Hell, even Halo 2 had amazing physics at the time. It was so much fun putting a bunch of Ghosts together and seeing they explode in a chain reaction. Havoc is nothing new, although I'm sure it's more performant and accurate nowadays.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

This is so frustrating. Starfield has that next gen physics tech we have all been wanting this gen but their designers do absolutely fucking nothing with it.



Zelda ToTK does so many amazing things with its physics system which is very limited in comparison to this. All their dungeons and most of their shrines feature these physics puzzles. Starfield couldve simply used them in combat. There is zero g segments in the game. Make all the chairs, desks, computers and other items in the ships actual objects and zero g levels wouldve come alive. Let me use my force powers to grab and throw objects at least. let me open up holes in ship hulls so the space vacuum sucks out enemies and other objects.

But no, they basically made a dialogue game on purpose with vast empty worlds with nothing to do.

Problem isnt the tech or hardware, it's the devs. I was playing the First Descendant and despite being a UE5 game, it looks fairly last gen. Some minor improvements here and there in the lighting but overall i was like this is it? Devs still have to put in the effort to get the most out of UE5.

The 2012 mobile phone CPU downclocked by 50%, the 2015 Nvidia GPU downclocked by 30% and 3.5GB of the slowest ram ever consigned to silicon and it has two of the greatest games ever made that absolutely embarrass 95% of AAA games on consoles with 20x the compute in terms of physics systems. Only Nintendo lol.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Yeah basic ass havik is super impressive, it's not like you could do the same thing in oblivion woth an editor to sapwn objects like you do in sf.

The two Zelda games don’t use “basic ass havoc”. Yes they use Havok as a base but they literally spent a full year customising and optimising their physics system (on top of their customisations of it for Breath of the Wild) and in turn it actually spawned interesting gameplay mechanics and ideas just from thinking about what was possible once they had it all working on what is essentially a mid range mobile phone from 2015. They have a GDC talk about it up on YouTube. Nintendo very rarely lift the development curtain. It’s genuinely one of the most ridiculous accomplishments in game development history considering the hardware they were working with and how the finished game works so well with less bugs than the most bland, false, basic bitch Ubisoft paint by numbers open World games which have access to 20x the compute where almost the whole experience is a fake facade. CP2077 is a great example. The buildings in the city might aswell be paintings.

 

[GymWolf]

The two Zelda games don’t use “basic ass havoc”. Yes they use Havok as a base but they literally spent a full year customising and optimising their physics system (on top of their customisations of it for Breath of the Wild) and in turn it actually spawned interesting gameplay mechanics and ideas just from thinking about what was possible once they had it all working on what is essentially a mid range mobile phone from 2015. They have a GDC talk about it up on YouTube. Nintendo very rarely lift the development curtain. It’s genuinely one of the most ridiculous accomplishments in game development history considering the hardware they were working with and how the finished game works so well with less bugs than the most bland, false, basic bitch Ubisoft paint by numbers open World games which have access to 20x the compute where almost the whole experience is a fake facade. CP2077 is a great example. The buildings in the city might aswell be paintings.

I was talking about starfield.

I know that zelda are little miracles for running on a switch, especially tokt.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I would say the big leap between PS3 to PS4 was PBR. They really started to be able to sell materials. Metals and cloth actually looked good for the first time which lead to some ridiculously good looking character models (subsurface scattering in cut scenes was also a big upgrade for human faces especially) and any game with industrial settings or with steel weapons and cars etc. Faked GI bounce was also huge in early PS4 games like Driveclub and Uncharted 4.

There will definitely be games like we’ve seen already with Hellblade II aswell as Marvel and GTA VI in the future that really push visuals but honestly I expect 80% of PS5 games to look like really polished top tier PS4 games except running at 60fps with much better IQ and some RT. Spider-Man 2 versus the original game is a good way to illustrate my point.

Companies don’t want to spend the extra money for tiny (and for most consumers) insignificant visual improvements. What was it Insomniac said? Was it worth the extra $100 million in development when you look at both Spider-Man games side by side? I’d say from a business perspective most definitely not. If you asked most people what they felt was better about the sequel they would almost certainly say either the increased speed of Spider-Man or the Wing suit imo.

We all want better textures, better lighting, more geometry, better facial animation, more physics interactions but the cost to get there is absolutely sickening and if they’re not careful that particular market for cinematic games will collapse in on itself with games needing 20 million sales to just break even on the development and marketing costs.

If it’s a choice between what PS5 has been currently pushing at 60fps or trying to make all open World games look like Hellblade II and it collapses I will gladly take what we have as much as it pains me to say. At the end of the day it’s a business and until generative A.I. can take years off AAA development that’s the choice a lot of publishers and developers will have to make.

The budget is there, big AAAA studios DONT WANT TO fund games because of greed. New hardware is created for a reason. If this is the argument, we could have stop upgrading hardware years ago in 2020. Devs keep showing fake trailers like the Spiderman 2 trailer in 2021 and pretending it’s how the final game will look. Most devs are STILL using old engines without Nanite or Lumen like features. Games are honestly unimpressive to me today except a select few, they all have the PS4 look with 60fps and maybe some RT. Ugly games. We have consoles with 5x the power as last gen base consoles and games look too similar to last gen games. Hell, TLOU 2 and the Order 1886 look better than most PS5 games, 2015 and 2020 PS4 games. So far only about 10 games impress me graphics wise this generation. The rest are PS4 games with 60fps and an unnecessary native 4k image eating up resources, when upscaling is very good today…

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The budget is there, big AAAA studios DONT WANT TO fund games because of greed. New hardware is created for a reason. If this is the argument, we could have stop upgrading hardware years ago in 2020. Devs keep showing fake trailers like the Spiderman 2 trailer in 2021 and pretending it’s how the final game will look. Most devs are STILL using old engines without Nanite or Lumen like features. Games are honestly unimpressive to me today except a select few, they all have the PS4 look with 60fps and maybe some RT. Ugly games. We have consoles with 5x the power as last gen base consoles and games look too similar to last gen games. Hell, TLOU 2 and the Order 1886 look better than most PS5 games, 2015 and 2020 PS4 games. So far only about 10 games impress me graphics wise this generation. The rest are PS4 games with 60fps and an unnecessary native 4k image eating up resources, when upscaling is very good today…

I understand. The issue then becomes hardware because even if they were going to spend the money, PS5 wasn’t the standard 10x generational leap over PS4 Pro so it’s no surprise it’s games don’t visually blow things like TLOU II away when running on PS4 Pro.

The big improvements this gen were the CPU and SSD. PS5 Pro will bring more RT performance and better IQ but it will be PS6 before we get another leap big enough for a genuine generational leap on screen again. But they have to be willing to spend the money or the hardware matters not.

 

[SlimySnake]

The budget is there, big AAAA studios DONT WANT TO fund games because of greed. New hardware is created for a reason. If this is the argument, we could have stop upgrading hardware years ago in 2020. Devs keep showing fake trailers like the Spiderman 2 trailer in 2021 and pretending it’s how the final game will look. Most devs are STILL using old engines without Nanite or Lumen like features. Games are honestly unimpressive to me today except a select few, they all have the PS4 look with 60fps and maybe some RT. Ugly games. We have consoles with 5x the power as last gen base consoles and games look too similar to last gen games. Hell, TLOU 2 and the Order 1886 look better than most PS5 games, 2015 and 2020 PS4 games. So far only about 10 games impress me graphics wise this generation. The rest are PS4 games with 60fps and an unnecessary native 4k image eating up resources, when upscaling is very good today…

you say 5x more power but in terms of actual computing power, the ps5 is almost 8x more powerful if you look at more than just the tflops. AMD improved efficiencies in their architecture going to polaris from gcn1 that was in ps4 and then again when going to rdna 2. those 10.23 tflops are essentially 15.3 tflops.

When you take into account the xbox one which was only 1.3 tflops and was essentially the base for last gen games running most games like ryse, rise of tomb raider and rdr2 at 900p, the 12.1 tflops series x is 9x more powerful.

you are right, they just slap on RT and update the fps ticker to 60 fps and call it a day most of the time. some devs like ubisoft massive do put in the effort filling in their world with extreme amount of detail and rtgi but the rest of the devs are basically doing what they were doing in 2018 on pc. Straight ports of ps4/x1 games with some rt effects that completely tank the framerate forcing everyone to disable them anyway.

I think in 2021, the Halo Infinite downgrade, playground game's decision to go last gen with Forza horizon 5, GG, PD and SSM doing the same with their games in 2022 basically took 5 of the best graphics studios out of the graphics discussion altogether. GG did rather well with horizon but the rest definitely phoned it in. By this time last gen, all those studios had released games already aside from PD which would release their game in october of PS4's 4th year. this time around, we literally havent seen their next gen only games, let alone play them. a fuck up of epic proportions.

 

[arkhamguy123]

you say 5x more power but in terms of actual computing power, the ps5 is almost 8x more powerful if you look at more than just the tflops. AMD improved efficiencies in their architecture going to polaris from gcn1 that was in ps4 and then again when going to rdna 2. those 10.23 tflops are essentially 15.3 tflops.

When you take into account the xbox one which was only 1.3 tflops and was essentially the base for last gen games running most games like ryse, rise of tomb raider and rdr2 at 900p, the 12.1 tflops series x is 9x more powerful.

you are right, they just slap on RT and update the fps ticker to 60 fps and call it a day most of the time. some devs like ubisoft massive do put in the effort filling in their world with extreme amount of detail and rtgi but the rest of the devs are basically doing what they were doing in 2018 on pc. Straight ports of ps4/x1 games with some rt effects that completely tank the framerate forcing everyone to disable them anyway.

I think in 2021, the Halo Infinite downgrade, playground game's decision to go last gen with Forza horizon 5, GG, PD and SSM doing the same with their games in 2022 basically took 5 of the best graphics studios out of the graphics discussion altogether. GG did rather well with horizon but the rest definitely phoned it in. By this time last gen, all those studios had released games already aside from PD which would release their game in october of PS4's 4th year. this time around, we literally havent seen their next gen only games, let alone play them. a fuck up of epic proportions.

Games like demon souls and Spider-Man 2 impress me for next gen but in a rather mild way. I find myself wanting MORE! I want that Order 1886, second son, driveclub, shadow fall, last of us 2, last guardian (mainly trico himself), holy SHIT this is unreal generational transition feeling again

 

[Schmendrick]

I want that holy SHIT this is unreal generational transition feeling again

I can`t imagine that we`ll ever get that again. The necessary jumps in computing power for that have become absolutely bonkers and definitely unattainable within console budget limits.
At least as long as we are talking only about visuals. I mean what is there beyond full pathtracing that doesn`t simply boil down to budget?

 

[SlimySnake]

Games like demon souls and Spider-Man 2 impress me for next gen but in a rather mild way. I find myself wanting MORE! I want that Order 1886, second son, driveclub, shadow fall, last of us 2, last guardian (mainly trico himself), holy SHIT this is unreal generational transition feeling again

Hellblade 2 is the order 1886 of this gen. Avatar is the second son of this gen. No driveclub equivalent sadly with Turn10 and Criterion dropping the ball despite being given next gen only turns. Id say Callisto to me was that the KZSF moment despite being cross gen. I dont think ive been as consistently impressed with a game this gen.

The rest yeah, its been incremental so far because the best studios released massive last gen games 2 years into the gen.

Wait till next gen when these studios realize that they wont be able to ship a new next gen PS6 game until 2032-2033 after shipping their first PS5 game in 2027-2028. Just so stupid. Piss poor management of first party studios at both first party publishers. In an era where gaming is bigger than ever these publishers are cutting costs to maximize record profits even more. not realizing that they need to invest more into these games and studios. its insane to me that sony made cuts in insomniac after they sold 10 million copies in 3 months. you have a 20 million seller and instead of giving them more teams so they can get games out faster, they laid off people. just shocking.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I can`t imagine that we`ll ever get that again. The necessary jumps in computing power for that have become absolutely bonkers and definitely unattainable within console budget limits.
At least as long as we are talking only about visuals. I mean what is there beyond full pathtracing that doesn`t simply boil down to budget?

I think we have the power but not the will from devs

 

[CGNoire]

I can`t imagine that we`ll ever get that again. The necessary jumps in computing power for that have become absolutely bonkers and definitely unattainable within console budget limits.
At least as long as we are talking only about visuals. I mean what is there beyond full pathtracing that doesn`t simply boil down to budget?

Yep. The next "holy shit" moment will be about physics.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

it looks good up close. really dated from afar. sony studios all do this with their open world games. Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, even GoW. They prioritize near term detail while ubisoft studios make sure their games have great draw distance. But that means they dont look as good up close.

Honestly, i am tired of stuff like this and i hope sony studios fix this going forward.

It's because they need to update their god damned engines ...all of those games are last gen games at heart. Only UE5 has shown high detail at a distance ..perhaps Spiderman 2 does to a small degree but not really

Agree with what has been said it's a combination of greed and poor management that we're 4 years on and don't have next gem games from Sony. This industry is at its absolute greediness in general. They want to make just as much or more profit despite the economy. I think Sony management followed Nintendos business model this gen when they realized this generation of gamers don't care as much as about graphics and games will still sell just fine so long as $$ is put into marketing properly.

Look at how much Nintendo makes from ports of Wii U games and low-cost remakes being sold for full price. Sony and MS HAD to have been paying attention to that.

 

[hlm666]

Think this is the first comparison shots we've seen, should start getting alot more info soon anyway.

 

[kikkis]

I understand. The issue then becomes hardware because even if they were going to spend the money, PS5 wasn’t the standard 10x generational leap over PS4 Pro so it’s no surprise it’s games don’t visually blow things like TLOU II away when running on PS4 Pro.

The big improvements this gen were the CPU and SSD. PS5 Pro will bring more RT performance and better IQ but it will be PS6 before we get another leap big enough for a genuine generational leap on screen again. But they have to be willing to spend the money or the hardware matters not.

I doubt ps6 will be big leap. Even more expensive node and this gen was a big gain in gpu and it hasn't resulted in significantly better visuals.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Looks like Lumen global illumination is being enabled/disabled in that comparison

 

[GymWolf]

Think this is the first comparison shots we've seen, should start getting alot more info soon anyway.

Looks like another game where i can max out other things and keep rtx off, the difference looks more like a different color grading than anything else.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I doubt ps6 will be big leap. Even more expensive node and this gen was a big gain in gpu and it hasn't resulted in significantly better visuals.

Yeah it’s going to be tough. But they will have a very fast CPU and SSD from the get go. Good hardware RT and their own SSS in order to hit high resolutions without blowing a lot of GPU juice on getting there. You also have Xbox saying they want the “biggest generational leap ever” which we all know is now impossible but it does show they will again move heaven and Earth to be more powerful than PS. We have to hope (in terms of cutting edge visuals anyway) that MS put out an 80TFLOP beast and Sony come in at like 70TFLOPs*. Sounds ridiculous but isn’t PS5 Pro 30?

*TERAFLOPs are a silly measurement outside of using them as a ballpark term to show general GPU capability.

 

[Radical_3d]

Think this is the first comparison shots we've seen, should start getting alot more info soon anyway.

Looks like one of those fake TV technologies comparison when they try to demonstrate its advantages.

 

[metareferential]

Looks like another game where i can max out other things and keep rtx off, the difference looks more like a different color grading than anything else

It depends on RTX implementation: if it's just for reflections and shadow, it isn't that noticeable in fact (haven't kept up with the game, so I don't know).

While the game is moving, though, it should still be more apparent. Is it worth the added rendiring time? Again, it depends on your gpu.

I don't want to open a whole can of worms, but it feels that something is moving in this gen, finally, with CP2077 updates some big UE5 releases and some more teasing.

Hellblade 2, while pretty limited, really is the Ryse (or The Order) of this gen. It's waaaay to late, but it's mighty impressive. I wouldn't mind a whole suite of more focused single-player games with that quality.

Even some remakes might turn out to be amazing.

 

[Portugeezer]

Think this is the first comparison shots we've seen, should start getting alot more info soon anyway.

Underwhelming comparison.

 

[GymWolf]

It depends on RTX implementation: if it's just for reflections and shadow, it isn't that noticeable in fact (haven't kept up with the game, so I don't know).

While the game is moving, though, it should still be more apparent. Is it worth the added rendiring time? Again, it depends on your gpu.

I don't want to open a whole can of worms, but it feels that something is moving in this gen, finally, with CP2077 updates some big UE5 releases and some more teasing.

Hellblade 2, while pretty limited, really is the Ryse (or The Order) of this gen. It's waaaay to late, but it's mighty impressive. I wouldn't mind a whole suite of more focused single-player games with that quality.

Even some remakes might turn out to be amazing.

Let's just say that i'm a raw details guy, more than a light\shadows type of guy so i naturally give way less fucks about realistic light systems so unless rtx is absolutely transformative (and i can think about 1-2 games that do that) i'm always gonna favour framerate, resolution and details over rtx.

I have a pretty powerful pc so that is not a problem.

 

[hlm666]

Looks like Lumen global illumination is being enabled/disabled in that comparison

I expect the full raytracing off to be using software lumen, and full RT to be rtxgi/di.

"In Black Myth: Wukong full ray tracing increases the fidelity and quality of lighting, reflections and shadows. Reflections on water reflect all surrounding detail. Water caustics add further realism, accurately rendering the refraction and reflection of light. Fully ray-traced Global Illumination ensures lighting indoors and outdoors is pixel perfect, darkening areas where light is occluded or doesn’t reach, and realistically illuminating the world by bouncing light. And in concert with the lighting system, contact hardening and softening fully ray traced shadows are cast everywhere, rendering the smallest of shadows from leaves and pebbles, and those from geometry-rich buildings, the main character, and the gigantic bosses that must be overcome."

Black Myth: Wukong GeForce RTX 40 Series Bundle Available Now - Get The Ultimate Experience, Enhanced With Full Ray Tracing, DLSS & Reflex

For a limited time, buy a participating GeForce RTX 40 Series graphics card, desktop PC or laptop and you’ll receive a digital copy of Black Myth: Wukong, enhanced with full ray tracing, NVIDIA DLSS and Reflex.

www.nvidia.com

 

[analog_future]

First screenshots of NBA 2K25 are out:

Looks like dogshit.

 

[kikkis]

First screenshots of NBA 2K25 are out:

Looks like dogshit.

That has armpit hair goes down on a angle and not straight down.

 

[Msamy]

Ue5 give Unknown developers the ability to make games with top notch graphics, many studios including most of sony first party studios ar far behind, i really don't think thar they will catch-up with current Ue5 technology this gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ue5 give Unknown developers the ability to make games with top notch graphics, many studios including most of sony first party studios ar far behind, i really don't think thar they will catch-up with current Ue5 technology this gen.

Came to post this. looks absolutely insane but its a new studio based out of turkey. this is a scam like Abandoned.

Ive played a lot of UE5 games and devs still have to put in the effort. Difference between Hellblade 2 and Immortals/Remnant/First Descendant/Robocop is generational. Id rate UE4 titles like Star Wars Survivor and Callisto over all of those UE5 games.

 

[GymWolf]

The major difference is that those are games and not 5 hours long tech demos.

Tell the remnant or immortals or robocop developers that they have more than 5 years and a relatively big budget to make a 5 hours walking simulator with barely anything going on, with an extremely small scope, with barely a plot, with barely more than 3-4 characters and the result is gonna be way more close to hb2 than to remnant 2, these dudes basically wasted 5 years making the best assets possible and not much else.

What a silly ass comparison.

But yeah that trailer looks as fake as starfield revolutionary havok...

 

[SlimySnake]

Think this is the first comparison shots we've seen, should start getting alot more info soon anyway.

That looks like a massive difference to me. Huge improvement in the water reflections and the main reason for the brighter image as im assuming the level is taking on the GI bounce off of the water reflections. Maybe im misunderstanding what hardware Lumen really does but it feels a lot more natural.

 

[amigastar]

Think this is the first comparison shots we've seen, should start getting alot more info soon anyway.

Raytracing looks really nice, i hope it doesn't kill the framerate too much.

 

[Piggoro]

Ue5 give Unknown developers the ability to make games with top notch graphics, many studios including most of sony first party studios ar far behind, i really don't think thar they will catch-up with current Ue5 technology this gen.

Unfortunately, UE5 doesn't give unknown developers talent, taste and style sense.

 

[Msamy]

Unfortunately, UE5 doesn't give unknown developers talent, taste and style sense.

Also sony wasted those talents in cross gen title's and cancelled gaas games

 

[Tomi]

Raytracing looks really nice, i hope it doesn't kill the framerate too much.

Unfortunately i think it will tank fps :/

 

[SlimySnake]

Raytracing looks really nice, i hope it doesn't kill the framerate too much.

Difference between software and hardware lumen was like 7% in the city sample on nvidia GPUs. Roughly 17% on AMD GPUs.

 

[Playboi Carti]

Lmao at Zelda popping up here. Super mediocre games from a technical standpoint. Better than your average game type physics doesn't make up for the rest of the technical mediocrity of these Nintendo games. I salute Sony and MS for always pushing the technology forward in the videogame industry with each generation of consoles. Nintendo can kiss my ass with these school tablets.

 

[hlm666]

That looks like a massive difference to me. Huge improvement in the water reflections and the main reason for the brighter image as im assuming the level is taking on the GI bounce off of the water reflections. Maybe im misunderstanding what hardware Lumen really does but it feels a lot more natural.

The full RT image is not using lumen, it's using whatever the current rtxgi solution is.

 

[mrqs]

Ue5 give Unknown developers the ability to make games with top notch graphics, many studios including most of sony first party studios ar far behind, i really don't think thar they will catch-up with current Ue5 technology this gen.

This looks pretty dope.

 

[GooseMan69]

First screenshots of NBA 2K25 are out:

Looks like dogshit.

2K21 looked way better. They did this last gen too. 2K14 looked amazing and then they downgraded it in 15 and never improved. We’re at the point where sports games are actually getting downgraded, instead of just being a copy pasta lmao. Lazy, greedy fucks.

 

[GooseMan69]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA2k/s/wELl16D1Ma

 

[JCreasy]

First screenshots of NBA 2K25 are out:

Looks like dogshit.

That definitely looks like Wemby though.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I understand. The issue then becomes hardware because even if they were going to spend the money, PS5 wasn’t the standard 10x generational leap over PS4 Pro so it’s no surprise it’s games don’t visually blow things like TLOU II away when running on PS4 Pro.

The big improvements this gen were the CPU and SSD. PS5 Pro will bring more RT performance and better IQ but it will be PS6 before we get another leap big enough for a genuine generational leap on screen again. But they have to be willing to spend the money or the hardware matters not.

TLOU 2 ran on base PS4. Same visual fidelity with lower resolution?

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

TLOU 2 ran on base PS4. Same visual fidelity with lower resolution?

I imagine their next game will use RTGI so 1440p/30fps on base PS5 and 4kSSS/60fps with RT AO and reflections on PS5 Pro is my guess.

 

[GymWolf]

Impressive how unimpressive this shit look from both graphic and gameplay point of view.

 

[kikkis]

Impressive how unimpressive this shit look from both graphic and gameplay point of view.

Uncharted 4 looks better and that came 8 years ago

 

[GymWolf]

Uncharted 4 looks better and that came 8 years ago

It probably doesn't look better but the fact that you even think that speak loudly.

 

[Represent.]

Space Marine 2 looks fucking good

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

2K21 looked way better. They did this last gen too. 2K14 looked amazing and then they downgraded it in 15 and never improved. We’re at the point where sports games are actually getting downgraded, instead of just being a copy pasta lmao. Lazy, greedy fucks.

At least "next gen" graphics will be on PC for NBA 2k25 this year so mods will fix most of the issues

 

[SlimySnake]

Uncharted 4 looks better and that came 8 years ago

No.

 

[GooseMan69]

Impressive how unimpressive this shit look from both graphic and gameplay point of view.

That explosion at 6:20

 

[GymWolf]

That explosion at 6:20

yeah, the game has very lousy animations and shit effects.

It's kinda wild how much talent ubisoft lost over the years.