Lethal01
Member
If that's the way you wanna go then fine, games have been "CGI like" since ps3
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
If that's the way you wanna go then fine, games have been "CGI like" since ps3
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
A few pages back in this thread these guys were literally cherry picking screenshots to compare to the likeness of those CGI videogame trailers as if those shitty looking trailers are the state of art of CGI or something, it's a videogame ad; Those type of trailers have been done for years, did you not see the Gears of War ads back then?
If that's the way you wanna go then fine, games have been "CGI like" since ps3
Motherfuckers cherry pick a screenshot then look right pass all the animation that's equally as important to capture the CGI look.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It takes like 10,000tfops hours to render a single modern cgi frame.
I dont really know what im talking about but I believe cgi is made in a fundamental different way to real-time video game graphics.
realtime is getting close, but god knows what compute power they are using to render it.
TIm Sweeney thinks the movie industry will transition to realtime, which makes sense because its all realtime and probably quicker and cheaper. However they are probably using at least 10x PS5 processing power.
I dont really know what im talking about but I believe cgi is made in a fundamental different way to real-time video game graphics.
realtime is getting close, but god knows what compute power they are using to render it.
TIm Sweeney thinks the movie industry will transition to realtime, which makes sense because its all realtime and probably quicker and cheaper. However they are probably using at least 10x PS5 processing power.
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ChiefDada
Member
The problem is people like you,
Haggard
and
Lethal01
group CGI creations as a monolith when there are different qualities of CGI art, just as there are vast differences in graphics qualities between video game titles. But a key similarity of all CGI work in comparison to real-time is the render budget being orders of magnitudes greater. So if/when I say current gen consoles and PC have reached CGI quality, I'm not referring to top 1%, state of the art CGI. But the fact they can reach even the bottom quartile of CG quality is impressive again because of the monumental difference in render time.Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I personally believe you and the VIP motherfucker was intentionally referring to published CGI work. Just using your logic the Xbox 360 and PC hardware back then reached CGI quality if I was to cherry pick screenshots and compare to those old Gears of War ads, it's ridiculous.The problem is people like you,
See how I cherry picked that. It's not even animating and it's still not reaching film CGI or TV show/advertisement CGI; There's a reason why offline publish work has a render budget orders of magnitudes greater, to keep it from looking like a magnitude of straight ass like this.
Haggard
Banned
by that standard we could just compare real time graphics to every crappy CG animated kids show from the 90s and call everything we have today CGI-like........The problem is people like you,
We´re always comparing what`s possible, and that automatically means top-end. Comparing high end to low end makes no sense and is just counter-intuitive.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I guess don't just use the blanket term "CGI", use a specific example e.g infinity war CGI, 2000s video game CGI, twister movie CGI etc etc
GymWolf
Member
Pretty much this.
Cg is a broad term so every guy has his own idea of cg, me and many other think about top-tier cg, some thing about ps3 cg intro level or low level cg from theCW serial tv and shit.
Although, it should be more logical to compare to top tier cg since that is less of a broad sample (very few movies have cg so good that you can't even notice it)
ChiefDada
Member
I disagree with you here because of the massive difference in render time, even with low end CGI.
I often do and still get hammered for it.
Haggard
Banned
Then literally everything is CGI like for you because we've eclipsed some of the crappy saturday morning kids shows from the 90s.
It's absolute and utter nonsense but it does explain a lot.
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GymWolf
Member
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ChiefDada
Member
No. I've compared real time graphics with CG from the past few years, namely PS launch commercials. Nothing nonsensical here other than your choice to be perpetually miserable.
Damn, but that is oddly specific!
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I mean, think about any occurance in life and how much more different and detailed they are.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
I liked CP2077 for what it was (I mainlined the story on PS5 early this year when the "next gen" (lol) patch hit) and yeah I know they're trying to sell GPU's by using RT GI / Reflections but I can't help feel there's sooo much more they could ramp up in CP2077 before they touch RT or 4k resolution.
The main character models, textures and lighting are the stand out's in the game but how about ramping the NPC amount up by 10x? Creating many more NPC types while improving the quality of them to match the main story characters (Forbidden West level at least) with many more rigged animations and people actually having schedules like Majora's Mask from the year 2000
. The city is nice looking but so much of it is "set dressing" so how about going in and even around the main areas making these facades actually enterable and containing collectibles, mini events and side quests to find. You do the above then add all the RT stuff and 4k and 120fps and it would start to rival a Rockstar game.**I know this would probably cost another $20 million in development time and they are just trying to sell a new GPU that is sooo ridiculously powerful it has to be seen to be pushing RTl, insane resolutions and framerates. Also some of my suggestions might hit memory / CPU limitations before the GPU anyway.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
This gameplay vs CGI argument always comes up in graphics / visual threads and it's just as fucking stupid every damn time.And I'm guessing your only evidence for this is the fact that you would make that mistake right? Thus everyone has your shitty eyes? Don't be a fucking idiot and start literally pulling shit out your ass.
Goalposts aren't being "moved" just because we reached the goal that you personally set.
This looks absolutely fantastic, I just wish some people could just admit we are still far away from CGI from this decade.
This looks like an amazing Video game, but "photorealistic"???
Nah
People play down the current best in game visuals by posting CGI. Some say the game looks better. All hell breaks loose.
There should be a rule that no one posts CGI screenshots / videos in this thread. It's about real time videogame visuals whether "in engine", "photo mode" or "gameplay". End of.
Haggard
Banned
Keep on digging. On the other side of the earth there might be someone agreeing with your completely arbitrary logic....
ChiefDada
Member
You replied to my comment from yesterday again today with a virtually identical response. How desperate for attention are you?
There's nothing arbitrary about what I've been saying. Real time graphics have reached a level of modern CG. I'm not saying it's the highest level and I would never say that but even at the lower levels it still takes a large multiple of time to render frames than a console/PC; the render budget delta is much greater than the differences in results. That is my point. Surely you understand this but you've chosen a path of ignorance for reasons I don't care enough to discover.
Haggard
Banned
Keep on repeating the same nonsense. Maybe if you do that another 999 times it won't sound like pathetically moving the goalposts as you see fit anymore.
Maybe you'll even convince yourself you're not just just blabbering.
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ChiefDada
Member
I did not say the entire trailer is photorealistic but much of the scenes do reach that level.
ChiefDada
Member
You're the only one here literally repeating yourself, as I pointed out in my previous reply.
Haggard
Banned
Unfortunately it's a vicious cycle. You keep on talking bullshit so why would you expect people to stop calling you out on it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol I go away for a few days and this thread is in all out civil war. We are all on the same side here. We want next gen shit from our next gen hardware. No need to start picking sides to create needless drama lol.
But we are clearly coming very close and it shouldnt be a death sentence to simply state that Matrix in cutscenes look so fucking good it looks like CG. We are seeing the rooftop scene in the Matrix recreated in realtime on a freaking 10 tflops PS5. Lets just be happy we are seeing this incredible leap in fidelity.
P.S Ratchet looked CG to me. Doesnt mean it looks as good as the latest toy story or transformers or Avatar. It just had that level of fidelity in cutscenes that ive come to associate with Pixar movies. Not 100% of the time, but in some shots, I couldnt believe my eyes and had no choice but to come it to pixar CG. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole because simply saying it looks amazing is not enough praise.
This. It's super weird because Matrix, the Nvidia RC demo, and those Unity lion/blind lady demos have shown just what these consoles are capable of. Of course, we wont ever get CG quality visuals that take literally days to render one frame. I remember reading how a shot of 4 transformers on screen at once fighting a decepticon took them 6 months to render back in 2007. Of course, we are never going to get those in a realtime game running on consumer grade GPUs instead of server farms or whatever supercomputer ILM houses these days.
But we are clearly coming very close and it shouldnt be a death sentence to simply state that Matrix in cutscenes look so fucking good it looks like CG. We are seeing the rooftop scene in the Matrix recreated in realtime on a freaking 10 tflops PS5. Lets just be happy we are seeing this incredible leap in fidelity.
P.S Ratchet looked CG to me. Doesnt mean it looks as good as the latest toy story or transformers or Avatar. It just had that level of fidelity in cutscenes that ive come to associate with Pixar movies. Not 100% of the time, but in some shots, I couldnt believe my eyes and had no choice but to come it to pixar CG. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole because simply saying it looks amazing is not enough praise.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It absolutely looks like a CG movie.lol I go away for a few days and this thread is in all out civil war. We are all on the same side here. We want next gen shit from our next gen hardware. No need to start picking sides to create needless drama lol.
This. It's super weird because Matrix, the Nvidia RC demo, and those Unity lion/blind lady demos have shown just what these consoles are capable of. Of course, we wont ever get CG quality visuals that take literally days to render one frame. I remember reading how a shot of 4 transformers on screen at once fighting a decepticon took them 6 months to render back in 2007. Of course, we are never going to get those in a realtime game running on consumer grade GPUs instead of server farms or whatever supercomputer ILM houses these days.
But we are clearly coming very close and it shouldnt be a death sentence to simply state that Matrix in cutscenes look so fucking good it looks like CG. We are seeing the rooftop scene in the Matrix recreated in realtime on a freaking 10 tflops PS5. Lets just be happy we are seeing this incredible leap in fidelity.
P.S Ratchet looked CG to me. Doesnt mean it looks as good as the latest toy story or transformers or Avatar. It just had that level of fidelity in cutscenes that ive come to associate with Pixar movies. Not 100% of the time, but in some shots, I couldnt believe my eyes and had no choice but to come it to pixar CG. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole because simply saying it looks amazing is not enough praise.
I am just not sure how much is the RAW TECH and how much is the amazing motion blur animations with characters stretching and emoting like a pixar movie. It really is something quite perfect
ChiefDada
Member
Lethal01
Member
This is simply and completely untrue, Realtime graphics can't even come close to the CGI trailer for the games they advertise.
This is true even on the new 4090 much less the PS5 and Xbox Series X.
Again, We are "close to modern CGI" in the same fashion the PS2 was close to modern CGI. You could just as easily say the PS2 had visual with CGI like aspects as you can the PS5.
nah
Hyperbole is fine, When somebody points out that your hyperbole is obviously wrong you can just let it go instead of defending it for no reason.
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Haggard
Banned
Well, as long as you don't try to sell the hyperbole as fact, like certain other people, I doubt anyone would argue with that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Touche.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Ratchet's one game that looks CGI-like. It needs a lot of cleverness to get there, but it is there.
The Kingdom Hearts games also lend to this. Someone mentioned Toy Story, well, Kingdom Hearts 3 has a similar looking scene:
Render Engines however do still have an edge: Propetairy shaders, Metropolis Light Transport and (now) Stochastic ray tracing.
Btw since i like research in this field i do have some links of what were firsts in that particular field. Might be worthwhile if you want to do a cross-compare with real time graphics (Or when similar effects were achieved in real time.)
The Kingdom Hearts games also lend to this. Someone mentioned Toy Story, well, Kingdom Hearts 3 has a similar looking scene:
Render Engines however do still have an edge: Propetairy shaders, Metropolis Light Transport and (now) Stochastic ray tracing.
Btw since i like research in this field i do have some links of what were firsts in that particular field. Might be worthwhile if you want to do a cross-compare with real time graphics (Or when similar effects were achieved in real time.)
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Those shots look good to me for a videogame, but in my mind I don't think CGI for a second by looking at them. Also, once you say "Pixar" I'm immediately thinking photorealism; Ratchet's visual style is completely different than what Pixar is doing, the only videogames on the retail market that utilized a lot of Pixar's style was Portal 1 and Portal 2.lol I go away for a few days and this thread is in all out civil war. We are all on the same side here. We want next gen shit from our next gen hardware. No need to start picking sides to create needless drama lol.
This. It's super weird because Matrix, the Nvidia RC demo, and those Unity lion/blind lady demos have shown just what these consoles are capable of. Of course, we wont ever get CG quality visuals that take literally days to render one frame. I remember reading how a shot of 4 transformers on screen at once fighting a decepticon took them 6 months to render back in 2007. Of course, we are never going to get those in a realtime game running on consumer grade GPUs instead of server farms or whatever supercomputer ILM houses these days.
But we are clearly coming very close and it shouldnt be a death sentence to simply state that Matrix in cutscenes look so fucking good it looks like CG. We are seeing the rooftop scene in the Matrix recreated in realtime on a freaking 10 tflops PS5. Lets just be happy we are seeing this incredible leap in fidelity.
P.S Ratchet looked CG to me. Doesnt mean it looks as good as the latest toy story or transformers or Avatar. It just had that level of fidelity in cutscenes that ive come to associate with Pixar movies. Not 100% of the time, but in some shots, I couldnt believe my eyes and had no choice but to come it to pixar CG. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole because simply saying it looks amazing is not enough praise.
But anyway I can still enjoy the visuals of my videogames without comparing them to CGI published work.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
But no Pixar movies look even sightly photorealistic (because they're not trying to).
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I see a lot of people say this on the internet. Go look carefully at Pixar's work it is photorealism, but I'm not excluding it being stylized.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Photorealistic means that you can't tell something apart from a real photo or video. Anything highly stylized, like what Pixar does, is by definition not photorealistic.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
That's cool
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Quality is trash but this is still easily the best looking area I've ever seen in a game. This should be the blueprint/standard going forward. When the hell are studios going to top this?
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
Maybe Guerilla will when they make a proper PS5 game. So, in 4-5 years?
(I hate that all these top devs are releasing cross-gen games, because that means we won't get real next-gen stuff from them until toward the end of the generation.)
NomenNescio
Gold Member
lol I go away for a few days and this thread is in all out civil war. We are all on the same side here. We want next gen shit from our next gen hardware. No need to start picking sides to create needless drama lol.
This. It's super weird because Matrix, the Nvidia RC demo, and those Unity lion/blind lady demos have shown just what these consoles are capable of. Of course, we wont ever get CG quality visuals that take literally days to render one frame. I remember reading how a shot of 4 transformers on screen at once fighting a decepticon took them 6 months to render back in 2007. Of course, we are never going to get those in a realtime game running on consumer grade GPUs instead of server farms or whatever supercomputer ILM houses these days.
But we are clearly coming very close and it shouldnt be a death sentence to simply state that Matrix in cutscenes look so fucking good it looks like CG. We are seeing the rooftop scene in the Matrix recreated in realtime on a freaking 10 tflops PS5. Lets just be happy we are seeing this incredible leap in fidelity.
P.S Ratchet looked CG to me. Doesnt mean it looks as good as the latest toy story or transformers or Avatar. It just had that level of fidelity in cutscenes that ive come to associate with Pixar movies. Not 100% of the time, but in some shots, I couldnt believe my eyes and had no choice but to come it to pixar CG. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole because simply saying it looks amazing is not enough praise.
We are at a point where Hollywood could release a CGI movie with exactly this level of fidelity (no more, no less), and no one would complain about visual quality. It's incredible how people take this kind of achievement for granted.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. It's a shame that the best studios like ND, SSM and GG have not even shown anything next gen 2 years into the gen. Thats why the lack of an E3 precense and a cancellation of the yearly September Showcase is so disappointing. No one seems to be remotely ready to show stuff let alone release games. We didnt even get Spiderman gameplay a year after reveal or a realtime trailer for wolverine so even Insomniac basically couldnt come up with a simple trailer in a year, and they are like 2 years ahead of everyone else. 2027 is probably going to be when GG, ND, and SSM release their next gen games. Watch Sony and MS milk this gen until 2030 before releasing new consoles.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
lol I go away for a few days and this thread is in all out civil war. We are all on the same side here. We want next gen shit from our next gen hardware. No need to start picking sides to create needless drama lol.
This. It's super weird because Matrix, the Nvidia RC demo, and those Unity lion/blind lady demos have shown just what these consoles are capable of. Of course, we wont ever get CG quality visuals that take literally days to render one frame. I remember reading how a shot of 4 transformers on screen at once fighting a decepticon took them 6 months to render back in 2007. Of course, we are never going to get those in a realtime game running on consumer grade GPUs instead of server farms or whatever supercomputer ILM houses these days.
But we are clearly coming very close and it shouldnt be a death sentence to simply state that Matrix in cutscenes look so fucking good it looks like CG. We are seeing the rooftop scene in the Matrix recreated in realtime on a freaking 10 tflops PS5. Lets just be happy we are seeing this incredible leap in fidelity.
P.S Ratchet looked CG to me. Doesnt mean it looks as good as the latest toy story or transformers or Avatar. It just had that level of fidelity in cutscenes that ive come to associate with Pixar movies. Not 100% of the time, but in some shots, I couldnt believe my eyes and had no choice but to come it to pixar CG. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole because simply saying it looks amazing is not enough praise.
Yeah I get what you mean.
Some materials and shaders look better in games then some older CGI, but it's difficult to compare because take a film like WALL-e the shaders and materials sometimes look inferior to rift aparts, but the amount of geometry and the fact that every light is path traced shits all over rift apart. CGI from the infinity saga and Alita battle angel shits all over rift apart., But still I kinda agree with you when u say rift apart looks like cgi
ChiefDada
Member
How can you say this and completely write off my position when you have industry professionals saying the same fucking thing? FlippedNormals guys aren't console fanboys, they do CG work for big budget blockbuster movies such as Batman V. Superman and Guardians of the Galaxy. Will you accept their analysis, or are these folks not qualified to speak on it?
Timestamped
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Luckily there are other great Devs which progress in visuals besides those 3, R*,iD, machine games, infinity ward, respawn, the coalition etc. I would not expect those 3 Devs games to be much different in terms of technologies and techniques used. This gen will probably be about, micro geometry in environments, more physics simulations and better lighting.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yeah with static environments, but compare ue5's fluid simulations and heavy particle effects to the thanos battle.
We ain't getting close to that this gen
We will get close to this, but with only like 10 droids + a few tanks.
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ChiefDada
Member
When you say static environments, I'm guessing you're referring to deformation caused by player stimulus. Because although the environment in the Lumen demo was 100% scripted, there was definitely deformation as the rock structures were crumbling during the flight sequence. And the Lumen demo is useful as a benchmark for what we can expect from set pieces this gen; current gen set pieces will run laps around the UE5 demo. Imagine what games with $200m budget look like. I've seen enough demos to avoid making the mistake of underestimating what these new consoles are capable of. It'll be insane.
I don't think your ceiling for what is/isn't possible this gen should be centered around UE5. Different engines will have unique strengths and limitations as it was in prior generations. Clearly Nanite is UE5's ace in the hole. Let's see what studios like Remedy and Housemarque cook up for particle tech by end of generation.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Exactly.The problem is people like you,
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I didn't state my ceiling for this gen..
There is Destruction in the Voa demo but it's still small potatoes compared to modern CGI. But I agree the rocks look like cgi.
It ain't just particle tech but geometry aswell. In modern CGI there is a very high number of objects which are all very high quality. No doubt this gen will progress with particle effects. We have already seen some progress in this area in rift apart, theres a load of particles and geometry and the smoke effects look better then last gen, but the stuff in CGI is on a whole other level, they can just do more in CGI. consoles are still compute limited compared to the server farms CGI is rendered with.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
The fact something this absolute has to be mentioned should serve as reminder how far off into the deep end some of the arguments presented are.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
My fault, my fault everyone, I was tripp'n. That 1738 was making it do what it do. Let's discuss about graphics where it matters the most for me, gameplay.
I couldnt believe my eyes. This looked CG to me. To say otherwise you've chosen a path of ignorance. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole. It really is something quite perfect. For the players.
I couldnt believe my eyes. This looked CG to me. To say otherwise you've chosen a path of ignorance. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole. It really is something quite perfect. For the players.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
If the new Switch specs are correct from the Nvidia leak / insiders (8 core A78C CPU / 12gb RAM @ 100+gb per sec / 1.3tflop handheld + 2.6tflop docked GPU and DLSS 2.0) then I believe Nintendo could create a big budget 3D Mario game that rivals Ratchet visually because they're one of the only teams that rival Insomniac (along with Naughty Dog, SSM and Rockstar) for their industry leading art and animation pipeline.
It's going to be so good seeing Nintendo at last back at the races when it comes to visuals even if everything above is bullshit and it's just the current Switch running games at 4k DLSS when docked because Super Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Smash Bros Ultimate, Breath of the Wild, Luigi's Mansion 3, Mario + Rabbids, Yoshi's Crafted Word, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and Splatoon 3 all look absolutely phenomenal at 4k on a PC emulator. Those games were built around a sub 200gflop GPU, 3gb of insultingly slow RAM and a mobile phone CPU from 2015... Imagine what their teams will do with such a leap in technology even if the games still have to run on base Switch for a couple of years like PS4/5 games.
It's going to be so good seeing Nintendo at last back at the races when it comes to visuals even if everything above is bullshit and it's just the current Switch running games at 4k DLSS when docked because Super Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Smash Bros Ultimate, Breath of the Wild, Luigi's Mansion 3, Mario + Rabbids, Yoshi's Crafted Word, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and Splatoon 3 all look absolutely phenomenal at 4k on a PC emulator. Those games were built around a sub 200gflop GPU, 3gb of insultingly slow RAM and a mobile phone CPU from 2015... Imagine what their teams will do with such a leap in technology even if the games still have to run on base Switch for a couple of years like PS4/5 games.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
I'm playing TLOU remake just now and it's a ridiculously good looking game. Sure it has parts you can cherry pic because it has so much indirect lighting and looks flat at times but my god the game overall is a 10 visually. The leap in facial animation over the original game and it's Remaster is astounding. Probably the best human faces I've seen in a game and because they're stylised you don't get that 'The Quarry' like uncanny valley effect.My fault, my fault everyone, I was tripp'n. That 1738 was making it do what it do. Let's discuss about graphics where it matters the most for me, gameplay.
I couldnt believe my eyes. This looked CG to me. To say otherwise you've chosen a path of ignorance. Sometimes you just have to use hyperbole. It really is something quite perfect. For the players.
Your move Rockstar