Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
With DLSS3 Like solutions 30fps could have the exact same visual fluidity on screen as 60fps.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
None of that is remotely true. The game doesn’t suddenly look worse when you move the camera around. I've beaten the game and am currently replaying it. It looks even better than I remembered. Still playing at 30fps on a 65" OLED C1 and its not "choppy" in the slightest. I have literally NO IDEA what you people are talking about. And Im glad I dont, because it frankly looks last gen at 60fps and next gen as fuck at 30fps.
Last edited:
Exoil
Member
Alright, you're not for real
I'm actually in the game right now on a 65" C1 switching between the three different modes and how someone can get it into their head that Performance mode looks last gen and Resolution mode looks next gen is blowing my mind.
Minor differences in graphical prowess between the two modes and MAJOR differences in fluidity and clarity in motion between them.
If I wanted to play this game in a choppy 30fps I could've saved a tenner and bought it for the PS4
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What do you all think of Need For Speed? Next gen only.
Lighting is the highlight here. Artstyle is stunning too.
Lighting is the highlight here. Artstyle is stunning too.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
What do you all think of Need For Speed? Next gen only.
Lighting is the highlight here. Artstyle is stunning too.
As an arcade fan I welcome the slick looking art style, but in terms of lighting and asset fidelity, I don't see how this is better than GT7, a ...
CROSS-GEN GAME!!!!!
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I believe you, but must say I was surprised to here you're playing on an OLED and don't notice the judder at 30fps compared to 60. I guess it really comes down to motion sensitivity for each player. I've always had an issue with motion sickness which is why I stay away from first person games. I think switching to an oled made it borderline nauseating to play even my beloved 3rd person games. If it wasn't for 40fps/VRR, which I didn't consider when making my tv purchase decision, I definitely would have regretted passing on the Samsung Q90.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Alright, you're not for real
I'm actually in the game right now on a 65" C1 switching between the three different modes and how someone can get it into their head that Performance mode looks last gen and Resolution mode looks next gen is blowing my mind.
Minor differences in graphical prowess between the two modes and MAJOR differences in fluidity and clarity in motion between them.
If I wanted to play this game in a choppy 30fps I could've saved a tenner and bought it for the PS4
Since launch they’ve patched up the performance mode. It was an afterthought at launch when I played it and was literally hideous and unplayable. Google all the articles about it.
The 30fps is still the mode they use to capture footage to use in trailers, and is the default mode in the game…. Because it looks much better. It’s not choppy at all.
Maybe change your TV settings or something. I have my C1 calibrated to each individual game. I don’t just leave it in game mode and call it a day. So every game looks incredibly nice and never choppy because i calibrate my TV for that specific game
Last edited:
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Looks like a upgraded NFS 2015 with cell shaded effects. Looks good for a open world game running at 4k60, but its nothing ground breaking or next gen looking. NFS 2015 looked really good and was underrated graphically, NFS: Heat and Payback where huge downgrades.What do you all think of Need For Speed? Next gen only.
Lighting is the highlight here. Artstyle is stunning too.
GymWolf
Gold Member
That last pic looks pretty fucking good but i'm not a racing expert.Looks like a upgraded NFS 2015 with cell shaded effects. Looks good for a open world game running at 4k60, but its nothing ground breaking or next gen looking. NFS 2015 looked really good and was underrated graphically, NFS: Heat and Payback where huge downgrades.
Racing games are always the closest thing to photorealism for some reasons.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yep. that game looks stunning. shame it never got a Pro patch. I should pick it up on PC.Looks like a upgraded NFS 2015 with cell shaded effects. Looks good for a open world game running at 4k60, but its nothing ground breaking or next gen looking. NFS 2015 looked really good and was underrated graphically, NFS: Heat and Payback where huge downgrades.
kittoo
Cretinously credulous
Very limited and fixed (in most cases) areas, fewer AI/crowd systems, lesser physics load, no inventory/quest and other subroutines to manage.
To me they feel above graphics demos, but below full blown games for the most part. In terms of systems to manage that is.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Nice recap.
I would say that the cars are the aspect that really looks photorealistic, the locations are on par with the best games out there or just a slight bit better but we are splitting hairs.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
What do you all think of Need For Speed? Next gen only.
Lighting is the highlight here. Artstyle is stunning too.
I need to see it running natively, I was not impressed by the trailer. Until then Need for Speed 2015 is still the best looking one.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Nothing to see here, just randomly posting this tweet to say I really dig Kratos' character model in Ragnarok. Looked really great in one of those GameInformer vids a while back too.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol The Mario CG movie trailer destroys every single next gen game released so far. Funny that we were just talking about games looking CG and fucking Mario just completely obliterates all the cross gen trash released so far. Even Ratchet doesnt look this good. Who the fuck thought targeting native 4k 50 fps on PS5 was a good idea? Target 1440p 30 fps like Matrix you morons. No one wants to play these cinematic games at 30 fps. We have mid gen upgrades and PC for that.
Nintendo targeting 1.3 tflops in handheld mode for their next chip is even more depressing. No way in hell do they come close to these visuals for at least the next 20 years. Maybe 30. Seriously, fuck this shit.
P.S Insomniac is not just wasting 2x the GPU power targeting native 4k over 1440p, but they are also wasting another 50-70% of GPU power seeing as how the unlocked framerate mode averages 50 fps. That means this game can probably run at 1080p 30 fps on a 2.5-3 tflops GPU. No idea why Insomniac and ND are holding themselves back like this. Absolutely ridiculous stuff.
Nintendo targeting 1.3 tflops in handheld mode for their next chip is even more depressing. No way in hell do they come close to these visuals for at least the next 20 years. Maybe 30. Seriously, fuck this shit.
P.S Insomniac is not just wasting 2x the GPU power targeting native 4k over 1440p, but they are also wasting another 50-70% of GPU power seeing as how the unlocked framerate mode averages 50 fps. That means this game can probably run at 1080p 30 fps on a 2.5-3 tflops GPU. No idea why Insomniac and ND are holding themselves back like this. Absolutely ridiculous stuff.
Last edited:
arkhamguy123
Member
You'll probably see 1440p with better graphics as the gen goes on. It'll be like the 640p for the PS360 gen or 900p for the PS4One gen.
PonyStation4
Member
Games will never look that good unless the price of games sees a drastic price increase. Has far more to do with money and amount of employees than the tflops of a console
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Because its CG, there are no game running on it and very controlled. you only see what they want to you to see. Stop comparing CG in movies with games.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
If you expecting game give you same visual fidelity as CGI in movies while properly run actual game then you gonna keep getting disappointed.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Matrix is doing far more than every single Mario game ever combined. The playable car chase scene alone has more going on than Anything in ratchet. Game logic doesn’t run on GPUs.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I don't think comparison between videogames and CGI have much sense now.
We are not in 2K where PS1 and PS2 games had to use fake techniques to replicate CGI effects, like environment mapping, blur, per-vertex shadows, and so on.
Modern videogames share lot of techniques from CGI, and now with RTX the gap is thinner. Basically modern videogames are just downgraded CGI movies.
Not counting CGI movies use techniques from videogames, I remember the developers of Toy Story 3 had shown a slide where the movie used the same AO "fake" from the game.
We are not in 2K where PS1 and PS2 games had to use fake techniques to replicate CGI effects, like environment mapping, blur, per-vertex shadows, and so on.
Modern videogames share lot of techniques from CGI, and now with RTX the gap is thinner. Basically modern videogames are just downgraded CGI movies.
Not counting CGI movies use techniques from videogames, I remember the developers of Toy Story 3 had shown a slide where the movie used the same AO "fake" from the game.
Infested Goblin
Member
Petabytes of thousends of hours rendering on supercomputers looks better than real time graphics on 400$ console. We need to riot guys, sony lied to us
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Sadly we will need to wait for PS6 to run it at acceptable framerates.
Or, you know, just wait for the engine to mature.
I'm still surprised how people are not impressed by this demo.
PS5 is a super computer confirmed.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Eh. it runs fine unless stress tested.Sadly we will need to wait for PS6 to run it at acceptable framerates.
You can see that its mostly 30 fps throughout the chase sequence only dropping in some rare instances.
It's also 30 fps when walking around and only drops when you drive really fast and crash into cars. Something that also happens on PCs with 2x more power due to poor CPU optimization. If you reduce the traffic density by half, the game runs at a smooth 30 fps even while driving at the same visual quality. The bottlenecks are on the CPU side which cause framedrops when lots of vehicles are on screen.
Exoil
Member
Unfortunately PS5 and
If you would've said you meant the shimmering mess that was the performance mode at launch I would've understood what you meant perfectly
Holy hell they messed that up at launch!
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Played it on X, played it on PS5. It was not fine, not for me. Motion blur at such low framerates was headache-educing.
I know, I know... tools, secret sauce, untapped potential, etc. etc.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I know, I know... tools, secret sauce, untapped potential, etc. etc.
Apparently, you don't know. Has nothing to do with "secret sauce" or any other nonsense you're talking about. The engine was/is still a work in progress, as Epic stated.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Gif format make everything more pristine, i bet my left testicle that it doesn't look nearly as clean on a giant tv.
PS5 is a super computer confirmed.
Tonight i'm gonna force myself to finally try this fucking thing.
Last edited:
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's absolutely ridiculous how the Matrix keeps being dismissed as just a tech demo as if game logic runs on the GPU. As if its not rendering an entire open world with 40k cars and another 40k pedestrians. As if it doesnt have better physics and destruction than any other game. The only thing missing is the ability to shoot people on the streets but you can cause plenty of havok in the chase sequence or while in a car.
What exactly is missing that will cause GPUs in real games to not be able to render these graphics? Death animations? So the game can run amazing crash animations for cars but will crash the framerate for character death animations? How is it any different from any other open world where you see Aloy walk around in vast open environments with no shooting, no killing, and no enemies. The demo can render 40k cars and pedestrians but it cant render one trex?
I would understand if this was a pre-rendered inengine trailer like the Hellblade 2 teaser or the original Horizon FW trailer. I would understand the skepticism if it was a linear realtime demo like the first UE5 demo. But this thing is open world, fully playable. You can even fly in it. I glitched the PC version to land the car on water and was able to drive on water to the other side with the fake buildings and it was fully explorable. No streets were rendered but the buildings were all there. its insane how large this world is.
I was watching Alannah Pearce's reaction video on this and she was blown away. She now works at SSM but said she had never seen anything like this. She also said that games are held back by Hardware limitations not lack of imagination from devs. And yet we see her own studio hold themselves back by targeting last gen specs.
Next gen games like Ratchet and Starfield not held back by last gen hardware inexplicably target native 4k and have essentially programmed gamers to think that Matrix or this Mario trailer graphics are simply impossible.
It looks excellent. Base image in the open world is 1620p TSR'd upto 4k. The chase sequence is 1440p again using TSR to go to native 4k with some rare drops below that. There is some weird shimmering on buildings in the distance but its not AA. Same flickering issue is on PC even at native 4k. Probably a nanite bug.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Not on console. Base resolution was 1080p with TSR upscale to 4k for PS5/XSX
You're right, image is pretty unstable especially draw distance. The demo is still a marvel though, so long as you appreciate it for what it is, no more no less. There are plenty of people here who stubbornly under/overvalue the demo. While I'm on record listing it's shortcomings, I do feel the demo unequivocally debunks the diminishing returns claim for graphical improvements.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It only drops below 1440p at one point according to Alex in that video, but averages 1440p during the chase sequence. VG Tech's counts were 1404p.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
It only drops below 1440p at one point according to Alex in that video, but averages 1440p during the chase sequence. VG Tech's counts were 1404p.
Yeah their counts ended up being wrong because they included letterbox bars. Someone from Epic corrected Alex on twitter. Only NXGamer got it right on first go. I think it's a testament to how good the upscale tech is and it will continue to get better. They kind if had a similar issue with the first Lumen PS5 demo. High fidelity assets made it very difficult to count. That one was 1440p with 4k TSR upscale and it looked much sharper than any 4k game I've ever played because of the sub pixel geometry. I truly think DF will finally abandon pixel counts by the end of the generation. Good riddance.
GymWolf
Gold Member
It looks excellent. Base image in the open world is 1620p TSR'd upto 4k. The chase sequence is 1440p again using TSR to go to native 4k with some rare drops below that. There is some weird shimmering on buildings in the distance but its not AA. Same flickering issue is on PC even at native 4k. Probably a nanite bug.
So...is my left testicle safe? yay or nay?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Im curious to see what you think. try downloading the PC version too. Your 2070 Super should offer around the same performance as consoles.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Then why i should bother downloading the pc version?
I have it already inside the ps5 so i'm just gonna try that version.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You can run it at native res and compare the PS5 version which comes with TSR enabled at all times. See if the PS5 is less sharp than 1440p on PC.Then why i should bother downloading the pc version?
I have it already inside the ps5 so i'm just gonna try that version.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Sooo i finally played this demo for like 30 min.
The demo is clearly made by 2 distinctive parts, the first cinematic part where you have very limited to no control at all and it could actually fool my father or one of my most casuals friend into believing that it's a movie trailer (better if they are a bit drunk or high) althought explosions, fire and smoke were kinda meh.
So very impressed by what is basically a beefed up cutscene with a shooting gallery section, i think the game looked better when it takes complete control and goes full-on cutscene and has a small downgrade when you have to shot with the gun, but i may be wrong on the last part, i only played it once.
Then you have the walking open world part, and here the game really didn't impressed me that much (if i consider all the people ripping their hairs off about it) except for the realistic color palette (the game really reminds me of the gateway or how the gateway could look on a ps5 made by a second tier first party sony like bend or sucker punch).
Graphic take a huge hit, the main model is really nothing special (not even her ass), the npcs are ok at best, the cars looks ok i guess, the buildings looks good and my brain is not good with judgying lights and shadows but i guess they are good and realistic enough (again, it reminds me of the gateway), it still look pretty good to great in the right light condition but nothing that a major sony\M\third party team can't surpass with 5-6 years of development (strictly talking about the walking part of the demo, the first part is gonna be a bitch to replicate in a game where you have full control)
The car damage system is completely all over the place, hits that don't register, small damage after huge hits or the opposite, cars are too light, if not for the way better graphical fidelity i would say that it is not THAT much better than gta4 and surely not on the level of wreckfest and not even on the same universe of beamNG, the system is too fucking random and unprecise for now.
Overall, i can see gta6 getting on a level close or on par to the walking part (it the game is nextgen only) but with a complex simulation that is completely absent in this demo except for the traffic stuff that makes slimy more wet than a school girl at a boyband concert.
P.s. the amount of film grain, shimmering (or what the fuck is the name of the effect), artifacts etc. in the walking part was pretty distracting, only that post-processed, black barred, low res piece of shit of the order bothered me more recently.
Resolution was ok, i could play an entire game with this res but a more cleaner IQ.
(played on a c1)
The demo is clearly made by 2 distinctive parts, the first cinematic part where you have very limited to no control at all and it could actually fool my father or one of my most casuals friend into believing that it's a movie trailer (better if they are a bit drunk or high) althought explosions, fire and smoke were kinda meh.
So very impressed by what is basically a beefed up cutscene with a shooting gallery section, i think the game looked better when it takes complete control and goes full-on cutscene and has a small downgrade when you have to shot with the gun, but i may be wrong on the last part, i only played it once.
Then you have the walking open world part, and here the game really didn't impressed me that much (if i consider all the people ripping their hairs off about it) except for the realistic color palette (the game really reminds me of the gateway or how the gateway could look on a ps5 made by a second tier first party sony like bend or sucker punch).
Graphic take a huge hit, the main model is really nothing special (not even her ass), the npcs are ok at best, the cars looks ok i guess, the buildings looks good and my brain is not good with judgying lights and shadows but i guess they are good and realistic enough (again, it reminds me of the gateway), it still look pretty good to great in the right light condition but nothing that a major sony\M\third party team can't surpass with 5-6 years of development (strictly talking about the walking part of the demo, the first part is gonna be a bitch to replicate in a game where you have full control)
The car damage system is completely all over the place, hits that don't register, small damage after huge hits or the opposite, cars are too light, if not for the way better graphical fidelity i would say that it is not THAT much better than gta4 and surely not on the level of wreckfest and not even on the same universe of beamNG, the system is too fucking random and unprecise for now.
Overall, i can see gta6 getting on a level close or on par to the walking part (it the game is nextgen only) but with a complex simulation that is completely absent in this demo except for the traffic stuff that makes slimy more wet than a school girl at a boyband concert.
P.s. the amount of film grain, shimmering (or what the fuck is the name of the effect), artifacts etc. in the walking part was pretty distracting, only that post-processed, black barred, low res piece of shit of the order bothered me more recently.
Resolution was ok, i could play an entire game with this res but a more cleaner IQ.
(played on a c1)
Last edited:
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Its probably because the things that it improves are kinda subtle at first glance.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It's super annoying how everyone calls this a 25 fps demo
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Spot on. Vfx for fire, smoke, explosions, etc. were video files which is why they looked wonky.
I agree with everything you’ve said.
Talking solely of the open world section. When viewing on a large 4K TV, it doesn’t look anywhere near as real as the small gifs posted here.
The artifices/shimmering or whatever it is on buildings is very noticeable. I’ve also noticed it in a lot of those homemade UE5 videos.
I don't think we need the 400% lense of DFN to see why the demo is impressive
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
I understand how it works…none the less it works right?
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Crazy.