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[SlimySnake]

Microsoft showed up today with the visual fidelity, and the diversity of said visuals. I think saying that their games are some of the best looking in this space isn’t a crazy notion at this point.

they have definitely done a better job than PS studios the last few years but i wasnt as impressed with doom, ninja gaiden and south of midnight as i was with starfield and hellblade 2.

Doom looks fairly cross gen. bigger levels so i guess thats cool, but i expected more. south of midnight looks great at times, but its such a simple game, i dont even know if i will ever play it. And ninja gaiden looked like a ps4 game so whatever.

the only game that looked next gen was made by a bunch of dudes straight out of college who had nothing to do with microsoft, and had the common sense to go with UE5. maybe thats the recipe lol.

 

[SlimySnake]

Doom looked good but i didn't see anything crazy tbh.

I thought i was eating crazy pills...

I think the game looking awesome gameplay wise, all the cool stuff like the big robot and the big scope made people think that it look better than it does because i'm really not seeing it...

yeah, compared to indy even spiderman 2 looks next gen, but thats not the point.

the game does support path tracing and some new nvidia tech so maybe it will look great on 5000 series cards but the footage shown here looks fairly dated. Amazing from a gameplay perspective (Fuck Doom Eternal) but asset quality, lighting, and visual effects look fairly last gen. the scale is impressive for a 60 fps game. i was always a bit let down by how small the ps4 era doom games felt especially coming from open world shooters like far cry, rage 2, fallout 4, and metro exodus.

i think ue5 has just set the bar too high and no one, not even ID tech and ND, can match that cinematic/photorealistic lighting and non-gamey asset quality. its like we are seeing a game from the past ... just on steroids.

 

[March Climber]

Hopefully it's gonna the absolute norm during next-nextgen.

I think a select few dev teams will reach that level mid-PS6 gen. CDPR will be one of them. On the Japanese end I think Kojipro will be the main one to reach larger graphical heights.

Teyon and Saber Interactive will also surprise people on the AA side. They have both shown a lot of promise this generation and Teyon made a rags to riches turnaround in game quality that surprised everyone.

 

[GymWolf]

I think a select few dev teams will reach that level mid-PS6 gen. CDPR will be one of them. On the Japanese end I think Kojipro will be the main one to reach larger graphical heights.

Teyon and Saber Interactive will also surprise people on the AA side. They have both shown a lot of promise this generation and Teyon made a rags to riches turnaround in game quality that surprised everyone.

I'm usually the pessimist one in here, but if small teams with relatively low budget can make stuff like wukong now, i think that many teams are gonna reach that level during nextgen and the top tier teams are gonna show even something better.
The robocop team is gonna reach that level if you consider how certain parts of robocop look.

Some rocks in that video are not even as good as the best rocks in hb2 so it's not a complete defeat even compared to a current gen game.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am laughing at how Ubisoft went out of their way to make hair look amazing, but forgot to update the skin shaders. So you get literally ps3.5 quality faces (no where near ND's best last gen) with some of the best hair physics ive seen in cutscenes. (Dragon Age had very few cutscenes after the first scene so that all that hair tech was basically wasted.) This game looks to have a lot more cutscenes. Im sold.



I need to replay Tsushima though because i remember the cinematography of its cutscenes looking better than this. Such an odd looking game AC shadows. I want to like it but man its like they chose to upgrade all the wrong things.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm usually the pessimist one in here, but if small teams with relatively low budget can make stuff like wukong now, i think that many teams are gonna reach that level during nextgen and the top tier teams are gonna show even something better.
The robocop team is gonna reach that level if you consider how certain parts of robocop look.

Some rocks in that video are not even as good as the best rocks in hb2 so it's not a complete defeat even compared to a current gen game.

next gen is going to be just 30-40 tflops. so 3-4x more powerful. nvidia just phoned in the 5090 which is only 15% faster in UE5 games and 25% on average compared to the 4090. everyone is hitting bottlenecks. ps5 will be lucky to hit 4090 performance, and i dont see how you get those visuals on a 30-35 tflops gpu when everyone is going to be targeting 60 fps next gen.

also, bad news from era. some guy created a thread saying he was told that the ps6 gpu is already done which means it set to release in 2027, not 2028. sony isnt delaying this gen by a year like we all thought. i dont think they get to even 35 tflops by 2027. we will be lucky to get 30 with some AI shit.

 

[March Climber]

I'm usually the pessimist one in here, but if small teams with relatively low budget can make stuff like wukong now, i think that many teams are gonna reach that level during nextgen and the top tier teams are gonna show even something better.
The robocop team is gonna reach that level if you consider how certain parts of robocop look.

Some rocks in that video are not even as good as the best rocks in hb2 so it's not a complete defeat even compared to a current gen game.

I guess we are both thinking of this differently. You are seeing it as two ceilings raising simultaneously, so if the AA devs produce better graphics, the AAA devs should theoretically produce something even better.

The way I see it is that there is already a static upper ceiling that the AAA devs are already near, and the smaller devs near the floor are being collectively pushed up, closer to that same static ceiling, thanks to better dev tools, assets, animation systems, etc.

I'm thinking of it similar to movies and how back in the 1990s and 2000s you needed a certain set of very expensive cameras, mics, studio equipment, etc. to make a film, and now most of the lower cost tools have improved so much to the point where some people are successfully making good independent films with much less money spent.

Will they match a summer blockbuster film in scope? No, but they will instead come closer to films like Good Will Hunting, Whiplash, Pursuit of Happyness, etc. which is still an amazing feat to me.

Funny thing is I always used the average budget Japanese game as a barometer for this. You know, those anime license games or other lower end titles (Like Namco's random B game release for example). If those games come closer and closer to knocking on the door of AAA graphical quality, I then know that things are progressing quite nicely.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah, I mean if you game on PC for some time now, you can figure it out, but it's still weird and as you said, these are basic things, in every game you have under DLSS the usual, Quality, Balanced etc.

i love japanese games but their devs are obtuse. wait till you find out that they designed their own streaming system for rebirth instead of using UE4's which is partly the reason why the textures are ps2 quality in that game.

I have it on 100% and the other 66% at 4K, so far it's ok, a stutter here and there, but it's normal for my Ryzen 5600X, but my God, the lighting in places is atrocious, textures as well.
Normally this should even better, there's no day/night cycle and I doubt NPCs have a Rockstar level simulation, I'm still at the beginning, is the open world one big place or is it composed of a bunch of open ended big areas?

dude you havent seen anything yet. it gets worse. im guessing you are playing the prologue with sephiroth? thats a bad looking area but there are many many more areas that look just as bad if not worse.

as for the open world design, its basically 4-5 different semi open worlds. sprawling but separated by story missions so you need to fast travel between them. each level actually looks surprisingly good compared to the linear levels which look like dogshit. the game is huge. it is literally 100 hours long. And that means they had no time to go in and make every single corridor, cave, room, or town look good. so they went with ps3 era towns and assets and just called it a day. had they used lumen, it might have fixed those lighting issues, but the assets would still look ps3 quality.

the open worlds have great lighting and some gorgeous looking vistas. even the rocks look good at a distance. just dont go near them.

 

[GymWolf]

I am laughing at how Ubisoft went out of their way to make hair look amazing, but forgot to update the skin shaders. So you get literally ps3.5 quality faces (no where near ND's best last gen) with some of the best hair physics ive seen in cutscenes. (Dragon Age had very few cutscenes after the first scene so that all that hair tech was basically wasted.) This game looks to have a lot more cutscenes. Im sold.



I need to replay Tsushima though because i remember the cinematography of its cutscenes looking better than this. Such an odd looking game AC shadows. I want to like it but man its like they chose to upgrade all the wrong things.

Can you really praise what look "almost as good" (but not really imo) compared to freakin fifa2022 tech?

My dude cavani still look much better than naoe

 

[GymWolf]

I guess we are both thinking of this differently. You are seeing it as two ceilings raising simultaneously, so if the AA devs produce better graphics, the AAA devs should theoretically produce something even better.

The way I see it is that there is already a static upper ceiling that the AAA devs are already near, and the smaller devs near the floor are being collectively pushed up, closer to that same static ceiling, thanks to better dev tools, assets, animation systems, etc.

I'm thinking of it similar to movies and how back in the 1990s and 2000s you needed a certain set of very expensive cameras, mics, studio equipment, etc. to make a film, and now most of the lower cost tools have improved so much to the point where some people are successfully making good independent films with much less money spent.

Will they match a summer blockbuster film in scope? No, but they will instead come closer to films like Good Will Hunting, Whiplash, Pursuit of Happyness, etc. which is still an amazing feat to me.

Funny thing is I always used the average budget Japanese game as a barometer for this. You know, those anime license games or other lower end titles (Like Namco's random B game release for example). If those games come closer and closer to knocking on the door of AAA graphical quality, I then know that things are progressing quite nicely.

I was talking broadly, nowadays the lines between AAA devs and AA devs are very blurred, you would expect sushi2 to absolutely trump any AA game, and yet...

 

[SlimySnake]

Can you really praise what look "almost as good" (but not really imo) compared to freakin fifa2022 tech?

My dude cavani still look much better than naoe

Sure. Very few non sports games have hair physics. Let alone big open world games.

Also fifa implemented that dice tech in 2020 lol we have gone four years without anyone using it other than BioWare late last year.

Rockstar is the only other developer using hair physics and that’s good company to be in. Naughty dog cheated and went with a bald character.

 

[rofif]

Can't wait for tomorrow gameplay this definitely look amazing, will be a true show piece of ID TECH engine

Wait so doom finally got good music?
That was great

 

[rofif]

Can you really praise what look "almost as good" (but not really imo) compared to freakin fifa2022 tech?

My dude cavani still look much better than naoe

holy fuck that is real time ?!

 

[GymWolf]

Sure. Very few non sports games have hair physics. Let alone big open world games.

Also fifa implemented that dice tech in 2020 lol we have gone four years without anyone using it other than BioWare late last year.

Rockstar is the only other developer using hair physics and that’s good company to be in. Naughty dog cheated and went with a bald character.

veilguard hair physics was botched, harding has a noticeable flock of hairs in his forehead that don't have the physics of longer hairs, they were just glued together, imo it still looked worse than cavani gif that is pretty incredible...

ND can't really cheat tho, they still have to animate the hairs in the other main characters

 

[SlimySnake]

veilguard hair physics was botched, harding has a noticeable flock of hairs in his forehead that don't have the physics of longer hairs, they were just glued together, imo it still looked worse than cavani gif that is pretty incredible...

Yh not all hair styles had physics applied to them. But that’s ok because they had around 80 and still looked great.

 

[dok1or]

I need to replay Tsushima though because i remember the cinematography of its cutscenes looking better than this. Such an odd looking game AC shadows. I want to like it but man its like they chose to upgrade all the wrong things.

Started playing GoT for first time; HDR, (with HGiG) is great, and game looks very, very good

 

[Schmendrick]

Started playing GoT for first time; HDR, (with HGiG) is great, and game looks very, very good

you might want to rethink the off-screen photography thing. the low light performance of normal cameras simply can`t do it.
This looks like someone rainnbow vomited on your screen as a result.

 

[GymWolf]

My smartphone pics are still unbeaten.

 

[SlimySnake]

Everyone, close your eyes. This is not going to be pretty.

Went back to FF7 rebirth after seeing some cool aerial combat videos, and good god, wtf is this.

 

[SlimySnake]

holy fuck that is real time ?!

yes, dragon age has the same tech, but because bioware is stupid, they didnt mocap much after the first cutscene and settled on simple 1v1 dialogue sequences for the whole game. 1v1 which is mostly stationary so you never get to see the amazing hair after the awesome intro.

 

[Alex11]

i love japanese games but their devs are obtuse. wait till you find out that they designed their own streaming system for rebirth instead of using UE4's which is partly the reason why the textures are ps2 quality in that game.

I just got shivers thinking what they have planned for the 3rd part, since they said they don't want any smoke and mirrors for the world when you're travelling up high, so clearly visually there's gonna be a lot of sacrifices.

dude you havent seen anything yet. it gets worse. im guessing you are playing the prologue with sephiroth? thats a bad looking area but there are many many more areas that look just as bad if not worse.

Fuck me sideways then, can't imagine, art style saves this game so much, the lighting is flatter than a plank at times.

as for the open world design, its basically 4-5 different semi open worlds. sprawling but separated by story missions so you need to fast travel between them. each level actually looks surprisingly good compared to the linear levels which look like dogshit. the game is huge. it is literally 100 hours long. And that means they had no time to go in and make every single corridor, cave, room, or town look good. so they went with ps3 era towns and assets and just called it a day. had they used lumen, it might have fixed those lighting issues, but the assets would still look ps3 quality.

the open worlds have great lighting and some gorgeous looking vistas. even the rocks look good at a distance. just dont go near them.

I wanna say it's still no excuse, but if it's that big, time was a big factor, yeah, I don't know, make it a bit smaller, condensed, not by much, just a bit, trim the useless crap a bit, quality over quantity.
I mean, just in the prologue, you have those sections where you push that fucking vacuum for the mako gas or whatever, that's so pointless, there you have already a few chunks that they could've cut off and I'm guessing there's plenty of that.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is cool lol.



Devs, just let us destroy your world. I would spend hours if desks, chairs, tables and other furniture in games could be destroyed.

 

[March Climber]

This is cool lol.



Devs, just let us destroy your world. I would spend hours if desks, chairs, tables and other furniture in games could be destroyed.

The MGS: Rising conundrum



When you can destroy everything in your way, how does one balance an action game around it? How would one balance NPCs around all of the destructibles and the new variables they would create? Not even Kojima figured it out.

 

[Represent.]

Doom looks underwhelming as fuck, Space Marine 2 looks much better.

 

[Alex11]

Holy shit

 

[SlimySnake]

I just got shivers thinking what they have planned for the 3rd part, since they said they don't want any smoke and mirrors for the world when you're travelling up high, so clearly visually there's gonna be a lot of sacrifices.

Fuck me sideways then, can't imagine, art style saves this game so much, the lighting is flatter than a plank at times.

I wanna say it's still no excuse, but if it's that big, time was a big factor, yeah, I don't know, make it a bit smaller, condensed, not by much, just a bit, trim the useless crap a bit, quality over quantity.
I mean, just in the prologue, you have those sections where you push that fucking vacuum for the mako gas or whatever, that's so pointless, there you have already a few chunks that they could've cut off and I'm guessing there's plenty of that.

There are 100 mini games in this game. I’m not making this up. 100. And they make you play all of them at least once. Pushing that cart in the prologue was the least painful thing I’ve done in this game.

 

[Alex11]

There are 100 mini games in this game. I’m not making this up. 100. And they make you play all of them at least once. Pushing that cart in the prologue was the least painful thing I’ve done in this game.

What the fuck was wrong with having "only" 50 mini games? Well, out the window goes finishing Rebirth now, I clocked 130 hrs on VII Remake, so yeah.