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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

Lethal01

Member
I guess in Anime it look less silly and more cohesive because everything look low detail\stylized, in the game everything is super detailed except the faces.
I guess it's their choice but it looks silly to me and the result is main characters looking less graphically impressive tham random npcs in horizon (because this was my initial point)

Curious to know the excuse when their digital acting in cutscene is also gonna be way inferior to the top dogs in the business...trying to replicate anime is not gonna cut it...

Replicating anime would take more work.;)
Guilty Gear Fire GIF by Xbox


Anyway I don't see it as an excuse, they use the same style for much of their prerendered CG. I'm not saying they won't get more realistic but I think/hope we got another few decades of our main protagonist looking like jpop stars. As they should, get the old men out of video games.
 
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KXVXII9X

Member
Tried the fortnite demos. The dragon was one is rough. Very poor foliage quality. Waterfall looks like a joke. Lighting is good.

The space corridor demo was slightly more impressive. Especially the corridor. Lighting and materials were amazing.

Couldnt get the CoD map to load. And the most impressive demo from that show is still not available. No idea why. That looked better than most games ive seen this gen.
I wasn't as impressed really. I had some fun with the COD map but it most confirmed you can make things look realistic and shiny to be appealing. The Dragon one felt kind of clunky.
 
This is the only gameplay i could find in that gameplay trailer but if it is real and not faked than wow. No way this runs at anything other than 1080p 30 fps on consoles if it ever comes out.

XOw6Lc7.gif
That little snippet of gameplay is what I expected from current gen games. You can tell within a second that absolutely everything visually is ramped up to 11 and not possible on last gen. Very impressive if a shame that most of the game looks like a Quantic Dream game.
 
I can't stand that visual style of Fortnite man. Once tech get more advanced we'll finally be able to move away from painting over meshes, it's absolutely fucking ass; Then you got naive motherfuckers in the media and internet calling that Pixar, just fucking annoying man. Right now gaming is visually in a fucking depression because of games like Fortnite, Valorant, Dota 2 w/e, and y'all are immersed in the shit not realizing it.

Visually this is the worst thing I've seen out of video games man, right up there with the introduction of 'video game ambient occlusion' over some years ago with all that silhouette glowing on meshes and blown out grayscales turning any and every game into horror sitcoms which still hasn't been solve yet, just bad.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That little snippet of gameplay is what I expected from current gen games. You can tell within a second that absolutely everything visually is ramped up to 11 and not possible on last gen. Very impressive if a shame that most of the game looks like a Quantic Dream game.
The only problem I have with that corridor is that its too detailed. Like unreasonably detailed. There is no way a 20-30 hour game with hundreds of environments and corridors can have that much detail for every scene. Even with how easy UE5 has made to pull new assets and place them, i see this as being extremely unrealistic.

This is one of those south korean games that will likely never come out.
 
The only problem I have with that corridor is that its too detailed. Like unreasonably detailed. There is no way a 20-30 hour game with hundreds of environments and corridors can have that much detail for every scene. Even with how easy UE5 has made to pull new assets and place them, i see this as being extremely unrealistic.

This is one of those south korean games that will likely never come out.
Let’s face it, it’s also like most things at that showcase running on a 4090 / high end Intel CPU which together are 3-4x the Series X. Possible on current gen but scaled way back in a variety of ways including resolution and rt.
 

Lethal01

Member
That little snippet of gameplay is what I expected from current gen games. You can tell within a second that absolutely everything visually is ramped up to 11 and not possible on last gen. Very impressive if a shame that most of the game looks like a Quantic Dream game.

All of this look totally doable on last gen gameplay wise.
 

Lethal01

Member
I can't stand that visual style of Fortnite man. Once tech get more advanced we'll finally be able to move away from painting over meshes, it's absolutely fucking ass; Then you got naive motherfuckers in the media and internet calling that Pixar, just fucking annoying man. Right now gaming is visually in a fucking depression because of games like Fortnite, Valorant, Dota 2 w/e, and y'all are immersed in the shit not realizing it.

Visually this is the worst thing I've seen out of video games man, right up there with the introduction of 'video game ambient occlusion' over some years ago with all that silhouette glowing on meshes and blown out grayscales turning any and every game into horror sitcoms which still hasn't been solve yet, just bad.

It's definitely not Pixar, which is good. Fortnite has a nice visual style I'd take it over realism atleast.
 

RaduN

Member
She is supposed to mentally ill, also this is a meta human showcase not the game itself....
Unless she also has a strange face paralysis, then it doesn't work, it just looks off.

I don't know how this meta works, but hopefully the game's expressions will be (much) more subtle and realistic. Technology is definitely there.
 

alloush

Member
“BREAKING: SONY IS DEVELOPING TWO NEW CONSOLES, PS5 SLIM AND PS5 PRO”

This is a very sketchy site 😂
Sony beginning to work on PS6 in 2028 ?
I don’t know if it’s a typo but ..😂
I think they meant the PS6 will be released in 2028 as opposed to 2027. But yeah the whole thing seems unlikely.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
“BREAKING: SONY IS DEVELOPING TWO NEW CONSOLES, PS5 SLIM AND PS5 PRO”

https://www.gizchina.com/2023/03/17...loping-two-new-consoles-ps5-slim-and-ps5-pro/


My hunch tells me there won’t be a pro this gen just a slim but I would be more than happy if there was a pro.
Pro to me is very likely because the console manufacturers are going to have to start reducing the price of base versions soon before they start to see demand fall off. Just look at how the GPU sales fell of a cliff last year once all the hardcore bought those expensive cards. Same thing with steam deck which was sold out all year and then goes on sale this year only to be discounted two months later.

The mid to lower end market is just not going to buy $550 consoles. They might be selling out today but within a few months, i think console sales will go the way of PC GPUs. They will need the slim at $299 and that means selling it at cost. Which means they will need a more expensive option to sell to the high end buyers and thats their $599 meal ticket.

It will just come out a year later than last gen because of the chip shortage and probably because there has no been no IPC gains in RDNA since RDNA 1.0. They have the power budget now to get us a 20-25 tflops GPU but with i think they might want some IPC gains as well and that could RDNA 4.0 or something else. Remember the PS4 Pro was 4 tflops but also had 1.25x IPC gains that made it almost 3x more powerful.
 

alloush

Member
Pro to me is very likely because the console manufacturers are going to have to start reducing the price of base versions soon before they start to see demand fall off. Just look at how the GPU sales fell of a cliff last year once all the hardcore bought those expensive cards. Same thing with steam deck which was sold out all year and then goes on sale this year only to be discounted two months later.

The mid to lower end market is just not going to buy $550 consoles. They might be selling out today but within a few months, i think console sales will go the way of PC GPUs. They will need the slim at $299 and that means selling it at cost. Which means they will need a more expensive option to sell to the high end buyers and thats their $599 meal ticket.

It will just come out a year later than last gen because of the chip shortage and probably because there has no been no IPC gains in RDNA since RDNA 1.0. They have the power budget now to get us a 20-25 tflops GPU but with i think they might want some IPC gains as well and that could RDNA 4.0 or something else. Remember the PS4 Pro was 4 tflops but also had 1.25x IPC gains that made it almost 3x more powerful.
That's a very good take, didn't think of it this way. The reason why I didn't think there will be a Pro version this gen is cuz firstly the gen has just properly taken off after the chip shortage, so not a lotta people have a PS5 yet but this is slowly changing. And secondly, I thought the the current PS5 is powerful enough to not warrant a Pro version. Having said that, I would never say no to a Pro version ever. Imagine an even more powerful PS5 that would be absolutely amazing. The PS4 Pro was a much needed addition to the PS family and us who owned it noticed the difference between it and the original PS4. The question is, if there were to be a Pro version how much more powerful would it be compared to the current PS5?
 
If anyone wondered why some of us kept demanding better physics in games..



I’m hoping more developers step their shit up.


It really fucking passes me off that this kind of smoke/steam doesn't exist in the Dead Space Remake. On ps5. Does it on PC or is this just another fucking lie from a dev?

I was play8ng the other day in fidelity mode. Got all excited the first time I was in a room with a lot of steam because I wanted to see this "new tech" in this game on my next gen console and .. nothing...I walked through it, ran through it, fired my guns ...it didn't seem interact at all.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
It really fucking passes me off that this kind of smoke/steam doesn't exist in the Dead Space Remake. On ps5. Does it on PC or is this just another fucking lie from a dev?

I was play8ng the other day in fidelity mode. Got all excited the first time I was in a room with a lot of steam because I wanted to see this "new tech" in this game on my next gen console and .. nothing...I walked through it, ran through it, fired my guns ...it didn't seem interact at all.
Callisto has it iirc. Havent played either game but I think i saw DF talking about Callisto's interactive fog.

Returnal had it but only in one boss room.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That's a very good take, didn't think of it this way. The reason why I didn't think there will be a Pro version this gen is cuz firstly the gen has just properly taken off after the chip shortage, so not a lotta people have a PS5 yet but this is slowly changing. And secondly, I thought the the current PS5 is powerful enough to not warrant a Pro version. Having said that, I would never say no to a Pro version ever. Imagine an even more powerful PS5 that would be absolutely amazing. The PS4 Pro was a much needed addition to the PS family and us who owned it noticed the difference between it and the original PS4. The question is, if there were to be a Pro version how much more powerful would it be compared to the current PS5?
Looking at how poorly Matrix and other RT games run on the PS5 and XSX, i immediately knew these consoles would need a Pro. And yeah, i bought the pro on day one and was blown away by every single game i played on it even before i got a 4ktv. Most sub 60 fps games like BF1 were now a locked 60 fps. Supersampling in ratchet made it look CG. 4k just made everything appear so much more crisper and cleaner.

As for the specs, I was team 14 tflops so dont take my word for it, but the new 7900xtx is a 54 tflops 310 watt card with clocks that go even higher, but so does the tdp. Still, at 310 watts, it is roughly equivalent to the 25 tflops 6950xt's tdp which should be the same 2.2x boost Cerny managed to give us with the PRO. 150 watt chip without the CPU is probably too much to ask but they should be able to hit 20 tflops at the very least.
 

CamHostage

Member
If anyone wondered why some of us kept demanding better physics in games..



I’m hoping more developers step their shit up.


Eh... i don't know if that's what I'd qualify as breakthrough physics to hope for?

What I saw was an unusually boxy voxel system (usually they try to hide the grid its limited to) where blocks propagate out in a range of space, with each block having its own smoky value, and it all kind of relates the cloudiness to other grid neighbors or the terrain variations (plus a weird feature where you can blow "holes" in the smoke?)

It does make for cool game play possibilities (and that should be most of what matters.) But as far as looking and moving like real smoke, we've done cleaner and/or the cheapy solutions look nicer. This isn't new or "next gen", this is just an effect most developers wouldn't use because it's not a seamless visual. It works for CS though, hopefully.
 
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This is truly remarkable stuff considering it took them 3 minutes to capture and render all of this.

7Oc1dDq.gif


I really fucking hope stuff like Lumens, Nanite and this significantly shortens game dev times.
It’s not so much the game dev times as the difficulty IMO…making tedious tasks easy is great for AAA development, when games are more complex then they have ever been…TLOU 2 took about 6 plus years for that quality…which is unmatched IMO…
 

alloush

Member
Looking at how poorly Matrix and other RT games run on the PS5 and XSX, i immediately knew these consoles would need a Pro. And yeah, i bought the pro on day one and was blown away by every single game i played on it even before i got a 4ktv. Most sub 60 fps games like BF1 were now a locked 60 fps. Supersampling in ratchet made it look CG. 4k just made everything appear so much more crisper and cleaner.

As for the specs, I was team 14 tflops so dont take my word for it, but the new 7900xtx is a 54 tflops 310 watt card with clocks that go even higher, but so does the tdp. Still, at 310 watts, it is roughly equivalent to the 25 tflops 6950xt's tdp which should be the same 2.2x boost Cerny managed to give us with the PRO. 150 watt chip without the CPU is probably too much to ask but they should be able to hit 20 tflops at the very least.
Yeah I had the same experience and reaction when I got the PS4 Pro. I was like damn this shoulda been the launch PS4 honestly. It felt like getting a totally new console. I am praying for a Pro version for the PS5, I wonder how would The Matrix run on a Pro version. I was team 14 tflops as well, at the time I was just lurking I did not engage but I remember that long ass thread prior to the launch of the new consoles, I think that thread is goated man, best thread I have ever seen.

Anything above 20 tflops for a Pro version would be absolutely amazing. I am also team 2028 for the PS6, I feel like 2027 is a year too early, heck I wouldn't even mind it if the PS6 came out in 2030. I feel like we haven't even kick-started this gen yet not to mention the whole chip shortage thing. We don't have proper next gen games yet either, so 2028-2030 timeframe for the PS6 is ideal.

Edit: I'd also like to add that everything we saw or all the gorgeous demos that we all loved at the State of Unreal were running on a 4090 meaning if we want these things to run on our PS5's/Series X's the way we saw it running in the State of Unreal then we will probably need a Pro.
 
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Eh... i don't know if that's what I'd qualify as breakthrough physics to hope for?

What I saw was an unusually boxy voxel system (usually they try to hide the grid its limited to) where blocks propagate out in a range of space, with each block having its own smoky value, and it all kind of relates the cloudiness to other grid neighbors or the terrain variations (plus a weird feature where you can blow "holes" in the smoke?)

It makes for cool game play possibilities (and that should be most of what matters,) but as far as looking and moving like real smoke, we've done cleaner and/or the cheapy solutions look nicer. This isn't new or "next gen", this is just an effect most developers wouldn't use because it's not a seamless visual. It works for CS though, hopefully.
This man deadass has a Space Ghost avatar from the Adult Swim show. Anyway, yes from a realistic pov the smoke looks like ass, but put me on the team of physics not having to be 1:1 compared to the real world in games especially if it's done in service of the gameplay for players.

For the first time I'm actually going to get off 1.6 to try out CS 2.
 

alloush

Member
I am not sure which conclusion are you going to deduce from this, the devs are not optimizing the PS5 version of the games and being hella lazy/incompetent or that the PS4 is a mighty impressive hardware still delivering great visuals till this day:

 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am not sure which conclusion are you going to deduce from this, the devs are not optimizing the PS5 version of the games and being hella lazy/incompetent or that the PS4 is a mighty impressive hardware still delivering great visuals till this day:


I think its the latter. They finally reduced the resolution of the base PS4 version from 1080p to 900p like GG did for HFW and were able to get a lot more out of that console. Yeah, the game isnt terribly optimized on PS5 but capcom wanted it shipped in march for their fiscal year so i expect most bugs to be fixed in the next couple of days.

I think not having to make games for x1's 1.3 tflops GPU also helped. This might not have even run at 720p on the X1. I remember village looking really blurry on the x1. Like really really bad. Removing that as the lowest common denominator and making PS4 effectively the base has helped them achieve visuals that are way better than what we saw in RE2 and even Village which was also cross gen.

It's no HFW or Demon Souls but it looks better than Dead Space, Forspoken, Hogwarts, Star wars and other so called next gen only games.
 

Neilg

Member
I think you misunderstood? I was referring to the specialisation of Unreal 5, which just seems to be a generation ahead of what even the best studios have come up with.

I hope I'm wrong but we've seen no sign of anything competitive so far.

In house engines dont need to be marketing to people to get users, and developers dont need to release a tech demo of engine features 3 years before their game comes out to get revenue. The only exception is when sony or MS pays them to in the lead up to a new console.
You'll see in house engines 'catch up' alongside genuinely next-gen UE5 games releasing.

None of the tech in Ue5 is a dark art - it's mostly based on publicly available research papers.
 
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Neilg

Member
I really fucking hope stuff like Lumens, Nanite and this significantly shortens game dev times.

lol it wont. it'll make it easier for smaller teams to hit a AAA visual quality, but it's not going to make AAA game development go faster.
The grunt work that UE is saving time on is all fairly low level tasks that were outsourced. it'll reduce overhead and raise the quality, but nobody is going to shave 6 months off development with these tools.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think you misunderstood? I was referring to the specialisation of Unreal 5, which just seems to be a generation ahead of what even the best studios have come up with.

I hope I'm wrong but we've seen no sign of anything competitive so far.
sorry. yes, it seems I did misunderstand.

I half agree with Nelig. I think other engines will get there eventually as they finally move to next gen only development, but the fact that they have been working on last gen games for the first three years of gen makes me think they are like 3 years behind Epic.

Lets hope Team Ice over at ND has been working in secret on improvement to their TLOU engine, and KojiPro has been making these changes to the Decima engine while GG was busy with HFW and its DLC. Sadly, video game developers treat video games like nuclear secrets and wont reveal the fact that they are even working on a video game until their marketing cycle is ready. Look at how they already revealed Abby in the poster of TLOU season 2. Meanwhile Neil is literally the co-president of Naughty Dog and cant confirm if hes working on TLOU Part 3 even though its likely been in dev for 3 years.

Cory has been working on his new IP since April 2018. Thats 5 years lol. I am guessing he had some engineers and designers prototyping stuff while the main team worked on Ragnorak. Highly doubt they just sat on their ass waiting for the other team to finish. At the very least, they must have made changes to their engine to add some of this lumens, physics and fluid simulations. Nanite or mesh shader support for their first next gen only title is probably hoping for too much.

And like I said earlier, the meta human facial animation tech is something they can probably license without having to switch to Unreal Engine 5. Just like Quixel Megascans pretty much everyone uses nowadays. You dont need UE5 for that even though Epic now owns Quixel. Bend will likely just move on to UE5, but Sucker Punch will probably just upgrade their current gen like Ubisoft's Massive did for Avatar. Remember, Avatar apparently has ray traced foliage and they said that their tech would work on both RT accelerated GPUs and a software version for non RT GPUs. sounds a lot like hardware and software lumens to me.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol it wont. it'll make it easier for smaller teams to hit a AAA visual quality, but it's not going to make AAA game development go faster.
The grunt work that UE is saving time on is all fairly low level tasks that were outsourced. it'll reduce overhead and raise the quality, but nobody is going to shave 6 months off development with these tools.
lol I try to bring SOME hope into this thread and you have to shoot it down immediately. lmao

I do think game engines can be a big roadblock in game dev. You heard the Hellblade actress say that it takes several months to get the mocap data back. Surely this new tech would help them iterate faster. We also saw just how much Bioware and other EA studios struggled adopting to Frostbite last gen. We've seen CD Project struggle with their own internal engine releasing one of the buggiest games of all time after a long 5 year dev cycle finally switch to UE5. they must have done it for a reason.

Whatever helps dev get into actually developing games than waiting for the engine to be ready is going to be beneficial in the long run. The creating of multiple LODs for every object is probably outsourced yes so nanite wont revolutionize everything, but what they've done with their paritition tech allowing multiple devs to work on one level WILL help streamline dev. Lumens will help artists and devs not waste hours trying to bake lighting. Not all of this work is outsourced since artists and designers want more control over the overall look of the game instead of pawning them off to devs in singapore and india. They're all already using Quixel Megascans (RE4 uses them) and that also helps reduce dev time.

Every little thing helps.
 

Neilg

Member
Every little thing helps.

You're entirely right on all points - but I think the mistake you make is thinking game developers ambition isn't going to expand to fill the gap. If for the next 5 years, the games of today were considered the pinnacle and not worth iterating on, you'd be spot on - dev time will get shorter.
But what's actually going to happen is games will continue to get more ambitious and complex - and it's because of all this that will happen.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You're entirely right on all points - but I think the mistake you make is thinking game developers ambition isn't going to expand to fill the gap. If for the next 5 years, the games of today were considered the pinnacle and not worth iterating on, you'd be spot on - dev time will get shorter.
But what's actually going to happen is games will continue to get more ambitious and complex - and it's because of all this that will happen.
You're right. Didnt think of it like that. I wonder thats why we havent seen Cory's new game or TLOU3 yet despite them being in production for long. They might be more ambitious than we think.

Fingers crossed.
 

alloush

Member
I think its the latter. They finally reduced the resolution of the base PS4 version from 1080p to 900p like GG did for HFW and were able to get a lot more out of that console. Yeah, the game isnt terribly optimized on PS5 but capcom wanted it shipped in march for their fiscal year so i expect most bugs to be fixed in the next couple of days.

I think not having to make games for x1's 1.3 tflops GPU also helped. This might not have even run at 720p on the X1. I remember village looking really blurry on the x1. Like really really bad. Removing that as the lowest common denominator and making PS4 effectively the base has helped them achieve visuals that are way better than what we saw in RE2 and even Village which was also cross gen.

It's no HFW or Demon Souls but it looks better than Dead Space, Forspoken, Hogwarts, Star wars and other so called next gen only games.
I didn’t even know they totally ditched Xbox One, that’s actually a smart decision making the base PS4 the lowest common denominator. I wish more studios did that coupled with the decrease in res so that the cross gen games we are getting today would look much better cuz this game does look better than Dead Space, Forspoken and all these guys.
 

alloush

Member
You're entirely right on all points - but I think the mistake you make is thinking game developers ambition isn't going to expand to fill the gap. If for the next 5 years, the games of today were considered the pinnacle and not worth iterating on, you'd be spot on - dev time will get shorter.
But what's actually going to happen is games will continue to get more ambitious and complex - and it's because of all this that will happen.
That’s an interesting take. I hope you’re right though, I hope all these advancements in tech reducing the huge amount of time it requires to make these games allows them to be more ambitious and innovate elsewhere within said games.
 
Nothing here that wouldn't work with worse graphics on ps4.
Well… obviously. This is a graphics thread though.

Visually everything on show in the small shooting snippet isn’t possible on even the Pro or the X nevermind XBO or PS4. The geometry, textures, shaders, lighting, models and IQ are well above anything from last gen.
 
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