ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Let me rephrase this, some of the environments look great, but not “OMGZ the graphics!!!1!!1!” Great.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
arkhamguy123
Member
Yeah I just completely disagree again.
Aaron Olive
Member
While the clouds are similar its crazy how far ahead the cg trailer still is in fidelity that trailer is still impressive and atmospheric....what was sony thinking passing that shit off as realtime lol.They finally did it lol.
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Clouds finally look like the infamous KZ2 trailer. Better actually
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Lethal01
Member
Absolutely not getting decent realtime dynamic lighting in games should be our number one priority right now, everything else comes after.
Lethal01
Member
No that's silly, hardware resources are not infinite, neither is time or budget.
Focus is necessary. I'm sure there will be exceptions that do it better than everyone else because of both skill, far bigger teams/ higher budget and honestly just getting lucky enough not to run into big issues during dev.
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LiquidJensen
Banned
Why’s is that? I genuinely wanna know.
I know i was kinda joking. It sucks cause there "both" really important right now.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Because without good lighting the assets will not look as good simple as that. Disable Path tracing and the scene in the images will not look as good or real.
CamHostage
Member
I mean, I love it... but it's a lot of baked flipbook animations and calculated-over-time particle simulations, it's not exactly a realtime, in-game, interactive system. You can build effects for games, and use them inside live gameplay, but if you're thinking that EmberGen lets designers just drop in realtime smoke and flames wherever fire comes out or detonates any building/bridge with a live particle simulation when you drop a bomb, i think that's not really what this visual effects tool would be used for.
(BTW, a large percentage if not all of the fire effects in the Hellblade 2 demo use EmberGen effects processes, so you're in luck, it IS the focus for nextgen...
I do love me Ryan Corniel puppet demos! The Jim Henson Company should find this guy and make some sort of Muppets game with weird interactivity, not as some generic platformer or adventure game but as a puzzle or experimental game made of felt and fuzz.
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“Several PlayStation Studios are making games in Horizon Forbidden West's engine”
https://www.gamesradar.com/several-...king-games-in-horizon-forbidden-wests-engine/
https://www.gamesradar.com/several-...king-games-in-horizon-forbidden-wests-engine/
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
Dam that hair shit is pretty impressive
aries_71
Junior Member
Wow. Wow at Flight Simulator. Those videos are breathtaking.There is already a flight game with better clouds and it even has the Top Gun DLC. We don't need another one, let them focus on games like Killzone and Horizon or a new ip.
Thats really impressive for a game like Horizon, the clouds look close to MFS while doing all the other impressive things on the ground. It was already the best looking game on console and now with all those upgrades it looks even better. Also notice the speed that thing is flying, its much faster than the base game.
But these are games, not film. How come games that existed before motion blur was a thing seemed perfectly smooth? Are you saying Virtua Fighter 2 wasn’t smooth? What about Quake 3? Looked pretty smooth to me. It seems you’re stating these things must look unnatural and choppy because they don’t use motion blur. These two examples prove that motion blur isn’t needed for computer graphics to appear to move smoothly.
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Exactly. Seems strange he is so insistent that all video games must look like they were filmed. Uh, hell no! Now, if a developer is wanting that look, more power to them. But there is no reason it should be the default for all games.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I figured as much after seeing Epic charge 12% just to license their engine. IIRC, only Sony Bend used UE4 last gen so it will be interesting to see if Sony forced them to switch to Decima.
There goes that dream of Sony engineers using nanite. Lumens I think they can figure out since its basically dynamic GI but nanite and choas physics? I dont know. I dont think i saw a single physics heavy game from a sony studio last gen. At least DICE has had destruction built into their engines. Sony devs have made some very sterile and baked worlds. Horizon looks gorgeous but these massive machines dont do anything to foliage, dont tear down trees or buildings. Hell, Zelda has better physics and it barely looks like a PS3 game. Clearly physics and destruction were not a priority for these studios, I was hoping that would change next gen but would they bother spending time on adding something similar to chaos physics? Doubt it. I guess we will find out with spiderman 2.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Slightly. Lighting looks good. Environments are densely detailed. But it still doesnt look next gen.
Maybe PS4.5 like Demon Souls and Ratchet. Maybe 4.3.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I don't think it looks as good as demon or ratchet tbh.
But the game is out in a few weeks so it's better to judge without the yt compression.
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Really harsh to call Ratchet PS4.5. It's a completely credible next gen game, just like something like Infamous SS was back in the day.
GymWolf
Gold Member
It still has locations that are not up the par with the best in the game.
Like the space city or the pirate cantina looks basically like bootleg pixar movie, but some more natural focused location don't look nearly as good (textures take a hit)
Characters are best in the business in the pixar looking genre but i think that making realistic graphic is way harder so hfw take the cake, both are superior to demons to me, and way better than jedi survivor.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nah, its outclassed by Horizon in its open world areas. That should never happen to a next gen only game.
Ratchet himself doesnt look next gen. He looks better than the PS4 game but a whole gen better? Nah, i think Aloy got a bigger boost going from PS4 to PS5.
I think Insomniac made a piss poor decision target native 4k 50 fps in fidelity mode WITH ray tracing. They wasted so much of the GPU on rendering pixels that couldve been spent on pushing visual fidelity. Recently GT7 got a 120 fps patch and it secretly unlocked the game's native 4k 60 fps mode which now hits over 100 fps at native 4k. Just a bizarre use of GPU resources by Sony studios this gen. Up the detail FFS.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
BTW, I think Ratchet looks phenomenal. Me saying its a PS4.5 game is a complement. I think everything else this gen save for maybe Flight Sim has been PS4.0. Yes, Including HFW.
This looks really good.
But this is what Im expecting this gen. Both are running at native 4k 30 fps on a PS5. At least in cutscenes. I just think we will have to wait for 2028 to get it.
This looks really good.
But this is what Im expecting this gen. Both are running at native 4k 30 fps on a PS5. At least in cutscenes. I just think we will have to wait for 2028 to get it.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
To be fair this was Performance mode .. fidelity (hopefully 40 fps) will look a lot better
They didn't target 4k50fps - the game just runs at that when unlocked. In fact I'm pretty sure the game isn't even locked 4k30 anyway, so I'm not sure how credibly you can even say their framerate is targeted too high above the 30fps lock. It probably is a bit, but it's hardly like they're just brute forcing it.
For me it's fairly close to the right choice of performance/pixels - 1600/1800p at 60fps. It should perhaps be a bit lower - in fact it is, if you value the RT (which I don't) - but I don't think you really want to go too far below 1440p this generation. And obviously 30fps is a non-starter.
And the game looks fantastic. In pretty much every level it's a clear step beyond anything else I've played on the PS5. And easily the equivalent of prior generational leaps.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ok, target is probably incorrect, but it gets up there if you unlock the framerate on a vrr tv. in some areas it is around 40 fps, in others it goes all the way up to 50 fps. If they targeted native 4k 30 fps, and left that much performance on the table, id argue that they didnt do a good job understanding just how powerful this console is.
I dont think 30 fps is a non-starter. Zelda is going to come out in a few weeks and it will end up winning all the GOTY awards. RDR2 was my game of the generation, 30 fps. I think they should be targeting 1440p 30 fps with ray tracing and have a 1080p 60 fps mode for 60 fps purists. Especially now that we are close to getting a mid gen refresh where these games will run at native 4k anyway. its pointless to target such high native resolutions on what should be the baseline machine.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
GT7 hitting 100+ fps in its resolution mode is actually very frustrating because they couldve done so much more with the PS5 version. RT reflections are typically a 35% hit on PCs. Assuming on AMD GPUs, its 50%, fine, implement dynamic resolution in the rare instance it dips below 60 fps. I think DF found that in night time races with rain, it dropped below 60 fps. We now see that in 99% of the races it runs around 90-110 fps. thats 50-80% better performance. Add RT. Add better trees. Add better rain. More destruction. Target 1800p if you must. Dont just waste those precious tflops on rendering pixels and frames that no one saw for a year because the game didnt support vrr.
If they release a midgen console I can play at least 1440p (ish) at 60fps then that's all fine by me. But I'm not fucking playing 30fps games anymore, they're beyond shit and need to be left in the past. And I don't want to go back to 1080p either - it looks bad on a 4k tv if you ask me. I'm not really sure how low you can go resolution wise and get away with it. HFW in performance mode looks great, for example.
I actually agree with you that Ratchet has too high a resolution and one can therefore infer that it should look even better. Where I don't agree is extending that to claiming that it therefore doesn't actually look that great. Nah. It looks fucking amazing. To think that it should look EVEN better really is something. What they put out is years ahead of the competition, especially considering the power wasted on RT.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think it looks phenomenal. I just think next to stuff like Matrix and other UE5 demos and Horizon, it doesnt look a gen apart. Lots of caveat i get it.
I hate 1080p games like Batman AK and DriveClub on my 4k tv. But honestly if Matrix is dipping to 1080p in some spots, im not seeing it. Modern reconstruction techniques have gotten really good. HFW is only 2.8 million pixels, half way between 1080p (2.1 million) and 1440p (3.6 million) and it looks just fine on a 4k screen. They should all target that. Their 40 fps 4kcb mode (4.1 million pixels) looks almost as good as their native 4k (8.2 million pixels) too. Yes, i can tell the difference but honestly, if i never saw the native 4k mode, i wouldnt be able to tell the difference.
P.S Im with you on 30 fps. Thats why i bought a 3080 early this gen when i typically wait for mid gen to build my PC. i played HFW, ratchet and Miles in 30 fps and while i got used to it, i would rather play these games at 60 fps on day one. I just think baseline consoles should be treated like baseline. If Spiderman 2 comes out this year or next year and is targeting native 4k 30 fps and it pushes no physics, no destruction and no fancy AI let alone visuals then yeah, i will be very disappointed at the native 4k target.
Yeah I actually got banned at the time for complaining about GT7's graphics cos they thought I was trolling.
If they literally JUST sorted the trees, that would've been enough for me. Just that alone would make a massive difference. But no, not even that. Instead you get a choice of like 30 thousand different paint jobs and some bizarre mode based on driving to music beats or something. I think at this point Kaz is basically just the archetypal insane creative that nobody dares say no to.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol I think remember that.
And yeah, Kaz has to be brought under control. I am a huge fan of GT Sports' online innovations. I think he's a visionary but I cant believe he just added a campaign mode to the fully featured sequel 5 years in the making and called it a day. GT is supposed to be much more ambitious than this.
Yeah I think you need some sort of reconstruction, generally. Until recently I thought (from my viewing distance of like 9-10 ft from a 65" screen) that 1440p and 4k were more or less indistinguishable, but a couple of games have really surprised me recently: FF7 is a huge difference between 4k and the 60fps mode. It's probably the worst looking 60fps I've seen this gen. And the 120fps mode on GT7 - again, much softer and lots of IQ issues.
Whereas I literally can't tell the difference between HFW in fidelity and performance. Not a small difference that I can tolerate. Absolutely zero difference.
Thank god for FSR I suppose.
Imtjnotu
Member
probably the best smoke and fire ive seen for real time
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Yeah I really need to apologize because I have downplayed this game's visuals a few times here in the past. Don't know what I was thinking but yeah this game is a looker especially on an OLED. I've picked it back up in anticipation of Burning Shores. Man I really think we are going to get a certified next gen experience in a couple weeks. Something keeps telling me they have completely solved LOD management in their engine. That has been the holy grail for me in terms of open world gaming. Even with the compressed 720p garbage twitter video they showed last week I still easily noticed improvements in geometric density. Can't wait.
This image doesn’t do this game justice, it looks so good on my oled in 4k hdr.
Johnny Concrete
Member
Not realtime?
It’s composited with Nuke, you even see it in the mini breakdown.
Embergen is pretty damn cool, though. There is a realtime plugin for UE, but it’s really heavy from what I’ve heard.
For all the particle fetish people in here: what do you think of FF16’s effects?
I’ve never seen anything like it in games before. Especially the sparks around characters ‘charging up’ and such.
Not realtime but still some killer Flipbooks can be created with this.Not realtime?
It’s composited with Nuke, you even see it in the mini breakdown.
Embergen is pretty damn cool, though. There is a realtime plugin for UE, but it’s really heavy from what I’ve heard.
For all the particle fetish people in here: what do you think of FF16’s effects?
I’ve never seen anything like it in games before. Especially the sparks around characters ‘charging up’ and such.
Listen I want fully realtime fluid dynamic high res voxel sims like everyone else but at this point higher fidelity flipbooks isnt something im gonna scoff at when were still digging for scraps.
HighPoly
Banned
hey guys, Can you imagine how beautiful the Nintendo's next gen games gonna look like??
I mean, if the next console make around 1,8 Teraflops on portable mode, and around 3,0 Teraflops on Dock mode??
Like, remember Horizon Zero Dawn and Last of Us 2 runs in solid 1080p at 30fps, with amazing visuals on PS4. So imagine a next Zelda or a next Mario, using those 1,8 TF to make better geometries and textures.
I mean, if the next console make around 1,8 Teraflops on portable mode, and around 3,0 Teraflops on Dock mode??
Like, remember Horizon Zero Dawn and Last of Us 2 runs in solid 1080p at 30fps, with amazing visuals on PS4. So imagine a next Zelda or a next Mario, using those 1,8 TF to make better geometries and textures.
Lethal01
Member
Just slapping 4k resolution on BoTW makes it one of the best looking games out there.
Aaron Olive
Member
Just slapping 4k resolution on BoTW makes it one of the best looking games out there.
The low Fidelity of Nintendo.
Lethal01
Member
Yep, their art is very held back by their hardware, but it's still some of the best art in the industry.
The fact they aren't aiming for realism makes the only big issue the low resolution turning that great art into a jagged, blurry mess.
Once that fixed no realistic game can compare even if they managed to get full pathtracing on it.
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Aaron Olive
Member
BoTW is severely lacking in contrast, it's like a white filter on top.
mxbison
Member
Not entirely sure but I think lighting is the biggest thing holding back destructible and dynamic environments. When you blow a hole in the wall and don't have dynamic light to shine in, it will look crap.
There is a reason "ugly" games like Red Faction and Teardown are the best we've gotten in terms of destructible environments.
So yeah, Ray Tracing > everything else pretty much. It's more than just pretty reflections.
Lethal01
Member
I thought it worked for the game and looked nice most of the time , Constant Vibrancy and High Contrast does not equal better, you can do great low contrast art.
Again though I'm playing at 4k 60 where everything is sharp and clear, I suppose I can see it being too much if you are playing at 720p 30fps.
But I'm just going off my experience and imo
_____
This looks gorgeous, Every attempt I've seen people make at upping the contrast and saturation just makes it look worse to me.
Aaron Olive
Member
Last Nintendo game I played was Super Mario sunshine in 2003 and that was when Enter the Matrix came out. I wish Nintendo would pull their foot out their mouth and make a serious console again, imagine a Zelda or Mario game with ratchet and clank fidelity.
I thought it worked for the game and looked nice most of the time , Constant Vibrancy and High Contrast does not equal better, you can do great low contrast art.
Again though I'm playing at 4k 60 where everything is sharp and clear, I suppose I can see it being too much if you are playing at 720p 30fps.
But I'm just going off my experience and imo
_________
This looks gorgeous, Every attempt I've seen people make at upping the contrast and saturation just makes it look worse to me.
