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[dgrdsv]

Are you serious? It takes a 5090 to get 100 fps at 1080p. And then there are the stutters. And the crashes. Its obvious that BL4 is an unpolished mess of a game.

It is a bit unoptimized but the problem with BL4 is of a different type - using UE5 for a game with cell shaded cartoony graphics is a bad decision from the get go.
You're not getting anything which couldn't be baked back in UE3 in this case while you still pay all the performance hits associated with Lumen.
This game would be better off not using Lumen (even if that would mean more work for the art team) as this would net them some 2X of performance easily while not making the visuals much worse.
It's a puzzling design decision on part of the developer. I do hope that someone will make Lumen On/Off comparisons - but even in that case it wouldn't be very enlightening as the game's obviously missing precomputed lighting right now.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Aw, shit, rather not. While Kirk man certainly said some messed-up shit and certainly wasn't exactly pro-free speech

What?

 

[GymWolf]

Let's not get political here guys.

 

[Gonzito]

I just bought Dying Light the beast and Silent Hill F. Hopefully they run well and look good. I am excited for these games

 

[Bojji]

Let's not get political here guys.

Yep, we lost Killjoy-NL because he couldn't help himself and defended employees on Sony Corporation.

My quarrels with Sony fans will never be the same...

 

[SlimySnake]

What?

Not here

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Not here

Man, I know there's a thread for that, but fucking hell, this is some next-level bullshit.

 

[Gonzito]

Not here

So why did you like his post then?

 

[GymWolf]

Papito let's not turn this topic into off topic 2.

 

[SlimySnake]

So why did you like his post then?

I was taken aback by the glee jumping on his grave.

, but the guy just died, and he left his wife and kids. Basic decency is allowing for empathy there and just not talking shit about him online and in the media for at least a few weeks while they grieve.

This is why.

Regardless. Not here. This is a graphics thread.

 

[Lootlord]

I just bought Dying Light the beast and Silent Hill F. Hopefully they run well and look good. I am excited for these games

Never go full preorder...

 

[Toots]

Little side note, do you think neil is the sole repsonsible for ND graphic and animation prowess?

I think he is like what? 5% of the process at the very best?

Why are you giving him this much credit? i don't think he even decide if the game is 30 or 60 tbh, that's probably the actual graphic designers if not sony telling all his studios to make 60 frames games full stop.

Isn't he mostly a (shit) story telller?

He is the one who wanted eveyone to feel miserable playing the game (and developing it, apparently he forced his animators to watch gruesome executions videos so the game would have "realistic" violence (no one told him about the 5foot 120lbs protag beating up 250lbs enemies i guess).
ANd as a director he is responsible for the coherence of the game, artistically and storywise (not the gameplay tho it was someone else, thank god).
His vision is what the devs tried their best to achieve and every technological choice is made with his vision in mind.

So yes everyflaw in a naughty dog game is his goddam fault, especially since he managed to push away any codirector (like stralhey or henning) who could push back on his moronic ideas and edgy cw storytelling.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Borderlands looks gorgeous. I would like more AAA games to experiment with the cel shaded artstyle.

I'm replaying the first one right now because I got that Borderlands itch, but I refuse to pay more than about 5 EUR for Borderlands, and it still holds up to this day. They made the right choice switching the art style so late into development. Here's an interesting video about how Borderlands got its art style and where they stole it from:

 

[Gonzito]

Never go full preorder...

I have confidence in these two upcoming games. If I dont like them or there is something weird going on I can always refund

 

[Toots]

Yep, we lost Killjoy-NL because he couldn't help himself and defended employees on Sony Corporation.

My quarrels with Sony fans will never be the same...

We lost killjoy because he forgot the first and only rule of trolling on a forum and got serious when he should have not cared at all and just stay afk for a minute.

 

[SlimySnake]

He is the one who wanted eveyone to feel miserable playing the game (and developing it, apparently he forced his animators to watch gruesome executions videos so the game would have "realistic" violence (no one told him about the 5foot 120lbs protag beating up 250lbs enemies i guess).
ANd as a director he is responsible for the coherence of the game, artistically and storywise (not the gameplay tho it was someone else, thank god).
His vision is what the devs tried their best to achieve and every technological choice is made with his vision in mind.

So yes everyflaw in a naughty dog game is his goddam fault, especially since he managed to push away any codirector (like stralhey or henning) who could push back on his moronic ideas and edgy cw storytelling.

He was boasting about how he kept sending his character artists back to make her arms bigger and bigger. They were like wtf and he kept sending them back saying more. The end result was literally someone who looked like a clown.

If you watch the Paris gameshow trailer which released in 2017, her arms aren't that bad.

 

[GudOlRub]

He is the one who wanted eveyone to feel miserable playing the game (and developing it, apparently he forced his animators to watch gruesome executions videos so the game would have "realistic" violence (no one told him about the 5foot 120lbs protag beating up 250lbs enemies i guess).
ANd as a director he is responsible for the coherence of the game, artistically and storywise (not the gameplay tho it was someone else, thank god).
His vision is what the devs tried their best to achieve and every technological choice is made with his vision in mind.

So yes everyflaw in a naughty dog game is his goddam fault, especially since he managed to push away any codirector (like stralhey or henning) who could push back on his moronic ideas and edgy cw storytelling.

Iirc that rumour about artists being forced to watch gore videos was debunked.
They did watch videos to use as reference yes, but no one at naughty dog forced them to do it.
There were even ND staff talking about how ridiculous those rumours were but it seems they have quit twitter and the tweets are gone as well.

Do you understand the kind of shitstorm that would ensue if people were actually forced to do something like that?

The media would have a field day dunking on Naughty Dog just like they did with Rockstar when Dan or Sam(?) made that unfortunate commentary about people working 100h weeks during RDR2's development.

I did not enjoy TLOU2's story, Druckmann is a hack if he actually thinks its story is a masterpiece but some of these stories used to shit on him and/or the game are ridiculous.

 

[SlimySnake]

Iirc that rumour about artists being forced to watch gore videos was debunked.
They did watch videos to use as reference yes, but no one at naughty dog forced them to do it.
There were even ND staff talking about how ridiculous those rumours were but it seems they have quit twitter and the tweets are gone as well.

Do you understand the kind of shitstorm that would ensue if people were actually forced to do something like that?

The media would have a field day dunking on Naughty Dog just like they did with Rockstar when Dan or Sam(?) made that unfortunate commentary about people working 100h weeks during RDR2's development.

I did not enjoy TLOU2's story, Druckmann is a hack if he actually thinks its story is a masterpiece but some of these stories used to shit on him and/or the game are ridiculous.

They weren't forced to watch it of course but pressured? You could say that. If you are an animator and you want to work on death animations, chances are that you are not getting the assignment over someone who chose to watch those videos.

I always thought it was ridiculous how far people go to achieve realism. Just reading descriptions of how people die should be enough. After all that's how movies and devs did it before the dark web started compiling all those videos.

 

[GudOlRub]

You could say that. If you are an animator and you want to work on death animations, chances are that you are not getting the assignment over someone who chose to watch those videos.

That's just the nature of the work I guess.
I understand the point of view, due to the competitve nature of these jobs we could apply the same logic to those kinds of people who work shit tons of hours and fuck it up for everybody else unless it's regulated like the Rockstar Games example I mentioned, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Personally I have no issues with this, as long as no one was forced to do it, if some devs were more willing to watch those videos then that's that.

From an artistic point of view even artists themselves always point out how important reference is to get things right, if they are willing to go an extra step and watch straight up gore to make it more realistic in games, movies or whichever I can only respect that.

 

[Toots]

They did watch videos to use as reference yes, but no one at naughty dog forced them to do it.

Im pretty sure they did not do it because of their limitless professional commitment.
You should be able to understand how flimsy the "no one is forcing you to do what the boss wants you to do" argument is in the corporate landscape.

I always thought it was ridiculous how far people go to achieve realism. Just reading descriptions of how people die should be enough. After all that's how movies and devs did it before the dark web started compiling all those videos.

The most stupid thing is we as westerners are actually used to the over the top 80's actioner violence, which is much more spectacular (and looks much better on screen) than realistic violence.
The Robocop game leaned fully into this depiction of violence and most of the people who played it liked that, maybe becasue they weren't smug edgelords.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Im pretty sure they did not do it because of their limitless professional commitment.
You should be able to understand how flimsy the "no one is forcing you to do what the boss wants you to do" argument is in the corporate landscape.

The most stupid thing is we as westerners are actually used to the over the top 80's actioner violence, which is much more spectacular (and looks much better on screen) than realistic violence.
The Robocop game leaned fully into this depiction of violence and most of the people who played it liked that, maybe becasue they weren't smug edgelords.

Over the top violence is entertaining. Realistic violence is off-putting.

 

[GudOlRub]

Im pretty sure they did not do it because of their limitless professional commitment.
You should be able to understand how flimsy the "no one is forcing you to do what the boss wants you to do" argument is in the corporate landscape.

The most stupid thing is we as westerners are actually used to the over the top 80's actioner violence, which is much more spectacular (and looks much better on screen) than realistic violence.
The Robocop game leaned fully into this depiction of violence and most of the people who played it liked that, maybe becasue they weren't smug edgelords.

Those arguments are all valid and I'm not trying to say otherwise. But shit like that never stays under wraps forever, if workers were indeed abused then sooner or later it will come out and Naughty Dog, Druckmann and whomever else is responsible will be rightfully under fire for it but for now at least the testemonies we've had don't corroborate such claims so as I said I can only respect it if they willingly put themselves through it to see their artistic visions through.

Over the top violence is entertaining. Realistic violence is off-putting.

That was exactly the point about the gore being so realistic in TLOU2 though, they wanted people to feel uncomfortable with all the violence and my god they succeeded imo. Every time I play the game I'm amazed and horrified at the same time when someone dies.

 

[adamsapple]

Borderlands looks gorgeous. I would like more AAA games to experiment with the cel shaded artstyle.

I guess I'm an outlier here cause I don't like the way BL4 looks. Maybe a maxed out PC version looks better but the console version looks so flat and underwhelming. The performance being so unstable compounds it.

 

[Toots]

I guess I'm an outlier here cause I don't like the way BL4 looks. Maybe a maxed out PC version looks better but the console version looks so flat and underwhelming. The performance being so unstable compounds it.

Im sure there are plenty of people thinking the same.
I cannot shake the impression BL4 looks exactly like BL3 which looked pretty good (when it came out).
What's up with devs and iterative sequels this gen ???

Those arguments are all valid and I'm not trying to say otherwise. But shit like that never stays under wraps forever, if workers were indeed abused then sooner or later it will come out and Naughty Dog, Druckmann and whomever else is responsible will be rightfully under fire for it but for now at least the testemonies we've had don't corroborate such claims so as I said I can only respect it if they willingly put themselves through it to see their artistic visions through.

That was exactly the point about the gore being so realistic in TLOU2 though, they wanted people to feel uncomfortable with all the violence and my god they succeeded imo. Every time I play the game I'm amazed and horrified at the same time when someone dies.

That was also what was supremely moronic with TLOU2 and the "we don't use fun here" fiasco. They were creating a game, not a civil right movement...
Should have thought about that before making this weird depiction of the palestinian conflict in a post apocalyptic setting.

 

[T4keD0wN]

I guess I'm an outlier here cause I don't like the way BL4 looks. Maybe a maxed out PC version looks better but the console version looks so flat and underwhelming. The performance being so unstable compounds it.

Maybe i havent seen a lot of bl4 footage, but from the little that i did it looks like a game that id expect to run 4k60fps on an rtx3060 to me. Really not impressed by the visuals.

If youve shown me unmarked screenshots from BL2, 3 and 4 i dont think i would be able to tell which is which unless theyd have grass and ive spent multiple minutes on it. This artstyle really doesnt benefit from any advanced tech like the realistic looking games would imo. But on the bright side these games age super well because of it.

 

[GymWolf]

I guess I'm an outlier here cause I don't like the way BL4 looks. Maybe a maxed out PC version looks better but the console version looks so flat and underwhelming. The performance being so unstable compounds it.

No you are not, i think it looks fine but it didn't needed to be made in ue5, every other engine would be fine.

We accept the shortcoming of ue5 because it look the best but you could show bl3 maxed out to people and tell em it's bl4 and they would believe you.

Try that with mafia 3 vs mafia 4...

 

[adamsapple]

No you are not, i think it looks fine but it didn't needed to be made in ue5, every other engine would be fine.

We accept the shortcoming of ue5 because it look the best but you could show bl3 maxed out to people and tell em it's bl4 and they would believe you.

Try that with mafia 3 vs mafia 4...

On the console versions at least, Mafia 3 to 4 is a pretty damn big improvement. I was surprised how ugly Mafia 3 looks on revisiting it after a long time.


Mafia 3 PS4 Pro code running on PS5:

-


Mafia 4 on Series X Quality mode with Unlocked FPS (good enough for VRR)

Not 1 : 1 comparable shots, I know, Old Country isn't set in a city, but the difference in asset and effect quality should be immediate.

 

[GymWolf]

On the console versions at least, Mafia 3 to 4 is a pretty damn big improvement. I was surprised how ugly Mafia 3 looks on revisiting it after a long time.


Mafia 3 PS4 Pro code running on PS5:

-


Mafia 4 on Series X Quality mode with Unlocked FPS (good enough for VRR)

Not 1 : 1 comparable shots, I know, Old Country isn't set in a city, but the difference in asset and effect quality should be immediate.

Yeah mafia 4 looking much better was my whole point

 

[Jack Howitzer]

On the console versions at least, Mafia 3 to 4 is a pretty damn big improvement. I was surprised how ugly Mafia 3 looks on revisiting it after a long time.

Nah Mafia 3 been completely graphical lackluster since the very beginning

 

[SlimySnake]

Mafia Remake was a late gen game and looked really good for a PS4 gen title.

But Mafia 4 is still a big leap over it.

Borderlands 4 is a smaller leap. the dumb art style is holding it back.

 

[geary]

I just bought Dying Light the beast and Silent Hill F. Hopefully they run well and look good. I am excited for these games

 

[Gonzito]

 

[Toots]

On the console versions at least, Mafia 3 to 4 is a pretty damn big improvement. I was surprised how ugly Mafia 3 looks on revisiting it after a long time.


Mafia 3 PS4 Pro code running on PS5:

-


Mafia 4 on Series X Quality mode with Unlocked FPS (good enough for VRR)

Not 1 : 1 comparable shots, I know, Old Country isn't set in a city, but the difference in asset and effect quality should be immediate.

I bought Mafia 3 for 5$ this weekend, playing it on pro and the draw distance and pop in is hardcore.
One of the good things i found was the character models, they look really good compared to the ret of the game.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Don't get me wrong. Mafia III is no visual masterpiece on PC, but damn, it looks so much better at the proper resolution. Sorry for the night shots, I have no idea how to change the time of day in this game.

 

[adamsapple]

I just bought Dying Light the beast and Silent Hill F. Hopefully they run well and look good. I am excited for these games

Silent Hill f seems to be a very good version on both PC and PS5, DF got hands on at Gamescom.

Expecting Xbox to be more or less the same as PS5. It's a game with small, narrow halls and the fog obscures a lot the draw distance, so there's really nothing that should be stressing out hardware.

 

[GymWolf]

Mafia Remake was a late gen game and looked really good for a PS4 gen title.

But Mafia 4 is still a big leap over it.

Borderlands 4 is a smaller leap. the dumb art style is holding it back.

It's not dumb cmon, it's one of the most famous things about the brands and we really don't have many games with high level cell shading other than the guilty gear games.

It was dumb to use heavy ass ue5 to make cell shaded graphic.

 

[Jack Howitzer]

Don't get me wrong. Mafia III is no visual masterpiece on PC, but damn, it looks so much better at the proper resolution. Sorry for the night shots, I have no idea how to change the time of day in this game.

As far as I remember time is basically unskippable unless going through certain missions. Gotta admit the city scale, vehicle shaders (even better than gta v to some extent?) and ground reflections in raining time are always pleasing to look at , while the mirror reflection inside interiors is completely broken xd

 

[GudOlRub]

Mafia 3 is one of those games that under certain conditions can look gorgeous and under others it looks absolutely hideous.
No joke the dynamic time of day completely fucked that game's looks.

 

[ChiefDada]

I guess I'm an outlier here cause I don't like the way BL4 looks. Maybe a maxed out PC version looks better but the console version looks so flat and underwhelming. The performance being so unstable compounds it.

Yeah maybe. My post was based on PC captures and not really taking performance into account. I just think it's a great art/tech presentation.

 

[Minari]

it fucked up that for me 2 best looking games both came out in 2020...

 

[adamsapple]

Bojji and SlimySnake

Since you guys were talking about it earlier, and since DF hasn't bothered to do a video about it yet, the only source that's covered Hell is Us.

• Hell is Us offers two display modes on PS5, PS5 Pro, and Xbox Series X. Xbox Series S only offers one mode at 30fps.
• Quality mode improves the overall level of detail, draw distance, shadows, lighting, reflections, terrain quality, etc.
• The differences between display modes lie in the graphics settings. Resolution has little impact on this game.
• Xbox Series X has a higher average resolution than PS5.
• PS5 Pro maintains some quality mode settings in performance mode, but there are no notable differences.
• PSSR in performance mode has some typical Unreal Engine 5 issues, such as flickering in ambient occlusion. I recommend disabling it.
• On PC, we have a good DLSS application with multi-frame generation with the RTX 50 series, so we can run the game on Ultra with any graphics model above 100fps.

Foliage draw and density seems to be the biggest difference between console Quality and Performance mode.

But on the flip side, it's admirable that all console versions with Performance modes seem to be a flat 60.

 

[Bojji]

Bojji and SlimySnake

Since you guys were talking about it earlier, and since DF hasn't bothered to do a video about it yet, the only source that's covered Hell is Us.








Foliage draw and density seems to be the biggest difference between console Quality and Performance mode.

But on the flip side, it's admirable that all console versions with Performance modes seem to be a flat 60.

Performance of this game is great for a UE5 game. I have only seen traversal stutters in few levels, smooth sailing otherwise on Pro and with good image quality. I wonder if DF will do any comparison for this game at all.

 

[PeteBull]

In light of a thread regular like Lethal01 getting perma'd, i'd like to honor him by posting next gen pics from his favorite games. RIP. I will miss the tens of thousands of LOL emojis from you that have gotten me so close to 100k reactions here.

Fuck did he say something crazy in kirk's thread or was it totally random ban?

 

[SlimySnake]

STOP IMPROVING GRAPHICS GUYS!

 

[Gonzito]

STOP IMPROVING GRAPHICS GUYS!

I saw this tweet before. Ridiculous

 

[MidGenRefresh]

STOP IMPROVING GRAPHICS GUYS!

I'd say the complete opposite: improve graphics faster because progress in the last few years has been so slow.

 

[analog_future]

STOP IMPROVING GRAPHICS GUYS!

This whole "movement" is continuing to gain steam and it's stupid as fuck

 

[SlimySnake]

These grifters on twitter have gone full retard. They say borderlands cant even do 30 fps on a 5080 while running the game on Badass preset. That's higher than Very high btw. I am easily able to do 60 fps at 4k dlss performance with the auto detect setting that defaults me to Very high and changes some settings to high. i was able to hit 95 fps using the medium preset which still looks great.



It's a shame that twitter has turned into such a shithole. Borderlands may have issues that devs need to look into and fix, but this aint it.

I also saw a video where this youtuber was using a 3060 ti as the card to optimize against. Thats a card thats barely as powerful as a PS5. Why are people still using it 5 years later? That would be like people using a GTX 570 in 2018 wondering why RDR2 cant do 60 fps on a PS4 grade card from 5 years ago. Instead the 1060 was the most popular card at the time which was 2-3x more powerful than the PS4. Right now the 5080 is the GPU that is 2-3x more powerful than the base PS5, but sells for 3x what 1060 sold for in 2018. maybe take it up with nvidia?

regardless you can get a 5070 for $500 and that would easily run this game at 2x the performance of the PS5. i cannot believe its 2025 and people are still using 8gb cards like the 3060 and complaining about modern games not running well on it.

Console gamers I could understand. MS skipped mid gen console after delivering the incredible x1x last gen that let me run rdr2, dmc, shadow of tomb raider all at native 4k. And Serny dropped the ball with a meager 45% improvement with his $750 disaster. Neither console base has an option to upgrade like they did last gen. But PC gamers? UE5 actually runs very well on AMD GPUs and they are much cheaper than nvdia scams. There are so many options.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I don't think a 5080 should need DLSS performance on any game unless it does something insane like path tracing. We're talking about a 1000 eurodollar GPU.

 

[Luipadre]

These grifters on twitter have gone full retard. They say borderlands cant even do 30 fps on a 5080 while running the game on Badass preset. That's higher than Very high btw. I am easily able to do 60 fps at 4k dlss performance with the auto detect setting that defaults me to Very high and changes some settings to high. i was able to hit 95 fps using the medium preset which still looks great.



It's a shame that twitter has turned into such a shithole. Borderlands may have issues that devs need to look into and fix, but this aint it.

I also saw a video where this youtuber was using a 3060 ti as the card to optimize against. Thats a card thats barely as powerful as a PS5. Why are people still using it 5 years later? That would be like people using a GTX 570 in 2018 wondering why RDR2 cant do 60 fps on a PS4 grade card from 5 years ago. Instead the 1060 was the most popular card at the time which was 2-3x more powerful than the PS4. Right now the 5080 is the GPU that is 2-3x more powerful than the base PS5, but sells for 3x what 1060 sold for in 2018. maybe take it up with nvidia?

regardless you can get a 5070 for $500 and that would easily run this game at 2x the performance of the PS5. i cannot believe its 2025 and people are still using 8gb cards like the 3060 and complaining about modern games not running well on it.

Console gamers I could understand. MS skipped mid gen console after delivering the incredible x1x last gen that let me run rdr2, dmc, shadow of tomb raider all at native 4k. And Serny dropped the ball with a meager 45% improvement with his $750 disaster. Neither console base has an option to upgrade like they did last gen. But PC gamers? UE5 actually runs very well on AMD GPUs and they are much cheaper than nvdia scams. There are so many options.

meanwhile im playing on very high/high 1440p dlss4 quality 2x framagen at 110-150 fps without any serious drops or bad stutters on a 5070ti