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[SlimySnake]

I'm not saying the game is 100 percent consistent in its visuals because it's not. But to claim it lacks art style is hilarious. This is some of the best art design I've seen in a long time. It feels like the original Fallout or Arcanum. Beautiful.

First screenshot looks good. Second looks atrocious. I have no idea what art design they are going for here. It feels like a quickly patched together hodge podge job of arranging assets and colors that have fuck all to do with each other. Avowed felt similar. Obsidian just doesnt have it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Arc Raiders looks really good. I just dont understand what kind of game this is. only played the first alpha a couple of years ago and it was this slow PvPvE game that i immediately turned off. I dont know why DICE couldnt have made a Battlefield like game or just a straight PvP game. I have no idea wtf this is supposed to be.

But man does it look good.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

First screenshot looks good. Second looks atrocious. I have no idea what art design they are going for here. It feels like a quickly patched together hodge podge job of arranging assets and colors that have fuck all to do with each other. Avowed felt similar. Obsidian just doesnt have it.

Ridiculous.

 

[analog_future]

It's almost hard for me to say if I think that this looks that much better than what they did with Halo 2 Anniversary some years ago

As if DF hadn't sullied their reputation enough, now we have John saying absolutely ridiculous shit like this.

Here's Halo 2 Anniversary maxed out on PC:

 

[GymWolf]

Arc Raiders looks really good. I just dont understand what kind of game this is. only played the first alpha a couple of years ago and it was this slow PvPvE game that i immediately turned off. I dont know why DICE couldnt have made a Battlefield like game or just a straight PvP game. I have no idea wtf this is supposed to be.

But man does it look good.

What looks so good other than some of the clearly non-gameplay parts?

 

[archangelmorph]

Follow the discussion. he was calling it cross gen like HFW, not cross gen with PS6 games which currently dont exist.

I know exactly what he was saying.

I was correcting you, in thinking that either PS5 is a "next gen" console, or that we're all still somehow in 2019.

 

[SlimySnake]

What looks so good other than some of the clearly non-gameplay parts?

Lighting.

 

[Sept Terrion Of Nothing]

The same people calling Ghost of Yotei's graphics lazy would be drooling over generic UE5 slop produced by Asian studios.

Yes, pure laziness.

I also advocate against using UE5 for all of games. We don't need monopolization.

 

[SlimySnake]

As if DF hadn't sullied their reputation enough, now we have John saying absolutely ridiculous shit like this.

Here's Halo 2 Anniversary maxed out on PC:

He might have misspoken here. He might have been talking about the Halo 1 CE remake which got a full asset and lighting remake while Halo 2 only got a remaster.

Honestly though, the game looks atrocious. You cannot release gameplay footage with this many lighting and texture oddities. LOD pop-in was constant in the cutscenes. The foliage in the distance was clearly without shadows and any kind of LOD management. Reminded me of PS3 era texture streaming issues. Lumen issues were so prominent that I thought kevboard himself made this port to make UE5 look bad.

The very first shot of the ocean and the water in general looked amazing and what id expect from UE5 games but i am not surprised that people are being harsh about this. If it launches in this state it would be the worst most buggiest UE5 game ive seen yet. Should not have shown this at all.

 

[kevboard]

As if DF hadn't sullied their reputation enough, now we have John saying absolutely ridiculous shit like this.

Here's Halo 2 Anniversary maxed out on PC:

uh... wtf are you trying to show here?... press the graphics swap key to switch to the Anniversary Graphics.
you're showing the classic graphics mode not the anniversary mode. you show it with the og Xbox assets.

also there are 2 Halo 2 Anniversaries so to say.
Halo 2 Anniversary Campaign, which is running on Blam Engine as a base for the classic graphics and as the game logic, and the Saber 3D Engine on top as a graphics layer.
and,
Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer, which is an entirely new multiplayer game running on the Halo 4 version of the Blam engine.

the Multiplayer game looks insanely good imo. absolutely beautiful art design and at the time also amazing visuals in general.

 

[SlimySnake]

uh... wtf are you trying to show here?... press the graphics swap key to switch to the Anniversary Graphics.
you're showing the classic graphics mode not the anniversary mode. you show it with the og Xbox assets.

also there are 2 Halo 2 Anniversaries so to say.
Halo 2 Anniversary Campaign, which is running on Blam Engine as a base for the classic graphics and as the game logic, and the Saber 3D Engine on top as a graphics layer.
and,
Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer, which is an entirely new multiplayer game running on the Halo 4 version of the Blam engine.

the Multiplayer game looks insanely good imo. absolutely beautiful art design and at the time also amazing visuals in general.

oh wow. i completely forgot the campaign for halo 2 was also updated with new assets and lighting. looking at some DF footage now and it looks fairly dated though. not up to PS4 quality but definitely a generational upgrade over the OG Xbox version and on par with Halo 4.

 

[analog_future]

uh... wtf are you trying to show here?... press the graphics swap key to switch to the Anniversary Graphics.
you're showing the classic graphics mode not the anniversary mode. you show it with the og Xbox assets.

also there are 2 Halo 2 Anniversaries so to say.
Halo 2 Anniversary Campaign, which is running on Blam Engine as a base for the classic graphics and as the game logic, and the Saber 3D Engine on top as a graphics layer.
and,
Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer, which is an entirely new multiplayer game running on the Halo 4 version of the Blam engine.

the Multiplayer game looks insanely good imo. absolutely beautiful art design and at the time also amazing visuals in general.

Oops, you're right, I shared the wrong screen. Updated it. Point still remains.

 

[SABRE220]

I would say this looks even better than w4?!

In Image quality, absolutely, I would say the general fidelity is comparable, but it seems more consistent in the Witcher 4 demo. The fidelity is uneven in areas for this game, the art style is definitely more striking, which helps and it's clearly going the vertical slice approach in areas.

 

[SABRE220]

when artstyle and tech fuse perfectly, it is a work of art

Looks straight up better than Witcher 4.

I think this is how it'll be all next gen. Chinese/Korean studio we've never heard of producing better visuals than the best in the west.

In Image quality, absolutely, I would say the general fidelity is comparable, but it seems more consistent in the Witcher 4 demo. The fidelity is uneven in areas for this game; the art style is definitely more striking, which helps, and it's clearly going the vertical slice approach in areas.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

As if DF hadn't sullied their reputation enough, now we have John saying absolutely ridiculous shit like this.

Here's Halo 2 Anniversary maxed out on PC:

I know what John was trying to say. The Halo 2 anniversary is usually considered a lot more true to the art style of the original whereas CE anniv is all over the place in art style.

This game is going to be such a messy, noisy, artifact ridden UE5 game on consoles

 

[ZehDon]

This game is going to be such a messy, noisy, artifact ridden UE5 game on consoles

A lot of the footage shown was from the Xbox Series X version, which in terms of IQ, was actually OK. Or, at least better than I'd have thought. But the stuttering and frame time spikes were painfully evident.

 

[adamsapple]

A lot of the footage shown was from the Xbox Series X version, which in terms of IQ, was actually OK. Or, at least better than I'd have thought. But the stuttering and frame time spikes were painfully evident.

It's anywhere from 4 months to a year out tho, plenty of time for them to iron out the issues.

 

[ZehDon]

It's anywhere from 4 months to a year out tho, plenty of time for them to iron out the issues.

I might normally agree with you, but there's two issues here:

1. It's UE5. It's famous for bad performance and stuttering as much as any of its actual features.
2. It's still 343i. They're famous for being bad at everything, doubly so their technical executions. See: MCC.

I'm fully expecting this to launch as a stutter fest. If they deliver a rock solid experience, it'll be a pleasant surprise!

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

 

[ChiefDada]

Nope I was immediately turned off by SSR artifacts it really bothers me.

 

[mrMUR_96]

Edit: how do I delete my own message lol

 

[Toots]

I also dont like the color palette. it looks too cartoony. Both avatar and Ac shadows go for a similar vibrant look but still manage to look far more realistic than this.

That you don't like yotei art and tech is one thing, but to say shadows and most of all avatar look more realistic is truly one of the wildest takes on this thread.
Yotei vistas looks extremely realistic, the most i've seen in a videogame, and that is in part due to the very grounded colour palette.
It has a lot of flaws (geometry for exemple is not cutting it at all) but not the ones you apparently see with your very special eyes.

Look at the outer worlds 2 screens here if you want to see cartoonish and compare with yotei.

 

[RavionUHD]

Started playing The Outer Worlds 2, I really liked the first one.
The graphics are much better than I thought, you can clearly see the Nanite Geometry and the raytraced Lightning, it looks really good so far, asset quality is also pretty high:

Here a couple of screenshots I took in 4K Ultrawide with DLDSR (5160*2160), ReShade and RTX HDR:

 

[icecold1983]

Arc Raiders looks really good. I just dont understand what kind of game this is. only played the first alpha a couple of years ago and it was this slow PvPvE game that i immediately turned off. I dont know why DICE couldnt have made a Battlefield like game or just a straight PvP game. I have no idea wtf this is supposed to be.

But man does it look good.

Its not a bad looking game, but that trailer is not representative of actual gameplay.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Edit: how do I delete my own message lol

You dont, your humiliation act will be forever remembered online.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Started playing The Outer Worlds 2, I really liked the first one.
The graphics are much better than I thought, you can clearly see the Nanite Geometry and the raytraced Lightning, it looks really good so far, asset quality is also pretty high:

Here a couple of screenshots I took in 4K Ultrawide with DLDSR (5160*2160), ReShade and RTX HDR:

It's a gorgeous game.

 

[SolidQ]

Interesting video

 

[Gonzito]

Started playing The Outer Worlds 2, I really liked the first one.
The graphics are much better than I thought, you can clearly see the Nanite Geometry and the raytraced Lightning, it looks really good so far, asset quality is also pretty high:

Here a couple of screenshots I took in 4K Ultrawide with DLDSR (5160*2160), ReShade and RTX HDR:

The graphics are so so good. I was pleasantly surprised too. Textures, draw distance, geometry etc. it all looks amazing and very clean as well, at least on pc with DLAA

 

[SlimySnake]

Interesting video

a lot of these zoomers simply werent around back in 2007 when crysis launched so they have this incomplete and almost mythical view of how games ran back in the day. Crysis was notoriously heavy and didnt run well on anything at the time. it was insanely CPU bound on top of being graphics heavy so even if you had a top of the line GPU, you couldnt run it at 60 fps.

I remember making a PC 4 years later and still couldnt max it out at 1080p. Constant framedrops even after four years and 3 generations of GPUs later.

He then talks about GTA4 and Ubisoft engines and how they ran games that were stable. Like are you fucking kidding me? Every single game in the early PS360 era that wasnt first party ran at 20-30 fps. We now have games all running at 60 fps but we are saying they are less stable? Because UE5 games have traversal stutters and shader stutters on PCs? Like come on. These youtubers are hacks. They dont even know their own history. Literally last gen, we had 90% of the games running at 30 fps on consoles.

This is why i say fuck 60 fps modes. If gamers dont want to appreciate 60 fps modes, fuck em. Fuck them in the ear. Ship the games with 30 fps games. At least that will force gamers to play the game with the version that has great image quality. I dont even know why Silent Hill 2 or Silent Hill F even have a 60 fps mode. these bitches dont appreciate these 60 fps modes so why bother?

lastly, the guy is simply retarded calling Death Stranding 2 next gen. Saying its doing things UE5 simply cant do. When we all know it's the other way around.

he's simply clueless at best, borderline retarded at worst. Everything he says is wrong. Developers arent just clicking the enable lumen button, they still have to light each area with probes and other invisible light sources. There is still engineering involved. If there wasnt, you wouldnt have some UE5 games that run better than others. He's got zero understanding of how games are built. He also conveniently forgets engines like Anvil, Snowdrop, Northlight, Space Marine 2's engine, ID Tech, IO Interactive's engine, and of course RAGE. All of which have not degraded and are now offering 60 fps modes on consoles for the first time ever. Some do drop frames but thats ok because in the past most games dropped frames when they were targeting 30 fps.

Absolutely insane video. What a douche.

 

[SlimySnake]

Oh and one more thing. I would like to know if PC gamers in this thread have had issues running modern games at 60 fps this gen. I've been gaming all gen on PC and have had zero issues running 99% of the games at 60 fps. I did upgrade my CPU in 2021 and GPU in 2022. But the first couple of years were mostly cross gen anyway and i was running them at 120 fps already. Starfield was the first game that really gave me trouble but even that was only in cities and the worst i saw was drops to 50 fps. Same with jedi survivor which only dropped in koboh's town.

Since then UE5, Snowdrop, Anvil games all run at 60 fps as long as im willing to drop the resolution or graphics settings to match my GPU performance. I understand the frustration behind traversal stutters but they have never really bothered me. The worst traversal stutters i encountered were in the Frostbite Dead Space Remake which still havent been fixed because devs refused to update the game after the first week. so not an engine issue since Dragon Age was very polished. And so is Battlefield 6.

I just want to know if im crazy or lucky or if everyone here gaming on PC has had a pretty decent gen performance wise.

 

[crazyturtle]

Yep, i thought i was taking crazy pills...

Nextgen is gonna surpass this.
(Hopefully)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Black Flag remake surpasses whats above. The only thing holding Ubisofts engine back is that its outsourced to third world developers and scaled so broadly for the most potato of systems.

 

[paolo11]

I'm going to say really controversial but the character models on this generation is same as PS4 but with minor changes. Is the PS4 the peak in terms of character models or the console is setting it back? I'm not complaining though as it still looks beautiful

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm going to say really controversial but the character models on this generation is same as PS4 but with minor changes. Is the PS4 the peak in terms of character models or the console is setting it back? I'm not complaining though as it still looks beautiful

Devs have definitely been slacking when it comes to character models this gen. I think it's by design. They just dont want to waste precious GPU resources rendering cutscene quality character faces during gameplay. For some reason, Hero lighting hasnt taken off even though Horizon FW set the bar for ingame character models years ago. in a cross gen game no less.

But games are already too expensive and barely run at 1440p 30 fps. Sometimes dropping to 1296p to maintain 30 fps. Who knows what lighting those character models costs, or how expensive it would be to have cutscene quality character faces during gameplay.

There are some games that allow you to turn off Hair physics so i am not sure why the same cant be done for hero lighting or cutscene quality character models. Just give us that toggle if we dont like the performance hit. At least on PC.

With all that said, there have been some exceptions this gen. hellblade 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, callisto, James and Ashley in Silent Hill 2, that one dude in Mafia (lol) and the upcoming GTA6 and Marvel 1943 of course.

 

[T4keD0wN]

He then talks about GTA4 and Ubisoft engines and how they ran games that were stable. Like are you fucking kidding me? Every single game in the early PS360 era that wasnt first party ran at 20-30 fps. We now have games all running at 60 fps but we are saying they are less stable? Because UE5 games have traversal stutters and shader stutters on PCs? Like come on. These youtubers are hacks. They dont even know their own history. Literally last gen, we had 90% of the games running at 30 fps on consoles.

I dont care about framerate in a game when it stutters.

Ive tried playing a new UE4 game that came out this week called Duet Night Abyss, i get 350fps+ and each time i use a new ability or a new attack for the first time i get a massive 1s stutter, same things wither Borderlands 3 or Jedi Fallen Order, i get 300fps there and they stutter like shit, tried playing them at 480p30fps locked and they still stuttered. Granted UE5 games barely stutter, unlike UE4 garbage, but this is about the principle of differentiating between stability (how well a game is made) and framerate (how a game is demanding).

Id much rather play Star Wars Outlaws where i get "only" 150fps, but at least i have zero stutter because the game is stable. Been also playing The Outer Worlds 2 which is a UE5 game, it runs fine 99% of the time, when i unlock it the game runs at 300 (mostly fake) frames and despite most of them being fake there is still a bunch of shader comp stutter.

Stability (frametime consistency) and framerate are 2 completely different things. Youre wrong on this matter.

 

[Killer8]

a lot of these zoomers simply werent around back in 2007 when crysis launched so they have this incomplete and almost mythical view of how games ran back in the day. Crysis was notoriously heavy and didnt run well on anything at the time. it was insanely CPU bound on top of being graphics heavy so even if you had a top of the line GPU, you couldnt run it at 60 fps.

I remember making a PC 4 years later and still couldnt max it out at 1080p. Constant framedrops even after four years and 3 generations of GPUs later.

He then talks about GTA4 and Ubisoft engines and how they ran games that were stable. Like are you fucking kidding me? Every single game in the early PS360 era that wasnt first party ran at 20-30 fps. We now have games all running at 60 fps but we are saying they are less stable? Because UE5 games have traversal stutters and shader stutters on PCs? Like come on. These youtubers are hacks. They dont even know their own history. Literally last gen, we had 90% of the games running at 30 fps on consoles.

This is why i say fuck 60 fps modes. If gamers dont want to appreciate 60 fps modes, fuck em. Fuck them in the ear. Ship the games with 30 fps games. At least that will force gamers to play the game with the version that has great image quality. I dont even know why Silent Hill 2 or Silent Hill F even have a 60 fps mode. these bitches dont appreciate these 60 fps modes so why bother?

lastly, the guy is simply retarded calling Death Stranding 2 next gen. Saying its doing things UE5 simply cant do. When we all know it's the other way around.

he's simply clueless at best, borderline retarded at worst. Everything he says is wrong. Developers arent just clicking the enable lumen button, they still have to light each area with probes and other invisible light sources. There is still engineering involved. If there wasnt, you wouldnt have some UE5 games that run better than others. He's got zero understanding of how games are built. He also conveniently forgets engines like Anvil, Snowdrop, Northlight, Space Marine 2's engine, ID Tech, IO Interactive's engine, and of course RAGE. All of which have not degraded and are now offering 60 fps modes on consoles for the first time ever. Some do drop frames but thats ok because in the past most games dropped frames when they were targeting 30 fps.

Absolutely insane video. What a douche.

The whole channel is just old game good, modern game le bad. I wouldn't waste time on it.

 

[SlimySnake]

I dont care about framerate in a game when it stutters.

Ive tried playing a new UE4 game that came out this week called Duet Night Abyss, i get 350fps+ and each time i use a new ability or a new attack for the first time i get a massive 1s stutter, same things wither Borderlands 3 or Jedi Fallen Order, i get 300fps there and they stutters like shit, tried playing them at 480p30fps locked and they still stuttered, granted UE5 barely stutter unlike UE4 garbage, but this is about the principle of differentiation between stability (how well a game is made) and framerate (how a game is demanding). Id much rather play play Star Wars Outlaws where i get only 150fps, but at least i have zero stutter because the game is stable.

Stability (frametime consistency) and framerate are 2 completely different things. Youre wrong on this matter.

Frametime consistency is huge and part of the reason why i always lock my framerate to either 30 or 40 or 60. I cannot do variable framerates.

But UE5 is just one engine with issues. This guy is like everything modern is bad. Everything legacy was great which is nonsense. You mentioned outlaws, what stutters does it have? Avatar, Alan Wake 2, AC Shadows, Doom, Space Marine 2 are all built on modern engines and they dont have those stutters. Id say modern engines are better than ever because they are finally able to provide 60 fps on consoles even in boundry pushing games like Avatar.

Like you said yourself, even UE5 isnt as terrible as UE4 was so clearly its improved. His entire thesis is wrong.

Also, play Days Gone on PC and tell me if you are getting the same stutters you are in the Jedi games. It's all a matter of how you use your engine.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Frametime consistency is huge and part of the reason why i always lock my framerate to either 30 or 40 or 60. I cannot do variable framerates.

But UE5 is just one engine with issues. This guy is like everything modern is bad. Everything legacy was great which is nonsense. You mentioned outlaws, what stutters does it have? Avatar, Alan Wake 2, AC Shadows, Doom, Space Marine 2 are all built on modern engines and they dont have those stutters. Id say modern engines are better than ever because they are finally able to provide 60 fps on consoles even in boundry pushing games like Avatar.

Like you said yourself, even UE5 isnt as terrible as UE4 was so clearly its improved. His entire thesis is wrong.

Also, play Days Gone on PC and tell me if you are getting the same stutters you are in the Jedi games.

Yeah hes nonsense, but equating average or target framerate to stability is too, frametimes are what you want to use to measure stability. My issue with what you said is not really about the engine stuff, its about the average framerate = stability bit. At the risk of sounding like Alex, i am tired of spending thousands on hw just to have high framerate with no consitency, theres no use in having hundreds of frames per second if the games stutter, it has been ruining my experience for years at this point.

This isnt really an engine issue, its a development (quality control) issue, the guy is misguided in that, you can have UE4+5 games run with near zero frametime spikes and near zero shader comp stutters, theres plenty of good examples, but many big studios unfortunately fail at that.

As for Outlaws, ive mentioned Outlaws not having stutters, game is a treat when it comes to tech. Ive played all the rest youve mentioned and theyre all great. Havent touched Days Gone in a long time, but ive played it years ago and was very happy with performance (had like 1 stutter per hour) even on the PC i had back then because the devs are good.

EDIT: I went back and fixed the grammar a bit on the previous post.

It's all a matter of how you use your engine.

Couldnt put it better.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I forgot that Cyberpunk was cross gen but in my defense so has CDPro.

 

[paolo11]

Devs have definitely been slacking when it comes to character models this gen. I think it's by design. They just dont want to waste precious GPU resources rendering cutscene quality character faces during gameplay. For some reason, Hero lighting hasnt taken off even though Horizon FW set the bar for ingame character models years ago. in a cross gen game no less.

But games are already too expensive and barely run at 1440p 30 fps. Sometimes dropping to 1296p to maintain 30 fps. Who knows what lighting those character models costs, or how expensive it would be to have cutscene quality character faces during gameplay.

There are some games that allow you to turn off Hair physics so i am not sure why the same cant be done for hero lighting or cutscene quality character models. Just give us that toggle if we dont like the performance hit. At least on PC.

With all that said, there have been some exceptions this gen. hellblade 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, callisto, James and Ashley in Silent Hill 2, that one dude in Mafia (lol) and the upcoming GTA6 and Marvel 1943 of course.

Looks beautiful as always.

I'm not knocking down on PS4 models btw. In fact , they are still beautiful till this day. FF7 Remake, TLOU2 , RE Remake and Devil May Cry 5 have the best high quality character models out there.

This gen, FF16 and Ninja Gaiden 2 Black and 4 models look beautiful to me (anime/ realism style ) however the pics you posted above are wowowowooowow!!!

I also would like the art direction on this models. Some go for realistic and some are semi anime /realism or some cell shaded. I am still wowed

 

[Flabagast]

I'm going to say really controversial but the character models on this generation is same as PS4 but with minor changes. Is the PS4 the peak in terms of character models or the console is setting it back? I'm not complaining though as it still looks beautiful

Someone has not played Hellblade 2 it seems

 

[paolo11]

Someone has not played Hellblade 2 it seems

I haven't but are most games don't models like Hellblade 2 this gen but even though it's the case, PS4 models are peak (or almost thanks to Hellblade 2) which is perfectly fine. Ghost of Tsushima , Remake 7, god of war remake, RE remake and DMC 5 are CGI models already.

 

[March Climber]

I forgot that Cyberpunk was cross gen but in my defense so has CDPro.

 

[paolo11]

I wonder how visuals next two years will look (Ps6, new Xbox). Is it now possible for native 4k 60fps on consoles ?

 

[RodriGames40]

I wonder how visuals next two years will look (Ps6, new Xbox). Is it now possible for native 4k 60fps on consoles ?

Native 4K ain't happening when you can do a very high quality 1080p upscale with FSR5 by then. It's for the best.

 

[paolo11]

Native 4K ain't happening when you can do a very high quality 1080p upscale with FSR5 by then. It's for the best.

I'm down with that. Rebirth ps5 pro looks fantastic and that's not 4k native. If the image is sharp and beautiful ,count me in

 

[analog_future]

I wonder how visuals next two years will look (Ps6, new Xbox). Is it now possible for native 4k 60fps on consoles ?

"4k native' is a bit of a meaningless term nowadays. Endless much, much better ways to use those resources.

 

[Msamy]