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[analog_future]

Maybe you're not remembering it well either...

https://i.redd.it/12gtcsjnza321.png

https://i.redd.it/skobe2ijizr51.jpg

https://i.redd.it/mirgpivm1fab1.jpg

This is Halo 4 and on the Xbox One mcc version, it runs at 1080p and 60fps on an Xbox One, much weaker than the Switch. No matter how much defense you apply here, this is a technically underwhelming effort which coasts on taking the upressing and upframing approach on a much stronger ps4.5gen console with a GPU feature set that beats even the PS5 handily outside compute, of course.

F FalconPunch said it looked "early gen PS3 like". This is what an early gen PS3 title looked like, @720p and 30fps with drops:

Halo 4 is arguably the very best looking game from the 360/PS3 generation, and ran at 720p/30fps with drops. Metroid Prime 4 is pushing 4x the amount of pixels at 2x the framerate. So right off the bat we're talking 8x the performance just from the resolution/fps boost alone. Again, it'd be fun to see what could be pushed on Switch 2 at 720p/30fps (but of course everyone would bring out their pitchforks if that ever happened). This is all on a handheld device from Nintendo, who hasn't been known to push the graphical bar for close to 3 decades at this point.

I'm happy with what I'm seeing from MP4 and I'll stand by that statement. Especially when you see what $1,000 PC gaming handhelds are doing (which is not all that much more impressive than what we're seeing on Switch 2).

 

[kevboard]

Maybe you're not remembering it well either...

https://i.redd.it/12gtcsjnza321.png

https://i.redd.it/skobe2ijizr51.jpg

https://i.redd.it/mirgpivm1fab1.jpg

This is Halo 4 and on the Xbox One mcc version, it runs at 1080p and 60fps on an Xbox One, much weaker than the Switch2. No matter how much defense you apply here, this is a technically underwhelming effort which coasts on taking the upressing and upframing approach on a much stronger ps4.5gen console with a GPU feature set that beats even the PS5 handily outside compute, of course.

the Xbox One has ~45% less GPU grunt than the Switch 2... and Halo 4 renders ~45% less pixels than Prime 4 renders on Switch 2. so not sure what you are trying to math together here.
seems to add up pretty nicely to me.

 

[FalconPunch]

F FalconPunch said it looked "early gen PS3 like". This is what an early gen PS3 title looked like, @720p and 30fps with drops:

Halo 4 is arguably the very best looking game from the 360/PS3 generation, and ran at 720p/30fps with drops. Metroid Prime 4 is pushing 4x the amount of pixels at 2x the framerate. So right off the bat we're talking 8x the performance just from the resolution/fps boost alone. Again, it'd be fun to see what could be pushed on Switch 2 at 720p/30fps (but of course everyone would bring out their pitchforks if that ever happened). This is all on a handheld device from Nintendo, who hasn't been known to push the graphical bar for close to 3 decades at this point.

I'm happy with what I'm seeing from MP4 and I'll stand by that statement. Especially when you see what $1,000 PC gaming handhelds are doing (which is not all that much more impressive than what we're seeing on Switch 2).

The truth of the matter is that the OG switch runs MP4 at 900p at 60fps. If the switch can run it, it can definitely run on the ps360. That's how poor the game looks really.

 

[SABRE220]

the Xbox One has ~45% less GPU grunt than the Switch 2... and Halo 4 renders ~45% less pixels than Prime 4 renders on Switch 2. so not sure what you are trying to math together here.
seems to add up pretty nicely to me.

The Xbox One is just 1.31tflops, meanwhile the Switch 2 is 3.07 tflops when docked, and its docked mod,e which runs the game at 1440p 60fps. Secondly the tflops are not 1:1 not even close. The GPU architecture in the Switch 2 is a colossal upgrade over the pitcairn in the One S. Seven Nvidia gpu generations worth of architectural improvements have gone into the Switch 2 compared to the gpu arch in the One, to the point it's still embarrassing relatively comparable RDNA3-based handhelds launched today.

So I'm actually bewildered that you think this is them basically maxing out the hardware effectively in your mind.

 

[kevboard]

The Xbox One is just 1.31tflops, meanwhile the Switch 2 is 3.07 tflops when docked,

3.07 TFLOPS with dual issue FP32.
in real world scenarios the raster performance of this GPU is closer to around a 2~2.2 TFLOPS GCN GPU.

which is why nearly every game shows the same pattern, which is that the Switch 2 version of a game runs at half the performance or half the resolution of the Series S version. a 4 TFLOPS RDNA2 GPU (RDNA flops and GCN flops are more comparable than Ampere and GCN)

and its docked mod,e which runs the game at 1440p 60fps. Secondly the tflops are not 1:1 not even close. The GPU architecture in the Switch 2 is a colossal upgrade over the pitcairn in the One S.

and the architecture difference is why you can't take 3.07 TFLOPS as an out of context number to compare them.
in context you'll see that 3.07 is a deceivingly high number when compared to the actual performance.

ever since the "flopflation" happened with Nvidia and AMD doing their own version of dual issue FP32, you can't just expect those numbers to make intuitive sense when compared to older GPUs.

for example, an 8 TFLOPS RDNA3 GPU is only about half as powerful as an 8 TFLOPS RDNA2 GPU.
that sounds weird if you don't know the context that RDNA3 uses dual issue fp32 to arrive at that number, while RDNA2 doesn't.

Nvida's FLOPS are not as inflated, so you don't have to cut the number in half to make it make intuitive sense.
but stll, their real world performance is about 30%~35% lower than the number would suggest, compare to say, RDNA2.

hence the 3.07 TFLOPS Switch 2 GPU showing constantly around half the real world raster performance of the 4 TFLOPS Xbox Series S GPU.
which in return would fall roughly in line with a 2~2.2 TFLOPS GCN GPU.
and we can then use that rough estimate of 2~2.2 TFLOPS to more naturally compare it to the 1.31 TFLOPS Xbox One, the 1.4 TFLOPS Xbox One S, or the 1.84 TFLOPS PlayStation 4.

 

[pulicat]

It's 4x the framerate on hardware that is 2x more powerful than a ps4 while looking approximately 2x worse. From the lighting to the scope of the levels, the lighting, textures, geometric complexity, etc. It looks worse. I don't need to play the game to see that it looks worse.

MP4 outside the biking section which looks like a mobile game is designed like a cramped ps3 corridor shooter. The gameplay we've seen makes the game look like it's just a giant hallway with beautiful set dressing. I mean, compare the model complexity in shadow falls gun model to Samus' blaster.

It's hilarious how simplistic Samus blaster looks in comparison. Almost early gen ps3 like.

That legit looks comparable to Halo 4, a 360game....honestly, outside image quality, Halo 4 looks more pleasing to me.

Damn, imagine being compared to 360/PS3 games since you guys have poor eyesight.

VS

 

[FalconPunch]

The Xbox One is just 1.31tflops, meanwhile the Switch 2 is 3.07 tflops when docked, and its docked mod,e which runs the game at 1440p 60fps. Secondly the tflops are not 1:1 not even close. The GPU architecture in the Switch 2 is a colossal upgrade over the pitcairn in the One S. Seven Nvidia gpu generations worth of architectural improvements have gone into the Switch 2 compared to the gpu arch in the One, to the point it's still embarrassing relatively comparable RDNA3-based handhelds launched today.

So I'm actually bewildered that you think this is them basically maxing out the hardware effectively in your mind.

Maxing the hardware does not mean running graphically intensive games. All it means is you're keeping the GPU utilization at 99% at all times. In the case of MP4, it's can easily be doing that by running at 120fps.

As for pushing the rendering limits of the switch 2, we already know what that looks like. A crappy looking Cyberpunk dropping into the mid 20s and low resolutions. The same is true for star wars outlaws and Assassin's creed shadows. Just like the Switch 1, we saw the Switch 2 rendering limits in less than 6 months.

It's truly embarrassing that Nintendo releases modern hardware that can be ancient shortly after it releases. In the case of the switch 2, it was expired before release. At least they could design the architecture in a unique way that can give the device longevity but nope.... Just off the shelf mobile parts on a crappy samsung node.

All of that at an exorbitant price with poor battery life to boot. I bought a switch 2 at launch, returned it within 30 days. Bought another one 2 weeks ago to see if anything had changed, returned it back to the store in 8 days. It's just weak af for a modern handheld.

 

[FalconPunch]

Damn, imagine being compared to 360/PS3 games since you guys have poor eyesight.

VS

We can see quite well. MP4 pours all it's rendering budget into rendering hallways and it still looks like shit. The geometric complexity is on par with halo on the 360 despite having smaller and more liner environments than Halo. The only thing it has going for it is hi res textures and even then, the texture quality is embarrassingly bad for the amount of ram on the Switch 2.

 

[pulicat]

We can see quite well. MP4 pours all it's rendering budget into rendering hallways and it still looks like shit. The geometric complexity is on par with halo on the 360 despite having smaller and more liner environments than Halo. The only thing it has going for it is hi res textures and even then, the texture quality is embarrassingly bad for the amount of ram on the Switch 2.

It seems your eyesight is unable to differentiate between good graphics and poor graphics.

Halo 4 PC max settings.

 

[SABRE220]

3.07 TFLOPS with dual issue FP32.
in real world scenarios the raster performance of this GPU is closer to around a 2~2.2 TFLOPS GCN GPU.

which is why nearly every game shows the same pattern, which is that the Switch 2 version of a game runs at half the performance or half the resolution of the Series S version. a 4 TFLOPS RDNA2 GPU (RDNA flops and GCN flops are more comparable than Ampere and GCN)




and the architecture difference is why you can't take 3.07 TFLOPS as an out of context number to compare them.
in context you'll see that 3.07 is a deceivingly high number when compared to the actual performance.

ever since the "flopflation" happened with Nvidia and AMD doing their own version of dual issue FP32, you can't just expect those numbers to make intuitive sense when compared to older GPUs.

for example, an 8 TFLOPS RDNA3 GPU is only about half as powerful as an 8 TFLOPS RDNA2 GPU.
that sounds weird if you don't know the context that RDNA3 uses dual issue fp32 to arrive at that number, while RDNA2 doesn't.

Nvida's FLOPS are not as inflated, so you don't have to cut the number in half to make it make intuitive sense.
but stll, their real world performance is about 30%~35% lower than the number would suggest, compare to say, RDNA2.

hence the 3.07 TFLOPS Switch 2 GPU showing constantly around half the real world raster performance of the 4 TFLOPS Xbox Series S GPU.
which in return would fall roughly in line with a 2~2.2 TFLOPS GCN GPU.
and we can then use that rough estimate of 2~2.2 TFLOPS to more naturally compare it to the 1.31 TFLOPS Xbox One, the 1.4 TFLOPS Xbox One S, or the 1.84 TFLOPS PlayStation 4.

Interesting, from what I saw from digital foundries benchmark comparisons, the 3.07 tflops tracks quite nicely. Switch 2 was performing between the PS4 and PS4 Pro in the GPU benchmarks and at times even approaching PS4 Pro levels, which is 4.2 tflops. The Series S also has significant advantages in bandwidth, more than 2,x so that might also play a factor in the performance differential, and while the Switch 2 won't be performing at Series S level,s, several devs have chimed in that it's closer to the Series S than the PS4 in capability.

 

[SABRE220]

Damn, imagine being compared to 360/PS3 games since you guys have poor eyesight.

VS

Ah, yes, there he is.....my god, you are so blatant with your cherry-picked screenshots. I already gave you in-game screenshots last time of Shadowfall which embarrasses Metroid 4 in fidelity, and you basically went nanana I can't hear you bullshots! Those are the worst cherry-picked screenshots of Shadowfall I have ever seen, even the Halo 4 shot is hand-picked. Let me help you with some in-game screenshots:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/ShadowFall1.jpg~original
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/20131208044809.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow%20Fall/ShadowFall4.jpg~original

And before you start whatabouting about bullshots, these are in-game screenshots directly posted by users in the 2015 console screenshots thread on this very forum.

Halo 4 is a 360 game, looks quite comparable actually, especially played on Xbox One and above.
https://i.redd.it/12gtcsjnza321.png
https://i.redd.it/skobe2ijizr51.jpg
https://i.redd.it/mirgpivm1fab1.jpg


You can at least pretend to be somewhat unbiased and reasonable with your post. You know how easy it is to make Metroid look bad cherry-picking screenshots? Keep in mind, unlike you, I didn't even pick some woefully compressed or doctored screenshots; these are straight out of the digital foundry Metroid 4 tech review, and I didn't even pick through them; these are straight posted on the first page.

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/1d5779318f25d/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/286528dbf73ff/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/8f660112c478f/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/02cec72417e9e/untitled.970x.jpg

Also, PS I am a massive Metroid fan who absolutely loved Metroid Prime 3, which was a true technical masterclass and was worthy amongst the best of any games at the time of launch, both in terms of tech and sheer quality and was amongst my favorite games of that absolutely stacked gen.

 

[FalconPunch]

Ah, yes, there he is.....my god, you are so blatant with your cherry-picked screenshots. I already gave you in-game screenshots last time of Shadowfall which embarrasses Metroid 4 in fidelity, and you basically went nanana I can't hear you bullshots! Those are the worst cherry-picked screenshots of Shadowfall I have ever seen, even the Halo 4 shot is hand-picked. Let me help you with some in-game screenshots:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/ShadowFall1.jpg~original
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/20131208044809.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow%20Fall/ShadowFall4.jpg~original

And before you start whatabouting about bullshots, these are in-game screenshots directly posted by users in the 2015 console screenshots on this very forum.

Halo 4 is a 360 game, looks quite comparable actually, especially played on Xbox One and above.
https://i.redd.it/12gtcsjnza321.png
https://i.redd.it/skobe2ijizr51.jpg
https://i.redd.it/mirgpivm1fab1.jpg


You can at least pretend to be somewhat unbiased and reasonable with your post. You know how easy it is to make Metroid look bad cherry-picking screenshots? Keep in mind, unlike you, I didn't even pick some woefully compressed or doctored screenshots; these are straight out of the digital foundry Metroid 4 tech review, and I didn't even pick through them; these are straight posted on the first page.

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/1d5779318f25d/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/286528dbf73ff/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/8f660112c478f/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/02cec72417e9e/untitled.970x.jpg

Also, PS I am a massive Metroid fan who absolutely loved Metroid Prime 3, which was a true technical masterclass and was worthy amongst the best of any games at the time of launch, both in terms of tech and sheer quality and was amongst my favorite games of that absolutely stacked gen.

Don't waste your time my dude. Some Nintendo fans are completely delusional. Unable to separate their love for the company from their ability to critically evaluate the products being released.

It's why Nintendo are in this sad state of releasing games bereft of any technical ambition with the same old tired gameplay. The switch 2 has very little innovation, the games released so far have no technical innovation at all. All last gen rendering techniques, last gen world design, last gen gameplay. Just look at the embarrassment that is pokemon. Why a game that looks so poor should have so many sales is beyond me especially with the horrible gameplay.

Compared to the gamecube, 3ds, wii, even the early years of the Switch, Nintendo has fallen so far.

 

[Balducci30]

Nintendo gotta be trolling. The total disregard of graphical advancement will bite them in the ass eventually - the good will and nostalgia won't carry them forever

 

[GymWolf]

People trolling the graphic of prime 4, when the gunplay is even worse, medal of honor on ps1 legit has better hit reactions than this thing



How the fuck can you not improve the shooting compared to a gc game? Like at all?

 

[Gonzito]

People trolling the graphic of prime 4, when the gunplay is even worse, medal of honor on ps1 legit has better hit reactions than this thing



How the fuck can you not improve the shooting compared to a gc game? Like at all?

Nintendo fanboys incoming

 

[GymWolf]

Nintendo fanboys incoming

Nintendo fanboys in a graphic fidelity topic? They would burn alive like vampires inside a church...

 

[pulicat]

Ah, yes, there he is.....my god, you are so blatant with your cherry-picked screenshots. I already gave you in-game screenshots last time of Shadowfall which embarrasses Metroid 4 in fidelity, and you basically went nanana I can't hear you bullshots! Those are the worst cherry-picked screenshots of Shadowfall I have ever seen, even the Halo 4 shot is hand-picked. Let me help you with some in-game screenshots:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/ShadowFall1.jpg~original
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/20131208044809.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow%20Fall/ShadowFall4.jpg~original

And before you start whatabouting about bullshots, these are in-game screenshots directly posted by users in the 2015 console screenshots thread on this very forum.

Halo 4 is a 360 game, looks quite comparable actually, especially played on Xbox One and above.
https://i.redd.it/12gtcsjnza321.png
https://i.redd.it/skobe2ijizr51.jpg
https://i.redd.it/mirgpivm1fab1.jpg


You can at least pretend to be somewhat unbiased and reasonable with your post. You know how easy it is to make Metroid look bad cherry-picking screenshots? Keep in mind, unlike you, I didn't even pick some woefully compressed or doctored screenshots; these are straight out of the digital foundry Metroid 4 tech review, and I didn't even pick through them; these are straight posted on the first page.

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/1d5779318f25d/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/286528dbf73ff/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/8f660112c478f/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/02cec72417e9e/untitled.970x.jpg

Also, PS I am a massive Metroid fan who absolutely loved Metroid Prime 3, which was a true technical masterclass and was worthy amongst the best of any games at the time of launch, both in terms of tech and sheer quality and was amongst my favorite games of that absolutely stacked gen.

Comparable? Yeah, you literally have no idea what you were talking about.

Halo 4 and KZSF

MP4

 

[rodrigolfp]

Ah, yes, there he is.....my god, you are so blatant with your cherry-picked screenshots. I already gave you in-game screenshots last time of Shadowfall which embarrasses Metroid 4 in fidelity, and you basically went nanana I can't hear you bullshots! Those are the worst cherry-picked screenshots of Shadowfall I have ever seen, even the Halo 4 shot is hand-picked. Let me help you with some in-game screenshots:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/ShadowFall1.jpg~original
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow Fall/20131208044809.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/nchoudhury/Shadow%20Fall/ShadowFall4.jpg~original

And before you start whatabouting about bullshots, these are in-game screenshots directly posted by users in the 2015 console screenshots thread on this very forum.

Halo 4 is a 360 game, looks quite comparable actually, especially played on Xbox One and above.
https://i.redd.it/12gtcsjnza321.png
https://i.redd.it/skobe2ijizr51.jpg
https://i.redd.it/mirgpivm1fab1.jpg


You can at least pretend to be somewhat unbiased and reasonable with your post. You know how easy it is to make Metroid look bad cherry-picking screenshots? Keep in mind, unlike you, I didn't even pick some woefully compressed or doctored screenshots; these are straight out of the digital foundry Metroid 4 tech review, and I didn't even pick through them; these are straight posted on the first page.

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/1d5779318f25d/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/286528dbf73ff/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/8f660112c478f/untitled.970x.jpg

https://images.digitalfoundry.net/02cec72417e9e/untitled.970x.jpg

Also, PS I am a massive Metroid fan who absolutely loved Metroid Prime 3, which was a true technical masterclass and was worthy amongst the best of any games at the time of launch, both in terms of tech and sheer quality and was amongst my favorite games of that absolutely stacked gen.

Cool but Halo 4 and KZ Shadowfall run at potato 30fps, so any visual advantage that they have means nothing in that scenario.

 

[Toots]

Soros

insane to see Expedition 33 devs, all young kids right out of college.

This is becoming the "he made it in a cave with a box of scraps" of the vg industry.

They are not. Half of them are Ubisoft "dropouts" who decided to go make the game they would like to play instead of Ubislop, and have linkedin accounts with work exp dating back at least ten years (look at Guillaume Broche), or have this type of bio on their linkedin accounts : "Game Designer with over 10 years of experience on PC multiplayer games. I have experience working on Systems, Content, Economy, AI design and more, on very different types of complex games. (MMORPG, ARPG, JRPG, Competitive Shooter)" (look at Michel Nohra).

Expedition 33 is good enough on its own so you don't have to create a cheap mythos about the game's creation by a bunch of kids who nobody told it was impossible so they did it anyway or some equally tacky storytelling.
E33 is a good game, full of shortcoming, which shine more in comparison to the overall garbage tier product AAA devs churn out monthly than on its own.

Plus most of the visuals were outsourced to korean devs anyway (who might be kids fresh out of college for all we know).

Nintendo gotta be trolling. The total disregard of graphical advancement will bite them in the ass eventually - the good will and nostalgia won't carry them forever

I won't be so sure, Nintendo has the most loyal fanbase ever.
Twelve year old (or less) are very impressionnable.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is becoming the "he made it in a cave with a box of scraps" of the vg industry.

They are not. Half of them are Ubisoft "dropouts" who decided to go make the game they would like to play instead of Ubislop, and have linkedin accounts with work exp dating back at least ten years (look at Guillaume Broche), or have this type of bio on their linkedin accounts : "Game Designer with over 10 years of experience on PC multiplayer games. I have experience working on Systems, Content, Economy, AI design and more, on very different types of complex games. (MMORPG, ARPG, JRPG, Competitive Shooter)" (look at Michel Nohra).

Expedition 33 is good enough on its own so you don't have to create a cheap mythos about the game's creation by a bunch of kids who nobody told it was impossible so they did it anyway or some equally tacky storytelling.
E33 is a good game, full of shortcoming, which shine more in comparison to the overall garbage tier product AAA devs churn out monthly than on its own.

Plus most of the visuals were outsourced to korean devs anyway (who might be kids fresh out of college for all we know).


I won't be so sure, Nintendo has the most loyal fanbase ever.
Twelve year old (or less) are very impressionnable.

nope. only 3 devs came out of ubisoft. the rest are straight out of college.

 

[Wolzard]

KZSF is still one of the better looking PS4 games and ran at 1080p/30fps. MP4 is capable of 1080p/120fps.


I mean, the hope was for the Switch 2 to be PS4-level prior to release. So to have a cross-gen game as good looking as Metroid Prime 4 running at 1440p/60fps or 1080p/120fps on a $450 mobile device in it's first year on the market is quite impressive IMO.

KZSF runs at 960x1080 (1,036,800 pixels), roughly equivalent to 720p (921,600 pixels).

 

[Bojji]

KZSF runs at 960x1080 (1,036,800 pixels), roughly equivalent to 720p (921,600 pixels).

In multiplayer (that aimed at 60fps), campaign is 1920x1080p.

 

[analog_future]

In multiplayer (that aimed at 60fps), campaign is 1920x1080p.

The KZSF devs have said they use some type of temporal reconstruction to reach 1080p, even in campaign.

 

[Bojji]

The KZSF devs have said they use some type of temporal reconstruction to reach 1080p, even in campaign.

In Theory: 1080p30 vs 720p60 - could next-gen let us choose?

Digital Foundry on why trading pixels for frame-rate isn't quite as straightforward as it seems

www.digitalfoundry.net

In the single-player mode, the game runs at full 1080p with an unlocked frame-rate (though a 30fps cap has been introduced as an option in a recent patch), but it's a different story altogether with multiplayer. Here Guerrilla Games has opted for a 960x1080 framebuffer, in pursuit of a 60fps refresh.

Comparable? Yeah, you literally have no idea what you were talking about.

Halo 4 and KZSF

MP4

That is some really bad KZSF screenshot you used...

With 4K TAA patch game would look quite good even in 2025.

 

[kevboard]

Interesting, from what I saw from digital foundries benchmark comparisons, the 3.07 tflops tracks quite nicely. Switch 2 was performing between the PS4 and PS4 Pro in the GPU benchmarks and at times even approaching PS4 Pro levels, which is 4.2 tflops. The Series S also has significant advantages in bandwidth, more than 2,x so that might also play a factor in the performance differential, and while the Switch 2 won't be performing at Series S level,s, several devs have chimed in that it's closer to the Series S than the PS4 in capability.

not a single game shows what you said there.

every single game on Switch 2 is almost exactly reaching half the resolution or half the performance of the Series S, with not a single exception that I could name.
often with reduced settings on top of that.

and this then usually also corresponds with the PS4 version.
it's often PS4 like, but more stable.

again, I couldn't name a game where this isn't true

 

[Toots]

nope. only 3 devs came out of ubisoft. the rest are straight out of college.

Non. You are pulling this info straight out of your ass.
Although a nice looking UE5 world with non existent interactivity is actually doable for college students, the more interesting parts such as combat and story were made by korean slave labor and old ass french dudes (ie 30+ yo with years of industry experience) respectively.
Anyway, let's not derail the thread from the fascinating "Are switch 2 games uglier than a 11 yo Sony first party" debate.

 

[SlimySnake]

Non. You are pulling this info straight out of your ass.
Although a nice looking UE5 world with non existent interactivity is actually doable for college students, the more interesting parts such as combat and story were made by korean slave labor and old ass french dudes (ie 30+ yo with years of industry experience) respectively.
Anyway, let's not derail the thread from the fascinating "Are switch 2 games uglier than a 11 yo Sony first party" debate.

you are wrong. do your research.

there is zero evidence that korean labor was involved in combat. that kind of stuff does not get outsourced. Laughable to suggest story was done by koreans or devs with 30 years of experience when the creators are in their early 30s themselves. small pots and pans designs, sure, they might get outsourced. but not combat or level design. and again, there are 3 ubisoft devs. the rest are all young gen z kids. you can see the entire team here. including the creators.

Team | Sandfall Interactive

www.sandfall.co

i understand its hard to understand how these people made such an amazing game. but it happened. no need to dismiss it. Lets just hope Nintendo, Sony, Ubisoft and MS devs can learn and adapt.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

This thread name is "

Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen"

not a "Can Switch 2 beat 13 year old PS4?"

 

[SABRE220]

not a single game shows what you said there.

every single game on Switch 2 is almost exactly reaching half the resolution or half the performance of the Series S, with not a single exception that I could name.
often with reduced settings on top of that.

and this then usually also corresponds with the PS4 version.
it's often PS4 like, but more stable.

again, I couldn't name a game where this isn't true

Wait, do you mean the Switch 2 closer to Series S by developers? I think that's taking DLSS into account. In a modern game using the more advanced featureset, DLSS and rendering techniques that cant run on the ps4 I think its not too outlandish a statement that the Switch 2 is closer to the Series S than the PS4 albeit this was presented in a very optimistic tone by developers, implying closer proximity to the latter than reality.

If you meant in comparison to the PS4 and pro Cyberpunk 2077 is a very prominent example, tested by Digital Foundry.

"So, what have we learned? I think Virtuos/Black Shamrock's comments about the CPU performance from Switch 2 are born out - ballpark last-gen performance makes sense in a resource-constrained device running at low clock speeds. The GPU side of things sees Switch 2 perform very nicely for a system in the 20W ballpark, pulling ahead of PS4 and even getting into PS4 Pro territory in some cases - all the while running the computationally heavy DLSS upscaler."

 

[SlimySnake]

Damn, imagine being compared to 360/PS3 games since you guys have poor eyesight.

VS

Those metroid screenshots look so fucking dated my god. Very poor material quality even by PS4 gen standards. The textures just dont feel last gen. it's like there is a lighting pass missing or just lacking detail.

I understand this is a switch game running at 60 fps. Which means we cant exactly compare it to PS360 era games like Halo 4, KZ2, and Uncharted 3 which all ran at 30 fps. So it only really has half of the pixel budget to push those textures, but honestly if retro took over this project in 2020, they shouldve never made it a Switch game. they couldve also downported a 30 fps version to the switch. if doom can be 30 fps on the switch in 2018 then surely no one would mind it in 2025.

 

[SABRE220]

Cool but Halo 4 and KZ Shadowfall run at potato 30fps, so any visual advantage that they have means nothing in that scenario.

Killzone Shadowfall runs at 60fps in multiplayer and still wipes the floor with Metroid 4in fidelity, and Halo 4 runs at 1080p 60fps on the potato Xbox One and still looks comparable to Metroid....I mean if you put enough tangents to comparisons, any comparison between graphics becomes meaningless.

 

[Lokaum D+]

You must be borderline retarded. Use proper screenshots for both games idiot.

why would he if it doesnt fit his narrative ?

 

[SlimySnake]

This thread name is "

Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen"

not a "Can Switch 2 beat 13 year old PS4?"

Switch 2 is considered by many to be current gen.

it also has games that look absolutely stunning thanks to not just talented developers but also because well, the hardware is clearly capable. It's priced like a current gen console, the game is priced like an AAA current gen game, and it has to be held to the same high standards. DF wont do it because they would rather guzzle down cum of their favorite developers by the gallons. But doesnt mean we have to glaze them either.

 

[SlimySnake]

Killzone shadowfall runs at 60fps in multiplayer and still wipes the floor with Metroid 4 and halo4 runs at 1080p 60fps on the potato xbox one and still looks comparable to metroid.

I posted BF4 earlier. It also ran at 60 fps on the PS4x1. Despite having a much worse CPU than whats in the switch 2.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Killzone shadowfall runs at 60fps in multiplayer and still wipes the floor with Metroid 4 and halo4 runs at 1080p 60fps on the potato xbox one and still looks comparable to metroid.

With reconstructed resolution and not the same "beauty" of the campaign. And Halo 4 at 1080p/60fps on XBO is not the same as on X360, otherwise it would also be 1080/60 on X360.

 

[SABRE220]

Comparable? Yeah, you literally have no idea what you were talking about.

Halo 4 and KZSF

MP4

There you go again with the cherry-picked screenshots with compression turned up to 11, you completely ignored the in-game screenshots I posted to actually discuss the graphics fidelity. Even so, in your mind, do those Metroid screenshots really look impressive? The level of rose-tinted glasses is worrying. There are games on the Switch 2 that make Metroid look dated already, so I don't know why you are so desperate in its defense to the point of desperate dishonesty.

 

[kevboard]

Wait, do you mean the Switch 2 closer to Series S by developers? I think that's taking DLSS into account. In a modern game using the more advanced featureset, DLSS and rendering techniques that cant run on the ps4 I think its not too outlandish a statement that the Switch 2 is closer to the Series S than the PS4 albeit this was presented in a very optimistic tone by developers, implying closer proximity to the latter than reality.

it's still, on a pure raster performance level, basically a PS4+

it's a PS4 with a slightly better CPU and a slightly better GPU.

If you meant in comparison to the PS4 and pro Cyberpunk 2077 is a very prominent example, tested by Digital Foundry.

a prominent example of how it's closer to the base PS4 in performance.
and also running, again, almost exactly at half the performance and/or resolution of the Series S (depending on the mode selected)

"So, what have we learned? I think Virtuos/Black Shamrock's comments about the CPU performance from Switch 2 are born out - ballpark last-gen performance makes sense in a resource-constrained device running at low clock speeds. The GPU side of things sees Switch 2 perform very nicely for a system in the 20W ballpark, pulling ahead of PS4 and even getting into PS4 Pro territory in some cases - all the while running the computationally heavy DLSS upscaler."

it never comes into PS4 Pro territory. not a single game did so far.
DLSS is also not any more heavy to run than FSR2/3. it just looks better.
so the Series S in Cyberpunk is a good comparison point. Switch 2 runs DLSS, Series S runs FSR. similar GPU load added, while the Series S has a 2x higher internal res, runs more stable, and has higher settings.

the CPU performance then comes into play when setting the Series S to performance mode of course, where it then runs at roughly the same res as the Switch 2's quality mode, but at twice the FPS, showing again that the GPU is capable of 2x the raster performance of the Switch 2.


the Switch 2 is basically a PS4+,
slightly faster (10%~20%) in both CPU and GPU,
has RT Cores,
has Tensor Cores.

the RT Cores allow for effects that the PS4 couldn't render,
the Tensor Cores allow games to look better than their internal resolution would suggest.

but at its core, it's essentially a PS4, with a slight performance bonus, and an upgrade from the DirectX 12 feature set to the full DirectX 12 Ultimate feature set. (I am using DirectX as the metric here because basically all other APIs basically just mimic DirectX's festures)


Metroid Prime 4 doesn't use any DX12 Ultimate features that the PS4 or Xbox One couldn't also run. because it's a Switch 1 game ported to Switch 2.
you brought up Halo 4 on Xbox One as a comparison, and I pointed out that your comparison fully matches the expected performance you'd see on Switch 2, of a Halo 4 level title running on the Switch 2's GPU.

so DLSS, RT, DX12 Ultimate features like Sampler Feedback, Mesh Shaders or anything like that is entirely irrelevant here.

the relevant metric when looking at Prime 4 in comparison to Halo 4 is the pure raster performance of the GPU. and the pure raster performance is in the ballpark of a 2.0~2.2 TFLOPS GCN GPU.

 

[Bojji]

Those metroid screenshots look so fucking dated my god. Very poor material quality even by PS4 gen standards. The textures just dont feel last gen. it's like there is a lighting pass missing or just lacking detail.

I understand this is a switch game running at 60 fps. Which means we cant exactly compare it to PS360 era games like Halo 4, KZ2, and Uncharted 3 which all ran at 30 fps. So it only really has half of the pixel budget to push those textures, but honestly if retro took over this project in 2020, they shouldve never made it a Switch game. they couldve also downported a 30 fps version to the switch. if doom can be 30 fps on the switch in 2018 then surely no one would mind it in 2025.

From what I can see:

- no PBR
- no SSR
- no shadowmaps (baked shadows like in Halo games)
- simple lighting
- last gen AA (SMAA, that is terrible by today's standards, it was replaced by TAA half PS4 gen)

Yeah, game screams PS3 gen feature set (cube maps everywhere). Overall I think it looks ok and art is strong enough to make game pleasing to the eye in certain locations. And performance is great on S2.

 

[Toots]

you are wrong. do your research.

there is zero evidence that korean labor was involved in combat. that kind of stuff does not get outsourced. Laughable to suggest story was done by koreans or devs with 30 years of experience when the creators are in their early 30s themselves. small pots and pans designs, sure, they might get outsourced. but not combat or level design. and again, there are 3 ubisoft devs. the rest are all young gen z kids. you can see the entire team here. including the creators.

Team | Sandfall Interactive

www.sandfall.co

i understand its hard to understand how these people made such an amazing game. but it happened. no need to dismiss it. Lets just hope Nintendo, Sony, Ubisoft and MS devs can learn and adapt.

First you are wrong on what i said,

the more interesting parts such as combat and story were made by korean slave labor and old ass french dudes (ie 30+ yo with years of industry experience) respectively.

I said the guys who wrote the story were 30 yo + with years of industry experience, not with 30 years of experience. I also said the Korean slave labor made the combat (i should have said combat animations, of course the "card game" based combat gameplay was thought out by very uncool french nerds who love to spend all their free time playing weird card games with annoying rules - still a fun combat gameplay i admit). The "respectively" at the end was important.

Second you are essentially wrong, i did your research for you because im not a cunt, so just read those articles :

Article:

Firstly, there's the eight-person Korean 'gameplay animation' team. If you've played any of Clair Obscur, you'll know how vital animations are to its combat. Monsters feint and twirl in battle, pulling off elaborate combos that you'll need to parry and dodge. While we don't know specifically what 'gameplay animation' refers to, the only comparable discipline in-house on Sandfall's side is 'cinematic and performance capture'. So, I'm left to conclude that this Korean team are effectively responsible for a large part of why combat is fun in the first place, and a fair chunk of the game's personality besides.

Source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/no-clair-obscur-expedition-33-wasnt-made-by-30-people

Article:

There's been some debate as to what 'counts' as the total size of Clair Obscur's development team. While the game's credits do list around 30-40 staff working at Sandfall, it also lists numerous other outsourced animation, QA and performance capture staff – as Broche points out in the Automaton interview – that bring the total number of people involved in the game well into the hundreds. As such, some have argued that while the game was made with a smaller team than most triple-A titles, the claim that a hugely praised game was only made by a small team of 30-40 people isn't an entirely accurate one.

Source: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/id-prefer-working-as-a-small-team-clair-obscur-studio-exec-says-there-are-no-plans-to-expand/

Article:

However, this outsourcing was also "very targeted, very focused," Darrah believes, with teams outsourced to do "a bunch of their animation," as well as quality assurance (with an outsourced team that Darrah says "seems to be larger than the core team"), compatibility and performance testing, not to mention "audio and music localization," and their publishing partner.

Source: https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rpg/clair-obscur-expedition-33s-outsourcing-allowed-the-rpgs-in-house-team-to-stay-very-focused-on-building-that-core-speculates-former-dragon-age-dev-everyone-was-able-to-synergize-together/

I wonder, are you actually talking out of your ass on every topic, but with such self confidence that no one question the points you make ?

i understand its hard to let go of one's naïve wish for the world to be the way they want, especially in the cuththroat video game industry that make us dream and we love so much, and if it helps you sleep at night just keep on believing, hold on to the feeling i guess.

 

[GymWolf]

Stay calm and chill guys.

 

[analog_future]

Those metroid screenshots look so fucking dated my god. Very poor material quality even by PS4 gen standards. The textures just dont feel last gen. it's like there is a lighting pass missing or just lacking detail.

I understand this is a switch game running at 60 fps. Which means we cant exactly compare it to PS360 era games like Halo 4, KZ2, and Uncharted 3 which all ran at 30 fps. So it only really has half of the pixel budget to push those textures, but honestly if retro took over this project in 2020, they shouldve never made it a Switch game. they couldve also downported a 30 fps version to the switch. if doom can be 30 fps on the switch in 2018 then surely no one would mind it in 2025.

Not half. It runs at at twice the framerate and at least twice the resolution (most PS360 games are 720p, so really it's 4x the resolution) of any of those PS360 era games.

 

[Bojji]

Routine certainly looks interesting, like Alien Isolation on steroids with excessive sharpening and CA:

 

[RodriGames40]

DK Bananza, Mario kart World, Kirby and now this. It's obvious that the talent is simply not there at Nintendo. Nor the drive or ambition to make something truly amazing. They are great level designers, and do have that rare talent of extracting fun out of gameplay mechanics that other generic Ubisoft developers just cant, but it's like they are allergic to graphics. At this point, it's a matter of principle. You release a $70 game and it has to look next gen. Or at the very least PS4 gen. otherwise wtf is the point of giving this console a 3 tflops nvidia GPU capable of DLSS and ray tracing? Bumping up the price to near $500.

Or have some self respect. You put your name next to a game, it cant look like this in 2025. I feel like some devs over at Sony and Nintendo have received so much praise and accolades over the last few years that they have lost that ambition and drive to be the best of the best.

I say let them retire and have the new Genz guys take over. They come with their own issues but at least they have that drive that these old farts are lacking. insane to see Expedition 33 devs, all young kids right out of college.

This is the strangest thing of them all and why Nintendo of all devs fucking up like this makes no sense. They have the lowest employee turnout rates of the entire industry, engineering wizards from the N64 era are still there for gods sake!

 

[Gonzito]

Routine certainly looks interesting, like Alien Isolation on steroids with excessive sharpening and CA:

Let me know how the game is. If it's a walking sim or there is some complexity in the gameplay

 

[Bojji]

Let me know how the game is. If it's a walking sim or there is some complexity in the gameplay

I will play more tonight (best environment for horror game), I like games like that (even walking sims). Tomorrow I will have more info if my eyes will still work after looking at this amount of Chromatic Abberation and sharpening.

 

[SlimySnake]

First you are wrong on what i said,



I said the guys who wrote the story were 30 yo + with years of industry experience, not with 30 years of experience. I also said the Korean slave labor made the combat (i should have said combat animations, of course the "card game" based combat gameplay was thought out by very uncool french nerds who love to spend all their free time playing weird card games with annoying rules - still a fun combat gameplay i admit). The "respectively" at the end was important.

Second you are essentially wrong, i did your research for you because im not a cunt, so just read those articles :

Article:

Firstly, there's the eight-person Korean 'gameplay animation' team. If you've played any of Clair Obscur, you'll know how vital animations are to its combat. Monsters feint and twirl in battle, pulling off elaborate combos that you'll need to parry and dodge. While we don't know specifically what 'gameplay animation' refers to, the only comparable discipline in-house on Sandfall's side is 'cinematic and performance capture'. So, I'm left to conclude that this Korean team are effectively responsible for a large part of why combat is fun in the first place, and a fair chunk of the game's personality besides.

Source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/no-clair-obscur-expedition-33-wasnt-made-by-30-people

Article:

There's been some debate as to what 'counts' as the total size of Clair Obscur's development team. While the game's credits do list around 30-40 staff working at Sandfall, it also lists numerous other outsourced animation, QA and performance capture staff – as Broche points out in the Automaton interview – that bring the total number of people involved in the game well into the hundreds. As such, some have argued that while the game was made with a smaller team than most triple-A titles, the claim that a hugely praised game was only made by a small team of 30-40 people isn't an entirely accurate one.

Source: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/id-prefer-working-as-a-small-team-clair-obscur-studio-exec-says-there-are-no-plans-to-expand/

Article:

However, this outsourcing was also "very targeted, very focused," Darrah believes, with teams outsourced to do "a bunch of their animation," as well as quality assurance (with an outsourced team that Darrah says "seems to be larger than the core team"), compatibility and performance testing, not to mention "audio and music localization," and their publishing partner.

Source: https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rpg/clair-obscur-expedition-33s-outsourcing-allowed-the-rpgs-in-house-team-to-stay-very-focused-on-building-that-core-speculates-former-dragon-age-dev-everyone-was-able-to-synergize-together/

I wonder, are you actually talking out of your ass on every topic, but with such self confidence that no one question the points you make ?

i understand its hard to let go of one's naïve wish for the world to be the way they want, especially in the cuththroat video game industry that make us dream and we love so much, and if it helps you sleep at night just keep on believing, hold on to the feeling i guess.

All of those sources are people just speculating. None of those are direct sources.

So, I'm left to conclude that this Korean team are effectively responsible for a large part of why combat is fun in the first place, and a fair chunk of the game's personality besides.

Maybe this retard should've asked the studio seeing as how he's in the industry and should just be able to pick up the phone and ask from the horse's mouth instead of speculating and going by credits.


And every game outsources. We did this a few weeks ago. Exp 33 had around 400 dev credits, which is very low compared to other game studios like Obsidian who had 1,300 to 1,500 people credited in the post game credits. Means nothing really. The main animations, storytelling, music, combat, level design is done inhouse. You really think Neil and ND are outsourcing their level design that they spend 18-24 months perfecting to some korean or indian slave labor? Same is true for CD Project which used 1,500 devs for Cyberpunk when the core studio was roughly around 500 devs.

If outsourcing was so amazing at producing games like Expedition 33 then fucking Sony, MS and Nintendo studios would be cranking out those animations and graphics and storytelling because they outsource 5x more. I can promise you the real talent comes from inhouse and they are the ones who came up these incredible animations with korean dudes providing support to iron out some kinks here and there.

Instead, this is what we have from Nintendo and Sony after 5-6 years of dev time. And a lot more outsourcing.

In a week, we are going to see a game from a dev team of 24 people. These guys are actually refusing any outside help from krafton's support studios. they made Ascent with 12 people and are able to produce these graphics with just 24 people.

Are we going to dismiss them as well? Or are we going to finally call out Sony and Nintendo studios for making PS4 and PS3 era games?

 

[SlimySnake]

From what I can see:

- no PBR

Thanks. That is probably what I was seeing or not seeing.

 

[analog_future]

All of those sources are people just speculating. None of those are direct sources.





Maybe this retard should've asked the studio seeing as how he's in the industry and should just be able to pick up the phone and ask from the horse's mouth instead of speculating and going by credits.


And every game outsources. We did this a few weeks ago. Exp 33 had around 400 dev credits, which is very low compared to other game studios like Obsidian who had 1,300 to 1,500 people credited in the post game credits. Means nothing really. The main animations, storytelling, music, combat, level design is done inhouse. You really think Neil and ND are outsourcing their level design that they spend 18-24 months perfecting to some korean or indian slave labor? Same is true for CD Project which used 1,500 devs for Cyberpunk when the core studio was roughly around 500 devs.

If outsourcing was so amazing at producing games like Expedition 33 then fucking Sony, MS and Nintendo studios would be cranking out those animations and graphics and storytelling because they outsource 5x more. I can promise you the real talent comes from inhouse and they are the ones who came up these incredible animations with korean dudes providing support to iron out some kinks here and there.

Instead, this is what we have from Nintendo and Sony after 5-6 years of dev time. And a lot more outsourcing.

In a week, we are going to see a game from a dev team of 24 people. These guys are actually refusing any outside help from krafton's support studios. they made Ascent with 12 people and are able to produce these graphics with just 24 people.

Are we going to dismiss them as well? Or are we going to finally call out Sony and Nintendo studios for making PS4 and PS3 era games?

Nintendo hasn't prioritized cutting edge visuals since literally last century. You'd think we'd have our expectations in check for what types of games they produce by now.

 

[SlimySnake]

Nintendo hasn't prioritized cutting edge visuals since literally last century. You'd think we'd have our expectations in check for what types of games they produce by now.

Like i said earlier, if you are charging $450 for a console and $70 for a game you ought to at least have PS4 quality visuals right now.

Having a reputation for producing trashy looking garbage for well over 2 decades doesnt excuse them from criticism either. It made sense the last three generations when they were first stuck with a ps2 era then two ps3 equivalent consoles back to back. Not anymore. Time to stop treating them with kids gloves. This kind of attitude of letting it slide is how we got 5 years of cross gen trash from Sony.

 

[Myuni]

I have just watched the Skill Up MP4 review.



The graphics are somewhat disappointing. Materials and lighting can be done way better on Switch 2.
IMO the desert track in Fast Fusion (yeah, 30 FPS and heavily upscaled) looks far better, more detailed.
I'm still impressed with the overall fidelity and playability of Fast Fusion, a true Switch 2 showcase.

MP4 shot (captured from Skill Up review):

Fast Fusion: