GreenManGaming selling unauthorized Ubi/Acti/WB keys

To my knowledge there is no way to distinguish between marketplace keys and G2A keys, and I don't think G2A is considered an authorized retailer for anyone.

When you look at a listing, it says "available from 12 (or however many) marketplace sellers" with ratings, country of origin, etc.

I'm pretty sure that they do occasionally sell keys directly, too, but I'm not exactly sure.

But a marketplace seller is certainly an individual, right? Or at least as much of an individual as a random anonymous NEOGAF user.

Edit: country of origin is for the seller not the key, though it does typically say what regions it will or will not activate in.
 
What he said is that for some games they are an authorized original retailer and for others they buy keys from third parties authorized by the publisher.

Why do you care if they come from a third party if the third party is authorized by the publisher to sell the keys to GMG? Makes literally no sense.
You work for them or something bro? I don"t know how you could defend their shir after Blops3 fiasco that prove their practice does can hurt us as customer.

For example who knows you can get SFV pre-order costume or not as their buyer which is not something to have doubt for withoutl these fiasco and doubt they being authorized or not, they somehow broke the trust.
 
Completely finished with gmg since I bought fallout 4. Game had (AU) on the page and no mention of USD and still charged me in USD. Also the American website had it for $15 cheaper. Latter is probs the publishers fault but still.
 
The statement they put out says they only buy from publisher-authorized middle men. This has just reached the point of people just calling him a liar that cannot be trusted with no evidence.

Sorry, I'm taking his word for it over the word of some anonymous Reddit mod until there is actual proof.

That's about as vague a statement as it gets. Again, GMG has had many, many chances to validate their sourcing with the Reddit mods (who even said they want them to be there), but they refuse to correspond every single time. Yet, many other key sellers validate themselves with no problem.

I don't see how a subreddit that serves so many people is in the wrong for asking a site to give a shred of proof that they're legitimate.
 
The statement they put out says they only buy from publisher-authorized middle men. This has just reached the point of people just calling him a liar that cannot be trusted with no evidence.

Sorry, I'm taking his word for it over the word of some anonymous Reddit mod until there is actual proof.

I mean, their current statement contradicts with the "about" section of their site, so yes, they are liars:

About:
We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence.

Statement:
We reiterate that we source our keys from a range of over 400 publishers, developers, and distributors to meet customer’s demands on a title by title basis. Let’s be clear here; there is a difference between being an authorised retailer for some titles, and being a retailer selling keys that have been sourced responsibly through authorised third parties with revenue going back to the publisher. If a key unlocks, it is an authentic key.
 
You work for them or something bro? I don"t know how you could defend their shir after Blops3 fiasco that prove their practice does can hurt us as customer.

For example who knows you can get SFV pre-order costume or not as their buyer which is not something to have doubt for withoutl these fiasco and doubt they being authorized or not, they somehow broke the trust.

I've bought dozens of games from them and never had a single problem. I'm not suddenly going to stop buying from them because some small amount of people had issues and some power-mad Reddit mods decided to put the screws to them with no evidence.
 
I've bought dozens of games from them and never had a single problem. I'm not suddenly going to stop buying from them because some small amount of people had issues and some power-mad Reddit mods decided to put the screws to them with no evidence.
So in the end its down to "its works for me"

Figures lol
 
So in the end its down to "its works for me"

Figures lol

Of course it does. Why wouldn't it? Always had a good experience, always got what I paid for, never had a single issue.

I should just pay 20% more for every PC game I buy just to appease GAF and Reddit's unsourced suspicions?
 
So they're basically confirming some of their keys aren't directly from publishers and are saying "it's ok, it's authorized if it unlocks"

edit: authentic not authorized - point is they're not an authorized retailer for certain pubs even though the keys are allegedly authentic
They are buying authentic keys from authorized resellers. There is absolutely nothing wrong going on here. You're vendetta is becoming hard to understand. Go ahead and buy your keys for full price. Myself and I'm sure many others will happily keep buying discounted keys from GMG.

I worked in an independent games store and we sourced games from authorized resellers from other countries so we could compete with the big chains (eg EB Games) who were trying to run us out of business. As a result, our games were cheaper and the customers loved it.

It's business 101. "Hey publisher, you won't give me the same deal you give EB Games? Ok, I'll find them cheaper elsewhere thankyouverymuch. Have a nice day."

Nothing illegal going on here. Silly thread.
 
Just read the update. So basically GMG admitted they got keys of some games from a middle man but acted like there was no wrong on their part and threw a fist toward Reddit moderators.


What a jackass.
 
I mean, their current statement contradicts with the "about" section of their site, so yes, they are liars:

About:


Statement:

To be fair, (totally hypothetical) if for exemple they have a deal with Activision for Deadpool but are buying Black Ops 3 keys from an authorized retailer their statements would still be true.
 
They are buying authentic keys from authorized resellers. There is absolutely nothing wrong going on here. You're vendetta is becoming hard to understand. Go ahead and buy your keys for full price. Myself and I'm sure many others will happily keep buying discounted keys from GMG.

I worked in an independent games store and we sourced games from authorized resellers from other countries so we could compete with the big chains (eg EB Games) who were trying to run us out of business. As a result, our games were cheaper and the customers loved it.

It's business 101. "Hey publisher, you won't give me the same deal you give EB Games? Ok, I'll find them cheaper elsewhere thankyouverymuch. Have a nice day."

Nothing illegal going on here. Silly thread.

It's not that something illegal is going on. It's that GMG are being dishonest with their customers. I've bought from them in the past, recently even, but I'd rather give my money to a company that is transparent towards their customers. I don't have a vendetta against GMG. I do dislike companies that try to mislead consumers though.

My position on the situation developed as the information developed, this can be seen across the thread. I'm not telling anyone to not buy from GMG. I do think people should put pressure on them to be more transparent/honest though.
 
I can understand that the language seems to have shifted a bit and that some of these anecdotes make some uncomfortable. I mean, honestly, I find myself wondering which category to place GreenManGaming in. However, I think the thing that bothers me about just straight up calling GMG a key reseller and disregarding their past status as a reputable vendor is that I don't really feel like there's been a smoking gun to undermine them.

Yes, CD Projekt Red did sort of call them out, but they ultimately didn't see that accusation through to any sort of conclusion. CDPR initially questioned them, GMG offered a response, and that was basically the end of it.

There's other recent question marks, mind you. And I don't think endusers are wrong to question them if they are concerned about only buying for authorized resellers that work directly with publishers, as was thought to be the case with GMG once upon a time. But before I classify them as a gray market key reseller, I feel like we need more information than just hearsay to understand what's going on with situations like BLOPS 2 keys missing content or what have you.

I'm not going to pretend like I know the science behind key generation. But I feel like if GMG is really doing something that's not kosher, it should be provable. Like those BLOPS keys. Shouldn't Activision be able to trace the source for them if there's some sort of foul play at work here? If CDPR was truly concerned with their source given that they didn't sell GMG the keys, couldn't they have found that out post release and followed up publicly seeing as how they were willing to start that battle publicly pre-release?

I'm not really trying to go to bat for GMG and insist that I believe them to be on the up and up. However, I'm also uncomfortable throwing them under the bus right now based on what is really just hearsay at this point.
 
It's not that something illegal is going on. It's that GMG are being dishonest with their customers. I've bought from them in the past, recently even, but I'd rather give my money to a company that is transparent towards their customers. I don't have a vendetta against GMG. I do dislike companies that try to mislead consumers though.
Ok. If they changed a couple of words on their about page, you'd relax a bit?

Like I said, they are just an independent business trying to compete with the big boys and offer their customers value for money. I understand this as I've been exactly in their position.

Furthermore, whilst I admit this digital age may change things in some ways (not yet sure), I have had direct one on one phone conversations with AAA publishers over this exact issue and the conversations resulted in a basic "pretty please don't sell cheaper games than EB, they're not happy". Which I laughed at.

Because there is absolutely nothing illegal or morally wrong going on here.
 
If anything, that reddit thread group have a nice list of companies not to buy from.
Showing your contracts to a reddit mod, YEAH those companies I will trust. NOT.

And a certain software just went bye bye.
 
The fact mods think they should deserve access to contracts is silly. At the end of the day its poor business to do this. Of course GMG is toeing the legal gray area. You magically can't be selling games lower than everyone else. Its an industry thats fairly controlled pricing wise.

Would i trust a bunch of keyboard warriors on reddit. Nope. I've learned the internet is full of more crap than anything. Does GMG have some supply chain issues sure, a ton of companies do.
 
If anything, that reddit thread group have a nice list of companies not to buy from.
Showing your contracts to a reddit mod, YEAH those companies I will trust. NOT.

And a certain software just went bye bye.
"Just show us your most-likely-confidential distribution contracts so we can post your deals on our subreddit."

Sounds super above board /s
 
If anything, that reddit thread group have a nice list of companies not to buy from.
Showing your contracts to a reddit mod, YEAH those companies I will trust. NOT.

And a certain software just went bye bye.
Exactly. In my time, the big publishers tried to get us to reveal where we were getting our cheaper games so they could PRESSURE THEM (as authorized resellers) into not supplying us with stock and all of this was to make EB Games happy. Do you think we revealed our supplier info? Fuck no.
 
Does anyone have another good site that only has digital PC deals in an easy to read format? After seeing those power-tripping mods on GameDeals I'm ready to switch to an alternative.
 
Does anyone have another good site that only has digital PC deals in an easy to read format? After seeing those power-tripping mods on GameDeals I'm ready to switch to an alternative.

I often use HotUKDeals, although your mileage may vary (especially if you aren't from the UK).

They do seem to have an unwritten partnership with CDKeys, however, and have been known to delete posts about G2A - despite being very similar sites.
 
WBEaght.png


And in the UK... 77 USD/50 GBP, it might be a great game, but 50 pounds is taking the piss..
 
I used that in the past but stopped for some reason. I'll bookmark it and see how it goes. Thanks
I often use HotUKDeals, although your mileage may vary (especially if you aren't from the UK).

They do seem to have an unwritten partnership with CDKeys, however, and have been known to delete posts about G2A - despite being very similar sites.

Yeah I visit it every now and then, but the UK focus makes it annoying to browse sometimes .
 
WBEaght.png


And in the UK... 77 USD/50 GBP, it might be a great game, but 50 pounds is taking the piss..

Yup. GoG harp on about "fair pricing", but give you the difference in the form of credit.

I'd much rather have Witcher 3 for £38.89 instead, although even that is far above other sites.
 
"Just show us your most-likely-confidential distribution contracts so we can post your deals on our subreddit."

Sounds super above board /s
Without any moderation effort like that they'd just random slickdeals thread.
Not well known source that even pubs/devs figure often bother to drop by.

These mods not even get paid. So boohoo for some of you attempt to accuse them of power hungry.
 
From the sounds of it, gmg is doing nothing wrong and the sub reddit is trying to say they did. Cdpr soured me on the Witcher 3 with how they acted.

The sub reddit looks pretty bad in this.
 
Without any moderation effort like that they'd just random slickdeals thread.

This. Mods of large subs often use confidential information to verify the identity of people. We do it here at gaf as well. I don't understand why people think this is so bizarre.

From the sounds of it, gmg is doing nothing wrong and the sub reddit is trying to say they did. Cdpr soured me on the Witcher 3 with how they acted.

The sub reddit looks pretty bad in this.

The subreddit isn't really involved in this at this point - GMG have dug their own grave with their statement. The mods of the sub acted based upon concerns raised by the users in the sub after BLOPS3 keys were delivered with issues.
 
This seems like a witch hunt to me. I bought Fallout 4, and many other titles from GMG, and I've never been slighted by them.
 
This seems like a witch hunt to me. I bought Fallout 4, and many other titles from GMG, and I've never been slighted by them.

I does seem like a bunch of reddit mods are being pissy because a retailer doesn't want to play by their rules
 
Reddit is a fucking joke, I can't believe the situation escalated this much.
 
OP certainly seems to be pretty invested in showing GMG to be scummy.

I does seem like a bunch of reddit mods are being pissy because a retailer doesn't want to play by their rules

I mean, I've presented all data for and against the claims made by GMG. You can read them and reach your conclusions. The statement released by GMG contradicts their mission statement, so it should be in their best interest to update their mission statement and make their store front more transparent towards buyers as to which keys they sell directly from publishers and which keys they sell from third parties that they claim to be legit. It's not an unreasonable request I'd say.

GMG have themselves admitted to not getting keys directly from the publisher sometimes, trying to discredit the issue by questioning the motives of the reddit mods is irrelevant.
 
never had any problems with GMG but i reserve those purchases for games i'm kind of so-so on that have a good deal. i wouldn't risk it with something i'm hotly anticipating

that way, worst case scenario, i'm just out 30 or 40 bucks
 
This seems like a witch hunt to me. I bought Fallout 4, and many other titles from GMG, and I've never been slighted by them.

These anecdotes are always inconsequential to the actual matter. I've had no issues with CD Key sites, but that doesn't mean they're "legit" in a publishers eyes.
 
This. Mods of large subs often use confidential information to verify the identity of people. We do it here at gaf as well. I don't understand why people think this is so bizarre.



The subreddit isn't really involved in this at this point - GMG have dug their own grave with their statement. The mods of the sub acted based upon concerns raised by the users in the sub after BLOPS3 keys were delivered with issues.
I disagree and you seem to be on the witch hunt towards gmg.
 
This seems like a witch hunt to me. I bought Fallout 4, and many other titles from GMG, and I've never been slighted by them.

I've pretty much bought every game I've purchased in the last 4 years from GMG and, besides some late keys, they've always delivered a genuine key to me. However, they proudly claim on their website that they only deal directly with publishers... at some point they've expanded that to middle men who are approved by publishers, and that is a detail that customers have a right to know.
 
I disagree and you seem to be on the witch hunt towards gmg.

I've said several times that all it would take for it to satisfy me would be for GMG to add a tick mark next to games denoting whether it's directly sourced from a publisher or through a third party. How is this a witch hunt?
 
I mean, I've presented all data for and against the claims made by GMG. You can read them and reach your conclusions. The statement released by GMG contradicts their mission statement, so it should be in their best interest to update their mission statement and make their store front more transparent towards buyers as to which keys they sell directly from publishers and which keys they sell from third parties that they claim to be legit. It's not an unreasonable request I'd say.

GMG have themselves admitted to not getting keys directly from the publisher sometimes, trying to discredit the issue by questioning the motives of the reddit mods is irrelevant.

I don't totally disagree. But i feel this has turn into a massive witch hunt, with people jumping to conclusion based of generic statements from random customer service reps.
There currently is no evidence that their keys are sourced in any illegal way. I don't see a problem getting a product from a third party, many business do it. Its almost saying you expect a store to list if they got their cereal from kellogg's or they bought it from a third party wholesaler.
 
That they are unauthorised resellers for quite a few titles is a actual fact. Just see the Black Ops 3 situation. Or Witcher 3.

No it isn't. They specifically said in their statement that they bought from third party sellers authorized by the publishers. If a publisher authorized someone to sell Black Ops 3 to whoever, and GMG bought them, how does that make them an "unauthorised reseller?"
 
The issue here seems to be what's recognized as a "legitimate" key and what's not. There are a number of potential scenarios here with various levels of legitimacy:

1) Keys straight from publisher in region (ex. EA keys from Origin, Ubisoft keys from UPlay, indie devs giving away keys or selling on their own, etc.). 100% genuine article, no questions of legitimacy.

2) Reseller getting keys straight from publisher in region. This covers places like Steam and Humble Bundle, Origin and UPlay for third-party publishers, and so on. We assumed until now that this also covered Green Man Gaming. It probably still does for most of their games (WB Support has both confirmed and denied this is the case in separate conversations, for example). Essentially the same thing as #1 but with a middleman.

3) Reseller getting keys from authorized key distributors in region. One example of this happening is places like Costco selling PC game keys through a distributor, Codes2Go. Ubisoft lists Solutions2Go as an authorized distributor to Costco and Walmart, so I assume Codes2Go is owned/operated by Solutions2Go (though oddly I can't find mention of Codes2Go on the site). Essentially the same as #1 but with more middlemen than #2. It's unclear if GMG fits into this category or not for the Activision and Ubisoft cases. It's also unclear as to who qualifies as an authorized distributor or not. As an example, Staples in Canada also sells PC games via codes distributed by Codes2Go, but they're not on Ubisoft's list of authorized dealers.

4) Reseller getting keys from authorized key distributors, but out of region. This is the scenario others in this thread assume is happening, which would explain the pre-order discounts GMG is able to offer on big games. (Pre-order discounts shouldn't be assumed to be a smoking gun, however, or else Amazon and Best Buy in Canada would also be suspect due to their E3 promotions.) This is legally murky, as you'd expect from the practice's more common name, "grey market." Certain publishers on Steam have begun locking their keys to specific regions to enforce regional pricing.

5) Reseller getting keys from authorized retail sellers in the form of physical games. There was another key reseller who said they were essentially buying up pallets of physical games and cracking open the cases to pull the keys. (I don't recall if they also destroyed the discs afterwards.) GMG hasn't said anything about this being their source, but it would fit the language of buying from "authorized resellers." There's an additional wrinkle here in that the physical games may or may not be from the same region.

6) Reseller getting keys from unauthorized key distributors. What even counts as an "unauthorized key distributor?" Who knows? One potential example, though, would be keys given away in bundles and other promotions that are not intended for resale--i.e. Nvidia/AMD graphics card bundles. Hard to say what the law says about this kind of resale. Another example is individuals buying up Humble Bundles and selling individual keys at a markup. Polygon has discussed this practice in the past, and many assume this is where many G2A keys come from.

7) Other nefarious plots. Purchases on stolen credit cards have already been mentioned. There may be other examples but I'm not creative enough to come up with them.

8) Other not-so-nefarious plots?

The issue here is that beyond "publishers work directly with these stores," we don't really have any idea of what constitutes a legal sale of a game key, and if you're operating in the murky middle it's hard to get a definitive answer from anyone either. Since the only likely enforcement of any authorized resale regime will come from publishers themselves, and because there's a wide chasm between what they say (only buy from these stores) and what they do (many keys outside that ecosystem work, but many do not), it's hard to know what to do. It feels like for now, what determines legitimacy is as much up to the individual as anyone else.
 
No it isn't. They specifically said in their statement that they bought from third party sellers authorized by the publishers. If a publisher authorized someone to sell Black Ops 3 to whoever, and GMG bought them, how does that make them an "unauthorised reseller?"

See this post:

Because the publisher may not have authorized that "middle-man" to sell to GMG in the first place.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=185678720#post185678720

True, but as far as I'm aware nobody here started a business taking advantage of the regional price gap where they went on to sell to thousands or hundreds of thousands of customers. Even the more prominent regional price sellers around here such as Dunder didn't have nearly the same scope as sites like GreenManGaming. For example, I wouldn't put a link on Enhanced Steam saying "Email this guy for a better deal..."



Yes they still get paid (in a way) but as others have said it's almost certainly an issue where regional prices are being exploited. So let's say you're GMG - and WB offers to sell you keys for the latest Batman game that are authorized for distribution in the UK and US at $42 each. You can turn around and flip those for $60, meaning you walk away with a hefty $18 profit as the middle man. Now let's say you find a source similar to the one linked in the other thread where a local branch of WB offloads 100,000 keys for Batman to a seller at $10 each who wants to double that and sell them to GMG for $20 each. GMG takes the deal and ends up with $40 profit each (vs $18) and it's pretty easy to see how this would be an easy business decision for them.

However, the publisher just made $32 less per sale, giving them a huge incentive to want to try to clamp down on this sort of behavior in the future by using region locking or other DRM that's, generally speaking, unfriendly to consumers.

So while I think I understand the scope of what's happening here - the more that sites continue to operate like CDKeys and now GreenManGaming become popular, the more likely it is we'll see further and further regional restrictions and DRM put in place to curb this behavior. We saw it happen on the Steam store directly, and I think it's only a matter of time before it happens on the "key redemption" side as well.

You said you're a lawyer, right? I'm sure you can distinguish between calling yourself an authorized seller and selling a product you buy from third parties.



The issue here seems to be what's recognized as a "legitimate" key and what's not. There are a number of potential scenarios here with various levels of legitimacy:

1) Keys straight from publisher in region (ex. EA keys from Origin, Ubisoft keys from UPlay, indie devs giving away keys or selling on their own, etc.). 100% genuine article, no questions of legitimacy.

2) Reseller getting keys straight from publisher in region. This covers places like Steam and Humble Bundle, Origin and UPlay for third-party publishers, and so on. We assumed until now that this also covered Green Man Gaming. It probably still does for most of their games (WB Support has both confirmed and denied this is the case in separate conversations, for example). Essentially the same thing as #1 but with a middleman.

3) Reseller getting keys from authorized key distributors in region. One example of this happening is places like Costco selling PC game keys through a distributor, Codes2Go. Ubisoft lists Solutions2Go as an authorized distributor to Costco and Walmart, so I assume Codes2Go is owned/operated by Solutions2Go (though oddly I can't find mention of Codes2Go on the site). Essentially the same as #1 but with more middlemen than #2. It's unclear if GMG fits into this category or not for the Activision and Ubisoft cases. It's also unclear as to who qualifies as an authorized distributor or not. As an example, Staples in Canada also sells PC games via codes distributed by Codes2Go, but they're not on Ubisoft's list of authorized dealers.

4) Reseller getting keys from authorized key distributors, but out of region. This is the scenario others in this thread assume is happening, which would explain the pre-order discounts GMG is able to offer on big games. (Pre-order discounts shouldn't be assumed to be a smoking gun, however, or else Amazon and Best Buy in Canada would also be suspect due to their E3 promotions.) This is legally murky, as you'd expect from the practice's more common name, "grey market." Certain publishers on Steam have begun locking their keys to specific regions to enforce regional pricing.

5) Reseller getting keys from authorized retail sellers in the form of physical games. There was another key reseller who said they were essentially buying up pallets of physical games and cracking open the cases to pull the keys. (I don't recall if they also destroyed the discs afterwards.) GMG hasn't said anything about this being their source, but it would fit the language of buying from "authorized resellers." There's an additional wrinkle here in that the physical games may or may not be from the same region.

6) Reseller getting keys from unauthorized key distributors. What even counts as an "unauthorized key distributor?" Who knows? One potential example, though, would be keys given away in bundles and other promotions that are not intended for resale--i.e. Nvidia/AMD graphics card bundles. Hard to say what the law says about this kind of resale. Another example is individuals buying up Humble Bundles and selling individual keys at a markup. Polygon has discussed this practice in the past, and many assume this is where many G2A keys come from.

7) Other nefarious plots. Purchases on stolen credit cards have already been mentioned. There may be other examples but I'm not creative enough to come up with them.

8) Other not-so-nefarious plots?

The issue here is that beyond "publishers work directly with these stores," we don't really have any idea of what constitutes a legal sale of a game key. Since the only likely enforcement of any authorized resale regime will come from publishers themselves, and because there's a wide chasm between what they say (only buy from these stores) and what they do (many keys outside that ecosystem work, but many do not), it's hard to know what to do. It feels like for now, what determines legitimacy is as much up to the individual as anyone else.

This is a good post, thanks.

Also would be nice if a mod could edit the title to update based on new information
 
If anything, that reddit thread group have a nice list of companies not to buy from.
Showing your contracts to a reddit mod, YEAH those companies I will trust. NOT.

And a certain software just went bye bye.

"Just show us your most-likely-confidential distribution contracts so we can post your deals on our subreddit."

Sounds super above board /s
Jesus fucking christ guys, I know you are super eager to defend Greenmanganing, but dont fucking trip on yourselves. You guys do realize that the other stores aren't showing distribution contracts, right ? Gamedeals asked for it to GMG because its factual that GMG ain't authorised resellers for a number of titles. They are not asking everyone to provide their contracts, for fucks sake.
Gamedeals advertise deals, and they choose to keep unauthorised resellers out of it. This is true for several deal tracking services. If there's a huge pile of evidence you aren't a authorised reseller of something, GMG needs to prove they are with actual evidence.
 
No it isn't. They specifically said in their statement that they bought from third party sellers authorized by the publishers. If a publisher authorized someone to sell Black Ops 3 to whoever, and GMG bought them, how does that make them an "unauthorised reseller?"
They are getting them from a third party seller. They do not have any deal or communication with the publishers. This is the exact definition of unauthorised.
 
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