GreenManGaming selling unauthorized Ubi/Acti/WB keys
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
Isendurl
Banned
GatticusFinch
Member
No, you're moving the goal posts. Your OP was all doom and gloom "WHERE DID THEY GET THESE KEYS" and now it's "they said they were authorized, but they weren't, maybe, but I have no proof and one of the three pieces of lousy evidence I had was refuted," which is meaningless even if true.
And spare me the entire false advertising thing. I'm an attorney. There have been no damages here--the goods are as they were sold. If you ultimately got a key that worked, you got the benefit of your bargain.
It's 60 here.Are you sure bro?
It was never that price.
LurkerPrime
Member
Are you sure bro?
Reality only gets in the way.
FailedNinjaEdit: On second thought, it's probably GOG's fair pricing thing, where they adjust the prices regionally. Canada's pricing is $47 USD, which works out to about $62 CDN.
Edit2: Nevermind. Their fair pricing thing says this:
so I dunno anymore.
GatticusFinch
Member
Are you sure bro?
Positive. I'm looking at it right now from the U.S. $59.99, $124.95 for the series.
Well, the story has developed since I made the OP
As for the damages, we have seen cases where unauthorized keys have been revoked by the publisher, so there is a risk of it happening. Some people don't want to take on that risk, so they buy from authorized sources. Some people don't think it's a significant risk, and they buy from wherever. It's about being an informed consumer.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Ok, this is getting f*cking ridiculous now.
Ignoring the usual shite of "boohoo, those poor publishers whatever shall they do, how dare consumers act in their own self interest" the first one is legal, the second is much more dubious hence the debate.
GatticusFinch
Member
I was going to bring this up, because it's an interesting question in general on this topic and it does seem like there's some overlap. Generally speaking, not as applied to any specific group here. The "authorized" thing is merely a manufacturer's construct and being "unauthorized" is more like a reseller buying an item(or code in this case) second hand. It's still a legit code, just not from an "approved" source. What does that mean really? Isn't it just arbitrary by the pub? It's like pubs saying we don't want you to sell these because you won't sell them based on our terms or pricing agreements. Why do they have to agree to that if they got them legit, such as by buying retail versions in bulk, they can't resell the codes? Yeah, the pub might not like that and may not want to work directly as a result, but is it really "shady"?
If obtained legally, don't they have a right to say to resell them, similar to used games? If you buy a guitar hero bundle for example, chances are the game disc says "not for resale" meaning the pub does not want you to sell it, but is it "shady" if you put it up on Craigslist, ebay, or trade it in to Gamestop? Similarly, isn't it like someone reselling nvdidia pack-in codes just on a larger scale? Those probably say not for resale, and the hardware purchase is not really an authorized re seller.
Obviously misrepresenting the source of your item as something it is not is bad, which is a separate point of discussion. It seems like these two topics seemed to keep gettting jumbled up in this discussion.
I am going to wait for this to develop. I went to bat for GMG during the Witcher 3 incident and I don't really care about the whole authorized/unauthorized stuff(assuming the keys weren't stolen or obtained fraudulently), but if GMG is selling grey market keys and claiming otherwise that annoys me. I would like to know what risks I might be taking before I buy something.
Sure does, doesn't it?
60€ does not equal $60.
GatticusFinch
Member
Don't throw around terms like "false advertising" and "damages" then making out like they committed a crime or were negligent. If you got a working key, you were undamaged. You got what you paid for. Some abstraction of future damages that may never occur does not create liability.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
In Canada
I repeat, it's 60 here. Same price of Steam. Can't get a screen now but the price is that one for me.
Mithos
Member
GatticusFinch
Member
You're confusing me with someone else. I said the game was $60 in the United States and it is.
No one is talking about liability here. We are talking about dishonesty. You're making this way more pedantic than it needs to be. Apologies for saying "false advertising", ok? I only meant "dishonesty". Sorry for not speaking in proper legalese.
GatticusFinch
Member
Has nothing to do with being pedantic. You were using legal words implying legal liability when there was none. This started out as some pseudo-criminal "false advertising" campaign and now currently stands at "being an informed consumer."
Like I said pages ago, this is the same Reddit that drove someone to kill themselves by wrongly accusing them of being a terrorist. Maybe don't put so much stock in the investigative powers of a mod.
You're still stuck up on the reddit part of this for some absurd reason, yet you're choosing to ignore the other points of data people have brought up in this thread while being very particular about my phrasing. It's disingenuous to derail the argument with specifics about my verbiage and make it seem like that's the only thing going on here.
GatticusFinch
Member
I know. That's precisely my point. The reason they froze out GMG was to keep the GoG store relevant even at high prices.
I don't think you can buy an "authorized" PC download code of the game for less than $60 in the United States currently. Which is absurd at this point in the game's release. Boxed versions are somehow cheaper than GoG.
DLGamer claims to be an authorized site and they have it for $32.99 currently.
Of course, we have to take them at their words, just like we did GMG
Isthereanydeal states that Amazon had it for $43.65 at some point, and Origin, Steam, Uplay and Humble store also had it around $41.99 at some point.
GatticusFinch
Member
It's not disingenuous. You were accusing them of legal breaches that were not applicable to the situation. That's important.
What other "points of data?" I haven't seen any. All I've seen is hearsay and conjecture. The only hard evidence provided is 3 emails, one of which was recanted and one of which is highly suspect.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Feels like it's pretty simple at this point:
Don't trust a reddit mod farther than you can throw them.
If you've had good experience with a retailer, there's no reason to assume the worst of them without solid, reputable evidence of wrong doing.
And if GMG is indeed selling "grey market" keys which they cannot guarantee, they absolutely should alter their TOS, advertising, and so on to reflect that fact.
Whether or not you as a consumer are okay with buying grey market keys is largely irrelevant, other than (IMO) it being totally reasonable to be upset if the product you bought is not what you were told it was.
Don't trust a reddit mod farther than you can throw them.
If you've had good experience with a retailer, there's no reason to assume the worst of them without solid, reputable evidence of wrong doing.
And if GMG is indeed selling "grey market" keys which they cannot guarantee, they absolutely should alter their TOS, advertising, and so on to reflect that fact.
Whether or not you as a consumer are okay with buying grey market keys is largely irrelevant, other than (IMO) it being totally reasonable to be upset if the product you bought is not what you were told it was.
GatticusFinch
Member
Well, look at that "highly suspicious" BLOPS 3 price on DLGamer. Better get /r/GameDeals to start an investigation. Those prices are "too good to be true!"
Hard evidence:
1- GMG do not list Activision as one of their partnered publishers, yet sell keys from them. This is not disputable.
2- GMG sold The Witcher 3 keys and are selling keys to its expansion currently despite not being authorized by CDPR. They themselves admitted to obtaining the keys from other sources. This is not disputable.
Semi-hard evidence:
3- The ubisoft authorized reseller list does not list GMG despite listing several other significantly smaller resellers. There could be an error with this listing, but it does raise questions.
Concerning questions:
4- GMG have refused all attempts to contact them on this issue and refused to provide any clarification, and except for WB, have not explicitly stated that they are authorized resellers for these developers when questioned.
5- There have been issues with BLOPS3 keys that raised questions about their source.
6- There are issues with Battlefront keys, which raises questions. The same situation happened with The Witcher 3.
Despite points 1 and 2, their website states that they are an authorized vendor for ALL games they sell, which is flat out untrue. They have also not provided convincing answers to the questions raised by points 3-6.
DLGamer have been vetted by the sub via providing documentation of their legitimacy and have been vetted by Deep Silver, apparently https://www.reddit.com/r/GameDealsMeta/comments/2n0yjx/is_dlgamer_a_good_place_to_buy/cm9s9j5
They're also on Ubisoft's list of approved vendors, where GMG isn't. https://support.ubi.com/en-US/faq/9/3888/approved-retail-vendor-list/kA030000000ekN9CAI
They should make an offline mode...
crazyrabbits
Banned
That's the problem. They've had months to address the issue, but have instead sat on their hands and adopted a "woe is me" stance. They've had ample chances (and been asked multiple times) by the mods to provide even one redacted picture of a contract, but have avoided responding entirely.
If I bought a BO3 key and got a version of the game that didn't have the pre-order DLC while someone else who bought it from the same site did, I'd be pissed. Just because WB has clarified their stance, doesn't mean GMG is in the clear. It's false equivalence.
So they're basically confirming some of their keys aren't directly from publishers and are saying "it's ok, it's authorized if it unlocks"
edit: authentic not authorized - point is they're not an authorized retailer for certain pubs even though the keys are allegedly authentic
Vincent Grayson
Member
Who would have known that even gaming would want ethically-sourced, freerange products?
So G2A and Kinguin are A-OK as long as you are buying from a marketplace seller and not directly from the parent company?
LurkerPrime
Member
In their response, it's sorta weird how they say "subjective or inaccurate," rather than just labelling the entire thing as both.
GMG's place as one of the few "legitimate" key sites is what puts them ahead of the crowd, and I'd reckon it's why they've gotten so big. If they give that up, what do they have over the legion of other grey market key resellers?
GMG's marketing is done purely through trust and faith, and they're unwilling to give it up.
GMG's place as one of the few "legitimate" key sites is what puts them ahead of the crowd, and I'd reckon it's why they've gotten so big. If they give that up, what do they have over the legion of other grey market key resellers?
GMG's marketing is done purely through trust and faith, and they're unwilling to give it up.
Isendurl
Banned
This is still not entirely true, while pricing on GOG in US is weird you still could get 20% discount on Witcher 3 there, if you owned Witcher 1 and 2 (and they were giving those for free before launch).
As far as I know GOG always had the best price for Witcher 3.
GatticusFinch
Member
So, you're basically so biased at this point that you would misquote the statement?
He specifically said that all their keys are either directly from the publisher or through authorized third parties of the publisher, with the revenue going back to the publisher. Now you're just calling him a liar.
To my knowledge there is no way to distinguish between marketplace keys and G2A keys, and I don't think G2A is considered an authorized retailer for anyone.
You're right, I confused "authorized" and "authentic". The keys are authentic, but that still doesn't mean GMG are the authorized retailer in this situation, there is a third party in between.
They still do not make this distinction clear on their site and there is a lack of transparency in where they get their keys.
crazyrabbits
Banned
That's not what this discussion is about at all. If you're a website that's holding out the claim that you're authorized to sell each and every key that comes through your store, and then it turns out that more than one publisher reveals that you're bullshitting and not authorized by them (not to mention the refusal to get yourself vetted by a subreddit that serves over 300,000 people), that's a problem.
Even so, I feel that trust has eroded over the last few months.
GatticusFinch
Member
What he said is that for some games they are an authorized original retailer and for others they buy keys from third parties authorized by the publisher.
Why do you care if they come from a third party if the third party is authorized by the publisher to sell the keys to GMG? Makes literally no sense. If the publisher tells the third party to sell the keys and GMG buys them, how is that "grey market?"
Also worth noting is that keys bought with stolen cards will still activate - only to be rescinded later, so their technical distinction of "If a key unlocks, it is an authentic key." is not necessarily true. They are putting the onus on the companies they buy from and expecting consumers to trust that GMG will buy from a legit source, without notifying the customer when the key bought is directly from publisher to GMG or from a third party.
Because I personally do not trust GMG's claim that the vendors they buy from are 100% legit. After having been lied to by GMG on TW3, I do not trust them to tell me the truth as a consumer, and their constant "too good to be true" prices give me pause. Since they're unwilling to disclose the sources for their keys and are not going to tell consumers when a key is from a pub or a third party, I am unwilling to give them my business because they have lied before and could be lying again.
Because I personally do not trust GMG's claim that the vendors they buy from are 100% legit. After having been lied to by GMG on TW3, I do not trust them to tell me the truth as a consumer, and their constant "too good to be true" prices give me pause. Since they're unwilling to disclose the sources for their keys and are not going to tell consumers when a key is from a pub or a third party, I am unwilling to give them my business because they have lied before and could be lying again.
GatticusFinch
Member
Wait. Hold the fuck up. Where is there any evidence whatsoever or even an accusation that GMG is buying keys bought with stolen credit cards? The statement they just put out specifically states they are not buying keys from anyone but the original publisher or a third party authorized to sell keys by the publisher.
You're just out for blood now. So, again, which /r/GameDeals mod are you?
I never claimed they are buying with stolen cards. I said that the statement that only legit keys will unlock is untrue. They can not hide behind that statement as a shield.
Your personal attacks are amusing though. You were calling me out on specific language before, maybe you should have read my post more clearly this time.
crazyrabbits
Banned
Because the publisher may not have authorized that "middle-man" to sell to GMG in the first place.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=185678720#post185678720
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
So they basically grab the keys from wherever they find them.
Too bad there isn't a scanner for keys to prove their authenticity.
I don't understand how Steam produces the keys. Are they all sent out via email? Doesn't Steam need to authenticate the codes before they're shipped?
I don't know how all that works and it would be interesting to see how it does too.
Too bad there isn't a scanner for keys to prove their authenticity.
I don't understand how Steam produces the keys. Are they all sent out via email? Doesn't Steam need to authenticate the codes before they're shipped?
I don't know how all that works and it would be interesting to see how it does too.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
GatticusFinch
Member
The statement they put out says they only buy from publisher-authorized middle men. This has just reached the point of people just calling him a liar that cannot be trusted with no evidence.
Sorry, I'm taking his word for it over the word of some anonymous Reddit mod until there is actual proof.