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GTA3:SA morality question?
- Thread starter jetjevons
- Start date
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
So the mob is better than street gangs? What's the damn difference? It all aesthetics from our perspective, how the dude giving you the mission talks when he gives it to you.TeTr1C said:
All the GTA games have had the mobs and street gangs in them to some degree, and seeing as one of the splash screens in SA features a decidedly asian guy, looking opulent, yet untrustworthy, I bet that the more organized forms of crime will come back once you've made it out of Los Santos.
I mean, on the back of the box it shows CJ looking very Puffy Combs, strolling away from a private jet. I'd wager he's up to something bigger than picking up a forty.
DarienA said:
Amen.
Why is THIS one getting the heat, just for expanding on the same type of gameplay the franchise is known for?
"This one hits close to home", how?
I think this thread is dangerously close to slipping into the same "Thug life offends my sensibilities more than the Mafia" bullshit when San Andreas was first revealed. Damn, that got ugly.
It's fun watching all the self righteous morality police pick apart a game they haven't even played. You guys are just as bad as the censorship crew in congress and you call yourself video game fans. Fine you don't like GTA, then dont play it. If you don't like horror movies, do you watch them? Do you talk about how they shouldn't be made? If you don't like gangsta rap / heavy metal, do you talk about how they shouldnt be made? Ban the albums from stores? You think video games influence people more than pop-culture TV or music? You've gotta be shitting me.
GTA isn't going to spear head a violent revolution in gaming... This sounds like what old congress men were saying about Mortal Kombat....how it was the end of morality as we know it because you can kill a women (Sonya). OH NO! GTA probably will cause some game companies to dabble with extreme violence but they will fail (and HAVE FAILED ALREADY) miserably. Postal 2 anyone? BMXXX (for nudity) anyone?
GTA isn't going to spear head a violent revolution in gaming... This sounds like what old congress men were saying about Mortal Kombat....how it was the end of morality as we know it because you can kill a women (Sonya). OH NO! GTA probably will cause some game companies to dabble with extreme violence but they will fail (and HAVE FAILED ALREADY) miserably. Postal 2 anyone? BMXXX (for nudity) anyone?
SolidSnakex
Member
Razoric said:
I think the effect GTASA has on the industry will be much more positive than negative. Mainly companies finnaly realising how to work with open ended gaming.
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
I'll say this, at least non-gamers could be in the same room with a copy of GTA:III being played. Why, I even let my young nephews attempt to drive the taxis around. (They didn't seem to notice the red streaks under the tires)
However in SA, guys on the street are constantly calling for somebody to suck their dick. Prositutes are talking about horny guys and their backdoor. And the word fuck gets thrown around so much it pales Kingpin.
If you are playing GTA:SA, and your mom or somebody walks into the room, you just have to pause or mute it. Anybody who has a beef against videogames if just going to love this one.
However in SA, guys on the street are constantly calling for somebody to suck their dick. Prositutes are talking about horny guys and their backdoor. And the word fuck gets thrown around so much it pales Kingpin.
If you are playing GTA:SA, and your mom or somebody walks into the room, you just have to pause or mute it. Anybody who has a beef against videogames if just going to love this one.
TeTr1C said:
Why? Because US media has glamorized the mob so much that you think it's cooler to be involved with the mob than with a street-level gang?
The game is rated M for a reason. Deal with it.ArcadeStickMonk said:
I swear people bitch about M rated videogames... then go watch R and PG-13 rated movies... it's hilarious....
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
I'm dealing with it quite well. Do you think I headed down to the EB at 6pm last night unaware of what I was picking up?DarienA said:
My anecdote was a mere observation, that they took the mature elements that have always been in GTA and have really brought them into your face, all the time.
This doesn't bother me one bit, but could maybe serve as a heads-up to anyone who boots it up for the first time with a grandparent in the room.
*nods head* Not to mention we could probably start to bring the metric ton of games that have been produced to re-enact scenarios from the various wars of the 20th century into this, if we're genuinely concerned about all videogame violence that hits close to home...Goreomedy said:
Son of Godzilla
Banned
I wasn't around for the first omg wtf discussion, but I would say that the mafia has taken on an almost romantic and fantastical role in society whereas "thug life" or whatever IS a bit closer to reality, or at least a bit more prevalent in reality. Same goes for WWII. There's a disconnection because it's history.
Hell, I even said something to the effect that for the GTA release party my local EB merely dressed up the same way most of it's customers do. Granted I'm not exactly sure that doesn't point to thug life being just as romantacized as the mafia, but it's certainly more prevalent.
Oh and DaMan the entire selling point of GTA is it's open ended gameplay. The whole go do whatever you want thing. I'd argue that all videogames, especially the open ended type, invite a form of identification with the character. Hell, in a good game people don't even notice the controls and people complain when controls become to cumbersome. Just because it doesn't physically force you to go through the motions doesn't mean it's not realistic.
Hell, I even said something to the effect that for the GTA release party my local EB merely dressed up the same way most of it's customers do. Granted I'm not exactly sure that doesn't point to thug life being just as romantacized as the mafia, but it's certainly more prevalent.
Oh and DaMan the entire selling point of GTA is it's open ended gameplay. The whole go do whatever you want thing. I'd argue that all videogames, especially the open ended type, invite a form of identification with the character. Hell, in a good game people don't even notice the controls and people complain when controls become to cumbersome. Just because it doesn't physically force you to go through the motions doesn't mean it's not realistic.
SolidSnakex
Member
Son of Godzilla said:
The differences between a mob and a gang aren't that drastic. Someone could get the idea about gang banging as easily from GTA3 as they could with SA.
Person A: "Perhaps this game glorifies violence a bit too much?"
Person B: "SHUT YOUR ()*&@(#& MOUTH! It's rated M! Games don't make people violent, d00d. It's FANTASY!"
I suppose it's unrealistic of me to suggest that there's some sort of "middle ground" between these two points?
Person B: "SHUT YOUR ()*&@(#& MOUTH! It's rated M! Games don't make people violent, d00d. It's FANTASY!"
I suppose it's unrealistic of me to suggest that there's some sort of "middle ground" between these two points?
I didn't just refer to WWII - we have plenty of games that model the last century worth of warfare scenarios, including very contemporary ones. There shouldn't be a disconnect here - there are plenty of military actions going on around the world as we speak. It's no less "real" than "thug life" is for most of the world.Son of Godzilla said:
The real problem here, IMO, is the attempt to distinguish one form of violence as more deserving of some sort of special attention.
I saw this thread last night, but decided to wait a few hours and calm down before posting.
The idea that somehow
- Mafia related violence is acceptable
- ghetto related violence is not
would be utterly laughable if it wasn't so transparent in its hypocrisy.
Guess what, folks?
The Mafia has been involved in prostitution, smuggling, drugs, murder, assault, bribery, extortion, rape, and influence peddling, among other infractions, for years - and they're still doing it today. Just because it isn't as in-your-face as a ghetto gangbanger shooting up the block doesn't mean that it should receive a free pass. RICO and the demise of the laws of omerta have done their damage, but Mafia is just as vicious as they've always been. But since movies like The Godfather have romanticized the Mafia in society's eyes, Fido and Tommy Vercetti can be viewed through sepia-toned glasses while CJ gets hand-wringing and complaints about how the series has gone down the tubes.
As far as I'm concerned - and this also applies directly to the inevitable backlash from so-called black "leaders" who are going to jump on the opportunity for some camera time - this treatment of San Andreas' subject matter stinks. It's a blatant double standard. And frankly, as someone who didn't have any problem delivering vanloads of hoes to the Policeman's Ball in Liberty City, I fail to see how that's ANY different from CJ's antics in San Andreas.
Besides the colour of his skin.
The idea that somehow
- Mafia related violence is acceptable
- ghetto related violence is not
would be utterly laughable if it wasn't so transparent in its hypocrisy.
Guess what, folks?
The Mafia has been involved in prostitution, smuggling, drugs, murder, assault, bribery, extortion, rape, and influence peddling, among other infractions, for years - and they're still doing it today. Just because it isn't as in-your-face as a ghetto gangbanger shooting up the block doesn't mean that it should receive a free pass. RICO and the demise of the laws of omerta have done their damage, but Mafia is just as vicious as they've always been. But since movies like The Godfather have romanticized the Mafia in society's eyes, Fido and Tommy Vercetti can be viewed through sepia-toned glasses while CJ gets hand-wringing and complaints about how the series has gone down the tubes.
As far as I'm concerned - and this also applies directly to the inevitable backlash from so-called black "leaders" who are going to jump on the opportunity for some camera time - this treatment of San Andreas' subject matter stinks. It's a blatant double standard. And frankly, as someone who didn't have any problem delivering vanloads of hoes to the Policeman's Ball in Liberty City, I fail to see how that's ANY different from CJ's antics in San Andreas.
Besides the colour of his skin.
My original point wasn't that I'm appalled by GTA:SA, or that I'm not going to play it. I agree game makers shouldn't be censored (within reason). If the GTA series just existed and was just this cool little franchise that explored the darker side of humanity, like say Hitman, then I really wouldn't have that big an issue with it.
I guess what freaks me out a little is that GTA is essentially THE MOST POPULAR CURRENT GEN GAME SERIES OF THE PAST DECADE. It's not a curiousity. Everbody, EVERYBODY wants to play GTA:SA. Now how much of that desire stems from the fact that it's the ultimate sand box title and how much stems from the fact that, at the end of the day, gaming is STILL a very juvenile past time and most gamers are attracted by the promise of violence and depravity. I'm not even sure. But Rockstar have caught lightening in a bottle with the GTA series, and for better or for worse, the poster child for our industry features a semi-realisitic world with a morally bankrupt story.
One disturbing trend I've noticed so far in GTA:SA: they really try to pump you up for the missions in the cut-scenes. Your homies are all, 'lets go take care of these fools, dog' and CJ is all ''fuck yeah man! Lets do this!' There is no sense of regret, or the feeling you're backed into a corner or fighting for survival. This is not Boyz N Da Hood or Menace 2 Society. This is out and out glorification of the lifestyle.
I guess what freaks me out a little is that GTA is essentially THE MOST POPULAR CURRENT GEN GAME SERIES OF THE PAST DECADE. It's not a curiousity. Everbody, EVERYBODY wants to play GTA:SA. Now how much of that desire stems from the fact that it's the ultimate sand box title and how much stems from the fact that, at the end of the day, gaming is STILL a very juvenile past time and most gamers are attracted by the promise of violence and depravity. I'm not even sure. But Rockstar have caught lightening in a bottle with the GTA series, and for better or for worse, the poster child for our industry features a semi-realisitic world with a morally bankrupt story.
One disturbing trend I've noticed so far in GTA:SA: they really try to pump you up for the missions in the cut-scenes. Your homies are all, 'lets go take care of these fools, dog' and CJ is all ''fuck yeah man! Lets do this!' There is no sense of regret, or the feeling you're backed into a corner or fighting for survival. This is not Boyz N Da Hood or Menace 2 Society. This is out and out glorification of the lifestyle.
But if it was out and out glorification of the mob lifestyle as in previous games you'd be ok with it right?jetjevons said:
I've got a few steps for you:
1. Please stop.
2. Please Check yourself.
Repeat.
Without even knowing it you've fallen for what's already been posted... mob violence is cool...gang violence isn't.
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
teeny-tiny, kinda spoilerjetjevons said:
CJ and Ryder smash up a crack house to get the drugs out of the Grove
Does that count for nothing?
jetjevons said:
Boo Hoo.
You know I'm pissed that NFSU sold 7 mil worldwide.. it's a disgrace that illegal fast-driving, garish-looking, rice-rockets are so popular....
Yes that was sarcasm.
There is so much more in terms of what you can do in the GTA environments than the storyline that I just don't get your beef... I mean I understand it, but as an adult I just don't feel the same way.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
DarienA said:
Gang violence = the kiddie, mob = mature.
My entire point is that gang violence is alot more prevalant in the real world than mob violence is and that because gang violence hasn't been romanticized nearly as much seeing it in a videogame, even if it's blown into cartoonish absurdity or included in some sort of fantasy environment, makes it hit alot closer to home tha mob violence.
And as far as the war vs crime violence thing, war as a whole is seen as pretty legitimate whereas crime, especially the random/heinous crimes capable of being committed in GTA, isn't.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
kaching said:
Try Maxwell Maltz and his book on Psychocybernetics. It's actually a book on self esteem psychology, but goes into depth about the brain's goal-setting mechanism.
SolidSnakex
Member
Gek54 said:
They're more organized than a typical gang but they'll do the same thing. They'll both kill your family to get to you. Does it really make any difference that one is more respected than the other if that happens?
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Seen as legitimate vs being legitimate.
Gek54 said:
Actually I didn't cry race anywhere dammit. Learn how to read. If anything I'm trying to point out the idiocy of respecting one form organized crime which has been glamorized by the media over another form of crime.
Any hey gang's have been glamorized... haven't you bitches seen New Jack City or Sugar Hill?
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Eh that was just a knee jerk reaction before I ran off. I meant me saying that war is seen as legitimate vs you saying that it is or isn't. Not that *insert whatever* is legitimate.
DarienA said:
In one.
Like I say, by the way, what makes me uncomfortable about San Andreas isn't necessarily the type of crime on offer as the setting that hosts it. GTA3 and Vice City both didn't feel "too real for comfort" the way that some of San Andreas does. It's like DMA's too skilled at building a world for their own good, at least as far as my experience goes.
DFS.
levious said:
GTA3 is a sort of bland amalgam of different places and ideas -- an unidentifiable setting. Vice City, meanwhile, is a caricature of the '80s -- an exaggerated, over-the-top setting. San Andreas, like I say, feels very realistic and specific. It's not as much of a parody of a time and place as Vice City, I suppose in large part because the early '90s just aren't distinctive enough to caricature. So yeah, I guess the answer is yes.
DFS.