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Guardians of Middle-Earth |OT| One Sauron to Feed Them All (Console DOTA game)
- Thread starter Card Boy
- Start date
http://www.giantbomb.com/news/layoffs-confirmed-at-warner-bros-seattle-studios/4298/
Maybe you're thinking of Snowblind Studios that was absorbed into Monolith?
Alboreo
Member
This is true.
Maybe you're right. Though I could have sworn George Broussard had a tweet about this and Element was in the thread knocking back a cold one and reminiscing about the good times.
BrokenSymmetry
Member
This game's networking is completely broken. I haven't been able to get into a single match. Checked my NAT is open, restarted and redownloaded the game Still the matchmaking timer keeps running (left it open until 30 minutes) without ever giving me a match.
Which version? I've tried the PS3 demo and after a couple of minutes in matchmaking it creates a room for you and dumps you in with the AI if it can't find anyone else. Other people can join and replace the AI while you're in the lobby and midgame.
I really wish this game had gone with a F2P model though or a day 1 version on PC. I can easily see this just dying out on consoles.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Yea, it was the exact same thing with Gotham City Impostors. Seriously, if you can't find a match in 2 or 3 minutes, back out and start searching again.
I'm sure a port will come out early next year. They do it all the time for these Arcade/PSN games.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
If anyone's interested we (COIN-OP.TV) put up some commentary videos. Check them out.
Guardians of Middle-earth GOLLUM Gameplay Commentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jTyn_nb6uo
Guardians of Middle-earth BEST CLASS Gameplay Commentary Tips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4_Ke5qayCI
Guardians of Middle-earth GOLLUM Gameplay Commentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jTyn_nb6uo
Guardians of Middle-earth BEST CLASS Gameplay Commentary Tips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4_Ke5qayCI
I really wanted this game to do well. Just under 2200 (as of this post) on the leader-boards is embarrassing. I know i was the one hyping this up but i can't buy a game with no community. I don't want to play games with 1 o 2 people and the rest with bots, plus i live in a minority gaming country (Australia) so its even worse for me.
Personally the Season pass destroyed my interest and judging from the responses in this thread and the dismal sales i would guess it had the same effect for other people. Coupled with the lag, the initial 1200 price coupled with long matchmaking times yeah I can why its not doing well.
I just don't understand why they couldn't charge 800 points for the base game and only charge for unlocking heroes earlier and for skins, It's really a no-brainer. You would think after Gotham City Imposters bombing they would of learned.
Just copy the Awesomenauts model in future of free Awesomenauts, charging for skins and keeping the base game at a reasonable price. That game has about 300000 on the PC leaderboards. Hell even that game had 80K on the PSN leaderboards after acouple weeks.
Personally the Season pass destroyed my interest and judging from the responses in this thread and the dismal sales i would guess it had the same effect for other people. Coupled with the lag, the initial 1200 price coupled with long matchmaking times yeah I can why its not doing well.
I just don't understand why they couldn't charge 800 points for the base game and only charge for unlocking heroes earlier and for skins, It's really a no-brainer. You would think after Gotham City Imposters bombing they would of learned.
Just copy the Awesomenauts model in future of free Awesomenauts, charging for skins and keeping the base game at a reasonable price. That game has about 300000 on the PC leaderboards. Hell even that game had 80K on the PSN leaderboards after acouple weeks.
AngryPyros
Member
The reviews were decent so I gave this a try, but now I really wish I had read the responses in this thread first -- the multiplayer code is unbearably bad. I've tried to play for several hours over the past day, and have managed to enter a grand total of 4 matches. All of them had AI slots since there were not enough players, one dropped, and another was extremely laggy, blamed the AI player for the lag, then disconnected. I've spent about 45 minutes in the game, and at least 2 hours on the matchmaking screen.
LoL is the answer to the first question.
So there are no items? Everything comes down to champion select, the player skill, and what I'm guessing is the equivalent of LoL runes?
Iced_Eagle
Member
Played this game yesterday and it's AWESOME. I really hope WB keeps up the advertising and works to build the community. It's a very well done console ARTS/MOBA game, and there needs to be more like this.
The lag and matchmaking system are just terrible though. Really unfortunate that the game came out like this, but I'm hoping a patch is already in the works. A bit disappointing that the game uses P2P instead of dedicated servers, on top of the fact that you can't reconnect into a match and if the host drops, the game is done.
Yes. There are shrines that your team can capture, as well as killing some of the mega creeps in the jungle gives your team buffs. Also by changing which gems you have equipped can change how your heroes perform slightly (better MS, damage, etc).
You can play against bots. I'm not sure if there's any difficulty setting. When I played, I fairly easily stomped them, so I doubt you'd want to do this for very long. As with most ARTS games, this is best when played with other humans so you can strategize.
The lag and matchmaking system are just terrible though. Really unfortunate that the game came out like this, but I'm hoping a patch is already in the works. A bit disappointing that the game uses P2P instead of dedicated servers, on top of the fact that you can't reconnect into a match and if the host drops, the game is done.
Yes. There are shrines that your team can capture, as well as killing some of the mega creeps in the jungle gives your team buffs. Also by changing which gems you have equipped can change how your heroes perform slightly (better MS, damage, etc).
You can play against bots. I'm not sure if there's any difficulty setting. When I played, I fairly easily stomped them, so I doubt you'd want to do this for very long. As with most ARTS games, this is best when played with other humans so you can strategize.
AngryPyros
Member
Heart Attack
Member
hahahaha. This game will go the F2P route like Gotham City Impostors.
Each bot has a difficulty setting you can adjust.
Yeah I'm expecting them to go that route as well.
AngryPyros
Member
It gets even worse. Sometimes the host's connection is awful, and the lobby gets stuck during countdown, and the game never starts. But if you try to leave, it penalizes you from leaving a match countdown in progress, and you're temporarily banned from matchmaking.
What an interesting way to lower the learning curve.
The more I play, the less of a problem it seems. Specifically these reasons:
- Your 22 champions basically seem to be like 11 overall characters, with shifts for a "good" version, and an "evil" version. So it's something more like 11 "characters", with different skins, voices, and effects between each one.
- Since you can't change builds and stuff once starting, it's basically "team" vs "team" and not a character vs character balancing base. Each character has to be unique per team, too, and it's blind selection VS the opponents, so this just... isn't a counterpick game. You pick a strategy from the get go, and then stick with it.
Personal opinion, but I always hate "counterpick" in games; It's basically an admittance of "The characters are not as well balanced VS each other as they should be, pick a more advantageous matchup". Thing I love about KoF XIII: the game has "tight" tiers, and since each player picks 3 characters, and the characters are well rounded, a full match is decided less by pure matchup / counterpicks, and more by meter management, player skill, and patience / ability.
One of my favotire things in fighters is seeing someone who knows their character's tools so well, that they even-out a matchup. I strongly prefer "player VS player" rather than "character VS character", and this game's basic structure (3 lane, generally splitting characters into groups of 2 to defend each node, and one lane left to be taken by a stronger / better player) is more focused on the teamwork aspect, rather than the per-character aspect, which I think really helps give it's balance more of a chance.
We'll see though. To reference your chess example, In the end, character choice should feel like each player was given the same overall set of pieces (Pawns, kings, queens, etc), one player just decided to bring a set of glassware pieces to the table, while the other has oak pieces with an ebony finish. Game still ends up playing the same way, as the superior skill and coordination was what truly won the day.
Yeah, but it's good that there's games of all types. I never mind when a PC focused genre comes to Console, and then designs itself by what console gamers expect, rather than PC. It gives more of a reason for that particular game to exist; That brings some possible bad decisions and challenges at times, but it's better to test the waters rather than just straight copy.
I haven't noticed AI cheating in this game; they seem to play similiar to players, and if anything, they may be weaker, since they don't use bushes as often / well, and play less turtley, more offensively. Seem like a fine way to earn some gold and exp, and pass the dead air, between real player matches.
Yeah, more than 2 ways to go about it, they just happened to pick this method. But "locking content effectiveness" behind an in-game credits paywall, or a "you have to play this many hours, in order to try each of these 100 characters out in a 15+ minute match", at the end of the day, isn't that different.
If anything, this method just favors the "newbie" a bit more, because the "expert" players won't be able to rush to a specific character, and start playing them moment-1, while they spend 4 hours trying to find their character. Each person is "forced" to have some kind of "try some variety!" play, which sounds o-so-bad on paper ("why should I have to play in a way unlike what I intent?", "what right do the devs have to make me sit through this?" etc, etc), but in the end, it's just a method to level out the experinces of the playing field, and make the game less daunting to approach, for a longer period of time, than a game that tosses everything out immediately.
DoTA didn't start with 100+ characters, right? If it did, I'm sure it would have shot itself in the foot from the get-go. Players had more classes revealed to them as time went on. Not too different to what will happen here...
That's fine and all, and too bad, but.. I don't understand the season pass complaints. At the end of the day, it's a 30 dollar game if you wanna play some additional characters (And get a "bonus" survival mode).
I'd personally have been much more turned off by, say, a cost structure that only gave 3 our of 5 character class types at 800 MSP, and then forced the unlock of the 2 additional classes through a 10 dollar unlock, and then unlocked beyond those 10 initial character for an additional 10 dollars.
As it is now, you have multiple choice available for the base price, in each class, and all classes unlocked. The DLC/season pass gives you character that are still in development (assumedly), that'll have to fit into these already-established classes, for $15.
I think they could have picked a much more money-greedy method to monetizing this game than they did, and I think we're getting a pretty strong wealth of content for the prices. Truthfully, save for the PC fore-fathers out there, I see no reason why a game of this calibur and polish shouldn't / couldn't have simple been sold as a $60 full retail game, with maybe a few more stage-skins on offer. And I'm sure the in-app purchases of the PC games aim to make more money off each consumer, than what this game right here is doing so far..
Watching the GB QL, this game does seem pretty good.
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-guardians-of-middle-earth/17-6863/
Also Sauron gank and tower dive right from the start.
Is there no way to ping areas of the map?
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-guardians-of-middle-earth/17-6863/
Also Sauron gank and tower dive right from the start.
Is there no way to ping areas of the map?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Hrm. I got into a match and something happened where everyone dropped and I was left with nothing but bots. I backed out and now I'm locked out of playing for a bit. The match hadn't even started yet!
Hopefully they'll put a system in place that detects that and doesn't penalize me for backing out because I don't want to play with bots. Actually they did to a point. I got a notification that things went to hell.
Hopefully they'll put a system in place that detects that and doesn't penalize me for backing out because I don't want to play with bots. Actually they did to a point. I got a notification that things went to hell.
MonolithAndy
Monolith Productions
Yep, we're looking into it as much as possible right now. If you've got time, please pass along any feedback you've got to our handsome customer service ninjas. Information they're looking for can be found in this thread, on our forums.
Too, we've got an update coming soon. Out this weekend for PS3, out on December 14th for Xbox 360. (Soonest we could get it out, Xbox folks.) Additionally, a small hotfix hitting this weekend for all platforms that won't penalize you for quitting out of a game, at least until we're able to get matchmaking updates rolled out. It'll provide some matchmaking updates, but as always, please keep all feedback coming. The more info we've got our grippy hands on, the better!
I'm incredibly frustrated with how 1-lane play works balance-wise. There's no method of health recovery and it heavily favors tankier characters. A ganking character like Gollum cannot succeed at all in a mode like that because there are no methods for him to roam. The meta basically devolves into picking the tankiest characters and pushing forward constantly with little regard to strategy or actual defense. I hope that a future patch will address some options for the single-lane map.
I don't think the controls for this game are very good as defaulted or the alternate advanced controls. I would like a control scheme where abilties are mapped to the top bumpers and triggers with the right stick being attack in whatever direction. This would allow you to be able to hit right stick to aim the ability and trigger an ability at the same time and allow you an easier time of aiming skills shots like traps and still be able to move more quickly out of those setups and and most importantly you would still be attacking while you setup your trap. There's is zero reason for attacking and aiming to be separate buttons in this game as far as I can tell. Dual stick shooters style controls would be absolutely perfect for this game and I think it's a missed opportunity that the option doesn't exist. Then, you could easily put leveling stuff and commands on the abyx area of the control as those are lesser used abilities.
Also fuck lag issues. I had a game where someone not even the host had trouble with their connection and it made the whole game slideshow for everyone. Fuck P2P.
Also, potions being assigned out of the game so that some people have healing and some have NO ACCESS to them (based on leveling)? That's a pretty blatant balance issue relating to how leveling works in these game. Really bad decision. They should be available to all or simply not exist in this game. Commands are a similar issue.
Also fuck lag issues. I had a game where someone not even the host had trouble with their connection and it made the whole game slideshow for everyone. Fuck P2P.
Also, potions being assigned out of the game so that some people have healing and some have NO ACCESS to them (based on leveling)? That's a pretty blatant balance issue relating to how leveling works in these game. Really bad decision. They should be available to all or simply not exist in this game. Commands are a similar issue.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Edit: When I come across stuff I'll be sure and try and remember exactly what I was doing so you all can attempt to replicate.
Brill, I had a lagfest game that everyone dropped from and then got the same penalty
Looking forward to the Matchmaking fixes
For those considering buying the game, here are my notes. They may give you an idea of what the game is and has, but it's a lot of text. Still, if you are interested about the game it's worth checking out.
* The game is pretty simple, in the sense you can't build items through the match and skills are only limited by cooldown, and not mana and cooldown. This makes the matches pretty active, in the sense you will be in the battlefield far more than DotA and won't have to worry about accumulating gold for your build.
* Metagame is closer to LoL, with in-game perks (and guardians) being accessible though in-game money. The controls plays very well on the controller.
* The game supports bot play (easy and hard difficulties, both very efficient) when there aren't enough human players available at matchmaking.
* There are 5 classes in the game, each with their own role, which can be tweaked based on the runes you use (more on that later):
Tactician
Focuses on slowing down enemies and protecting your base. There are 5 gaurdians of this type right now, each with their own focus and ways to work on that, but their main role is slowing down enemy waves and take down buildings.
They have mid-to-low base attack, medium to high Ability powers and low to average HP.
Enchanter:
The mages of the game. Their focus is on damaging as many enemies and as hard as they can, which in turn makes them somewhat fragile.
They have very low basic damage and low base HP, but compensate that by having powerful Abilities that can defeat opponents easily. Most of these abilities come with long cooldowns, though there are exceptions. Additionally, many have escape/shield abilities that allow them to survive longer.
Defender:
The best support classes in the game. They are juggernauts with huge HP and abilities to either heal themselves and their allies or to inflict status in the enemies so the other classes can hit them, but they also have skills to either push or even to attack their enemies. However, they can't take on enemies on their own, so they must rely on teammates in order to finish other Guardians.
They have medium base-damage and medium to low ability cooldowns. Their HP is extremely high.
Striker:
This class is the ganker and (the closest thing to) carry of the game. Their Abilities are aimed at statusing the enemies and preventing them from escaping, and surprise them through stealth.
They have very high base damage coupled with low Ability damage and HP along with medium cooldowns.
Warrior:
Warriors are the Tanks. In a game where it's easy to get lost, Warriors work as the initiators of most fights, being capable of statusing enemies so the other classes can do their work. Coupled with their above average HP, they can take on many enemies on solo and survive to tell the story.
They have medium base attack and Ability damage, and above average HP.
On top of these classes, there are 16 commands which can be assigned to 4 different spots, all which share the same cooldown (using a Command will put all others under the command's cooldown). These Commands offer different Abilities, ranging from self-heal to AOE attacks. There are 4 ranks, each being accessed at levels 0, 4, 8 and 12.
On Character Roles:
Although each class has its own qualities, at the end of the day the particular role (and how well it can be carried) is defined by Relics and Gems. in a game without items, these artifacts work to give your character additional stats and buffs. Each character has 7 spots, each being available in-game after levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 and 14. One can decide to put:
Gems, which work under 5 types, each with varying bonuses such as attack speed, bonus HP regeneration, life steal and ability cooldown. Each Gem take one spot.
Relics are special accessories which have a passive perk (which can either be dependent or not of the Gems placed on it). Think of them as pre-defined spots that accept only X type(s) of gems, but that in turns gives you more bonuses on top of the gems. There are relics that accept 2, 3 and 4 gems, and can vary from accepting only one gem type to 4.
On top of that, there are Potions which are used in-game to grant temporary bonuses. These bonuses tend to work as efficient buffs, but have a very limited time of use and must be replenished with in-game money.
That's pretty much the core of it. The game still has some elements that are interesting (for example, as you level up in the match, you can upgrade the buildings to do X type of waves or the towers to do split damage or fire faster), but I recommend playing the game to find out.
If anyone is interested in playing with me, please drop me a PM, I have the PS3 version.
* The game is pretty simple, in the sense you can't build items through the match and skills are only limited by cooldown, and not mana and cooldown. This makes the matches pretty active, in the sense you will be in the battlefield far more than DotA and won't have to worry about accumulating gold for your build.
* Metagame is closer to LoL, with in-game perks (and guardians) being accessible though in-game money. The controls plays very well on the controller.
* The game supports bot play (easy and hard difficulties, both very efficient) when there aren't enough human players available at matchmaking.
* There are 5 classes in the game, each with their own role, which can be tweaked based on the runes you use (more on that later):
Tactician
Focuses on slowing down enemies and protecting your base. There are 5 gaurdians of this type right now, each with their own focus and ways to work on that, but their main role is slowing down enemy waves and take down buildings.
They have mid-to-low base attack, medium to high Ability powers and low to average HP.
Enchanter:
The mages of the game. Their focus is on damaging as many enemies and as hard as they can, which in turn makes them somewhat fragile.
They have very low basic damage and low base HP, but compensate that by having powerful Abilities that can defeat opponents easily. Most of these abilities come with long cooldowns, though there are exceptions. Additionally, many have escape/shield abilities that allow them to survive longer.
Defender:
The best support classes in the game. They are juggernauts with huge HP and abilities to either heal themselves and their allies or to inflict status in the enemies so the other classes can hit them, but they also have skills to either push or even to attack their enemies. However, they can't take on enemies on their own, so they must rely on teammates in order to finish other Guardians.
They have medium base-damage and medium to low ability cooldowns. Their HP is extremely high.
Striker:
This class is the ganker and (the closest thing to) carry of the game. Their Abilities are aimed at statusing the enemies and preventing them from escaping, and surprise them through stealth.
They have very high base damage coupled with low Ability damage and HP along with medium cooldowns.
Warrior:
Warriors are the Tanks. In a game where it's easy to get lost, Warriors work as the initiators of most fights, being capable of statusing enemies so the other classes can do their work. Coupled with their above average HP, they can take on many enemies on solo and survive to tell the story.
They have medium base attack and Ability damage, and above average HP.
On top of these classes, there are 16 commands which can be assigned to 4 different spots, all which share the same cooldown (using a Command will put all others under the command's cooldown). These Commands offer different Abilities, ranging from self-heal to AOE attacks. There are 4 ranks, each being accessed at levels 0, 4, 8 and 12.
On Character Roles:
Although each class has its own qualities, at the end of the day the particular role (and how well it can be carried) is defined by Relics and Gems. in a game without items, these artifacts work to give your character additional stats and buffs. Each character has 7 spots, each being available in-game after levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 and 14. One can decide to put:
Gems, which work under 5 types, each with varying bonuses such as attack speed, bonus HP regeneration, life steal and ability cooldown. Each Gem take one spot.
Relics are special accessories which have a passive perk (which can either be dependent or not of the Gems placed on it). Think of them as pre-defined spots that accept only X type(s) of gems, but that in turns gives you more bonuses on top of the gems. There are relics that accept 2, 3 and 4 gems, and can vary from accepting only one gem type to 4.
On top of that, there are Potions which are used in-game to grant temporary bonuses. These bonuses tend to work as efficient buffs, but have a very limited time of use and must be replenished with in-game money.
That's pretty much the core of it. The game still has some elements that are interesting (for example, as you level up in the match, you can upgrade the buildings to do X type of waves or the towers to do split damage or fire faster), but I recommend playing the game to find out.
If anyone is interested in playing with me, please drop me a PM, I have the PS3 version.
TriniTrin
war of titties grampa
Agreed, it's hard to get into a game. Add me if y'all have this on Xbox. GT-xr0bertpauls0nx
The more a play this game, the more I come to appreciate how ridiculous it is that they didn't put in microtransactions but they still worked their damndest to make a simulated microtransaction environment with all these out of game buffs via the belt that you buy or the guardians being locked behind an ingame currency paywall or the gold feed to buy potions.
They actually created the most microtransactiony environment I've ever played and you don't have to pay a cent after the initial purchase!
They actually created the most microtransactiony environment I've ever played and you don't have to pay a cent after the initial purchase!
This is why day 1 reviews of online-only games are a silly thing. There's no possible way to judge performance until user load scales. Here, the game's network code simply can't handle it.
http://www.gaming-age.com/2012/12/guardians-of-middle-earth-review-for-xbla-psn/Gaming-Age.com said:
http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/12/12/reviews/87763/WorthPlaying.com said:
Personally, I was completely impressed with the game design. If the netcode worked, I'd have been bugging all my friend to buy it. But when you're on a 50+Mbit synchronous connection and games are continuously lagging and have players disconnecting, it destroys the game. There's no way to have precision play when everything is stuttering like mad.
I suspect now that the game has been out for a week you'll see more reviews rolling in that reflect the broken state of online play. As a gamer and a Tolkien fan, I really do hope that Monolith and WB fix it. If it worked, I know it's a game I'd be wasting plenty of time playing.
famousmortimer
Banned
I love the absolutely bejesus out of this game. Completely addicted.
They need to sort some stuff out via patches (matchmaking, host migration, lag, etc) but man im already hooked as is.
They need to sort some stuff out via patches (matchmaking, host migration, lag, etc) but man im already hooked as is.
famousmortimer
Banned
I don't know what kind of magic they did behind the scenes but ive been getting 4v4 and 5v5 all night, with only one DC (and it wasn't me, it was a teammate). Laggy for the first min then it levels out.
PS3. Awesome.
PS3. Awesome.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Are they on dedicated servers for matchmaking and then go to p2p?
Probably too late by now, but MS is giving away 100 season passes to the first 100 who have bought the game and register their profile on XBL Rewards.
http://rewards.xbox.com/guardians/
http://rewards.xbox.com/guardians/
Probably too late by now, but MS is giving away 100 season passes to the first 100 who have bought the game and register their profile on XBL Rewards.
http://rewards.xbox.com/guardians/register/
I'm not interested in the season pass, but that link doesn't work. Just a heads up.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Don't do that. If your timer goes to 2 minutes, back out and queue up again.
I'm a vet of Gotham City Impostors and I suspect that they just hid things this time around. There was a distinct point when you knew things were screwed. They probably put you in your own lobby after a period of time. That never ends well when it takes that long.