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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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Bah, trident clone confusion was the best.
Sir Abacus
Member
I was already pushing 20 stacks of bleeds with trident clones. I'll be capping out with the latest changes. RIP confusion stacks though. 
irfaanator
Banned
Thanks for that link, this is definitely what I wanted to be looking at. Also yea engineer gets perma vigor with perma swift, but that doesnt come till level 40 or so.
Sir Abacus
Member
23 stacks of bleed just from 3 clones (which took me all of 3 seconds to bring up) and me. This isn't unbalanced at all. I was peaking out at cap though.
I'm sitting on 20 perma stacks of bleed fighting the Veteran Icebrood Fish occasionally bursting up to 25 cap with lucky strings of crits. If anything wanders into the area where I'm fighting it dies in 7-8 seconds because my clones just start bouncing the same bleeds over to it.
While your post explaining the new mechanics is awesome, Hawkian, I do find it weird that Anet's solution to bad first-time experiences in dungeons is making it even more likely that a PUG group will have a horrible first-time experience.
I understand that what you're saying is that it's now designed to teach people to become better players, but if the issue was that people were being completely turned off by their difficulty, I don't see it helping. It essentially makes a bad PUG worse. Don't get me wrong, as someone that loves dungeons already, I love the additional challenge and strategy created by eliminating res-rushes. But that makes it seem more like it was aimed for veteran players, not new players. I always viewed res-rushing to be the crutch that allowed players to get through a bad PUG. The downside was that a dungeon took longer than you wanted it to, which was what would force you to get a better, faster group.
I understand that what you're saying is that it's now designed to teach people to become better players, but if the issue was that people were being completely turned off by their difficulty, I don't see it helping. It essentially makes a bad PUG worse. Don't get me wrong, as someone that loves dungeons already, I love the additional challenge and strategy created by eliminating res-rushes. But that makes it seem more like it was aimed for veteran players, not new players. I always viewed res-rushing to be the crutch that allowed players to get through a bad PUG. The downside was that a dungeon took longer than you wanted it to, which was what would force you to get a better, faster group.
Mr. Luchador
Member
AC RUN. MUST HAVE AC GEAR OR HIGHER!
I wouldn't have argued that the issue was that people were turned off by their difficulty. The issue was that people misunderstood their difficulty- thinking that res rushing was part of the intended strategy for completion. You're correct that it was used as a crutch that allowed players who were not otherwise communicating or working well together to succeed by forcing their way through, but this was never a feature or intended design- merely the side effect of unskilled play not being punished in any way (lacking even a respawn timer, there was literally no downside to rezzing and running as fast as possible, and a team indeed would get pissed at you if you took too long lying defeated or hoping for a combat rez). It also, in a sense, denied teams that actually were capable of completing an encounter legitimately the opportunity to fail- as ridiculous as that sounds- because they were rewarded for taking the brute force approach. That's why dungeons feel more enjoyable to us as players who can see the additional layer of challenge and strategy- but it doesn't mean the idea was intended for us primarily.
The difference now is that any group- new, veteran, or mixed- must complete a given dungeon path without this crutch. Looking at this fact in isolation, from the perspective of a veteran player grouping with new players, I can see how you would interpret the change as being intended for veteran players. But try to look at it from the perspective of a new player- specifically, pretend you never even knew res-rushing existed (it will, after all, one day be a distant memory of the first 1/whateverth of the game's life). Instead of being allowed to muddle through without teamwork due to a cheesy mechanic, you'll have to listen to your teammates, adapt, and improve. If you can't, you can't complete the dungeon. That's the way it's supposed to work- res-rushing allowed for an "in-between" that never should have existed. Over time, the ability level of the average PUG in dungeons will necessarily increase with the removal of this mechanic.
Of course, you cannot look at the removal of res-rushing in isolation. It is one component of an overall redesign that is intended to make dungeons both better in the long-term and more approachable in the short-term for new players. And the first batch of changes went right alongside this ideal. Yes, you now have to face and defeat the Lovers in one "sitting," but they've been made substantially easier to compensate. Phase Two of the dungeon overhaul will bring changes of this nature to, from the sound of things, every existing path in the game.
Better groups still are, and always will be, faster to complete dungeons than groups that are less skilled. But the difference in time will now come from the less skilled group members being forced to reconsider their strategies, work together, and improve personally, rather than from the continuous priority on running back fast enough that the fight doesn't reset.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Wait, how do you have skills 7-0 while underwater?
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Ugh, all this time I thought underwater combat was terrible because I lost half my skill bar. I just needed to equip them. -_-
On another note I was doing one of the hearts in Sparkfly Fen when someone nearby got stuck in a hylek flame turret. I suggested typing "/stuck" but it didn't work. I took control of the turret and tried to move it; didn't work either. He suggested I port him out.
I actually hadn't unlocked the portal skill yet but luckily I had enough skill points to buy it. Plopped a portal and freed him.
He won't be using one of those turrets again. :lol
Sir Abacus
Member
I'm sorry man but I laughed at this. I'm glad you figured it out though. Underwater combat as a mes is ezmode compared to other classes.
That's really nice that you were able to help him, but the first option for anyone who gets stuck should be to use a "leap" skill.
Just passing this along; /stuck doesn't remove you from being stuck, but it does report that it happened to ArenaNet, so it's still a good idea to do it anyways. Best way to get unstuck is to use skills that cause you to move; leap, portal, teleport, whatever. Otherwise, waypoint.
I vote TA.
Not really related to the race thing, but I'm surprised TA isn't run more often. The first boss is easy now (he wasn't terribly hard to begin with), the "up" path maybe not as short as ghosty and definitely not CoF1, but can still be done in ~30 (maybe less if you skip more stuff than I do), and chances at Onyx Cores/Lodes.
Not really related to the race thing, but I'm surprised TA isn't run more often. The first boss is easy now (he wasn't terribly hard to begin with), the "up" path maybe not as short as ghosty and definitely not CoF1, but can still be done in ~30 (maybe less if you skip more stuff than I do), and chances at Onyx Cores/Lodes.
Underwater combat can be really good. Especially in a team. My only issue right now is that it's harder to do make combos, and I love to make combos. There are a multitude of finishers and fields you can make, but the fields are hard to see or understand while the good finishers tend to have some decent cooldowns. The field being in 3D also makes it much harder to line things up if you're not on voice chat. But it can be so fun at times.
Which reminds me: Last night I couldn't get to my computer in time for the start of weekly PvP night. So let's do it tonight. I'll pick a random empty server a couple minutes before the event to hopefully not attract randoms too early. Or I'll pick a 5v5 server. I'll yell about it in guild chat chat and all you'll have to do is right click my name in the guild roster and join my map. I'll start it at 9pm EST as usual. Thank you can make it?
Which reminds me: Last night I couldn't get to my computer in time for the start of weekly PvP night. So let's do it tonight. I'll pick a random empty server a couple minutes before the event to hopefully not attract randoms too early. Or I'll pick a 5v5 server. I'll yell about it in guild chat chat and all you'll have to do is right click my name in the guild roster and join my map. I'll start it at 9pm EST as usual. Thank you can make it?
Squall ASF
Member
Someone claimed to me the other day that he could use an elite under water. There aren't any elite skills you can use under water, correct?
There are a handful, but most classes don't have really useful AND usable underwater ones. Example being the screenshot up above this post somewhere (or on the last page), a mesmer can use Mass Invisibility underwater.
I believe every class has one, or is at least likely to have a racial available if not...
edit: oh, really? Hm.
edit: Ele's tornado becomes whirlpool underwater. awesome.
Squall ASF
Member
I was going to ask what the Ele one was but I guess you answered my question haha Tornado was such a massive disappointment. It looks awesome but is pretty much worthless against bosses. I've been rocking the conjure fiery great sword but am thinking of switching over to the summon elemental as it'd probably be the most useful for solo play.
MOTHER OF GOD... I didn't know this either! Mind blown. This is like that time I learned you could eat and drink at the same time in World of Warcraft after playing the game for 3 YEARS.
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I suppose the worst thing they could have done for underwater combat was not allow you to equip them unless you were not in combat and already underwater. Those two things combined don't seem to happen often enough.
And yes, every single class has at least 1 underwater elite skill. Every. Single. One. There are some changes, like the Ele's Tornado->Whirlpool, or the Mesmer's Moa Morph->Tuna Morph.
List: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite_skill
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I suppose the worst thing they could have done for underwater combat was not allow you to equip them unless you were not in combat and already underwater. Those two things combined don't seem to happen often enough.
And yes, every single class has at least 1 underwater elite skill. Every. Single. One. There are some changes, like the Ele's Tornado->Whirlpool, or the Mesmer's Moa Morph->Tuna Morph.
List: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite_skill
Hawkipoo do we have a time for when this will start? There's no thread on the guild forum.
(I already voted for COE)
Squall ASF
Member
The problem is that you still take damage in the tornado form. The damage is laughable so the only single use is disorienting a group for a second by tossing them around a bit but it's still very limited in how effective it is. That said, I tend to only think to use my elite when fighting bosses generally so perhaps it'd be useful in more regular mob situations. Still think there are better options.
irfaanator
Banned
Yea I saw that and was like wtf, I'm a goddamn tornado. Also becoming a giant is laughable b/c you loose all your other skills iirc. Pretty much it is worthless unless you like being huge or a tornado. Plus it's random what you get
Daily and Monthly reset about 20 minutes ago.
Also, Mandatory Password Change is coming February 7th; https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mandatory-password-change-is-coming/
Also, Mandatory Password Change is coming February 7th; https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mandatory-password-change-is-coming/
That's kind of the thing though, I am looking at it as if I was someone who had just started playing. When I ran my first dungeon, it was with a PUG, and we wiped about four times on a boss. When this happened again with a few other PUG groups, I just felt like playing with a PUG group was simply impossible. The few that I was able to get through, I could only do by res-rushing. I looked up dungeon mechanics and tried to foster teamwork, but that's the problem: a bad PUG is a bad PUG because they DON'T communicate, which is all to common when you put five random people together.
Now, communication is so necessary for survival, that there's practically no reason to even attempt a PUG group, especially for a new player. I could see new players wiping too much, and just saying that dungeons simply aren't for them.
It's a tough case, and I understand what you're trying to say. Dungeons were never meant to be res-rushed, and players do need to adapt to the type of gameplay Anet wants us to have. But until they massively change dungeon design to go along with it, it's going to be even more frustrating for new people to get into doing dungeons right now, unless they're in a team that communicates well and knows how to properly heal and work through a difficult boss.
I guess this is just more of a personal issue for myself. I can't stand the way Anet designed dungeons for new players, as I think it's totally counter intuitive to their own core values. As a new player, there's almost a DOTA level of frustration in not knowing how to complete the dungeons and having your random party members blame you for not knowing something you never could have known beforehand. Now add this new change on top, and it becomes even worse, in my opinion. Honestly, had I not had friends that joined the game at some point and were willing to work with me on figuring out how the dungeons worked, I never would have touched them again.
To clarify: I don't mind that they removed res-rushing. I agree with you that it's a bad mechanic, and one that was never intended. However, I don't like that they removed it BEFORE they made their proposed changes to the dungeons themselves. It's a case where you believe that removing it makes PUG's better over time, whereas I believe that removing it will make new people avoid dungeons.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Now I can use my mantras underwater, it's going to be awesome. I mean, I basically solo'ed the Ash Horizon last night. :lol
but I thought the game was a mindless zerg that was ez mode just dodge amidoinitrite
But seriously, they probably should have taken out rez rushng once they had all the other changes in. It will be interesting to see how The Lovers are without rez rushing. I think they had rez rushing in as a safety net, but realized it was being abused and people weren't bothering to pay attention and learn the dungeon. Will they do so if forced to now? I don't know.
I will say that a lot of stuff I hear about GW2 can be replied to with Learn To Play. It feels like ANet is so slightly suggesting the same thing to people with their choice of dailies and dungeon changes.
But seriously, they probably should have taken out rez rushng once they had all the other changes in. It will be interesting to see how The Lovers are without rez rushing. I think they had rez rushing in as a safety net, but realized it was being abused and people weren't bothering to pay attention and learn the dungeon. Will they do so if forced to now? I don't know.
I will say that a lot of stuff I hear about GW2 can be replied to with Learn To Play. It feels like ANet is so slightly suggesting the same thing to people with their choice of dailies and dungeon changes.
SE1 can be completed in under 30 mins
Lunar, was the first dungeon you ran AC story and the boss you wiped on Kholer?
Yeah, Kholer. And then we struggled again with the lovers, as the team didn't really know about separating them. (no one had done the dungeon before) I think my first run of Sorrow's Embrace Story really broke my nerve though. The problem is that when some bosses take so long (especially when everone is at lower levels), it gets absolutely infuriating when you wipe and KNOW your team won't communicate to get it done. All you want to do is move on.
So here are the changes to AC Story that accompanied this patch:
Generally, I agree with you that some level of accessibility is sacrificed by converting all dungeons to zero res-rushing all at once. But they did put some care into tweaking existing paths to lessen the frustration level to a new team.
I can't really agree that requiring some communication between players to succeed in one area of content goes against any of ArenaNet's principles. You needed to communicate in the Fissure or UW, or DoA in GW1, or your group would get massacred (and of course that happened to me with pugs on many occasions).
It's unavoidable that dungeon runs are always going to be better when you're in a team that communicates, whether it be a PUG or friends or guildies. Being in a PUG increases the chances that they won't. Maybe not as many newbie teams will succeed in AC Story, even with these nerfs- but the ones that do will be better for it.
There's always going to be a certain segment of the playerbase that is barred from content, not by gear or level or pay2win, but by skill level. Of course it's frustrating to wipe, learning the dungeons. I certainly hope it's not as intimidating as DOTA, because that game scares the shit out of me, but regardless of what the barrier of entry is, it's always going to be there in some capacity. Further dungeon changes will indeed hopefully lower it, which is good in many respects, but for every minute spent thinking about the new players hoping they don't get turned off of dungeons, they spend a second or two thinking about the guys that can solo Lupicus. There should be things in this game that are really damn hard, even if the vast majority is accessible to all.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
To be fair, they do acknowledge that some of the bosses and mobs are unfair or straight up HP sponges and are working to fix it:https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/robert-hrouda-on-upcoming-changes-to-dungeon-mechanics/
Unfortunately, that's part of Phase 2 AKA "when it's done".
AKA, they probably should have waited, but for whatever reason they decided to make the content harder first. I suppose they didn't want to make things easier first, as it would encourage farming, but at the same time they could have held off on the changes for a while longer.
Yeah, I know they're working on making the dungeons more enjoyable. I do trust them on this, especially after the fractals.
I'm probably making this seem like it's a bigger issue with me than it is; really I was just pointing out something I thought was funny about the order Anet went about things. And like I said, I personally love the fact that they removed res-rushing, just because it makes dungeons more fun with my friends and guild members.
I'm probably making this seem like it's a bigger issue with me than it is; really I was just pointing out something I thought was funny about the order Anet went about things. And like I said, I personally love the fact that they removed res-rushing, just because it makes dungeons more fun with my friends and guild members.
was about to jump.. until I saw
"Only available in Europe/UK, as these are European server keys"
Ah, you're right, my mistake. Nice catch.
Sooo... I've been away a long time.
Played my ass off the first weeks, got to 71 but then got a sort of burn out because I wasn't really satisfied with the end-game.
Arenanet did a great job on the leveling experience but to me, personally, the endgame fell a bit short. The dungeons were unbalanced and when you hit 80, there wasn't not much left to do then grind for gear and legendaries.
Now, since Ive been seeing a lot of patches coming up on the news channels, I felt a certain sting to start again.
My questions, though, is: Has there been a lot of change? How's the endgame and is the game still alive?
Thnx in advance!
Played my ass off the first weeks, got to 71 but then got a sort of burn out because I wasn't really satisfied with the end-game.
Arenanet did a great job on the leveling experience but to me, personally, the endgame fell a bit short. The dungeons were unbalanced and when you hit 80, there wasn't not much left to do then grind for gear and legendaries.
Now, since Ive been seeing a lot of patches coming up on the news channels, I felt a certain sting to start again.
My questions, though, is: Has there been a lot of change? How's the endgame and is the game still alive?
Thnx in advance!
NobleXenon
Member
I haven't had much time to play GW2 besides the new dailies. I have a question about guesting. If I guest on Stormbluff Isle and joined the GAF Guild, would the GAF Guild get the influence points for the stuff that we did together?
The game looks amazing after installing this. It's nuts. It was like a jump from SD to HDTV, the amount of detail in the textures increased so much that it still boggles my mind. FPS is also now stable at 60 all the time. Has me wondering if I could run GW2 on my netbook with this update.
I don't know how to answer endgame questions because I don't know what people are expecting. The dungeons were buggy early on, but the balance issues were mostly with the bosses. There's still alot of meat shields left which is what I imagine is part of the next dungeon revision. I liked a lot of the dungeons, so I can't say if you'll like them more now. If you stopped at 71 then you never got to at least three or four dungeons in the game.
Of course, they've added Fractals of the Mists which are some of the game's better dungeons. FotM is a collection of mini-dungeons you play in sets of three and four that increase in difficulty as you pass each set. These dungeons drop a special token that can be used to buy Ascended gear and infusions. After you reach the 10th level of difficulty, there is a chance for Ascended items to drop for you. Ascended gear has higher stats than exotic gear, but there are currently only Ascended rings, backpacks and amulets.
They added Southsun Cove or whatever, but there isn't a lot going on there anymore. It was busy during the event but is mostly used for harvesting now.
There's been new dynamic events added, new jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons to the open world. They just started the game's first "Living Story", but it's in its very early stages and I'm not sure what it really will entail. It's basically some NPCs in two lower level zones making a refugee pilgrimage across the zone with a couple added events.
Then there's WvWvW which is still WvWvW. Big PvP patch is supposed to be next month.
Of course, they've added Fractals of the Mists which are some of the game's better dungeons. FotM is a collection of mini-dungeons you play in sets of three and four that increase in difficulty as you pass each set. These dungeons drop a special token that can be used to buy Ascended gear and infusions. After you reach the 10th level of difficulty, there is a chance for Ascended items to drop for you. Ascended gear has higher stats than exotic gear, but there are currently only Ascended rings, backpacks and amulets.
They added Southsun Cove or whatever, but there isn't a lot going on there anymore. It was busy during the event but is mostly used for harvesting now.
There's been new dynamic events added, new jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons to the open world. They just started the game's first "Living Story", but it's in its very early stages and I'm not sure what it really will entail. It's basically some NPCs in two lower level zones making a refugee pilgrimage across the zone with a couple added events.
Then there's WvWvW which is still WvWvW. Big PvP patch is supposed to be next month.
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