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Guild Wars 2 |OT3| Two Week Updates, One Box, Zero Subscriptions

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Random question. Is there an earlier MMO or upcoming MMO that ignores the standard MMO trininty like GW2?

Tried TERA for a bit for variety's sake and while the action combat was fun I realized that it's tough to go back to that design choice.
 

Retro

Member
Random question. Is there an earlier MMO or upcoming MMO that ignores the standard MMO trininty like GW2?

Tried TERA for a bit for variety's sake and while the action combat was fun I realized that it's tough to go back to that design choice.

UO is the only major one that springs to mind. I'm sure there were others, but Diku-style gameplay is pretty much Page 1 in the Standardized MMO Design Manual, which EQ popularized, WoW perfected, and almost everyone else has spent the better part of a decade trying to capture.

Part of the reason GW2's community is so fervent is that it's the first AAA MMO in ages to do something different. EQNext is getting a lot of attention for the same reason, whereas Wildstar seems to be getting next to none. Seriously, for an MMO from a ton of ex-Blizzard employees that's supposed to be out sometime this year, the GAF thread for it is only like 6 pages... and it doesn't look that bad, honestly.
 
Ah ok. Im not sure how close I am to getting 16. I do remember looking at the list and thinking "hmm I think id rather just level" haha

There are a lot more than 16 though, so you don't need to do the ones you don't want to (I skipped the Fractal one for example).

Wildstar seems to be getting next to none. Seriously, for an MMO from a ton of ex-Blizzard employees that's supposed to be out sometime this year, the GAF thread for it is only like 6 pages... and it doesn't look that bad, honestly.

Wildstar's universe and adverts are really engaging (want a Mechari Warrior Scientist!), but there seems to be an awful lot of "we miss vanilla WoW, so we're making vanilla WoW" with that game which is putting me off.
 
Wildstar's universe and adverts are really engaging (want a Mechari Warrior Scientist!), but there seems to be an awful lot of "we miss vanilla WoW, so we're making vanilla WoW" with that game which is putting me off.

Yup. To be honest I feel like Wildstar is about 4 years too late. It's got some really great ideas thrown in there but some of the gameplay decisions just make it feel dated.
 

Retro

Member
Wildstar's universe and adverts are really engaging (want a Mechari Warrior Scientist!), but there seems to be an awful lot of "we miss vanilla WoW, so we're making vanilla WoW" with that game which is putting me off.

If somebody painted the picture of a "stylized, aciton-heavy, Firefly-esque sci-fi MMO", I'd be very curious. Unfortunately that picture is then framed by the trinity, an emphasis on a raiding endgame, separate factions dividing the community, and standardized questing? Suddenly that picture doesn't look so good. And when you factor in that we still don't know what their payment model will be? No thanks.

Did you even know I was on when you said "Kos talks too much"?

I checked first to make sure you WERE on, actually, because that was the point.

Seriously man, we're just teasing you in the same way we make fun of Ash for living in a pit with only a Fedora (which he claims he doesn't even own) to keep him warm, Hawkian being a post-boosting robot, Jira being bad at jumping puzzles, me at being a PR Mouthpiece with fiber issues, etc. That just means you're one of us. Sorry if it felt mean spirited. I forget the whole text-does-not-convey-emotion thing most of the time.
 
If somebody painted the picture of a "stylized, aciton-heavy, Firefly-esque sci-fi MMO", I'd be very curious. Unfortunately that picture is then framed by the trinity, an emphasis on a raiding endgame, separate factions dividing the community, and standardized questing? Suddenly that picture doesn't look so good. And when you factor in that we still don't know what their payment model will be? No thanks.

Apart from the trinity thing (I really don't mind it, and as I've said elsewhere I miss being a proper healer) I generally agree.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Only 11 fortune scraps to go.
..

HOW?

Tell me your secret!

Wildstar seems to be getting next to none. Seriously, for an MMO from a ton of ex-Blizzard employees that's supposed to be out sometime this year, the GAF thread for it is only like 6 pages... and it doesn't look that bad, honestly.

I like you Retro, but come on. The game doesn't even have a release date. The GW2 final trailer GAF thread had what, 2 pages? Wildstar doesn't have "6", but 11 I think, and there will be huge threads when its getting close to release, as with every MMO on GAF.
It's a huge topic on every MMO board, and a lot of people are hoping it will be good. I know you like GW2 a lot, but that just sounded quite condescending. It's too WoW on one hand for me, but I really love a lot of the stuff they're going for, the whole explorer/fighter/builder/etc stuff sounds incredibly interesting, and they do stuff on start which I hoped GW2 would have done by now - huge example: Housing. Proper housing.
Wildstar might be a huge failure of course, but it might also be the next huge MMO thing, an opportunity GW2 had and kicked away, sadly. We'll see.
 

Retro

Member
Apart from the trinity thing (I really don't mind it, and as I've said elsewhere I miss being a proper healer) I generally agree.

The trinity is very good at giving people a job that they can define and have certain expectations of, and it's very good at allowing content to be designed in a very logical, matter-of-fact way; x does y which leads to z. That's good for some games, in the same way that I don't necessarily like class-based games, but understand that the structure is familiar and useful for defining character roles.

It's just that the Trinity has more or less dominated MMOs for the last decade and a lot of us just want something less rigid and mechanical. When people complain that combat in GW2 is a clusterfuck, that's a positive for me, not a negative. The structure is just too rigid and after all of Vanilla, TBC and Wrath as a tank, I just can't enjoy the formulaic approach the trinity entails anymore.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
Seriously man, we're just teasing you in the same way we make fun of Ash for living in a pit with only a Fedora (which he claims he doesn't even own) to keep him warm, Hawkian being a post-boosting robot, Jira being bad at jumping puzzles, me at being a PR Mouthpiece with fiber issues, etc. That just means you're one of us. Sorry if it felt mean spirited. I forget the whole text-does-not-convey-emotion thing most of the time.
image.php
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Maybe it's just me, but GW2 is the first MMO where I'm looking forward to right now, or at least the immediate future, rather than some nebulous date when they do a bunch of stuff at once.
One of the things that absolutely resonated in Colin's post about the new release cadence (and a rare stroke of PR excellence) was the statement that the only two states the game will ever be found in now are:
1. Having been updated within the last week
2. Getting updated within the next week

Not to get to marketing bleh on you all, but this point is a real "power position" for ArenaNet. This is something they can claim and demonstrate that no other game available at the moment can match, which also means something relevant to every player and prospective player.

I think a true "it's happening" moment is going to occur when new skills are added for free for the first time. The degree to which that will shake up the day to day experience of logging in and playing can't be overstated.
 
..

HOW?

Tell me your secret!

I had...

2 lucky drops of 50 scraps.

Played lots of WvWvW with my carrion-gear condition Necro (massive DPS, multi-target -> more drops).

Converted all my materials in my bank to supply crates, took all the non-scrap things from that (recipes, quartz etc.) and sold them and bought more materials and repeated until I was broke. It's worth doing some calculations of which is the cheapest way to buy a crate at a given time - it fluctuates.

Only + Magic find stuff I have was the potions you get from the achievement rewards.

Last night, I had a reasonable amount of success (9 scraps in < 1 hour) grinding the earth elemental and harpy events in the Ascalon starting zone with my Necro (it was late and I was way past wanting a challenge).

One thing to mention - if you have >5000 achievement points then today you will get 400 gems which you can buy a pack of 25 kite fortunes with. If you look at the Wiki here (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kite_Fortune/drop_rate) you will see that you are basically guaranteed to get 1-4 scraps per fortune so even if you are the unluckiest person in the world, they are giving you 25 scraps, and more likely somewhere in the rage 25->100. I was going to do this as a backup plan, but since I've only 11 left to get, I'll just grind them.
 
I like you Retro, but come on. The game doesn't even have a release date. The GW2 final trailer GAF thread had what, 2 pages? Wildstar doesn't have "6", but 11 I think, and there will be huge threads when its getting close to release, as with every MMO on GAF.
It's a huge topic on every MMO board, and a lot of people are hoping it will be good. I know you like GW2 a lot, but that just sounded quite condescending. It's too WoW on one hand for me, but I really love a lot of the stuff they're going for, the whole explorer/fighter/builder/etc stuff sounds incredibly interesting, and they do stuff on start which I hoped GW2 would have done by now - huge example: Housing. Proper housing.
Wildstar might be a huge failure of course, but it might also be the next huge MMO thing, an opportunity GW2 had and kicked away, sadly. We'll see.

I frequent a few sites and I haven't seen a ton of hype on Wildstar at all tbh. First time I even heard about it was in Mumble a few months ago. I don't frequent MMO forums though so who knows, you might be right. And I'd wait and see how bug-free the game is on launch before touting what Wildstar gets right that other games have failed with. I only say that because they're packing in a ton of stuff and the more they put in the game at launch, the higher probability of major bugs.


The trinity is very good at giving people a job that they can define and have certain expectations of, and it's very good at allowing content to be designed in a very logical, matter-of-fact way; x does y which leads to z. That's good for some games, in the same way that I don't necessarily like class-based games, but understand that the structure is familiar and useful for defining character roles.

It's just that the Trinity has more or less dominated MMOs for the last decade and a lot of us just want something less rigid and mechanical. When people complain that combat in GW2 is a clusterfuck, that's a positive for me, not a negative. The structure is just too rigid and after all of Vanilla, TBC and Wrath as a tank, I just can't enjoy the formulaic approach the trinity entails anymore.

What I like about Trinity: Healing Classes

What I dislike about Trinity: Tanks being in control of groups due to high demand. DPS being disposable. Necessity of group composition. Choreographed encounters. Rock, Paper, Scissors PvP.
 

Levyne

Banned
Long roadtrip today so I will be posting in here from the discomfort of my car. Yay. Will miss the fever tomorrow too most likely
 
What I like about Trinity: Healing Classes

What I dislike about Trinity: Tanks being in control of groups due to high demand. DPS being disposable. Necessity of group composition. Choreographed encounters. Rock, Paper, Scissors PvP.

In PvE, there really is an issue with the disposability of DPS. In WoW they did add some utility to the DPS classes (although really health/soul-stones + teleports turned me into a combined vending machine and taxi service). There's a solution though: roll something else. My experience with WoW meant that when I started SWTOR I rolled a healing operative (even when they were weak) and a tanking Powertech (ditto) and had no problems.

The PvP balance thing is a real problem. It's difficult to get DPS to accept that if they can't kill healers and healers can't kill them, that's balanced. It's even harder to get them to accept that a pairing of a healer and a DPS/tank (or a DPS and a tank) can beat two DPS even though cross-role synergy *should* be the way the game works, because that's the game. As a result you end up with an endless cycle of QQ and nerfs because some people are allergic to team strategy and get unhappy when they are face-rolled by people who work together.

This then messes with PvE balance and the whole thing is a mess.

Even with GW2 you can see people whinging about certain builds, usually, bunker builds because (drum roll) they are hard to kill.
 

Trey

Member
Most of the complaining is levied toward the lack of game type options, though. The meta game is centralized around bunker builds because the object is to capture points on the map, which lends more to a defensive style of play.
 

Retro

Member
I like you Retro,

Uh oh.

but come on. The game doesn't even have a release date. The GW2 final trailer GAF thread had what, 2 pages? Wildstar doesn't have "6", but 11 I think, and there will be huge threads when its getting close to release, as with every MMO on GAF.

It's supposed to be out sometime this year; release date or no, for an MMO to have this little hype at that stage just seems very strange to me. I can remember games like Aion (which I kind of knew well in advance wasn't going to do well) having a lot of hype around them. It just seems weird that I don't hear more about it, and I tend to read the majority of the MMO sites and a couple of blogs. The last big bit of news about it was the E3 demo, and that was mostly negative (though it was a pre-release demo and supposedly very strict). The sizzle just isn't there.

Oh, and the number of pages is because I'm at 100pp and you're at 50; I just checked and it's at 500-something posts.

It's a huge topic on every MMO board, and a lot of people are hoping it will be good. I know you like GW2 a lot, but that just sounded quite condescending.

Again, I'm just not seeing it being discussed, but I tend not to frequent MMO forums as they're usually pretty ugly (including GW2 ones, especially Guru, which gave most Official Forums a run for their money). I see more on FFXIV's reboot, Elder Scrolls Online and EQNext (which is absurd because there's next to nothing out there for it yet).

I'm really not trying to be condescending; I'm just seriously not seeing that much buzz for it. I actually think it looks good (and said so), the combat looks interesting and I'm a HUGE sucker for that Firefly / Star Wars sort of lived-in aesthetic. There aren't enough sci-fi MMOs and it seems like it would be such a no-brainer but nobody's really done it outside of EVE, Tabula Rasa and Planetside 2. I'm sure there's a few others, but for whatever reason those are the only ones that stand out in my memory.

They do stuff on start which I hoped GW2 would have done by now - huge example: Housing. Proper housing.

Wildstar might be a huge failure of course, but it might also be the next huge MMO thing, an opportunity GW2 had and kicked away, sadly. We'll see.

See, this sounds much more condescending.

I think GW2, by all measures shy of "did it beat WoW?" has been a success. They're one of only three MMOs to survive the dreaded post-launch collapse (the others being WoW and EVE), they're expanding the company, putting out content faster than any MMO developer, and are apparently doing so well they're not even pushing for an expansion (which would both generate solid income and boost their population). What opportunity was kicked away?

Edit: Nevermind on that last point, doesn't need to be out there.
 

kanamechan

Member
Wow, gem hunting was seriously fun. Found 41 and one I can't get to :) How many more are there?

The design team really is good.

They do stuff on start which I hoped GW2 would have done by now - huge example: Housing. Proper housing.

The home instance is one huge wasted opportunity. That quarz you get might point that they want to change this. Honestly, make the home instance customizeable - add stuff everywhere in the world for it - and you'd get people searching everywhere to kit out their home. Instantly.
 
In PvE, there really is an issue with the disposability of DPS. In WoW they did add some utility to the DPS classes (although really health/soul-stones + teleports turned me into a combined vending machine and taxi service). There's a solution though: roll something else. My experience with WoW meant that when I started SWTOR I rolled a healing operative (even when they were weak) and a tanking Powertech (ditto) and had no problems.

The PvP balance thing is a real problem. It's difficult to get DPS to accept that if they can't kill healers and healers can't kill them, that's balanced. It's even harder to get them to accept that a pairing of a healer and a DPS/tank (or a DPS and a tank) can beat two DPS even though cross-role synergy *should* be the way the game works, because that's the game. As a result you end up with an endless cycle of QQ and nerfs because some people are allergic to team strategy and get unhappy when they are face-rolled by people who work together.

This then messes with PvE balance and the whole thing is a mess.

Even with GW2 you can see people whinging about certain builds, usually, bunker builds because (drum roll) they are hard to kill.

There is no PvP balance in the Trinity system due to the nature of Trinity. The closest you can get to it is in large numbers and even then composition often trumps team play where equal skill is concerned. This is the primary reason for the nerf/buff shuffle, though your observation is largely where the QQ comes from.

And the bunker complaints in GW2 are valid because the game mode makes bunkers more valuable while the class skillsets don't allow for Bunkers across the board. This is a problem because GW2 was touted as a game that doesn't force roles. A game where any player of any class would have access to every role in their own way. But where I could make a Thief Bunker in theory (that would work based on stealth, health regen, and Blinds/Dodges) that Bunker is essentially useless due to the capping mechanics of Conquest.

Edit: Beat by Trey in a much more concise way.



Don't get Kiel-hauled! Vote Evon Gnashblade for Captain's Council!
 

Retro

Member
IT'S A TRAP.

Heh, he was shilling for Evon during the livestream too; not just wearing a button but actually saying "Vote for Evon" at the end. In fact, I think most of the developers want to skew things towards Gnashblade. I think maybe because there was that initial reaction against him, where everyone thought "Eh, more black lion keys? Forget that". Since they revealed the Abbadon Fractal, everyone's abandoned poor Kiel.

Wow, gem hunting was seriously fun. Found 41 and one I can't get to :) How many more are there?

The design team really is good.

There's 52, but you only need 40 to get the achievement.

And yes, being able to jump, light-dash and lightning-teleport is going to be hard to give up when this chapter is over, that whole area is brilliantly designed. Some of those crystals were insanely well-placed too.
 
It is all cool I know if you guys had any issues you'd talk to me in officer forum or pm and not general chat.

The weird thig was I wasn't goings to play so I just came on to get achievement chest and first thing I see was that so caught me off guard.

PS. Siafra you hurt my feelings.
 

Lunar15

Member
If the design team skews towards Evon Gnashblade, they really need to stop making him act like a 1930's silent movie villain.

The weird thing is that, outside of that one cutscene, he's actually a pretty interesting character. They need to show him in a more sympathetic light, or at least show a reason to believe that Kiel would not be a good choice. It still just seems weird that they'd make us choose between this one guy no one's seen, and this other character that we've been doing stuff with for nearly 5 months.
 

kanamechan

Member
gnashblade is a jerk, and jerks make for more interesting stories. Stuff he'd push for would always be more interesting because it's less Traherne-goody-2-shoes and more douchebag-trolling-u-for-lulz.

That's why I'd vote for him. More fun to have in a position of power :D
 
There is no PvP balance in the Trinity system due to the nature of Trinity. The closest you can get to it is in large numbers and even then composition often trumps team play where equal skill is concerned. This is the primary reason for the nerf/buff shuffle, though your observation is largely where the QQ comes from.

It is true that it's rare for there to be 1v1 balance in a trinity game. It's theoretically possible but in practice extremely difficult, so some games don't even aim for it. I would argue that in PvP team composition is an important part of team-work though. Your pre-made needs to have the right mix of healers, tanks, stealth etc. and people need to know how to leverage the synergies, just like a PvE group.

As well as going in with premades in SWTOR I did a lot of Pugging too, and it's easy to see when players just aren't using those things. Tanks in defensive stances that don't taunt or guard for example make my head spin.
 

Ceres

Banned
Been taking a break from playing this week. Heatwave in my area that the A/C is having trouble keeping up with. Last thing I've wanted to do is sit at a computer.
But good news is I finally got my mic. Probably will still rarely use it but I'm all set for wub wub tonight.
 

Ashodin

Member
gnashblade is a jerk, and jerks make for more interesting stories. Stuff he'd push for would always be more interesting because it's less Traherne-goody-2-shoes and more douchebag-trolling-u-for-lulz.

That's why I'd vote for him. More fun to have in a position of power :D
This is something I mentioned to Retro, that Gnashblade is an unknown and his character development will be interesting to see.
 

Lunar15

Member
This is something I mentioned to Retro, that Gnashblade is an unknown and his character development will be interesting to see.

Kiel'd just be a buzz kill.

I bet Gnashblade knows how to throw a good party.

Plus, Magnus is totally setting Kiel up. It's too much collusion for the council. We need a crazy rouge agent. Gnashblade's our man.
 
It is true that it's rare for there to be 1v1 balance in a trinity game. It's theoretically possible but in practice extremely difficult, so some games don't even aim for it. I would argue that in PvP team composition is an important part of team-work though. Your pre-made needs to have the right mix of healers, tanks, stealth etc. and people need to know how to leverage the synergies, just like a PvE group.

As well as going in with premades in SWTOR I did a lot of Pugging too, and it's easy to see when players just aren't using those things. Tanks in defensive stances that don't taunt or guard for example make my head spin.

In many games composition is more important that teamwork, which is why you see the same team comps popping up repeatedly. But even looking at them as working in tandem (comp and team work that is), at novice levels of play you can get screwed by the RNG of your opponents team happening to have a comp that hard counters yours and at the high levels of play you have teams intentionally practicing to hard counter other teams known comps. This throws balanced composition out the window in it's effectiveness.

It's just an intrinsic problem with Trinity. Hell it's a problem in every game that doesn't have normalized damage between all players. The key to hiding it though is giving even the losing class in a hard counter match up the tools to upset the status quo if played correctly and I just don't see that in most games. I feel like it must be incredibly hard to tune for. I don't envy PvP Dev Teams at all.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
I must have slayed 20+ Champions today with the help of random folks calling out the champ spawns all over Queensdale.

Giant Boards, Wasps, Oakhearts, Bandit Leaders and Trolls - even had a fight with the swamp boss too for good measure.

Silly amount of fun have been had, and this was just playing solo.

Really looking forward to champ chests.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Oh, and the number of pages is because I'm at 100pp and you're at 50; I just checked and it's at 500-something posts.
ooh, this makes sense - didn't think about that!
See, this sounds much more condescending.

I think GW2, by all measures shy of "did it beat WoW?" has been a success.

Absolutely! If you'd ask me, it clearly actually did beat WoW (if we go for initial impact, and not absolute player numbers, which would be pretty much impossible to beat at this point, and by how much I personally enjoyed it). What I meant is that in my opinion, Anet just screwed it up along the way and due to certain actions and unfullfilled promises dropped the ball majorly, losing the force on what might have lead to WoW's "downfall" if one would want to word it that way. I don't argue the initial success of the game, it just could have been so much more. They 'could' have been the often talked about "WoW killer", but they strayed from their path, made some strange design decisions that went directly against their players' opinion and lost a huge amount of momentum because of that.

Even in this thread it feels to me like 90% of posts come from the same 20-ish people, and in my personal gameplay experience, it feels like a huge lot of players have either returned to "their" old MMO or moved on to another one. I dunno, maybe it's all still personal disappointment.

It would be interesting if this would still be an OT thread instead of a Community thread, which makes it pretty much a guild chat most of the time.

Ah whatever, let's move on :)
 

nataku

Member
I must have slayed 20+ Champions today with the help of random folks calling out the champ spawns all over Queensdale.

Giant Boards, Wasps, Oakhearts, Bandit Leaders and Trolls - even had a fight with the swamp boss too for good measure.

Silly amount of fun have been had, and this was just playing solo.

Really looking forward to champ chests.

I hope they up champion difficulty, honestly. Make them scale better to the inevitable increase in people that will be fighting them at once.

I'm looking forward to the rewards, but fighting champions is extremely boring once you really start to outnumber them.
 

Moondrop

Banned
I got beat by a guardian for the first time in forever. He called down multiple spirit weapons and they burst me down. Later I could see he was fairly squishy himself, and he was taking good advantage of the gimmicky Skyhammer map.

Nevertheless, can someone provide some spirit weapon knowledge so I can develop an effective counter?
 

Retro

Member
What I meant is that in my opinion, Anet just screwed it up along the way and due to certain actions and unfullfilled promises dropped the ball majorly, losing the force on what might have lead to WoW's "downfall" if one would want to word it that way. I don't argue the initial success of the game, it just could have been so much more. They 'could' have been the often talked about "WoW killer", but they strayed from their path, made some strange design decisions that went directly against their players' opinion and lost a huge amount of momentum because of that.

I don't think any game developer has ever claimed to be a "WoW Killer", and if they did they were absolute morons for doing so. That label gets thrown around a lot by people who, for whatever reason, want to see WoW fail. I've always just wanted something different at roughly the same level of polish and support. Rift was close, but the gameplay was too similar (Trion really doesn't get enough credit for how well Rift launched, by the by, and their support was beastly before ArenaNet stepped up).

So I guess I wasn't too interested in seeing WoW get replaced, because the genre is littered with the corpses of games who tried. It's enough for me that they're sticking to their guns, aren't afraid to make major changes, and keep supporting the game like rabid, content-generating wombats. I think the game's success shows that approach is popular. Could they have done better? Sure. I dunno about losing momentum; they stumbled a bit early on while they were transitioning from "Development" to "Service", but it seems like they're gaining momentum more than anything lately.

As far as "against player opinions"... I fall into the camp that thinks most gamers really don't know what they want, or even what they think they want. See the Zelda cycle, every Official Forum Ever, etc.

This isn't really a heated discussion and it's not like there's any hot topics until next Tuesday. I'm curious what player feedback you think ArenaNet ignored or strange decisions they made. Not being antagonistic or anything, just genuinely curious. If you'd rather just move on, that's fine too, just say so and we'll change the subject.

Even in this thread it feels to me like 90% of posts come from the same 20-ish people, and in my personal gameplay experience, it feels like a huge lot of players have either returned to "their" old MMO or moved on to another one. I dunno, maybe it's all still personal disappointment.

See, I don't get that impression at all. There's always going to be a lot of folks who dominate a given thread just by virtue of their enthusiasm for the game. I think the last OTs had some unspeakably high views-to-posts ratio;

OT1: 20,077 Posts, 1,040,619 views
OT2: 19,994 Posts, 1,177,811 views

That's a lot of lurkers or people checking the game out. So yeah, there's the usual suspects in here chatting it up, but I think that's true of any community.

And for what it's worth, despite culling inactive members from the guild earlier this month, we're still sitting at about 400 members. That's 400 people who have logged in since at least May... so while I'm sure a lot of people have left or returned to their old MMOs, there's been enough new and returning players that the guild still flirts with being full.

Anecdotal evidence, of course, but what little we get to hear of ANet's internal numbers suggest that's happening across the board; 3m players as of January and recent interviews have implied they're getting close to 4.

I think the folks who stuck with it are genuinely happy, and there's enough of them that the game is able to expand well beyond anyone's expectations.
 

Levyne

Banned
The strategy becomes "stay on the other side of the arena and laugh at the dead".

All this pve talk with Moondrop's post sandwiched in...I don't have an answer though. I usually end up in stalemates against guardians (ie, neither dies until help arrives on one side or the other.) I dunno if it's a lack of boon strippng or what.

Edit: Oh fuck I'm being crushed by a Retro megapost.
 
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