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[Jest Chillin]

Just because the red line is there, doesn't mean you can't run through it. You just have to hurry through before she shoots.

If there's a static line there, dodge through it, or pop stability.

Not pointed at you, but there's no excuse unless you're worried about the achievement.

As far as covering goes, I was mostly talking about the ability to actually see the buffs. They're not always visible when covered by that ground attack. Though for my Thief, that static hurts quite a bit. I dropped a couple times from it when I wasn't even technically in it's telegraph.

Achievement or no, when a fight requires you to use a certain mechanic in order to actually do DPS, it shouldn't require the player to nearly die in order to do so. This only happens in this fight as a result of the buffs and attacks both happening dynamically (and seemingly independent of each other), rather than following a pattern or at the very least, having something written in so that the attacks won't cover any more than say 50-60% of a buff circle.

 

[shysaursoft]

A lot of people don't realize you can run through the holo to get to the buff circles on the other side, either - just dodge the foot stomp.

What's *really* bad luck though, is the three-holo split - red, green and blue are all almost dead, green and blue go dead, red is 1 pixel left, when suddenly everyone with the red buff has a blue circle placed under them, removing the red buff. And there's no red circle anywhere to be seen. Thus, red doesn't die in time, and the holos fracture into the micros.

That, totally sucks.

 

[Proven]

As far as covering goes, I was mostly talking about the ability to actually see the buffs. They're not always visible when covered by that ground attack. Though for my Thief, that static hurts quite a bit. I dropped a couple times from it when I wasn't even technically in it's telegraph.

Achievement or no, when a fight requires you to use a certain mechanic in order to actually do DPS, it shouldn't require the player to nearly die in order to do so. This only happens in this fight as a result of the buffs and attacks both happening dynamically (and seemingly independent of each other), rather than following a pattern or at the very least, having something written in so that the attacks won't cover any more than say 50-60% of a buff circle.

Why not have getting the buff be the more dangerous part of the fight? It's already really easy to just stand in the center and strafe/dodge around to its back to avoid attacks. The alternative is to have the boss be much more dangerous to melee folk (less time to respond) while risking spell effects from ranged attackers obstructing telegraphs.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Why not have getting the buff be the more dangerous part of the fight? It's already really easy to just stand in the center and strafe/dodge around to its back to avoid attacks. The alternative is to have the boss be much more dangerous to melee folk (less time to respond) while risking spell effects from ranged attackers obstructing telegraphs.

That phase of the fight isn't designed to be difficult... just a time sink. But having the buffs being unable to be seen due to the attacks doesn't add anything to the encounter. Forcing a player to nearly die to collect the buff doesn't add anything to the encounter either. My suggestion wouldn't change much of the intent of the encounter anyways. Players would still have to use movement to avoid damage from attacks while picking up the buffs. There would just be no situations where they absolutely must take damage or not get the buff (and thus have their DPS suffer as a result). More importantly though, people would be a lot more likely to understand that they need to stand in the circles to pick up the buffs, if they could actually see the buffs clearly during the fight.

 

[Lunar15]

Question: What even are those buffs?

Do they come from something? What are those symbols?

 

[Retro]

Question: What even are those buffs?

Do they come from something? What are those symbols?

They're the symbols for the three colleges of the Asura: Dynamics, Statics and Synergetics. Scarlet is one of the few to complete all three.

 

[shysaursoft]

That phase of the fight isn't designed to be difficult... just a time sink. But having the buffs being unable to be seen due to the attacks doesn't add anything to the encounter. Forcing a player to nearly die to collect the buff doesn't add anything to the encounter either. My suggestion wouldn't change much of the intent of the encounter anyways. Players would still have to use movement to avoid damage from attacks while picking up the buffs. There would just be no situations where they absolutely must take damage or not get the buff (and thus have their DPS suffer as a result). More importantly though, people would be a lot more likely to understand that they need to stand in the circles to pick up the buffs, if they could actually see the buffs clearly during the fight.

But you don't need all three to do damage - just one. Having three just lets you do more/full damage, and it lasts longer.

 

[Lunar15]

They're the symbols for the three colleges of the Asura: Dynamics, Statics and Synergetics. Scarlet is one of the few to complete all three.

Huh, never knew that. But where are the circles even coming from?

 

[shysaursoft]

Huh, never knew that. But where are the circles even coming from?

Gameplay Conceit Space (tm), would be my guess.

 

[Retro]

Edit: Lunar and Proven, I haven't forgotten I owe you guys Mega Posts on Currency / Traits.

Huh, never knew that. But where are the circles even coming from?

Every so often they'll shoot off from Holo-Scarlet. Why, I dunno. Vidyagamez.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Is anyone playing this still?

 

[Jest Chillin]

But you don't need all three to do damage - just one. Having three just lets you do more/full damage, and it lasts longer.

Well yeah, but Jira had mentioned people not having the full buffs making the fight longer. So my comments were sort of in light of that aspect.

 

[Retro]

Is anyone playing this still?

You know damn well there is!

 

[leng jai]

Is anyone playing this still?

Uncle Kos never gets old.

 

[Boss Doggie]

A lot of people don't realize you can run through the holo to get to the buff circles on the other side, either - just dodge the foot stomp.

What's *really* bad luck though, is the three-holo split - red, green and blue are all almost dead, green and blue go dead, red is 1 pixel left, when suddenly everyone with the red buff has a blue circle placed under them, removing the red buff. And there's no red circle anywhere to be seen. Thus, red doesn't die in time, and the holos fracture into the micros.

That, totally sucks.

This is my problem in the holo fight.

 

[shysaursoft]

But when things go right, and everyone works in concert, and everyone's having fun, ressing each other, and knows what to do - the fight is glorious, well-designed, and a ton of fun.

Bad luck at circle placement aside, the only thing GW2 lacks is a slightly more... intelligent, community. I blame the fact that (according to totally non-scientific reddit poll) most people that play are 19 years old. *old man grump*

 

[Retro]

Reminder:
Guild Missions begin in 1 hour. Please also note that the guild schedule does not observe Daylight Savings Time: if it was 9pm before, it will be 9pm after.

 

[hockeypuck]

Reminder:
Guild Missions begin in 1 hour. Please also note that the guild schedule does not observe Daylight Savings Time: if it was 9pm before, it will be 9pm after.

So most schools, businesses, and government offices also do not observe DST by your criteria?

Spoiler

It's the server reset that doesn't observe it, IMO

 

[Kos Luftar]

See you all in 30 minutes. Everyone must have a drink if they are going to be on mumble.

 

[Complistic]

Scarlet fight was excellent. Scarlet end cutscene was FANTASTIC though.

 

[Proven]

Edit: Lunar and Proven, I haven't forgotten I owe you guys Mega Posts on Currency / Traits.

I fear that by the time you post it, I'll be back to not thinking much about rewards.

 

[Mxrz]

Fun missions tonight. I feel a bit guilty about getting another armor box, but RNG gonna RNG.

 

[Retro]

Nice work on Guild Missions, everyone. Congratulations to Callunah on the 10g Doorprize and Zeroth on the 101g jackpot.

Makeups are tomorrow at 3pm Eastern time, remember the time change will make it feel earlier in the day.

I fear that by the time you post it, I'll be back to not thinking much about rewards.

I don't have any particular insights anyways, other than I think Karma should be made more useful as a currency that has absolutely no value outside of Karma vendors (since gold can be used and obtained in a lot of ways). Karma trains and such would need to be stopped first, not sure if there's any way to really do that, but it'd be worth a try.

 

[markot]

Scarlet fight was excellent. Scarlet end cutscene was FANTASTIC though.

What's better fantastic or excellent?

 

[Retro]

What's better fantastic or excellent?

The one in all caps, I reckon.

 

[markot]

I think the actual content of this patch was disappoint. Fights are just zerg fests where the only time I have seen it fail is when its not had enough people. None of it seems to scale at all.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Logged in this morning and my character was squatting for no apparent reason.

 

[Retro]

I think the actual content of this patch was disappoint. Fights are just zerg fests where the only time I have seen it fail is when its not had enough people. None of it seems to scale at all.

For the first day or so, maybe. Once the 50-person cap was placed on the buff, it became the usual anti-zerg affair for the knights. I'm also not sure how the Hologram fight can be considered a zerg when everyone is spread out for so much of it, focusing first on maintaining their Light buff, then on three targets (which are easier if burned down at the same time), then on multiple targets. With a healthy dash of reviving downed players and avoiding hazards thrown in for good measure.

At some point, people are going to have to realize "lots of people" =/= "Zerg". A zerg is defined not by numbers alone, but a lack of strategy made up for by numerical advantage. If we're going to paint in such broad strokes, the beloved 40-man raiding of yesterday falls very firmly into the 'zerg' category as well, even though we all know they require a degree of strategy as well.

 

[Complistic]

Logged in this morning and my character was squatting for no apparent reason.

I wrote something out, but then I deleted it and typed this. You're welcome.

 

[Shiokazu]

you know why they call it zerg right?

i mean, if you ever played SC then you probably know why.

Spoiler

and yes, to be called a zerg is pretty offensive.

 

[nataku]

God damnit. I just realized I missed Kasmeer's staff, again. I went to buy it before work the day it was available and the thing simply wouldn't load to the page to buy it. The store front loaded, but clicking on the staff did nothing, no matter how long I waited.

I told myself I'd get it after work, but ended up completely forgetting about it.

 

[Shiokazu]

im running EOTM after make ups... oh well...

if anyone wants to join, just making clear, im bad at pvp.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Guild Mission Make-up...starting now.

 

[markot]

For the first day or so, maybe. Once the 50-person cap was placed on the buff, it became the usual anti-zerg affair for the knights. I'm also not sure how the Hologram fight can be considered a zerg when everyone is spread out for so much of it, focusing first on maintaining their Light buff, then on three targets (which are easier if burned down at the same time), then on multiple targets. With a healthy dash of reviving downed players and avoiding hazards thrown in for good measure.

At some point, people are going to have to realize "lots of people" =/= "Zerg". A zerg is defined not by numbers alone, but a lack of strategy made up for by numerical advantage. If we're going to paint in such broad strokes, the beloved 40-man raiding of yesterday falls very firmly into the 'zerg' category as well, even though we all know they require a degree of strategy as well.

The content is mindless. The content requires at least 40 or so people at each knight. The holograms depend on having enough people to do the damage. It's all about numbers. Server have 100 people for knights? Sorry, not today.

 

[Mxrz]

God damnit. I just realized I missed Kasmeer's staff, again. I went to buy it before work the day it was available and the thing simply wouldn't load to the page to buy it. The store front loaded, but clicking on the staff did nothing, no matter how long I waited.

I told myself I'd get it after work, but ended up completely forgetting about it.

Might be worth trying CS. They're pretty good about this sorta thing.

 

[Retro]

Nice job on Mission Makeups, thanks to everyone who volunteered to get folks through.

The content is mindless. The content requires at least 40 or so people at each knight. The holograms depend on having enough people to do the damage. It's all about numbers. Server have 100 people for knights? Sorry, not today.

Those are just the requirements though, not strategies. Nobody says "raids are mindless" because you can't do a 40 man with 30 people (Well, not current raids, at least). Same thing here; yes, you need lots of people to do it, but that's because it's meant to be a large-scale encounter for a lot of people. That's not the only requirement for success, as those people also all need to work together. Not just because it takes that much damage to kill Scarlet, but because there are parts you have to split off and do separately, and do simultaneously if you don't want to risk running out of time.

 

[Remfin]

We did Green yesterday with 25

...we finished first, when the other 2 had a full 50 (and Red didn't finish)

100 is actually more than enough (but not for the 6 minute achievement I'm sure)

 

[Retro]

We did Green yesterday with 25

...we finished first, when the other 2 had a full 50 (and Red didn't finish)

100 is actually more than enough (but not for the 6 minute achievement I'm sure)

I had a similar experience, Red and Blue were both short about 10-20 people the entire fight. Somehow the Aetherblade Admiral was dragged into Green, so they both had to be done at the same time. Green was the only one fully manned, I was at Blue and we never had more than 40. I think Red was probably lower than that.

 

[shysaursoft]

It's thinking the content is mindless and based only on numbers, that causes most servers and overflows to fail, from what I've seen. Maps that got the mechanics, listened to people's suggestions, usually succeed - with the exception of maps full of people too lazy/uninterested to equip a weapon or trait for damage over conditions. It's the 'mash 1 and wail to get ressed when downed' crowd that make content harder/take longer than it needs to.

I've even seen a map with only 20 on each Knight succeed, albeit a clutch victory at the last split second.

But the community has proven, time and again, it doesn't want challenge, it doesn't want content that requires people to know how to play, or be organized. They just want precursors to rain from the sky, and for their class to be better than every other class in PVP.

*grump*

 

[Jira]

It's thinking the content is mindless and based only on numbers, that causes most servers and overflows to fail, from what I've seen. Maps that got the mechanics, listened to people's suggestions, usually succeed - with the exception of maps full of people too lazy/uninterested to equip a weapon or trait for damage over conditions. It's the 'mash 1 and wail to get ressed when downed' crowd that make content harder/take longer than it needs to.

I've even seen a map with only 20 on each Knight succeed, albeit a clutch victory at the last split second.

But the community has proven, time and again, it doesn't want challenge, it doesn't want content that requires people to know how to play, or be organized. They just want precursors to rain from the sky, and for their class to be better than every other class in PVP.

*grump*

This is an issue with gaming in general. It's the whole gamer entitlement thing that has cropped up over the past 10 years. Doesn't matter which game you go to, everyone wants everything for nothing.

 

[Remfin]

This is an issue with gaming in general. It's the whole gamer entitlement thing that has cropped up over the past 10 years. Doesn't matter which game you go to, everyone wants everything for nothing.

It's not just "entitlement", people just don't get it.

Everquest's Planes of Power was infamous for requiring numbers, and yet the things that were basically called "impossible" were doable with a ridiculously smaller number of people. You could do the entire Plane of Time (widely regarded as a 72-person-only raid) with 36 or less. I know so, because we did. And I don't know about my fellow raiders, but I didn't even have a good number of AA points, so I wasn't exactly buffed out either.

 

[Retro]

But the community has proven, time and again, it doesn't want challenge, it doesn't want content that requires people to know how to play, or be organized. They just want precursors to rain from the sky, and for their class to be better than every other class in PVP.

*grump*

I still think you're casting too wide a net by saying "the community". Fights like Marionette wouldn't be praised if that were true, but that's basically what happened (if Reddit is any indicator of a general opinion). I think you have a very small subset of the whole, as usual. I certainly don't think the average GW2 player falls along the lines of "If I have to think, it's too hard." At least I hope not. But I also think ArenaNet will never capitulate towards that sort of playstyle (if "lazy" can be called a playstyle, of course), and if anything they're going to try to make things harder. But let's not forget that they're a company that, not too terribly long ago, said they weren't a videogame company but a "community-building" company. Their focus on large, non-instanced content is just another way they stand out from the "instance everything" approach that's easier but less interesting. There's already enough terrible MMOs with long hallways and uninteresting loot pinatas.

Still, I wouldn't mind some more dungeons / revamps though. As much as I enjoy all of these big open fights, I do love a good dungeon every now and then, preferably ones that aren't so... dungeonous (I like open-air stuff like HotW and TA, thematically.)

 

[shysaursoft]

When I say "the community" I usually mean "Fort Aspenwood".

 

[Boss Doggie]

I just realized that I can pretty much just do Scarlet dungeon 10 times for a quick monthly

 

[Retro]

When I say "the community" I usually mean "Fort Aspenwood".

No, there's people like that in Map chat on SBI, and I'm sure they're pretty much everywhere else. But there aren't as many of them as you think, especially if you cut out the people who just don't know any better and believe that viewpoint is truth (generally the same type of people who quit because they thought the Queensdale Train was how GW2 is played).

 

[Shiokazu]

i like the game. i really do like, as most people here we know what to do and we know what we are doing. ok, we found the interest in the game to go ahead a experiment and to think better of a encounter and even sometimes learn with death.


but, i noticed that i've been blaming the community over and over and over again, and thats not right. I mean, it cant really be the community's fault for not trying to discover or to find ways around.

------------------------------------

about ETOM today:

i realized i hate it.

the way its been played is stupid. i dont see fights, sieges, things that really make it a war... i only see people avoiding fights, and this sort of thing, its not fun... it gets worse when theres only like 20 people from your server and theres a sea of red names running around.

im on the verge of starting insulting guild wars 2 community for not being able to play the game in a certain way,

which is stupid, because we cant force people to play the way we think it should be played.

am i the one who is playing the game the wrong way all this time and i didnt realized it yet?

 

[Jira]

i like the game. i really do like, as most people here we know what to do and we know what we are doing. ok, we found the interest in the game to go ahead a experiment and to think better of a encounter and even sometimes learn with death.


but, i noticed that i've been blaming the community over and over and over again, and thats not right. I mean, it cant really be the community's fault for not trying to discover or to find ways around.

------------------------------------

about ETOM today:

i realized i hate it.

the way its been played is stupid. i dont see fights, sieges, things that really make it a war... i only see people avoiding fights, and this sort of thing, its not fun... it gets worse when theres only like 20 people from your server and theres a sea of red names running around.

im on the verge of starting insulting guild wars 2 community for not being able to play the game in a certain way,

which is stupid, because we cant force people to play the way we think it should be played.

am i the one who is playing the game the wrong way all this time and i didnt realized it yet?

Sounds like you got put into a losing overflow which is unfortunate. I don't think you've been playing wrong at all, what you're observing is human nature where we band together in groups because of safety in numbers. It's something that is honestly very difficult to break since it's pretty much hard coded into us. Try getting into a version of EOTM that's more even sided and it's a completely different experience. It also doesn't help that when new content comes out, everyone flocks to it but that's an issue in every game out there. EOTM will pick up after the Aftermath update since we'll have update downtime from then till who knows when.

 

[Shiokazu]

Sounds like you got put into a losing overflow which is unfortunate. I don't think you've been playing wrong at all, what you're observing is human nature where we band together in groups because of safety in numbers. It's something that is honestly very difficult to break since it's pretty much hard coded into us. Try getting into a version of EOTM that's more even sided and it's a completely different experience. It also doesn't help that when new content comes out, everyone flocks to it but that's an issue in every game out there. EOTM will pick up after the Aftermath update since we'll have update downtime from then till who knows when.

yes... my overflow was terrible.

so... the zerg train mind is a genetic problem? sort of?

 

[Hawkian]

Still, I wouldn't mind some more dungeons / revamps though. As much as I enjoy all of these big open fights, I do love a good dungeon every now and then, preferably ones that aren't so... dungeonous (I like open-air stuff like HotW and TA, thematically.)

Give me the CM with new AC treatment and I'll spend all day in there. It's the least dungeony environment I'd ever have expected and I really enjoy the idea behind what you're doing there. Some of the rooms are just awesome too (rocket reflection ftw).

 

[Grayman]

I still think you're casting too wide a net by saying "the community". Fights like Marionette wouldn't be praised if that were true, but that's basically what happened (if Reddit is any indicator of a general opinion). I think you have a very small subset of the whole, as usual. I certainly don't think the average GW2 player falls along the lines of "If I have to think, it's too hard." At least I hope not. But I also think ArenaNet will never capitulate towards that sort of playstyle (if "lazy" can be called a playstyle, of course), and if anything they're going to try to make things harder. But let's not forget that they're a company that, not too terribly long ago, said they weren't a videogame company but a "community-building" company. Their focus on large, non-instanced content is just another way they stand out from the "instance everything" approach that's easier but less interesting. There's already enough terrible MMOs with long hallways and uninteresting loot pinatas.

Still, I wouldn't mind some more dungeons / revamps though. As much as I enjoy all of these big open fights, I do love a good dungeon every now and then, preferably ones that aren't so... dungeonous (I like open-air stuff like HotW and TA, thematically.)

The major non instanted content lately has been all boss based. Maybe they will do something that is more similar to a guild puzzle or open world dungeon that mixes in jumping and light puzzles.