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Guild Wars 2 |OT3| Two Week Updates, One Box, Zero Subscriptions
- Thread starter Retro
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He double-downed while the Norn was taking down the first mob. I really enjoyed that comic. Look at the bear's face post-battle.
I finally found a reason to run On My Mark! over Fear Me! in my cleric build beyond the shorter cooldown: I can put fools into combat at 1200 range.
Complistic
Member
he clearly bled out before she was able to kill anyone.
Coriolanus
Banned
Ten minutes with a decent group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0K2K-8swAY
Twenty trinked out warrior solo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZfyYbnl0z8
That comic would only be correct if it ended with Yeaaaaaaaaaaah no *gathers something 5 feet from the corpse and walks away*
Oh, I know it's possible, we had a member who did that a lot, after all. It's more that I can't quite imagine it after the numerous attempts with a full group and taking 4+ hours. I guess I could blame our gnome thief for dying so much *cough*.
shysaursoft
Member
This thread is actually really interesting - I somehow missed it: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/249pc7/effective_power_and_effective_health_of_all/
So unless I misunderstand it, Celestial for example does 61% "raw" damage compared to the highest damage set (Zerk), and has 63% raw survivability compared to the highest survivability focused set (Sentinel). This all ignores condition damage, of course.
So while Zerk has 100% damage output compared to others, it only has 35% survivability compared to Sentinel.
I think this is the first time the armour sets have clicked for me, in terms of what the dang stats *mean*.
Something I found interesting and didn't know, is if you just add zerk trinkets to the Celestial set, it goes up in Epower to 83%, and only drops to 49% survivability.
So unless I misunderstand it, Celestial for example does 61% "raw" damage compared to the highest damage set (Zerk), and has 63% raw survivability compared to the highest survivability focused set (Sentinel). This all ignores condition damage, of course.
So while Zerk has 100% damage output compared to others, it only has 35% survivability compared to Sentinel.
I think this is the first time the armour sets have clicked for me, in terms of what the dang stats *mean*.
Something I found interesting and didn't know, is if you just add zerk trinkets to the Celestial set, it goes up in Epower to 83%, and only drops to 49% survivability.
shysaursoft
Member
I really didn't want to mix and match, since I like keeping things simple, but now that Ascended is account-bound, I may move all my ascended trinkets off my Engineer and replace them with Zerker ones. I might even have a few Zerker ascended rings already, thanks to Fractals.
Speaking of which, I've not done fractals in /months/. I want to get back into them, but I want to run with a regular group, not pug.
Coriolanus
Banned
I am guessing that having the whole group watch a 30min clear tutorial vid would improve those times substantially. Could be wrong, but most likely wouldn't hurt.
I've been running fractals lately with Stouffer and a few gaffers. Since I'm close to the personal level 10 threshold, we could do lv 21 fractals somewhat regularly, if people are up for it.
shysaursoft
Member
I'm only personal reward level 11 myself, with zero AR.
That's fine too! We are running lv 11 fractals anyway, and most of us don't have any AR.
Oh, I'm sure of it, though it's the kind of stuff you need to play to learn, I guess.
shysaursoft
Member
What time EST do you usually run?
Well, we don't have quite a fixed time, but we can do it as early as right after SBI's Tequatl. Last night we ran a bit late at 10 PM EST, though we generally run at the best time for everyone.
The Effective Power stuff is interesting (though not new). But I strongly disagree with his definition of Effective Health, as it completely neglects Healing Power. Doesn't even acknowledge it under "Obvious Issues." People tried to point it out in the reddit thread but it devolved into bashing healing.
shysaursoft
Member
Odd... I saw it in the original post:
But yeah. I'm taking the chart entirely as just a super-broad-strokes idea, and in that sense it really is the first time the stat sets have made sense to me in a way where I can actually make a moderately informed choice. The reason run 100% Celestial on my engineer isn't because I thought it was best, but because I /hate/ having to crunch numbers and min/max and all that other stuff. It just isn't my style. I really wish armour values were represented with A through F rankings like Hot Shots Golf club values.
He put it under "Limitations." But my point is that neglecting healing power isn't merely a limitation of his model- it renders his entire model invalid.
Let's say I'm using Healing Signet on a warrior and it's giving me 400 HP/s. Then my true effective health over a 5-second span is base health + 2000. This is how I perform effective health calculations for my cleric theorycrafting.
To propose a definition of effective health without taking healing into account boggles my mind.
I believe the problem is that with HP you need to take in consideration what skill is being used, and that then divides the stats among several classes and their different healing methods. Disregarding HP means you get a simplified view on it, which I believe was the intend with this model.
shysaursoft
Member
Welcome to the burden of "well, they should do it right". Unless you provide me an updated chart that actually does have the info you consider valid, there isn't really anything anyone can do with the information you know, is there?
But I'm guessing you're not really up for making a "fixed" chart?Welcome to the burden of "well, they should do it right". Unless you provide me an updated chart that actually does have the info you consider valid, there isn't really anything anyone can do with the information you know, is there?
Absolutely I'm up to it. But as Zeroth referenced, I would need to model every skill that's being used- which I do for my cleric warrior. Thus I could pop out a chart tonight showing effective power and health for a warrior using shout healing skills and traits- but that's not very useful is it?
One version of how you would make the chart would be to add new columns for several simulated meta builds. But it would hardly be exhaustive.
Are you actually interested in this information or are your merely trying to challenge me?
EDIT: Regardless, I will put out a better chart for shout healing warriors. If you'd then like me to make one for engineers or whatnot, we can work that out.
shysaursoft
Member
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across as confrontational - the reason I like the grid the guy made is beacuse it really is the first time I've seen the armour sets as anything other than annoying numbers that don't really mean anything to me. I even plugged them into a spreadsheet so I could see pretty graphs, because then I actually kind of "understand" it a bit more.
I've not taken a single math class since my second year of highschool. I can add and subtract, but I do not know the multiplication table. I've never had a head for numbers, and thus avoid them wherever possible. It might sound dumb to people who work with numbers all the time, but I yam what I yam.
I *would* actually appreciate a chart for Engineers, because I've been playing for two years, using only Celestial *everything*, because I *don't* know what armour to use. Sure, guides online say 'use Zerk, you stupid noob', but that doesn't really click with me *why*. "Moar Damage!" they say, sure, but what do you sacrifice? Health, I get - which is why I see Zerk-wearing people constantly getting one-shotted (except the ones that play damn well, of course, but those are an outlier). So I've avoided Zerk like the plague.
it wasn't until the guy's Effective Power and Effective Hitpoints chart that I started getting how the armours work a bit better. I'd love a more "live" spreadsheet where you can mix-and-match all the armour sets across all slots and trinkets.
In MMOs, and RPGS, the stats have always been, by far, the thing I dislike most. I'm the guy that uses "optimize" in jRPGS, even though that rarely gives me what I should be using, only what should keep me alive.
No worries. Those graphs are pretty, and the concept has great visual appeal: depicting the spectrum between offense and defense. The problems reside in how the OP defines defense (and offense for that matter). If his model was proper, then it wouldn't have all the condition and toughness sets clumped in the middle, cleric wouldn't have equal ratios of offense to defense, etc.
Obviously I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I'll scour the frame data for Smash. I'm buying a new stopwatch for MK8. You should see my color-coded spreadsheets for my fantasy sports drafts.
Speechless
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Hey guys I am sorry for my inactivity for the last week or so. I've been over worked. Last crazy day tomorrow, then back to play.
I hope we can schedule some dungeon path runs for those of us who wants to hunt achievements. Anyone interested? I need some help doing Arah path's for sure, but I also need at least 1 or 2 paths from most of the other dungeons.
I hope we can schedule some dungeon path runs for those of us who wants to hunt achievements. Anyone interested? I need some help doing Arah path's for sure, but I also need at least 1 or 2 paths from most of the other dungeons.
I saw the chart last week, and I agreed with his choice to not worry about Healing Power in crafting it.
1. The chart feels primarily set for PvE, and tangentially on your ability to survive a burst within 1 second or so.
2. The chart cannot include traits, runes, or sigils, which add lots of variables. Not to mention boons or conditions.
3. Healing Power's usefulness is highly variable based on the person using it and the situation they are in. A shout Warrior is one thing, but many other classes have animation or opportunity costs tied to their ability to heal themselves (e.g. Signet of Malice, Empower, etc.). All of this also adds onto the fact that Healing Power's usefulness generally occurs over time.
In the very same way, the chart cannot take into account many forms of dps boosts and the power scaling of certain abilities.
What I'm trying to get out here is not just, "This chart is useful, just watch out for cases where it doesn't hold up so well," because usually when people say that the information still has about an 80% or better usability rating. But in the case of this chart, I'd say its usability is closer to 50%. I'd use the chart primarily in cases where my build is filled with very few offensive variables or very few defensive variables, while the focus of my skill choices, traits, runes, sigils, boons, and conditions in my build are in the other direction.
1. The chart feels primarily set for PvE, and tangentially on your ability to survive a burst within 1 second or so.
2. The chart cannot include traits, runes, or sigils, which add lots of variables. Not to mention boons or conditions.
3. Healing Power's usefulness is highly variable based on the person using it and the situation they are in. A shout Warrior is one thing, but many other classes have animation or opportunity costs tied to their ability to heal themselves (e.g. Signet of Malice, Empower, etc.). All of this also adds onto the fact that Healing Power's usefulness generally occurs over time.
In the very same way, the chart cannot take into account many forms of dps boosts and the power scaling of certain abilities.
What I'm trying to get out here is not just, "This chart is useful, just watch out for cases where it doesn't hold up so well," because usually when people say that the information still has about an 80% or better usability rating. But in the case of this chart, I'd say its usability is closer to 50%. I'd use the chart primarily in cases where my build is filled with very few offensive variables or very few defensive variables, while the focus of my skill choices, traits, runes, sigils, boons, and conditions in my build are in the other direction.
im with miktar, i just go with higher numbers the best. only that im a diff branch, i can sort of bring what is to the table by comparing each set and then seeing if the numbers match.
but thats a pain in the ass, i end up having to go through some time of analizing it until im sure of whatever i am choosing as gear.
mixing up is not very good... it works ok, but... i make that so i can survive PVE very well. or balance ( like get valkyrie + knights so you can have power on the top vitality, toughness ferocity and precision in good terms, not optimal, you wont ditch loads of damage, but you will be well balanced. )
but thats a pain in the ass, i end up having to go through some time of analizing it until im sure of whatever i am choosing as gear.
mixing up is not very good... it works ok, but... i make that so i can survive PVE very well. or balance ( like get valkyrie + knights so you can have power on the top vitality, toughness ferocity and precision in good terms, not optimal, you wont ditch loads of damage, but you will be well balanced. )
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Decided to play again and see how things go...Played the past 2 days with no traits assigned. Woops.
aka Bueno.6309
Just started up again (I played for like 2 weeks at launch) and started fresh with an engineer, relearning the game. Having just played the Wildstar beta weekend, and then this the past couple days I feel right at home. The combat systems of both games are similar, and fun.
Just started up again (I played for like 2 weeks at launch) and started fresh with an engineer, relearning the game. Having just played the Wildstar beta weekend, and then this the past couple days I feel right at home. The combat systems of both games are similar, and fun.
Invite sent. Howdy, welcome, etc., etc.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I should really spend some Gems for expanding my bank
indigo-cyclops
Member
Just got the game. Don't know much about it but I'd like to see where it takes me. Would love an invite . Name is indigoo.3980
Zed got him earlier tonight.
Done, welcome aboard. Here's some beginners tips, feel free to ask any questions you may have in guild chat.
Kos Luftar
Member
Looks like majority is returning players. According to our friend the sale has done really well. I suggested they keep game at this price all the time.
Good to hear. I was actually thinking the same thing about the price. Seem to be a sweet spot for randoms to jump in who may have not had the interest prior due to the price.
^ Just returned myself, and trying to get a couple friends playing.
I've been jumping between classes, primarily Ranger, Ele, with some Mesmer and Necro, and I can never seem to pick a favorite. (my ranger is my only 80)
I'm curious, if anyone can help me out, what are the best PvP survivability builds across all classes? Who can run into a fight and have the highest chance of coming out alive, or staying alive the longest? I'm pretty lost atm on builds atm.
I've been jumping between classes, primarily Ranger, Ele, with some Mesmer and Necro, and I can never seem to pick a favorite. (my ranger is my only 80)
I'm curious, if anyone can help me out, what are the best PvP survivability builds across all classes? Who can run into a fight and have the highest chance of coming out alive, or staying alive the longest? I'm pretty lost atm on builds atm.
You get that Verizon mess straightened out? I didn't even know wny got fios.
shysaursoft
Member
It really boils down to what skills you take into the fight, or how you trait your profession. Almost every profession can load up to be bunker, some a bit more than others, but then you sacrifice damage. Engineers and Warriors, for example, can be made almost impossible to kill - but usually they can't do much in return other than keep a point or harass your orb carrier. I can't speak much for other professions though, I mostly play Engineer.
Using Rocket Boots, an Engineer can close gaps or escape (it breaks out of cripple, slow, and one more thing I forget what). Having Toolkit equipped lets you run in with Gear Shield (blocks all attacks for 3 seconds), you can use Prybar to slap heavy confusion on a single target (then they end up killing themselves, especially if they're a burst warrior), and so on. It's very situational, you're going to have to basically just keep playing and find what works for your playstyle. Putting a Soldiers/Knight trinket in your trinket slot will help too.
Complistic
Member
That feel when you solo a level 40 group event champ as a level 44 dagger/focus elementalist.
Some of you may recall I love to moan about necros and lack of easy stability (or at least the available methods don't appeal to me); I just realised that the new trait system allows me to take the necros-have-easy-stability trait whenever it's needed and then switch back. Hello fractals harpies!
I still have Vigour and condition damage against objects though, don't worry.
I still have Vigour and condition damage against objects though, don't worry.
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