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[PhoenixDark]

I agree with Esch to a degree but breh...I don't understand deading metaphorical/concept lyricism in rap while also saying you prefer to view rap like a form of folk music. But folk music has always been full of metaphorical lyricism. The thing I like about Kendrick is that he's a poetic writer. There are plenty of parts of the album that aren't really lyrically impressive from a pure rapping perspective, where he instead displays great songwriting or poetic techniques. And I definitely think his metaphor game is strong.

I'm a lyrics guy, and also a concept guy. I like seeing people play around with the structure of rap, either from a rhyme perspective (Ka) or conceptually. I know Nas has had some mis-steps when it comes to concepts but yo...Rewind is a dope song. I Gave You Power is dope. What Goes Around. One Mic. But then he has tracks like Project Roach which try to hard. But Nas, like Kendrick, is a natural storyteller and I think that's where his conceptual ambition comes from. He doesn't approach every record from a rappity rap perspective, which separates him from someone like J Cole who doesn't have a poetic bone in his body.

 

[enzo_gt]

Cole definitely is a storyteller and poetic. Shares a lot more with Nas than Kendrick when it comes to how he approaches rapping about concepts. Part of that is Cole is really heavily and obviously influenced by Nas, and it bleeds through everywhere. Kendrick is much more subtle.

EDIT: Furthermore, Cole isn't rappity rap at all. What? Par for course I guess when it comes to distorting reality around the Kendrick nucleus, I guess.

 

[Esch]

I agree with Esch to a degree but breh...I don't understand deading metaphorical/concept lyricism in rap

Who said I was deading it? Just a general preference don't get tight about it. I also prefer my folk music light on words words words poet shit too fyi.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Cole...Nas...nah. Obviously there's an influence there...just like there's an AZ influence on Eminem's Infinite album. :mjlol

Who said I was deading it? Just a general preference don't get tight about it. I also prefer my folk music light on words words words poet shit too fyi.

ahhhh ok. I see where you're coming from then. Naturally my view of folk music is similar to my view of (lyrical) rap. I fux with that shit.

 

[HiResDes]

Cole lacks romanticism and imagination, he's a poet in the same fashion that Hallmark writers are poets.

 

[enzo_gt]

Cole lacks romanticism and imagination, he's a poet in the same fashion that Hallmark writers are poets.

Damn, this is actually a really good way to describe Cole.

 

[Courage]

I'd say Cole is a storyteller and can spit, but unlike Nas, he has a very insular worldview and delves into a narrow list of topics with very uninteresting perspectives.

So yeah, you can probably call him a 'poet' just not a very good one.

 

[enzo_gt]

I'd say Cole is a storyteller and can spit, but unlike Nas, he has a very insular worldview and delves into a narrow list of topics with very uninteresting perspectives.

So yeah, you can probably call him a 'poet' just not a very good one.

Pretty much this.

Nas has the advantage of age, and Cole has the disadvantage of not being very thought provoking a lot of the time and cutting into autopilot rapper bragging/hater defense mode in songs randomly. Cole has his moments though.

 

[Courage]

Well, considering Nas was 20 when he put out Illmatic, I don't think it has anything to do with age. People are either talented at it or not; it's a matter of life experiences and genetics.

J Cole just doesn't have it in him, despite his success.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Pretty much this.

Nas has the advantage of age, and Cole has the disadvantage of not being very thought provoking a lot of the time and cutting into autopilot rapper bragging/hater defense mode in songs. Cole has his moments though.

Age? Nas wrote One Love when he was 20. I'm not shitting on Cole, I think he's a "good" rapper. He's just not a poetic or introspective rapper like Nas or Kendrick. He's a very conventional rapper, and his first albums felt more calculated than honest. He's even admitted he dropped the ball on both. His third album has more emotion yet still isn't thought provoking to me overall.

Cole still feels like someone living in the shadows of others. He's still checking off a list he wrote when he was a 14 year old rap stan. He wants to be a legend so bad yet hasn't done anything to warrant it. Having a "5 year anniversary" celebration for a fucking mixtape just strikes me as laughable.

 

[enzo_gt]

Well, considering Nas was 20 when he put out Illmatic, I don't think it has anything to do with age. People are either talented at it or not; it's a matter of life experiences and genetics.

J Cole just doesn't have it in him, despite his success.

I was referring to the point about perspectives being insular. I don't really lump Illmatic as a sort of unique perspective, despite the picture Nas painting when he broke out being arguably one of the most vivid ever in the genre. Actually that in itself might make it unique.

As Nas has grown and even across his last few albums he's opened up to a lot different struggles he faces as an adult and father without confounding that with fame, success, etc. and losing the relatability that people like Jay and Kanye get criticized for. He's experienced polar opposites of life in a way Cole hasn't, I guess. That makes it hard to relate to Cole even if I might be closer to his middle class upbringing.

 

[Courage]

I was referring to the point about perspectives being insular. I don't really lump Illmatic as a sort of unique perspective, despite the picture Nas painting when he broke out being arguably one of the most vivid ever in the genre. Actually that in itself might make it unique.

As Nas has grown and even across his last few albums he's opened up to a lot different struggles he faces as an adult and father without confounding that with fame, success, etc. and losing the relatability that people like Jay and Kanye get criticized for. He's experienced polar opposites of life in a way Cole hasn't, I guess. That makes it hard to relate to Cole even if I might be closer to his middle class upbringing.

The picture painting is part of poetry. Being able to depict situations and ideas so effectively and having it resonate with your listener.

But even then, I think Nas' approaches to rapping was, and probably is, better than most. The way he describes the fast life in NY State Of Mind, the reflective Life's A Bitch, the nostalgic and retrospective 'Memory Lane', the roughneck anthem in 'Represent'.

And that's just looking at the conceptual variety from a surface level without any further analysis into these songs. You just don't see that poetic depth from Cole, especially not in his debut. It's why Cole will continue to stagnate and never reach a prime in his career because he'll be consistently bland and milquetoast throughout it.

 

[Fjordson]

Cole lacks romanticism and imagination, he's a poet in the same fashion that Hallmark writers are poets.

Whoa. Harsh, but accurate.

 

[BlackJace]

After re-listening to Juicy J's old tapes, I gotta say,
the dude has the same fucking flow/raps about the same things in everyone of his songs, but I still like him a lot, dunno why.

 

[Courage]

Can't wait to hear Gibbs' 'Only One' on a trap beat.

 

[overcast]

"Uh it's baby gibbs hoe"

 

[enzo_gt]

Baby Fathering Killa

 

[Emperor Bohe]

ayo this bee wee do da la be so ha meow ayo can of campells bruuuuuuuuh bam son damn got samn killa cam ham mam pull a lam ram HEET OAKS

 

[PhoenixDark]

Grats to Gibbs. Shame not enough of the melanin passed to the seed.

 

[cb1115]

ayo this bee wee do da la be so ha meow ayo can of campells bruuuuuuuuh bam son damn got samn killa cam ham mam pull a lam ram HEET OAKS

 

[overcast]

Danny got his Braids back.

Rap game gonna get fucked up brehs.

 

[Syph Medwes]

Danny got his Braids back.

Rap game gonna get fucked up brehs.

that instagram page tho

 

[wenis]

Grats to Gibbs. Shame not enough of the melanin passed to the seed.

Give it a couple months. Some babies don't get heir true pigmentation for months. Even years. I was a light skinned child as well and got darker as I grew.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Give it a couple months. Some babies don't get heir true pigmentation for months. Even years. I was a light skinned child as well and got darker as I grew.

Good to hear there's hope. Congratulations breh.

 

[CRS]

lmao

 

[codhand]

Lol

 

[Tokubetsu]

=/

 

[Discotheque]

this blatant prejudice against light-skinned is reprehensible

 

[Storm Chamber]

I'm a lyrics guy, and also a concept guy.

So you agree T&Y is better than TPAB, yes?

 

[Syph Medwes]

So you agree T&Y is better than TPAB, yes?

oh you

 

[PBY]

BARTWR 6 HAS MORE DEPTH THAN TPAB DONT KID YALLSELVES

 

[CountBlack]

#Positivity2k15

 

[Syph Medwes]

#Positivity2k15

i been a1 since day 1 yall ninjas boo boo

 

[Stat Flow]

Yo whatup GAFHop. My cousin and I just posted one of our own tracks up and we'd like to know what ya'll think!

https://soundcloud.com/hiphoptheory/noir (or hiphoptheory.bandcamp.com)

 

[Vaudeville Villain]

Edit: whoops

 

[PhoenixDark]

#Positivity2k15

#TheShift

good to see some loyalty. I'm no Wayne fan but that's how a hometown should defend their legend.

 

[Complex Shadow]

So you agree T&Y is better than TPAB, yes?

scust

 

[Storm Chamber]

Be

'd by grating voices, surface level social commentary, godawful interludes, and cringeworthy fake interviews brehs

 

[Snuggles]

that feel when

 

[enzo_gt]

Be

'd by grating voices, surface level social commentary, godawful interludes, and cringeworthy fake interviews brehs

 

[Esch]

T&Y

 

[overcast]

Be

'd by grating voices, surface level social commentary, godawful interludes, and cringeworthy fake interviews brehs

Wait a fucking second. Not on my time. Not on my time.

Storm out here bumping Mural tho, talkin about surface level.

 

[CRS]

Prolly late to this but the E-40 track from the Welcome to Los Santos tape is amazing. So fucking good.

 

[Storm Chamber]

Wait a fucking second. Not on my time. Not on my time.

Storm out here bumping Mural tho, talkin about surface level.

TDE outchea smelling like shotguns and deer piss

Prolly late to this but the E-40 track from the Welcome to Los Santos tape is amazing. So fucking good.

It really is. I love that beat and 40's still 40.

 

[WanderingWind]

It's both. It's all pretty well nuanced, but because of some of the language and Kendrick's attempts to create enjoyable songs it can all be easily passed over or misinterpreted like Swimming Pools on his last album. I just don't get the whole attempt to downplay its successes and make it seem like it's only good inside of this little bubble. Like I get you're the resident dusty dude, but the greatness of the afro centric albums in the past doesn't diminish the greatness of Kendrick. It's nearly impossible to reinvent the wheel every time. I like how Kendrick's musical choices also play a part in reinforcing the albums concept. I really think it works well when listened to as a whole. It offers this little glimpse into black history and how the culture has influenced and sculpted American music over time.

Who's downplaying its success? You say the bubble is little, but it's not. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and the fact that you and PD both say it helps to be in the bubble to enjoy it means you understand there is a space for the album. It's not a universal thing and I don't really understand why you and other fans of the album view this as a negative, but still manage to say it's part and parcel of the overall experience.

It's got nothing to do with me being old, except that maybe I have seen this scenario play out over and over again. You're right in that it doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, but that's the point, isn't? I don't deny its a successful album despite my general disinterest in it, but I do deny that it reinvented the wheel or that it's some subtle, hard to grasp album. I'm not on some "fuck Kendrick" shit.

He's undeniably talented, but stuff like For Free, the interview that would have made Game circa 2009 cringe his butterfly tat off his face and the really stupid hooks like "Shit don't change until you get up and wash your ass" aren't anything I'd see people glossing over with any other artist while giving their album perfect 10s. I just don't see the album as being all that. But considering I have the GKMC vinyl hanging on my wall as one of favorite albums of all time, I'm not even mad at his success with TPAB. I welcome it and I still look forward to what he comes up with next.

 

[Rastafarian42]

Prolly late to this but the E-40 track from the Welcome to Los Santos tape is amazing. So fucking good.

yeah this is dope how is the tape ?

 

[IrishNinja]

Remark gone lmao

RIP

injurais too, at least that was self inflicted
poor remakrs, no one supported his dude thugger neither

Nobody criticized TPAB for not having trap drums or shit. Didn't happen once. Get out of your own asses, straight up. That's part of the reason why it's hard to take people championing the album seriously, every PD post reeks of self-fulfilling prophecy.

so you think ambition alone doesn't make an album interesting then
it's almost like there's a meta-commentary here about MBDTF but don't mind me

Cole definitely is a storyteller and poetic. Shares a lot more with Nas than Kendrick when it comes to how he approaches rapping about concepts. Part of that is Cole is really heavily and obviously influenced by Nas, and it bleeds through everywhere. Kendrick is much more subtle.

others addressed this as well, but: as a fan of storyteller rap, shit's tricky. anyone at the barber shop/family reunion can and will tell stories that no one gives a fuck about...from Slick Rick to Biggie, if you're not charismatic/sounding a little worldly/traveled i don't care. this is like Esh's main knock on KRIT and i didn't catch it as much till the last album...Cole could be talkin about how he grew up in a shrine in peru and it's gonna strike me like he read the wiki article. even if i somehow bought it, i just don't care.

So you agree T&Y is better than TPAB, yes?

BARTWR 6 HAS MORE DEPTH THAN TPAB DONT KID YALLSELVES

#garbageseason #positivity2k15 tho

 

[Nibel]

Being butthurt about young King Kendrick and him breaking the barriers of rap music, brehs

 

[Black Republican]

i do hate how nearly every rap song commercially sounds like trap beats though(and i love trap beats by artists who actually ride them well eg TI etc), commercially when did this start? around 2011?

 

[overcast]

Eh trap influenced rap really started back in '04 when Kanye dropped "The College Dropout".