Gwent - Open Beta Thread: Not bad, not bad at all

I really like Gwent but last night legitimately made me want to never play again. Couple nights ago I'd been having some success with Nilfgard after struggling to find my feet in the current patch. I managed to get my mmr back to where it should be for my rank.

Before playing last night I was playing Spies with Assassinate in my deck so I crafted Letho (to replace Assassinate) and swapped shackles out for D Bomb, objectively only improving the deck. I started last night feeling optimistic about making progress to the next rank. Lost 6 of 8 games. Tanked my mmr and the icing on the cake was hitting level 20 and getting Royal Decree. As soon as it came up said out loud to myself "oh fuck off" and just turned my PC off. It's the saltiest I've felt about a game in years.
 
Well I went 1-8 tonight, I'm fucking done, and this shit hole game can go down with it for consistently pairing me against higher ranked opponents.

yay I'm at 1800 now.... such a fun game 1-9
 
Interesting interview with Lifecoach here

http://www.gwentdb.com/articles/121-lifecoach-discusses-gwent-esports-being-a

You had a good relationship with Hearthstone developers when it came to giving feedback on the game, do you have a similar relationship with CD Projekt Red? What is your opinion on the development team and the direction they're taking Gwent in?

I think my relationship with the Gwent developers right now is better and more intense than it ever was with the Hearthstone developers. As a matter of fact my relationship with the Hearthstone developers was never truly that intense. It was always nice working with them, that was never a problem, but they ignored most of my suggestions regarding the game, and I got the idea that my opinions were undervalued. After my last visit to Blizzard I think it became fairly clear that it would also be my only visit there [laughs].

I think CD Projekt Red is completely different in this regard, I visited the headquarters a bit by surprise, and when I got there they immediately took everything very seriously and treated me in a very professional manner. We were able to discuss many issues regarding the game design and we were able to create an environment where we could really work and implement many ideas and changes. I think they’re very open to criticism and very willing and able to change things. I think my relationship with them is very positive and not only will we work together trying to make the game better and more balanced but also I think they understand the bigger picture and we both want simply to make Gwent bigger and better in general.

Our interests are basically the same, simply because that’s what I do at the moment, I’m playing Gwent a lot and it being better is positive for both parties.

I’d like to know your opinion mostly on the huge balance changes with Gwent from the closed beta phase to the Open beta. Do you feel they were needed? Which version of the game do you think is healthier overall?

Honestly I preferred the game more in Closed Beta. I believe the factions had more character, I miss the faction abilities and the passives. I do understand that maybe it would restrict the design space in the future so the changes they made were necessary. I believe the weather for example could be made much better, I think the weather effects now should only affect the units after their turn, because right now weather clear is simply not effective enough. If your opponent doesn’t have a way to clear the damage, then it is effectively the same as it is now, but if he does then he doesn’t take the damage, and why should he, if he has the direct counter to weather in his deck. You provide a question, and if the opponent can provide the right answer then he shouldn’t be punished, that’s how it should be in my opinion, and it also makes Axemen much too strong right now.

What is your opinion on the most recent patch? Do you feel the developers did a good job of balancing the game?

I think some things were probably overlooked, some changes that reduced mechanics which should be there. I believe Ciri, who got nerfed to 5 strength, is a card that is very important for the game, it’s important to have her around, not as an auto-include but she should at least have six strength in my opinion. I also think weather is still quite broken, it’s very prevalent, and Skellige is also a bit overpowered, specifically also these nasty Axemen since there aren’t any real counters to weather. I think the previous patches have been really great, but I have been really disappointed with this one.
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He talks about the meta later on too and isn't too happy with it.
 
My biggest issue with the development of the game has been the removal of mechanics that swarm as many units on the board as possible. Monster nest from just a straight up exponential increase to only spawning 3 units to now just spawning a single necrophage or insectoid unit, the removal of margaritas mechanic alongside gold mechanics (that much at least is understandable), and the removal of the entire Neophyte swarm archetype.

Beyond that, I liked my fun gimmicky decks when they existed too. Back when Udalryk could randomly take ANY opponents card from their graveyard combined with the creativity that Operator working on silvers used to give allowing you to use multiple Udalryks to try to fish for Kambi's Hemdall spawn. Think the most I used Hemdall in a single match was like 3 times back when that deck was a thing.
 
the old version was more asymmetrical, so it didn't need to be perfectly balanced

now they are trying to reign in the spread between all the possible builds, so if they screw up the balance even slightly it's just going to be miserable
 
StMeph said:
The salt isn't real until you've put a sword through a sofa and threatened a UPS driver.
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hey i understood that
TheSadRanger said:
OH YEAH 1-12 SUCH A FUN GAME, I WANT TO STAB MY EYES OUT
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My man, I know your frustration. Trust me, if there's one person who truly does know how you feel, it's me. I really do think that you should stop playing for now; give a few hours and come back. It'll help, I promise you.
 
Yoshichan said:
hey i understood that

My man, I know your frustration. Trust me, if there's one person who truly does know how you feel, it's me. I really do think that you should stop playing for now; give a few hours and come back. It'll help, I promise you.
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I'M NOW AT 1600 RP SUCH A FUN GAME.

I'm done.....Other people are better at this game than me and I'm just garbage.

I guess I just suck
 
TheSadRanger said:
I'M NOW AT 1600 RP SUCH A FUN GAME.

I'm done.....Other people are better at this game than me and I'm just garbage.

I guess I just suck
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Then you'll have 10w-streak, TRUST ME, I know. Better off waiting for the patch (if it's SK you're mostly having issues with).
 
TheSadRanger said:
I'm fine:p

Just tired of losing and maybe I am a piece of shit :)
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catpawposting.jpg
 
waxinlyrical said:
Yes, all of those things are true. All of the advice I gave you on how to beat them also remains true.

Without going into full-blown rant mode: I understand your frustration with playing against that seemingly unbeatable deck. Let me assure you that the deck is not unbeatable, in fact the consensus among the higher ranked players is that the deck, while clearly still strong, is not among the top tier of competitive decks. You can beat them in 1 of 2 ways, a: teching in cards that are targeted specifically against them (e.g. Regis Higher Vampire), or b: playing better with the cards you do have.

Understandably b) is of course much harder, and often has lower effect. a) is much easier, but you do so at the risk of now being weaker to other decks. That's the way it should be in a healthy metagame. You could argue we aren't in one; that there are very dominant decks that have no real counter, and that might be true, but as I mentioned above, the general consensus seems to be that Socia'spell and its variants are not such a deck.
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Oh no, to clarify, Im not calling it super OP or asking for a change. Truth is, my deck is designed specifically enough that I understand its going to sometimes get run amok by certain other types.

Ive beat them before, but I feel like those were weak copycat players.

I actually miss old SC with its traps.... I really wish theyd bring cards like those back. One trap blocked a special.
 
well the spell ST deck is pure cancer so they should probably nerf it into oblivion regardless if it's overpowered or not. Kind of like how Blizzard finally nerfed Frost mage after a very long time. Some decks just shouldn't be allowed to be a thing.
 
I've found I enjoy it a lot more when playing casual rather than ranked. I got to rank 10 and the game was really frustrating me especially games where I'd lose by 1 or 2. Went back to casual and I'm having a great time again.
 
Casual has way more deck variance in my experience, obviously because people use it to try out different decks without tanking their MMR. It is more fun than ranked this patch.
 
https://www.twitch.tv/gwentlemen

Rethaz from CDPR is on this podcast right now, will be a VOD up later I think.

Anyway it doesn't sound like they're happy with the meta and SK in particular, currently play testing some changes with that faction. They want to make the next patch more diverse. Weather is something they're looking at reducing the power of because it's not fun to play against, especially for newer players who they see give up early on the game because of it.
 
I'm sure there will be several more changes throughout the beta so I'd recommend everyone to sit on their cards and not mill them. Wait until the next change and mill them if they get nerfed.

I'm currently sitting on over 150 duplicate cards.
 
Hrmmm, was listening to gwentleman about the suggestion of new cards. One idea I kind of had was.

Keira Metz: Gavella Glan

4: Strength
Shields all units on a row from weather effects


Now this works perfectly in lore since it's the shield spell that Keira uses in TW3 to shield Geralt from the white frost on a quest.

edit: But yeah, I lost 400 RP last night ;_; feelsbadman.
 
Some of you guys get way too salty over this, Jesus. Posting a bunch in a row about how this game is shit and you keep losing is an obvious sign to take a break.
 
Regardless, they certainly have all rights to voice their thoughts on the state of the game... its posts like theirs which makes the thread somewhat entertaining ;p

Yes, there are days when it's just a losing streak .. but it's moments like those when one closely examines why? The current meta is far from perfect, but it can and should be improved on. I have to roll my eyes when it gets to yoshichan levels of hyperbole, but people should be free to call out it as they see it.
 
Stalwart said:
Some of you guys get way too salty over this, Jesus. Posting a bunch in a row about how this game is shit and you keep losing is an obvious sign to take a break.
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Haha I get a bit overboard but ranking is harder now in mid rankings. You get on a losing streak and it's much tougher to climb out than before.

It's not like high elo where you lose 12 RP on a loss when you have 3-4k RP and your just "well whatever".

Losing 50+ RP at rank 12 freaking hurts when your only around 2k RP.

I don't know why the game is more punishing towards players at low-mid level than it is at the extreme high end. When it reality it should be the other way around.

Yeah people at 3k+ RP don't earn much from winning but they don't really lose anything either.
 
TheSadRanger said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsOFUnKKFqw

Pretty interesting vid where a streamer found that Dandelion shows your exact draw order of non-special non gold cards.
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This is a big deal. Not sure if that is intended or not, but as is the card basically lets you view your virtually your entire deck IN ORDER and allow you to selectively apply that info to knowing what cards you're gonna get that game.

Pretty insane knowledge it gives you.
 
TheSadRanger said:
Haha I get a bit overboard but ranking is harder now in mid rankings. You get on a losing streak and it's much tougher to climb out than before.

It's not like high elo where you lose 12 RP on a loss when you have 3-4k RP and your just "well whatever".

Losing 50+ RP at rank 12 freaking hurts when your only around 2k RP.

I don't know why the game is more punishing towards players at low-mid level than it is at the extreme high end. When it reality it should be the other way around.

Yeah people at 3k+ RP don't earn much from winning but they don't really lose anything either.
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As far as I can tell, what you're seeing right now is intended. The system is trying to be more fluid at lower ranks (i.e. higher gain/losses of MMR) to 1. Get you to your "correct" rank quicker, and 2. make it easier for you to climb the lower ranks.
 
frontovik said:
Regardless, they certainly have all rights to voice their thoughts on the state of the game... its posts like theirs which makes the thread somewhat entertaining ;p

Yes, there are days when it's just a losing streak .. but it's moments like those when one closely examines why? The current meta is far from perfect, but it can and should be improved on. I have to roll my eyes when it gets to yoshichan levels of hyperbole, but people should be free to call out it as they see it.
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Well one of the devs acknowledged some of the balance issues in the latest gwentleman stream.

He said that the devs are not happy with current meta. That weather is still too oppressive and gives way too much value. He gave hound of the wild hunt as an example.

I would expect the changes to come soon as well because he hinted that the games player retention is not good at the moment. He basically said "We need to make these changes or you won't have anyone to play against"
 
They changed the base strength interaction with Maerdrome, but not in a way that makes sense (to me anyway!)

I have a base 2 strength Axeman, boosted to 6 strength. Opponent does negative Maerdrome on it.

In closed beta:
Axeman goes to 0 base strength, stays on board at 4 green strength. Gets banished when it dies due to round end etc.

In open beta:
Axeman goes to 0 base strength, gets banished immediately.

I lost a match because of this :( I pride myself as a somewhat informed player but I didn't know this change occurred.
tears.gif


Edit: What I think *should happen* is: Axeman goes to -1 base strength, stays on board at 3 green strength, gets banished when it dies due to round end etc.
 
waxinlyrical said:
They changed the base strength interaction with Maerdrome, but not in a way that makes sense (to me anyway!)

I have a base 2 strength Axeman, boosted to 6 strength. Opponent does negative Maerdrome on it.

In closed beta:
Axeman goes to 0 base strength, stays on board at 4 green strength. Gets banished when it dies due to round end etc.

In open beta:
Axeman goes to 0 base strength, gets banished immediately.

I lost a match because of this :( I pride myself as a somewhat informed player but I didn't know this change occurred.
tears.gif


Edit: What I think *should happen* is: Axeman goes to -1 base strength, stays on board at 3 green strength, gets banished when it dies due to round end etc.
Click to expand...

It says on the card that it will reset the card to base value then damage by 3. Even if a card is not boosted and its original value is 3, it will die if you use it

Also been playing a movement deck and it is a LOT of fun, but I think some units need armor as they have very little health and easily killed before you can move them
 
waxinlyrical said:
They changed the base strength interaction with Maerdrome, but not in a way that makes sense (to me anyway!)

I have a base 2 strength Axeman, boosted to 6 strength. Opponent does negative Maerdrome on it.

In closed beta:
Axeman goes to 0 base strength, stays on board at 4 green strength. Gets banished when it dies due to round end etc.

In open beta:
Axeman goes to 0 base strength, gets banished immediately.

I lost a match because of this :( I pride myself as a somewhat informed player but I didn't know this change occurred.
tears.gif


Edit: What I think *should happen* is: Axeman goes to -1 base strength, stays on board at 3 green strength, gets banished when it dies due to round end etc.
Click to expand...
TBF there are way too many buffed units that Maerdrome with former properties would have been a useless card... back then we had lots of revivers/roach etc. that made sense to have a Maerdrome with those properties at the time.

I think that, unlike weather, it was a good change for the health/balance of the game, esp. considering the changes done to shackle (locking mechanic as opposed to base str'ing)


Still it has its drawbacks and you don't see it in most decks, like when playing vs. a non-axemen SK or a couple of other decks it's pretty weak.
 
Naar said:
It says on the card that it will reset the card to base value then damage by 3. Even if a card is not boosted and its original value is 3, it will die if you use it

Also been playing a movement deck and it is a LOT of fun, but I think some units need armor as they have very little health and easily killed before you can move them
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You're right, I'm an idiot :( I forgot Maerdrome had the reset functionality now.
 
waxinlyrical said:
As far as I can tell, what you're seeing right now is intended. The system is trying to be more fluid at lower ranks (i.e. higher gain/losses of MMR) to 1. Get you to your "correct" rank quicker, and 2. make it easier for you to climb the lower ranks.
Click to expand...

Yeah but at the same time, I'm rank 12. After losses I'm now at 1600 RP.

There's literally zero reason for me to play ranked at this point. It's just not worth it. It's too difficult to gain it back with the current meta.

You can't have a ranked system that discourages people from playing it and have it be successful.
 
TheSadRanger said:
Yeah but at the same time, I'm rank 12. After losses I'm now at 1600 RP.

There's literally zero reason for me to play ranked at this point. It's just not worth it. It's too difficult to gain it back with the current meta.

You can't have a ranked system that discourages people from playing it and have it be successful.
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Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe your "true" MMR is where you are right now, as opposed to where you were before, and thus the system is working exactly as intended?
 
TheSadRanger said:
Yeah but at the same time, I'm rank 12. After losses I'm now at 1600 RP.

There's literally zero reason for me to play ranked at this point. It's just not worth it. It's too difficult to gain it back with the current meta.

You can't have a ranked system that discourages people from playing it and have it be successful.
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I'm at rank 11 and usually I gain as much as I lose in most matches.
It's easy to advance: you only have to win more games than you lose.
 
waxinlyrical said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe your "true" MMR is where you are right now, as opposed to where you were before, and thus the system is working exactly as intended?
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Huh?? Dude I placed at rank 5 when I hit lvl 10 and worked my ass off to reach rank 12.

I'm lvl 31 now, so don't treat me with backhanded comment bs when I address fundamental issues with the new ranking system.

I gained more RP per win than loss, now it's 1:1 or even sometimes less. Even HS gave a buffer if you got on a WS, with gwent there is no buffer and with the current meta and fundamental issues with the game it's terrible.

edit: if they want their little exclusive card game club with 1k players than they can have it.
 
Yea I'm done, the options that are given to you are too limited due to the games fundamental design of it's "1 card played per turn" mechanic.

It just becomes a game of battleship or 5 card draw poker where it's not very fun in it's current meta.

For me personally, I like having multiple options late in the game like MTG or HS.

I can at least make plays, where with gwent it's just "let's see what I draw and hope it turns out".

The amount of plays you can do are sooo much more limited due to it's 1 card played per turn mechanic, it's especially exaggerated with it's passing and best of 3. It's the vice versa of most card games where most of the action in gwent typically happens in early game, and there's not much strategy involved in it. It's a guessing game.

I don't feel outplayed when I lose, yet I rarely feel like I outplayed my opponent when I do win.
 
Round 3 coming down to who can topdeck the best happens way too often. It's a big reason some cards like Grave Hag and the Witchers are getting played now when before they were nowhere to be seen, I think people have caught onto the fact that in a Hjalmer and Tibor world, you need something to topdeck that can turn into 20+ points. It's a bit dumb but not a massive problem right now.
 
TheSadRanger said:
Yea I'm done, the options that are given to you are too limited due to the games fundamental design of it's "1 card played per turn" mechanic.

It just becomes a game of battleship or 5 card draw poker where it's not very fun in it's current meta.

For me personally, I like having multiple options late in the game like MTG or HS.

I can at least make plays, where with gwent it's just "let's see what I draw and hope it turns out".

The amount of plays you can do are sooo much more limited due to it's 1 card played per turn mechanic, it's especially exaggerated with it's passing and best of 3. It's the vice versa of most card games where most of the action in gwent typically happens in early game, and there's not much strategy involved in it. It's a guessing game.

I don't feel outplayed when I lose, yet I rarely feel like I outplayed my opponent when I do win.
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Even if you don't feel like it, you're almost certainly playing the game wrong, and blaming the game for it.
 
TheSadRanger said:
Yea I'm done, the options that are given to you are too limited due to the games fundamental design of it's "1 card played per turn" mechanic.
.
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I dont feel it limited at all. Dont know what faction you playing, but im playing Monsters and feel i have a huge variety of tools that can work and i can counter multiple decks. Right now only having real trouble against NR machies as its very OP against monsters. Against other factions when i lose i just feel i could have done better and if i start losing alot i just make 1 or 2 changes in my deck to counter a situation i see its happening often, and that brings me back.

Im not a veteran player, i just started playing in the open beta. Reached yesterday rank 13 and im now overing between 2000 and 2400 mmr.

If anything this game makes me want to try build and experiment other factions and other decks. If you get too atached to the same deck you dont go far. ppl will find counters to popular decks. Right now the most popular in my rank is by far the Skelliga bears and axemans, so i just made some changes in my deck to counter them a little better, and its been working nice.
 
TheSadRanger said:
I'M NOW AT 1600 RP SUCH A FUN GAME.

I'm done.....Other people are better at this game than me and I'm just garbage.

I guess I just suck
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Friend, I can't even get to 600 RP in Rank with my weather deck. I have to play 6 matches sometimes to get 6 wins for daily in casual.

Trust me. You're a much better player then alot of other players out there.
 
Streamers fucking hate this game right now haha

I hope they have the patch ready to go back at the most, late next week.
 
TheSadRanger said:
Huh?? Dude I placed at rank 5 when I hit lvl 10 and worked my ass off to reach rank 12.

I'm lvl 31 now, so don't treat me with backhanded comment bs when I address fundamental issues with the new ranking system.

I gained more RP per win than loss, now it's 1:1 or even sometimes less. Even HS gave a buffer if you got on a WS, with gwent there is no buffer and with the current meta and fundamental issues with the game it's terrible.

edit: if they want their little exclusive card game club with 1k players than they can have it.
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Dude, so much salt. And the funny thing is, I still don't know what 'fundamental issues' there are with the ranking system.
 
Zemm said:
Round 3 coming down to who can topdeck the best happens way too often. It's a big reason some cards like Grave Hag and the Witchers are getting played now when before they were nowhere to be seen, I think people have caught onto the fact that in a Hjalmer and Tibor world, you need something to topdeck that can turn into 20+ points. It's a bit dumb but not a massive problem right now.
Click to expand...

I've seen this but I think it's just playstyle, a lot of people when they win round 1 get greedy in round 2 and bleed the opponent of cards and then basically make it a topdeck war. I only like doing that if I already see I have a strong combo instead of hoping I topdeck it. That said, the opponent can't do much about it if they get put in this position so that's why a push at the start is important. It doesn't bother me much since there's a lot of things happening within the match that cause something like this to happen.

I will say Shieldmaiden's are fuckin' dumb and I think by far the worst offender in Skellige now. They're way, way too good on round 3 for bronzes.
 
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