Well yeah but Hail Hydra is just referencing Heil Hitler so it seems redundant to compare Hail Trump to Hail Hydra when Hail Hydra is just referencing Heil Hitler. Also Hydra is fictional so it kinda makes light of the fact we have actual Nazis running around.
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'Hail Trump!': White Nationalists Salute the President Elect
- Thread starter Dalek
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Well yeah but Hail Hydra is just referencing Heil Hitler so it seems redundant to compare Hail Trump to Hail Hydra when Hail Hydra is just referencing Heil Hitler. Also Hydra is fictional so it kinda makes light of the fact we have actual Nazis running around.
I am reminded, fairly regularly now, of all those times in the past Americans have mockingly disparaged Germany's ban on Nazi symbolism, or have quailed at the thought of Holocaust denial being banned, because the banning of such was an attack on "free speech".
Well this is where that road has lead. The open adoption and support of Nazi symbolism and Nazi policies.
If you give Nazis the oxygen of publicity it does not dim them, they burn brighter. If you expose Nazis to the daylight of open debate it does not burn them, it lets them grow and spread. Fascism is not something to be understood, argued, or reasoned with. Fascism must be fought.
Well this is where that road has lead. The open adoption and support of Nazi symbolism and Nazi policies.
If you give Nazis the oxygen of publicity it does not dim them, they burn brighter. If you expose Nazis to the daylight of open debate it does not burn them, it lets them grow and spread. Fascism is not something to be understood, argued, or reasoned with. Fascism must be fought.
Chuckie
Member
The hail Hydra meme was already going on before the actual hail Trump happened I think. It has become a bit redundant though.
The joke was Trump and his associates resembled an evil secret nazi organization. The reality has become more absurd than the joke when there are real nazis supporting him and shouting Hail Trump
Django.Mango
Member
Its the same pattern as we have in germany (and probably in other countries) with our neonazis. Relativising to keep their reputation in politics on a serious level, while sympathising and beeing supported with/by dumb lemmings even in militant groups.
KurtSloane
Banned
I am trying to be nice ..... I dont believe any of that shit ... I am only trying to understand how some of these people think!
Please try and understand when I tell you I agree with equality for all.
But there has been a perception by some that when they hear that white people have privilege ..... ok they might not be vicitmised by their colour of skin by police but they still get mudered by them, they still live in poverty etc and so on.
Of course minorites deal with that and more ..... but still when these people are down and out they will be looking to survive, not hear they are privileged and have it good, they are looking out for themselves.
The messaging of the left in how it has been put out there by some has only helped turn some of these people away. That is what I have been trying to say, I didnt read any garbage, so maybe less condescension. You might not agree and thats fair enough.
Django.Mango
Member
Nope, still not neo-nazis. Just an unfortunate photograph of a singular moment.
Is this still freedom of speech? Can you question if jews are human without consequences in usa?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yes it's still freedom of speech. There are no consequences from the government. If everything worked like some people's forefathers envisioned, the people would have kept speech like this in check. But America dived head first into the "all views deserve equal consideration and a platform."
ThePrequelsSuck
Banned
Most of them claim he's an FBI agent or controlled opposition, lel
Django.Mango
Member
Ok, thanks for the info. Do you think the freedom of speech is cut huge when you forbid that racist, homophobe damgogues can pray their misanthropic hate?
Mighty Chin
Banned
I woke up 2 hrs early in disbelief that this is actually happening.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Problem is I don't trust our government when it comes to limiting speech. Example being our new incoming administration would be less about curbing sexist/homophobic/racist speech and would be more about curbing everyone speaking out against them.
Our conservative party are way too powerful to start allowing the government to trample over freedom of speech, it would be abused immediately much like pretty much every right we've walked back on.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Am I too late to say Hail Hydra?
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Can we also put the idea to rest that they said "Hail" and not literally the German "Heil"?
Cause that's what they say. And yes, there is a difference.
Cause that's what they say. And yes, there is a difference.
Django.Mango
Member
Yes i can understand this, its a very sensible fundamental right that can easily be abused. But on the other side, can it be a free ticket to praise hatred and spread evil ideologies?
You cant change fundamental rights like maybe traffic laws or something, but there must be a possibility to get a consensus in a nation to restrict a right in a way to preserve people from abusing this hard fought fundamental right.
Especially since America already did this, with the Irish, Polish,etc ...
Angelus Errare
Banned
I'd love to take a Germany approach and flat out ban Nazi talk even coded. But when you open that door you can never close it again. Other groups and interest will want certain speech banned. When 1/2 of the voting population believe in flat out lies such a changing of a right no matter how small can be abused.
Example, if Trump said blacks were organizing to kill white people under the guise of BLM; news networks would "debate" it which normalizes that lie and in turn make it "truth" to the conservatives. Then a vote would be cast, should be curb BLM type movements? And boom, we now have a ban on that. And the reason for that is that moderate America doesn't care enough to stop such. They believe in the system so fully and blindly that they would never fight or vote against it (or vote at all).
YuriLowell
Member
boiled goose
good with gravy
This is unreal..
E-Cat
Member
Don't worry; they specifically said 'peaceful' ethnic cleansing.
Welcome to the club, born and raised hippie.. Third and generation from a commune. And even I realized that the battle lines have been drawn. Those that choose to be with the KKK marches and the NAZI marches (In Europe too, no matter how they justify it) can no longer be a friend of mine.
I will not go to the camps quietly due to my sexuality. But it feels so hard to give up this streak of non violence too.
But basically, those that voted Trump did so knowing:
A. They will hurt their friends who are gay or a minority and did so anyway.
B. Knew about the KKK marches and NAZI's supporting him.
C. Did anything in their power to tune that out even though it was blatantly obvious.
They choose to make their bed in the home of the "Grand Wizard and His bed fellow the Führer", now they must lie in it!
teruterubozu
Member
Classy. How is this even allowed?
Django.Mango
Member
I see this is a very complex topic. Im not that far into us history and laws yet, though im interested a lot in it. My topic is more the german history and the political development over the hunderds of years, including the development of its legislative. So im thankful for some backgrounds.
There are many things in the us politics that are kind of strange to me (like death penalty), but its interesting.
E-Cat
Member
How is this actually happening? How can a first-world nation be so backward in 2016?
Nope, still not neo-nazis. Just an unfortunate photograph of a singular moment.
Angelus Errare
Banned
They will say nothing against this.
Freedom to gather is protected.
Yea it sucks, there is nothing we can do =\
Just America? HAH! Oh wait you're serious.
Do you really think Europe is still special in that it's alt right is "just concerned about refugees"
. I got news for you, that march they are in? Those are all NAZI's who use Arabic antisemitism (because guess, what, Arabic people are semetic!) as a cloth to hide their FULL antisemitism. Why do you think Putin and his followers go on and on about how the "Jews lie and fund terrorism". It's just the next jug of kool aid, after you finished the current one... laced with poison. Why do you think every populist in Europe was the first to congratulate Trump? It is a pan western movement! Funded globally and catered to each specific region. They knew it wasn't okay to just downright hate on gay people in the Netherlands? So they let it slide for now, these days there actually is violence again and people questioning the Pride Marches of "Why they still exist, and can't you do that stuff in your own house... gosh disgusting".
It is the same group, the same NAZI base using the SAME "news" sources. Wake up and smell the roses!
E-Cat
Member
Even though that gathering will likely inspire real-world violence, from both sides.
Poor education and unchecked hate speech, I guess?
There's the possibility that the Trump you know about is different than the Trump she knows about, due to the bolded and its ilk. It's likely your mother, like a large part of America, was sold a very warped version of reality through the heavy filter of the organized conservative media, which devolved into outright propaganda a while ago.
LOL, I just use "Alt Reich" after someone on this forum coined the phrase. It... fits.
Django.Mango
Member
Just America? HAH! Oh wait you're serious.
Do you really think Europe is still special in that it's alt right is "just concerned about refugees"
Why do you think every populist in Europe was the first to congratulate Trump? It is a pan western movement! Funded globally and catered to each specific region. They knew it wasn't okay to just downright hate on gay people in the Netherlands? So they let it slide for now, these days there actually is violence again and people questioning the Pride Marches of "Why they still exist, and can't you do that stuff in your own house... gosh disgusting".
It is the same group, the same NAZI base using the SAME "news" sources. Wake up and smell the roses!
This is not correct, maybe you should try to differentiate it a bit on this point. Its more the xenophobic aspect that carries these kind of movements (at least in ger). These movements are full with different people and different needs. They sure are receptive to basic solutions on difficult problems, maybe. But to say they are all nazis and anti semite is not right and doesnt help.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Here's how they think: "I'ma get mine under Trump and if I don't well at least you'll suffer cuz I secretly hate you people!"
Angelus Errare
Banned
I agree but what can we do? This election has proven beyond doubt that Americans just don't give a fuck.
E-Cat
Member
I think that the lack of universal single-payer healthcare already speaks to that. You don't even need to be a racist to not give a fuck about your neighbours.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
Wow. Just wow.
Free speech does not work? That's a disgraceful position - people need to understand that free speech is a fundamental right, and that even unpopular free speech needs to be protected because of the underlying principles of free speech, not necessarily the content of it.
Banning free speech, insane! The ACLU fights for the right for neo nazi's to get permits and walk down main street - something that all these new members will FREAK OUT about once it happens. They often take VERY unpopular free speech cases to court because of the underlying principles of what they are fighting for, not the specific message.
So yes, we need to hold our damn noses, and protect unpopular speech, and then use a greater force to shout it down.
I don't think media should give these guys a megaphone, but that's not a free speech issue, that's a business decision on why they've allowed hateful assholes like this clown to go on TV.
So direct your anger to the news providers, organize and shout down the stuff you don't believe in, but don't sit there and try to say that free speech in media is something that should be banned or reconsidered.
That's asinine.
It is not immature, the Germans that voted for Hitler, voted for NAZIs. The People that voted for trump knowingly did so too. There is no way around it. They choose their bed fellows, and now they must lay with them.
Nope, still not neo-nazis. Just an unfortunate photograph of a singular moment.
Well, thanks for making me question my humanity Mr. Nazi.
Alt-Qaeda works too
Jup, people keep forgetting that these fuckers are in all countries with different populist believes. In Indonesia they just rioted because a man quoted something from the Quran. In the Philippines we have Mister Duterte doing his thing. In Japan we have black vans going about with big loud speakers...
Islamic terrorists are nothing more than the middle eastern version of Right Wing Extremists.
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