GodlyPerfection
Member
Time to get this thread going with forging plans. 
The below post is split up into quote sections by iteration. They are in quote sections so quoting doesn't repeat the massive amount of pictures and so it resizes the pictures while still retaining the possibility to see them in their full size. Also the sketchup versions of the maps are built with modeled forge pieces. Here are the sections:
At the end of this post are links to a playable simulation of Think Again done in the Unity game engine so people can get a close feel for LOS and locations. I would love your feedback. It requires a download of a plugin called Unity Webplayer... it is safe and used by thousands of indie game developers around the world.
So I've been working on a design since E3 this year and seeing some gameplay of H4. I threw together a quick rough draft after having watched the Adrift and Haven direct feed MLG videos that were put out. The idea behind this design was to take the gimmick of Think Twice in Halo: Reach's Team Slayer playlist (created by myself, A 3 Legged Goat, Sven Nietzsche, and Jonzorz 124) and turn it into a map that could have better competitive value. Note that I said better competitive value, not the best competitive map out there. For those who don't know what Think Again, the idea is to use a 45 ramp/wall to serve as a continuous transition up to the next level. So you can walk up the side walls and jump up to the next level. Here is a video and screenshot of Think Twice in Halo: Reach.
Rough Draft Ideation in Sketchup
As I said I tried to take this concept of a walkable wall and make it less of a gimmick and more of a tool for use. The cool thing about the concept is that the flooring you can jump to becomes very dynamic cover as you walk up and down the side walls. It makes movement very important for survival. Below are several screenshots of what I started out with in Google Sketchup when I stated the idea. I made the ceiling transparent for viewing.
Initial Playable version in Reach Forge for sizing
With that mapped out I let it simmer for a few months... as you can see I had nothing in the side paths. I was at a lost so I took a break. Later on, I think around PAX, is when I picked it back up and I was forging in reach for a little bit. I decided to do a quick rough draft for sizing of it. It turned into a full blown map and I was able to get some damn good playtests on it. I got a lot of feedback and made a lot of changes to it. Below are some screenshots from the playable iteration on Reach. At this time the map was called Think Thrice, and I changed the name to Think Again thanks to Sven Nietzsche. With a planned description of "Third time's a charm."
From this version I learned that it needed some more size to be playable in H4. Especially after watching the released footage of Solace. Smexi Bilzo suggested I thicken the walls, many suggested to get rid of the teleporters (which I realized quickly... lol), and I wanted to add a little bit more to the sides.
First Draft Plan for H4 in Sketchup/Unity
So after having spent several weeks with the map on Halo: Reach and tweaking things here and there I decided to start setting up a Sketchup to use as a reference while forging in Halo 4. I had already made new plans on many things that I wanted to do. I started by constructing simple models of the forge objects and just started building exactly what I had in Reach. As time went on I got more ideas and started playing with a couple of things. The main focus on this was to try to distinguish the two sides and try to account for lighting. I wanted lighting to not only separate the style of both sides, but to also point out key points on the map. There is now an open side and a closed side.
The lighting is pretty basic and straight on rather than naturally asymmetric so yeah... it may be hard to understand what is going on in these screenshots. The good news is that there is a web browser playable simulation of this version that you can try out as long as you download the Unity Webplayer plugin (it is safe and used by thousands of indie developers... trust me). You can check it out here:
Think Again H4 Version 1 Playable Demo
Second Draft for H4 in Sketchup/Unity
So after setting up lighting and setting up a playable demo of the first planned version in H4 I posted it up for many people to check it out and give feedback. Luckily I had some hard critics over at RP which forced me to re-think how I was approaching the map. The biggest critique that while the map may or may not be fully balanced, there was no incentive to go anywhere. Basically there was almost no advantage to be anywhere, it is all just a constant move when threatened... which makes the combat uninteresting.
So I went back to the drawing board and started building it from scratch. What I decided was to make a sort of extreme height variation on one side, and a mid height on the opposite side. The open side became a sort of "cliff" setup where the highest point on the map was available, overlooking several areas, but below it was the lowest portion of the map where players could "sneak" below the high side if they so chose. The opposite side, which sits at the mid height of the map, is in a position to be able to pop shots on a decent amount of the high side, creating an interesting cross map scenario. If players sitting on the "cliff" are threatened by the opposite side they are pushed to be exposed from the other side and vice versa. The lift on the outer platform also lifts up to the "cliff" and is part of the extreme low section which allows people to take it without being spotted by those on the cliff.
Like the previous version I also put this into Unity to play with lighting. I took a slightly more open approach to lighting, opening up the ceiling over the bases and allowing for lighting to pour a little more onto closed side. The ceiling of the map was also raised to allow for more uses for Jetpack where it was once restricted. It isn't completely overpowered, but there is some flexibility available for them now. The ceiling also had an interesting effect on the lighting. And when you look at the map from a top down point of view the map is sort of offset towards open side so that close side is a slight faster route, but has less options and longer LOSs. Allows some differentiation for reasoning between paths.
Below is the link to the latest version of the map that is completely walk through-able... give it a shot and let me know what you think about the various LOSs from different locations to others... as LOS was a huge focus this time around... offering more interesting engagements. Also ignore the blue light... I messed something up on this release. lol...
Think Again H4 Version 2 Playable Demo
Plans for H4
Alright so I hope you guys enjoyed the current history of Think Again prior to full development of it. Not sure if it helps anyone or if anyone is interested, but I found it helpful for me to go over the whole process and reviewed how I came to certain decisions. The last version in this post is currently sitting at about low 4K budget, with some of the categories being over by 10-25 pieces, but I also barely have any decorative pieces so I have loads of room to replace objects with Brace, Larges to stay within limits.
My plan is to build Think Again on either Erosion or Ravine. If I can have the forgeworld object limitations work then I may go Erosion. Lighting is important too because I want a strong contrast and there may not be a bright enough area for that on Erosion. If I were to build on Ravine it would be near the water, against the cliff side. Open side balcony would look over the water with closed side being against the cliff face. If I build on Erosion the pipes will be great for detailing and will probably replace the pillars that I have on the current iteration to make the map feel more organic. I like the rust look, but if I can't find an area with drastic enough contrast between light and shadow then I may go with Ravine. I'm avoiding Impact because it will more than likely be the most used environment.
I'm looking for some heavy feedback... whatever concerns you may have then bring it up now. Don't sugar coat. I can take it. Compliments are welcome because it is nice to get some appreciation for lots of hard work. lol...
Again the playable demo can be found here:
Think Again H4 Version 1 Playable Demo
Think Again H4 Version 2 Playable Demo
The below post is split up into quote sections by iteration. They are in quote sections so quoting doesn't repeat the massive amount of pictures and so it resizes the pictures while still retaining the possibility to see them in their full size. Also the sketchup versions of the maps are built with modeled forge pieces. Here are the sections:- Rough Draft Ideation in Sketchup
- Initial Playable version in Reach Forge for sizing
- First Draft Plan for H4 in Sketchup/Unity
- Second Draft in Sketchup/Unity
At the end of this post are links to a playable simulation of Think Again done in the Unity game engine so people can get a close feel for LOS and locations. I would love your feedback. It requires a download of a plugin called Unity Webplayer... it is safe and used by thousands of indie game developers around the world.
So I've been working on a design since E3 this year and seeing some gameplay of H4. I threw together a quick rough draft after having watched the Adrift and Haven direct feed MLG videos that were put out. The idea behind this design was to take the gimmick of Think Twice in Halo: Reach's Team Slayer playlist (created by myself, A 3 Legged Goat, Sven Nietzsche, and Jonzorz 124) and turn it into a map that could have better competitive value. Note that I said better competitive value, not the best competitive map out there.
For those who don't know what Think Again, the idea is to use a 45 ramp/wall to serve as a continuous transition up to the next level. So you can walk up the side walls and jump up to the next level. Here is a video and screenshot of Think Twice in Halo: Reach.Rough Draft Ideation in Sketchup
As I said I tried to take this concept of a walkable wall and make it less of a gimmick and more of a tool for use. The cool thing about the concept is that the flooring you can jump to becomes very dynamic cover as you walk up and down the side walls. It makes movement very important for survival. Below are several screenshots of what I started out with in Google Sketchup when I stated the idea. I made the ceiling transparent for viewing.
As I said I tried to take this concept and make it less of a gimmick and more of a tool for use. The cool thing about the concept is that the flooring you can jump to becomes very dynamic cover as you walk up and down the side walls. It makes movement very important for survival. Below are several screenshots of what I started out with in Google Sketchup when I stated the idea. I made the ceiling transparent for viewing.
Top Down view
Overall started out as a relatively simple octagon shaped map... split with a cross in the center.
Base View
The base was relatively simple... two levels, a quick back transitional platform where the flag would go. The base is more integrated into the layout than stand alone. And I had the idea of putting in windows to the interior area.
Side View
Also relatively simple, a walkable outer wall that can be used to jump to the top level, a couple of entrances out to some sort of side area. Wasn't sure exactly what. My mind was working around Adrift outer platforms at the time, so man cannons out to the bases from said side area was an idea. lol...
Interior View
This was the more intricate part of the map. Paths to the bottom of the base, the center route, and the bottom side of the center area. Intended as the main "loop" of movement because of its security compared to the long LOS down the center path.
Center View
Taking inspiration from Think Twice's center this has walkable walls up to a center path. The walkable walls are only from neutral side to neutral side rather than base to base, so they will be used less often as a result and be less of a main gimmick. There would be a long LOS from one side to the other down the cross to contest the center. It is obvious that I'm a fan of crosses in my layouts... lol.
Initial Playable version in Reach Forge for sizing
With that mapped out I let it simmer for a few months... as you can see I had nothing in the side paths. I was at a lost so I took a break. Later on, I think around PAX, is when I picked it back up and I was forging in reach for a little bit. I decided to do a quick rough draft for sizing of it. It turned into a full blown map and I was able to get some damn good playtests on it. I got a lot of feedback and made a lot of changes to it. Below are some screenshots from the playable iteration on Reach. At this time the map was called Think Thrice, and I changed the name to Think Again thanks to Sven Nietzsche. With a planned description of "Third time's a charm."
From this version I learned that it needed some more size to be playable in H4. Especially after watching the released footage of Solace. Smexi Bilzo suggested I thicken the walls, many suggested to get rid of the teleporters (which I realized quickly... lol), and I wanted to add a little bit more to the sides.
Base View
Base is still relatively simple... now has the windows I had planned on adding. There were two exits in the bottom going towards the interior spaces. There were also drop downs off to the side of the windows. And the sides of the base open up to a corner where the walls are walkable and hence allows quick transition between the top and bottom of the base from the sides... also allows cover while fighting anyone sitting in the base.
Side View
The sides used to just be a straight shot from one side to the other... thanks to Warholic I added a little more variation to it. Dropped down a bit of cover as well on the top level. Leads straight to the center and can be jumped up to from the bottom on the outside with the walkable walls or crates on the inside. You can also drop down to the teleporter section on the side. There is also a window looking into the interior section. It can't be walked through, but can be fired through like the windows in the bases.
Bottom Side View
This area is a bit claustrophobic, but after some feedback and tweaking it went from hitting your head when jumping to being very smooth for jumping. There are crates that you can use to jump up to the top level or you can use the walkable walls to get up as well. There is a path to the interiors between the base and center as well. And the bottom level drops into the teleporter room.
Teleporter View
These teleporters were sort of intended to play like Battle Creek... well because they are in the center of the map rather than the back of the bases, they received too much attention. Resulting in me scrapping them rather quickly. Even though people could drop down from the top and toss grenades, there was a little cubby below the walkable wall that allowed people to camp there. Bleh...
Interior View
Again, this is intended as the main area of movement... to lighten the traffic the windows in the bases prevent traversal and just allow LOS. Also the center path in this shot goes all the way to the other base... the shortest route, but also the easiest to get caught in. It filters into the interior areas. There are also windows into the interior areas from the top of the side paths. You can leave the interior to the center path, bottom side center, bottom side, or the bases.
Center View
A bit different from the original mockup. The center platform was now lower and much wider, stretching from wall to wall. The walkable walls are only on the ends, and they allow people to jump up to the side from the bottom center, or up to the center from the bottom side. Also the ramps going into the center from the bases are going down and under rather than straight up to. This allowed for more flexibility in path choice... players can jump to the top center platform or quickly run through the bottom center.
First Draft Plan for H4 in Sketchup/Unity
So after having spent several weeks with the map on Halo: Reach and tweaking things here and there I decided to start setting up a Sketchup to use as a reference while forging in Halo 4. I had already made new plans on many things that I wanted to do. I started by constructing simple models of the forge objects and just started building exactly what I had in Reach. As time went on I got more ideas and started playing with a couple of things. The main focus on this was to try to distinguish the two sides and try to account for lighting. I wanted lighting to not only separate the style of both sides, but to also point out key points on the map. There is now an open side and a closed side.
The lighting is pretty basic and straight on rather than naturally asymmetric so yeah... it may be hard to understand what is going on in these screenshots. The good news is that there is a web browser playable simulation of this version that you can try out as long as you download the Unity Webplayer plugin (it is safe and used by thousands of indie developers... trust me). You can check it out here:
Think Again H4 Version 1 Playable Demo
Base View
Here is Red Base... closed side is on the right and offscreen open side is on the left. The lighting is coming down towards the closed side at about a 50 degree angle. Down the center hall, because of the open ceiling, one of the sides is lit and the other side is unlit, helping players orient themselves right off spawn. Also the entrance hall to the base is slightly wider and the ramps are now 45 degrees towards the center rather than a full 90 degrees to the left or right... this makes the movement smoother and makes the choices more obvious. Also the walls on either side of the center hall are also thicker. Also has a vaulted ceiling
Closed Side Views
To the right of Red Base is closed side. Aptly named because it is closed to the outside. There is a ramp up to the right that brings you up to the center platform from the outside as an alternate and indirect route. The long sight lines wouldn't be as long as they would have some sort of LOS blocker down the sides. The center is also pretty bland. But the top level of it is also a power ordnance drop. The area is bland and I realize it. The geometry could be loads more interesting so it is definitely a goal for later. Also from the bottom center of closed side you can go up a walkable wall in order to get to the back side of the top center where the back ramps come up to it.
Open Side Views
So open side is a lot more interesting in this iteration and it is very distinct from closde side... but only on the outside. In the center of the outer open side is a man cannon that launches players up to the top of open side. There are outer ramps that go down to the outer platform and a small ramp down from the bottom center of the side. Thanks to the lighting the path is fully lit going all the way down to help distinguish it. Not to mention the outside platform is full blow lit and also full exposure to the environment.
Interior View
The interior is relatively the same... there are still windows looking down on it from top closed/open side and from the base. The only real difference is that the ramp is now 45 degrees rather than 90 degrees... again for fluid transition and for foreshadowing paths when looking down the entrance hall. Interior is also quite dark.
Center View
And finally the center... which hasn't changed much from the Reach version either. The big focus was on the sides. The only key point here is the long strip of light going down the center to guide eyes towards the side to side combat.
Second Draft for H4 in Sketchup/Unity
So after setting up lighting and setting up a playable demo of the first planned version in H4 I posted it up for many people to check it out and give feedback. Luckily I had some hard critics over at RP which forced me to re-think how I was approaching the map. The biggest critique that while the map may or may not be fully balanced, there was no incentive to go anywhere. Basically there was almost no advantage to be anywhere, it is all just a constant move when threatened... which makes the combat uninteresting.
So I went back to the drawing board and started building it from scratch. What I decided was to make a sort of extreme height variation on one side, and a mid height on the opposite side. The open side became a sort of "cliff" setup where the highest point on the map was available, overlooking several areas, but below it was the lowest portion of the map where players could "sneak" below the high side if they so chose. The opposite side, which sits at the mid height of the map, is in a position to be able to pop shots on a decent amount of the high side, creating an interesting cross map scenario. If players sitting on the "cliff" are threatened by the opposite side they are pushed to be exposed from the other side and vice versa. The lift on the outer platform also lifts up to the "cliff" and is part of the extreme low section which allows people to take it without being spotted by those on the cliff.
Like the previous version I also put this into Unity to play with lighting. I took a slightly more open approach to lighting, opening up the ceiling over the bases and allowing for lighting to pour a little more onto closed side. The ceiling of the map was also raised to allow for more uses for Jetpack where it was once restricted. It isn't completely overpowered, but there is some flexibility available for them now. The ceiling also had an interesting effect on the lighting. And when you look at the map from a top down point of view the map is sort of offset towards open side so that close side is a slight faster route, but has less options and longer LOSs. Allows some differentiation for reasoning between paths.
Below is the link to the latest version of the map that is completely walk through-able... give it a shot and let me know what you think about the various LOSs from different locations to others... as LOS was a huge focus this time around... offering more interesting engagements. Also ignore the blue light... I messed something up on this release. lol...
Think Again H4 Version 2 Playable Demo
Base View
The base is still relatively the same structurally. It now has an open ceiling though and it is also wider than what it has been (the whole map is actually a bit wdier than it has been). Another change is that the windows are now little cubbies that you can go into... this allows you to go slightly "into" the interior area and allows you to see the other window (closed side still has an opening, but it is not longer a non-traversable window) from closed side or open side. On open side the window also gives you shots towards the new high point. Another interesting feature is that the closed side window allows you to see fully across to the other base's closed side window. While the open side window allows you to watch both the high point and the ramp going up towards the high point. And a bit of the center bridge right below the high point as well as the area below the high point.
Closed Side Views
Closed Side feels a little more intricate now than it was. The bottom area has an elevated area where the walkable walls are and the paths up to the back of closed center. The ramps on the outside of the area are also much shorter and now at a 45 degree angle for fluidity. There are also pillars now and the height variation is a bit more drastic than it was in the past iteration which allows for more interesting encounters. There is also no window on closed side going to interior... it is fully open and includes access to a ledge that can lead to the center platform or give LOS into the base through closed side window. As before the top center of closed side will be a power ordnance and initial spawn.
Open Side Views
As mentioned above, open side now resembles a "cliff" style to it. With a powerful high point, but a huge contrast between it and the low points that allows players to be heavily secure in the low points unless the enemies on high point are watching near the edge of it. The open side window looking into interior is also nicely covered from the high point, and it watches the ramp going up to high point from the center path. This is also the planned sniper initial spawn for both teams. This setup also allows for team side to team side sniping duels and allows the sniper to cover the high point power weapon spawn. There is a pillar that comes down from the high point that has "wings" on it that allow one to jump up to that open center bridge on open side.
Open side also includes walkable walls from the dance floor below high point up to the ramps coming from the center path up to high point. There is a ceiling over the high point so that players below can bounce grenades off of the ceiling to deter people from the high point. The man cannon on the open side balcony launches up to the high point. There is a power weapon spawn at the very tip of the exposed side of high point. I'm still iffy about the narrow bridge below high point so that may change.
Interior Views
The two interior spaces are now different... closed side interior space no longer has a side window looking down on it. Instead it is now open with a ledge that allows people to get a shot into the basis or to serve as a quick transition to center platform. There is also a jump up to that ledge. The open side interior space now has an up ramp from center path going towards high point. Open side interior also has open access to the dance floor below high point as well as a path that runs below the up ramps that leads to another power weapon spawn (probably sword). There may also be a jump up later on in open side interior that allows you to jump up to the up ramp.
Center Views
Center has changed quite a bit as now the only walkable walls are on closed side, allowing transition from bottom closed to top center or bottom center to top closed. On the open side of the center there are the ends of the up ramps going up to high point. There is also a "slot" below those ramps that allows you to drop from top center to below high point. Grenades can also be put through there to catch those going for Sword/power spawn. The ceiling is also a little more open to allow more light into the area.
Plans for H4
Alright so I hope you guys enjoyed the current history of Think Again prior to full development of it. Not sure if it helps anyone or if anyone is interested, but I found it helpful for me to go over the whole process and reviewed how I came to certain decisions. The last version in this post is currently sitting at about low 4K budget, with some of the categories being over by 10-25 pieces, but I also barely have any decorative pieces so I have loads of room to replace objects with Brace, Larges to stay within limits.
My plan is to build Think Again on either Erosion or Ravine. If I can have the forgeworld object limitations work then I may go Erosion. Lighting is important too because I want a strong contrast and there may not be a bright enough area for that on Erosion. If I were to build on Ravine it would be near the water, against the cliff side. Open side balcony would look over the water with closed side being against the cliff face. If I build on Erosion the pipes will be great for detailing and will probably replace the pillars that I have on the current iteration to make the map feel more organic. I like the rust look, but if I can't find an area with drastic enough contrast between light and shadow then I may go with Ravine. I'm avoiding Impact because it will more than likely be the most used environment.
I'm looking for some heavy feedback... whatever concerns you may have then bring it up now. Don't sugar coat. I can take it.
Compliments are welcome because it is nice to get some appreciation for lots of hard work. lol...Again the playable demo can be found here:
Think Again H4 Version 1 Playable Demo
Think Again H4 Version 2 Playable Demo
