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Halo 4 Forge |OT| Crafting a better tomorrow; one Brace, Large at a time
- Thread starter GodlyPerfection
- Start date
Der Flatulator
Member
(@Overdoziz)
I spent about 10 minutes just thinking to myself regarding why there are max counts for groups of items. I considered:
I got nothing.
If you know anything about data compression you'd know that the more something repeats, the more efficiently you can compress it.
Graphics cards are designed to be able to draw the same texture repeatedly with minimal memory overhead.
It should hardly affect networking, nor the physics engine.
I honestly have no idea...
I spent about 10 minutes just thinking to myself regarding why there are max counts for groups of items. I considered:
- networking,
- file formats,
- data compression,
- data representation,
- rendering techniques,
- memory constraints,
- caching,
- Havok,
- shaders,
- and a few other things.
I got nothing.
If you know anything about data compression you'd know that the more something repeats, the more efficiently you can compress it.
Graphics cards are designed to be able to draw the same texture repeatedly with minimal memory overhead.
It should hardly affect networking, nor the physics engine.
I honestly have no idea...
nillapuddin
Member
guys, im in love.
(the build blocks are consistent)
(the build blocks are consistent)
External Memory
Neo Member
Nevermind.
Really not sure what to think. Nice to have Forge back but the environments are pretty boring and really small. Also, the loud noise the editor makes is the most annoying thing in the world. Who the hell thought playing all the noises in the background was a good idea? Also, why even bother with the editor HUD? We seriously don't need it.
Really so-so at this point. Certain Affinity should have talked to Forgers before throwing it out.
Really so-so at this point. Certain Affinity should have talked to Forgers before throwing it out.
timetokill
Banned
Is it that same whine that was in Halo Reach? That shit was annoying too.
Personally I just turn the tv onto mute and put on some music while I Forge.
The whine in Reach only happened when you moved fast and was way down in the mix.
Halo 4 is like a constant YOU ARE FORGING sound that's loud as hell.
timetokill
Banned
Ugh. Well, guess I'll have the music going again. There's really no reason to have a "Forging noise" going at all.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Quick question, that map on the moon forge map thats in some of the videos, is that in the game already or do i have to download it?
No, an even more annoying noise that constantly happens.
Really annoying sound. Putting on headphones to some music is the only way around it.
Also having to wait for what feels like an eternity when you end the Forge session sucks. Did they really feel the need to keep the scoreboard up for like 20 seconds when Forge ends? Absolutely kills the flow when you need to save and quit to switch modes and do quick checks.
I know they had it so we can have loads of friends Forging together but I cannot see the need. I am sure it is something to do with the Player/Edit jump you do but does it need to be done like a MP game?
Also, do we need the HUD? Could we not hide all the Radar/Shield rubbish?
Currently, I am just not feeling Forge. The 3 Forge maps are small and just not great for Forging stuff.
Why's that?
nillapuddin
Member
wat
Small as in, no good floor-space to make anything. Plus they have way too much stuff in the map you cannot remove. I am back to making floating maps again.
Yeah, Impact is going to be used a lot. Not just for the pieces but because it has the most continous open space.
In all honesty they should have included Forge World as a direct port from Reach. The map is just so damn flexible in what it can do. I mean this in all honesty, a game that supports Forge just needs to have Forge World in it, standard, or at least as a prebuilt if we get to the point of total terrain generation.
In all honesty they should have included Forge World as a direct port from Reach. The map is just so damn flexible in what it can do. I mean this in all honesty, a game that supports Forge just needs to have Forge World in it, standard, or at least as a prebuilt if we get to the point of total terrain generation.
squidhands
Member
The "Return to Battlefield" shit is out of hand. Can't use the water on Ravine (or whatever the Forerunner map called), what the flying fuck.
And you're crazy for wanting a port of FW.
Make the Canyon area Valhalla, make the Sanctuary alcove bigger, port it over IN ADDITION to new environments, fix The Island so it's truly symmetrical, add another island out in the vast water that's perfectly flat. Otherwise, you're missing possibilities that hurt exactly no one to have them present.
It's like we went from Foundry to Sandbox and now we're back to Foundry 1.5.
edit: basically the way I mean to say this is that Forge-centric maps should just be ported forward. So bring Sandbox along too.
Sorry, meant Coliseum Windows. The glass areas are inset and the narrow width prevents the sides from being useful.
On another note. I made a small discovery. You can make some items, in some places, invisible. The built in Grifball court has an alcove in one corner. I was able to completely block off the space using an invisible Coliseum Wall.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
We need a giant Sandbox style map, I'm baffled as to why the didn't make a giant, flat, and open area.
Yeah it's kind of limited at this point. Also all the Forgers are probably still in the first day rush of playing the game.
You can still grab and alter it, and in this case it is only visible from one angle within the small room. There are also several invisible Struts covering the lights along one of the end walls.
squidhands
Member
Maybe the magnets will keep grenades from falling through. ;-)
Posted this in the community thread yesterday, but not having precision controls is unbelievably frustrating. I was hoping to use the default Impact building, but getting anything to line up vertically with those windows is frustrating, a matter of tapping RB and LB as lightly as I can and praying that it works this time. There are no magnet points on the building, and the height coordinates are not fine enough to get it to line up (or even come close to doing so). Fixing Z-fighting is going to be a total pain in the ass. Seems that the mode was developed to better facilitate creation of floating maps over those that use the default geometry, but even then, why discard one of Reach's biggest Forge improvements over 3?
Taking a while to get back into Forge. They still have way too much bump-mapping detail on objects. All of the building blocks give you those little annoying 'bumps' when you walk around. They also have plenty of objects with not enough magnet links to them.
As mentioned, the "Out of Bounds" thing is super aggressive. Do they really need to be there?
As mentioned, the "Out of Bounds" thing is super aggressive. Do they really need to be there?
Spent about an hour and a half with Forge.
- Out of Bounds everywhere.
- Pre-built Terrain sucks. Where's a nice flat surface that isn't a Colosseum wall?
- Already can tell I'm going to be fighting the obscenely low item counts again.
- No new pieces apart from a handful of map-specific objects. So much is just copied straight from Reach. Quite a letdown.
- Still no precise vertical positioning.
- Already spotted a few instances where shadows are being cast by objects that have been deleted.
- Colosseum wall and windows aren't the same length. Something feels off.
- No 'mirror' option? All of the larger ramps wind clockwise, and there's no way to change that. So if you want two on either side of a base, it's not gonna happen.
- Still no undo.
- Still need to quit out completely to change gametypes.
Multiplayer feels really fucked up too. It feels like SWAT matches, that's how fast the kills come. Everyone is sprinting everywhere, power weapons everywhere, vehicles everywhere (Mantis and Banshee on the same map? Great idea!), balance nowhere. I don't see it having much longevity with me, not like H3 (or even Reach) and certainly nowhere near as much as H2.
I don't know if I want to make maps for this kind of gameplay, I think it's just been sped up and cut down, all of the tactics and skill of Halo has been replaced with "Whoever sees the other guy first wins". You used to get hit once, maybe twice, and be able to turn and put up a fight (unless it was a CE Pistol or Snipe, obviously). I liked that Halo was a little meatier, maybe even a tad slower and chunkier... and for all their talk of 'making you feel like you're in a heavy suit of Spartan armor', you feel awfully flimsy and easy to bump off.
I hate to say it, but it feels like Call of Duty had waaaaaaaaaaaay too much influence on the gameplay here. Too fast, too many pointless weapons (we really need 4 rifles?)... it's just all over the place.
I know it just came out, but first blush, I think I'm done with 343's vision of Halo. I went from liking the campaign (but feeling lost on a lot of the story) to "Wow, campaign was all there was in this game for me." Will probably tinker with Forge a little tomorrow, just to give it a fair shake, but holy shit so much just jumped out as either "Why the fuck is this not fixed" or "Why the fuck did they break it?" I didn't see much I liked, let alone wanted to build with. That's a bad sign, Forgers.
- Out of Bounds everywhere.
- Especially annoying that we can't build close to water.
- Out of Bounds timer does not reset instantly, so you can be in an OoB area with 1 seconds left and then slide into another OoB area and die instantly.
- Cannot manipulate a large object without it shoving the camera way back. Trying to line up two Colosseum walls means move object - release - fly close to inspect - repeat ad nauseum. This is no way to build.- Out of Bounds timer does not reset instantly, so you can be in an OoB area with 1 seconds left and then slide into another OoB area and die instantly.
- No zoom in at all, actually.
- EVERYTHING IN CAPS IS HARD TO READ. 343 needs a UI guy. Badly.- Pre-built Terrain sucks. Where's a nice flat surface that isn't a Colosseum wall?
- Already can tell I'm going to be fighting the obscenely low item counts again.
- No new pieces apart from a handful of map-specific objects. So much is just copied straight from Reach. Quite a letdown.
- Still no trees?
Still the same shitty natural shapes that you can't build anything with?
- Takes longer to get into editing.Still the same shitty natural shapes that you can't build anything with?
- Still no precise vertical positioning.
- Already spotted a few instances where shadows are being cast by objects that have been deleted.
- Colosseum wall and windows aren't the same length. Something feels off.
- No 'mirror' option? All of the larger ramps wind clockwise, and there's no way to change that. So if you want two on either side of a base, it's not gonna happen.
- Still no undo.
- Still need to quit out completely to change gametypes.
- Especially annoying because of the long time it takes to get into editing.
Multiplayer feels really fucked up too. It feels like SWAT matches, that's how fast the kills come. Everyone is sprinting everywhere, power weapons everywhere, vehicles everywhere (Mantis and Banshee on the same map? Great idea!), balance nowhere. I don't see it having much longevity with me, not like H3 (or even Reach) and certainly nowhere near as much as H2.
I don't know if I want to make maps for this kind of gameplay, I think it's just been sped up and cut down, all of the tactics and skill of Halo has been replaced with "Whoever sees the other guy first wins". You used to get hit once, maybe twice, and be able to turn and put up a fight (unless it was a CE Pistol or Snipe, obviously). I liked that Halo was a little meatier, maybe even a tad slower and chunkier... and for all their talk of 'making you feel like you're in a heavy suit of Spartan armor', you feel awfully flimsy and easy to bump off.
I hate to say it, but it feels like Call of Duty had waaaaaaaaaaaay too much influence on the gameplay here. Too fast, too many pointless weapons (we really need 4 rifles?)... it's just all over the place.
I know it just came out, but first blush, I think I'm done with 343's vision of Halo. I went from liking the campaign (but feeling lost on a lot of the story) to "Wow, campaign was all there was in this game for me." Will probably tinker with Forge a little tomorrow, just to give it a fair shake, but holy shit so much just jumped out as either "Why the fuck is this not fixed" or "Why the fuck did they break it?" I didn't see much I liked, let alone wanted to build with. That's a bad sign, Forgers.
It's somewhat disappointing that Erosion has a notable amount of uninterrupted space (enough to fit Area 52 into), but the way the lighting is set up on the map, you end up with the flat look because it's not considered strong enough for objects to cast shadows on each other.
Impact has the most space, but it's Impact and you can already tell it'll be used for the vast majority of variants so it's kind of annoying that you have to use it if you want a) flexibility and b) lighting.
Ravine has the light but for some reason it has the least amount of space. If only they hadn't put that big wall in the middle of the map. Don't know why they couldn't just make a huge area off to the side of the map like Erosion for floating maps. I can't fit Area 52 into it (minimum 62wx40lx12h in Reach) because the Forerunner wall and the cliffs intrude on the space.
I'll give credit and say it only took me 10 minutes to re-forge 80% of the map in 4 from a cold start, that took me 1 to 2 days originally. But that was also due to the Relay category of objects, and the fact that the original map I'm remaking had a lot of corridors. So if you stay in the Relay category, it's near impossible to make a bad map. Once you go outside of that category, the issues with no precision editing, editing camera, etc start hitting you.
Impact has the most space, but it's Impact and you can already tell it'll be used for the vast majority of variants so it's kind of annoying that you have to use it if you want a) flexibility and b) lighting.
Ravine has the light but for some reason it has the least amount of space. If only they hadn't put that big wall in the middle of the map. Don't know why they couldn't just make a huge area off to the side of the map like Erosion for floating maps. I can't fit Area 52 into it (minimum 62wx40lx12h in Reach) because the Forerunner wall and the cliffs intrude on the space.
I'll give credit and say it only took me 10 minutes to re-forge 80% of the map in 4 from a cold start, that took me 1 to 2 days originally. But that was also due to the Relay category of objects, and the fact that the original map I'm remaking had a lot of corridors. So if you stay in the Relay category, it's near impossible to make a bad map. Once you go outside of that category, the issues with no precision editing, editing camera, etc start hitting you.
I really don't understand the space limitations. Is it because the artists were too lazy to make all parts of these relatively small and simple spaces look good from all angles? Was it a technical limitation? Just why
Where is the Sandbox-like map? area with some nice natural terrain and a flat surface, and then a huge flat surface, perhaps with multiple biomes as opposed to a disappearing grid
Just as I had presumed, enclosed maps are going to need a lot of work put in to them to make them not be visually terrible. The simple light/dark shadow system being used eliminates your sense of depth perception when there's just shadow everywhere. It would be workable if there was a real, flat, large, and simple window piece that could easily be used for stuff, but of course their isn't.
H4's Forge is just a disgrace, a token feature. All the pieces are the same outsourced pieces from Reach, outsourced and remodeled again by CA, who obviously have no idea what Forgers need.
Where is the Sandbox-like map? area with some nice natural terrain and a flat surface, and then a huge flat surface, perhaps with multiple biomes as opposed to a disappearing grid
Just as I had presumed, enclosed maps are going to need a lot of work put in to them to make them not be visually terrible. The simple light/dark shadow system being used eliminates your sense of depth perception when there's just shadow everywhere. It would be workable if there was a real, flat, large, and simple window piece that could easily be used for stuff, but of course their isn't.
H4's Forge is just a disgrace, a token feature. All the pieces are the same outsourced pieces from Reach, outsourced and remodeled again by CA, who obviously have no idea what Forgers need.
Press the Bumper and A in rapid succession for fine tuning. At least that still works. I might have to go back to forging in single player for building, and split screen for fine tuning. Using the second controller in place of Zoom.
One thing i am very impressed with is there is no more micro-hopping between the transition points of naturally placed items (spawn the item and place using coordinates, do not rotate the item). I was able to build a Grifball court on Ravine using primarily 4x4 Talls and sprinting on it feels as smooth as a Grid. I must say it looks much better than a floor made of 5x5 Flats in Reach.
Unfortunately. naturally placed items lose their precision after shuffling them around with magnets a few times and will shift after saving so you must re-spawn the item.
I think the strength of the magnets should be how close it pulls the objects together. Seeing those gaps in-between items is really annoying.
I will also agree with a few above me, some of these objects just don't fit together. I am constantly building things, using the settings and having gaps. How?!?! This Forge is pretty lazy, especially seeing the same old objects from Reach, yet they manage to mess them up enough so things don't work. Also flat objects should be flat! Stop making it bump me around when I run over it!
I hope they have a TU down the line for Forge stuff because I cannot see myself dedicating as much time in Halo 4 Forge as I did for its Reach counterpart.
Emperor Bohe
Member
how can I download creations? I want to get a lockout remake..
Does anyone know how to get Player Trait Zones to 'stick'?
For some reason Player Trait Zones use the usual defaults when logic would suggest all initial settings should be set to 'Unchanged'. Traits like Damage Resistance and Shield Multiplier always reset back to default (100% Normal, Normal Shields) when i reopen a map.
For example. You are building a map/variant which uses unlimited Jetpack. Your game variant is not setup for unlimited use so other AA's are not affected. You set a Player Trait Zone with 75% Gravity & Unlimited Abilities (for hovering) just above player's heads so normal gravity and abilities are not affected. When i play a game or return from a save the Gravity of the Player Trait Zone is retained, but the Unlimited Abilities resets to the default Disabled, which negates the ability to use infinite Jetpack.
This is not the actual case i am trying to solve but it is the easiest way i can describe it. I don't require suggestions on how to remedy this particular problem.
For some reason Player Trait Zones use the usual defaults when logic would suggest all initial settings should be set to 'Unchanged'. Traits like Damage Resistance and Shield Multiplier always reset back to default (100% Normal, Normal Shields) when i reopen a map.
For example. You are building a map/variant which uses unlimited Jetpack. Your game variant is not setup for unlimited use so other AA's are not affected. You set a Player Trait Zone with 75% Gravity & Unlimited Abilities (for hovering) just above player's heads so normal gravity and abilities are not affected. When i play a game or return from a save the Gravity of the Player Trait Zone is retained, but the Unlimited Abilities resets to the default Disabled, which negates the ability to use infinite Jetpack.
This is not the actual case i am trying to solve but it is the easiest way i can describe it. I don't require suggestions on how to remedy this particular problem.
Spent the better part of the day working on a map, it's interesting but the same old limitations keep popping up and I know I'll probably be out of pieces before I'm done, with a shitload of budget to spare.
I'd have pictures, but that's broken too. I'm using a lot of the Erosion-exclusive pipe pieces to make a sort of pumping facility that weaves in and out of the sinkholes on the cliffside of the map. Could be interesting if I pull it off. Too bad the coloring and lighting on the Natural objects is garbage and they stick out like a sore thumb.
I don't think it's anything you're doing or no doing; objects not retaining their state after saving and re-loading sounds like a bug, honestly. And given how slapped-together Forge feels, I wouldn't count on that getting fixed any time soon.
Luckily, this bug will not be lonely. Turns out the center axis for 1x2 ramps is off; try flipping one underneath another and it becomes immediately obvious. I'd show you guys what I mean with a picture, but.... yeah.
I'd have pictures, but that's broken too. I'm using a lot of the Erosion-exclusive pipe pieces to make a sort of pumping facility that weaves in and out of the sinkholes on the cliffside of the map. Could be interesting if I pull it off. Too bad the coloring and lighting on the Natural objects is garbage and they stick out like a sore thumb.
I don't think it's anything you're doing or no doing; objects not retaining their state after saving and re-loading sounds like a bug, honestly. And given how slapped-together Forge feels, I wouldn't count on that getting fixed any time soon.
Luckily, this bug will not be lonely. Turns out the center axis for 1x2 ramps is off; try flipping one underneath another and it becomes immediately obvious. I'd show you guys what I mean with a picture, but.... yeah.
I spawned a Bridge Large when I was seeing how it compared to the Corridor piece and it was off center even under 90 degree snap.. deleting and respawning gave me one that actually went straight.
As a side note, there should have been un-windowed versions of the Impact pieces, especially the Corridor. Not super required, but it's kind of annoying that to use that piece-saving forge object, you have to let people see out to the rest of the map, which complicates making sure what they can see doesn't look glaringly "backstage".
nillapuddin
Member
got my first structure complete (ish) version of AstroTurf done today
*not quite finished, and I chose to go a more simpler route than previous iterations, but Im very happy
I am liking the new forge alot, are there issues?
sure, but its not worth my time to bitch about them
*not quite finished, and I chose to go a more simpler route than previous iterations, but Im very happy
I am liking the new forge alot, are there issues?
sure, but its not worth my time to bitch about them
RebornYeti
Member
My main issue with the new Forge is the inability to zoom in. I never realized how much it actually does help with aligning pieces.
User 73706
Banned
Halo Reach monitor sound effect: gentle "glistening" hum sound effect mildly mixed into the audio; increases at higher speeds, but still easy on the ears.
Halo 4 monitor sound effect:
VREEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEERRRRUUUUEEEEEEEE
...
VREEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEERRRRUUUUEEEEEEEE
...
VREEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEERRRRUUUUEEEEEEEE
Halo 4 monitor sound effect:
VREEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEERRRRUUUUEEEEEEEE
...
VREEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEERRRRUUUUEEEEEEEE
...
VREEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEERRRRUUUUEEEEEEEE
squidhands
Member
- Mute TV
- Headphones full of music
- legal drug of choice
- problem solved