everyone starts the same. Everyone.
So sure you're starting with an AR/Pistol but so is everyone else. Go grab a BR/DMR. Or use the super capable pistol. You're acting as though you're at a disadvantage - but it's even starts.
Halo 5: Guardians Beta Thread | Hot Red on Blue Action
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
everyone starts the same. Everyone.
So sure you're starting with an AR/Pistol but so is everyone else. Go grab a BR/DMR. Or use the super capable pistol. You're acting as though you're at a disadvantage - but it's even starts.
XANDER CAGE
Member
They need to get rid of the music that starts with every killcam, my god.
Garrett 2U
Member
The issue is the skill gap is so small with the AR that it's difficult to outplay.
Twilight Gap
Member
Truth isn't though. It lacks substantial geometry in the bases, forcing players onto exposed ramps to take cover with the natural bend of the ramps. While doing this, you're being shot from across the map with a DMR. It has a copious amount of dead space and ridiculously barren sightlines across the map. The top lane is too flat with no incentive to leave your tower. Pink is no longer empowering because of how small it is compared to the (waaaaaay over on the other side) Car.
Midship was designed for 2v2 and that's why it played 4v4 as well as it did. Everyone was a good distance away from each other and the height towered over the bases, giving you an incentive to fight over the side towers. And it wasn't a hike and a half to get there.
Truth stretches those routes too damn much, which means you spend all your time sprinting to the next area and hiding behind a tiny corner because somebody was cross mapping you with a DMR.
If you played SWAT on Truth you'd be killed from across the map every 10 seconds.
Rockondevil
Member
And essentially the many of us that aren't amazing with a BR get fucked over? AR is far better because anyone can really use it and you can still get a BR really bloody easy on the maps we have so far.
I'd be all for two different slayers when the retail game comes out. One with AR starts and one with BR starts. But if it had to be one it should be the AR.
BR starts will mean adding any other weapon to the map is a pointless effort by 343i, well except a sniper maybe. At least with AR starts every other weapon has it's use.
Just my $0.02 on the matter. But I'd rather have the game be better for everyone and not just the skilled. But I could be biased, who knows.
Is this your first Halo?
Dynasty8
Member
I don't believe that cause I've seen how some of the Onyx players play with the AR, they are able to destroy other players with ease. Headshots, control over the recoil, knowing when to melee/grenade/thrust all make a world of difference. All weapons use skill IMO.
Garrett 2U
Member
Less skilled players don't get "fucked over" by a higher skill gap weapon.
You'd still be matchmade against similarly skilled players, who are also less proficient with the weapon.
Altered Juice
Member
for me it's harder in h5. in previous halos i have confidently walked in and snatched up double kills. but in h5 the weapons are so powerful they turn your legs into noodles in seconds!
gonna need those new maps added in the rotation asap because it ruined the midship remake for me.
Link? Or Zelda.
Garrett 2U
Member
Obviously there's other factors.
The choice of primary weapon isn't going to matter in a fight between Onyx and Bronze.
But a higher skill gap weapon allows one player to change the tide of a fight between a Onyx/Onyx and Bronze/Bronze.
Posted it on the Halogaf thread, It should be on Josh Holmes twitter
for me it's harder in h5. in previous halos i have confidently walked in and snatched up double kills. but in h5 the weapons are so powerful they turn your legs into noodles in seconds!
gonna need those new maps added in the rotation asap because it ruined the midship remake for me.
That was my reaction when I read your post, too.
Altered Juice
Member
i like the music
You don't get it.
It's not about the even starts, its as garret said, skill gap and the ability to outplay.
When you have an AR, BR, DMR, Pistol and you come across 2 people within AR range (and the range is quite a bit further than it has every been before) You have very little chance to outplay them because they just aim anywhere on your spartan and rain down a hail of deadly bullets.
In thruster helps with AR fights a ton now, gives you a fighting chance in a 1 v 1 situation where you're weak. But in a 2 v 1 you have no chance.
However, spawn everyone with precision weapons.... and now its a different story. Precision weapons are not only harder to just get body shots, but they require a pinpoint headshot to clean up the kill fast.
With strafe, thrust, jump and crouch you can throw off your opponents aim because its harder to get shots on people with the BR than with an AR. They have a much greater opportunity to miss. Making a 2 v 1 situation much more viable.
Do you understand what I'm saying here?
I hear this tired arguement again and again.
BR starts don't make other weapons useless. It just makes you more capable of defending yourself. You pick up an AR or SMG if you want a deadly weapon at close range thats easy to pick up kills with.
You want a pistol for the quick fire rate, headshot ability, and the quick swap.
You want a DMR for more precision at range.
Sword is an almost guaranteed kill in close range
Snipers, Rockets, Hydra, all are super powerful.
As for the first point... The ranking/matchmaking system should take care of that. You will be matched with people around your skill level. I played a bunch of matches today with a full party. Me and someone else were semi-pro rank. One Onyx. And One Gold. ANd we were getting matched up with similar ranks. And most of the games were close.
Twilight Gap
Member
i'm not liking this no shield recharge when sprinting. it feels like my shields never recharge even when i'm standing still and it's slowing the pace down having to hide to recharge shields.
should have just made you stop sprinting when you get shot. it's more coherent and predictable.
should have just made you stop sprinting when you get shot. it's more coherent and predictable.
http://xboxclips.com/SteelOak/644622bf-af51-4e96-9c49-c18cccbeacff
Enemy team was pretty weak but it was fun to do either way
Enemy team was pretty weak but it was fun to do either way
I personally think this is one of the best changes they've made. I'm so tired of people constantly running away from me every time their shields got low in the past few games. It was annoying as shit.
At least this way, you have to think strategically about whether to sprint or not.
Rockondevil
Member
Everyone knows that the BR just becomes the only weapon used. Yes I am exaggerating slightly, but it does mean most other weapons hardly get used in most games because they just can't compete against the BR. I say most because obviously power weapons like Snipers and Rockets can still pack a punch.
Hopefully matchmaking does take care of that one.
Still would rather two separate gametypes of slayer to combat that first point because some of us don't like Halo with only BR's.
Obviously you don't care about others opinions though so probably wasting my time.
IOnEI Falcon
Member
Only Halo 4 had flinch right?
Altered Juice
Member
"is this your first halo?"
the only way to get into the beta is by mcc, not sure where you're coming from with that.
yep
Twilight Gap
Member
Sprint definitely needed some tweaks, but i don't think this was the right one. it actually encourages running away until you find a safe spot to recharge your shields. i'd have rather they disabled the ability to sprint when your shields are down, thus taking you out of it if you were hit with enough fire. this would punish bad positioning and prevent people from using it aimlessly, whereas now I feel like that penalty is being unnecessarily dragged out.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Clamber does feel pretty bad compared to the other shooters that have something similar. Crysis 2/3 ledge grabs are 100 times more fluid and natural feeling, Titanfall and Advanced Warfare also feels better to me.
I'm still having a lot of fun and the shooting is top notch, but some of the movement definitely feels janky at times. Thrust feels good though.
Garrett 2U
Member
I think it would help the conversation if you named a few weapons that are effective with AR starts but made useless with BR starts.
From any Halo game.
I am having trouble thinking of any weapons in Halo 2, 3, or Reach that fit that case.
Maybe the needler, but that weapon has always been inconsistent in the sandbox.
I usually find it more effective to not sprint at all when I'm low shields. I usually just use thruster pack to evade and then try to outplay
I hardly sprint at all though, only use it to help with jumps around the map
BR is the primary weapon being used yes. But the others are used in their niche roles as well. Many people like AR starts and their only reasoning is "but variety!" I just happen to think the game plays a lot better with BR starts. I'd rather have the same fun gameplay over and over again than mediocre gameplay with more gun variety.
Your opinion is fine. Luckily for you 343 acknowledges this opinion also. 2 playlists is fine but it risks splitting the userbase. Me having a BR start only world is just my dream.
I only hope they finally manage a Halo game right after 10 years. Stop with the AR starts on bigger maps. Put BR starts on objective like Bungie realized a few years ago.
JimiNutz
Banned
Maybe it's because I'm not that great of a player but I find myself actually passing on picking up the BR because the AR and Pistol are so strong.
The power of the AR almost makes the BR pointless for me. The BR becomes more of a support weapon that I use to clean up/steal kills from affar.
One vs one I actually fancy my chances with the AR over the BR as the kill times seem just as fast with that weapon and you've got a bigger margin for error due to not having to land headshots.
Maybe I just need to get better with the BR but right now the AR seems just as good as not better than the BR over anything other than really long range (where people can just sprint away anyway).
Unless you're stealing kills from afar the majority of kills in Halo 5 seem to take place far more frequently at close and medium range where the AR or Pistol is an absolute beast...
For me that's making the BR and DMR almost feel kind of pointless right now.
KidA Seven
Member
If matchmaking works as intended there is no point to having two separate slayers. If people can't use a BR, they will play against others who can't use a BR. Players at that skill level won't choose the BR and if they do, they will most likely miss shots making the AR more viable at that skill level. Splitting up the player base isn't the answer.
Twilight Gap
Member
Ideally, players would spawn with a 4sk pistol and pick up a 4sk BR (with a slightly slower rate of fire) to use at longer ranges. The burst is what prevents it from being a mini sniper.
DMR would be removed. It's redundant and breaks long range engagements.
ARs would be powerful and placed on the map.
SMGs would be dual wieldable.
There. Unique weapons without forcing people to spawn with weapons that are held back for the sake of forcing variety in a redundant sandbox.
Maybe the reason we're still having the AR/BR debate 10 years later is because nothing different has been tried.
DMR would be removed. It's redundant and breaks long range engagements.
ARs would be powerful and placed on the map.
SMGs would be dual wieldable.
There. Unique weapons without forcing people to spawn with weapons that are held back for the sake of forcing variety in a redundant sandbox.
Maybe the reason we're still having the AR/BR debate 10 years later is because nothing different has been tried.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
BR starts would bug me because they would render the pistol useless. I personally would like to see pistol only starts. The AR is powerful enough to be a pickup, the pistol requires skill and is strong enough to go against a BR at close/mid range.
But I realize many people out there prefer BR starts; there should be at least one playlist with BR/DMR starts only.
But I realize many people out there prefer BR starts; there should be at least one playlist with BR/DMR starts only.
Gee, I don't know? Maybe because the weapons are balanced enough, and there's enough rifles around the map that you don't need them at spawn?
On each map I'd easily guess that there's 6-8 rifle spawns.
Pistol can kill quicker than the BR assuming you land all your shots.
I actually love it as a secondary because its the fastest weapon you can switch to and fire immediatley.
The Antitype
Banned
I love how KDA is the default stat now.
It's like they know how much of a chaotic, broken, elegance-free cluster-fuck this game is, so they figure 'yeah, we'll give you credit for assists too, cause chances are you're as likely to die from a random stray auto-rifle bullet as you are a precision head-shot'.
Ugh.
It's like they know how much of a chaotic, broken, elegance-free cluster-fuck this game is, so they figure 'yeah, we'll give you credit for assists too, cause chances are you're as likely to die from a random stray auto-rifle bullet as you are a precision head-shot'.
Ugh.
Garrett 2U
Member
I was thinking about this idea earlier today, I'd love it.
Sadly I don't think it'll ever happen because it's not 'action-packed' enough.
The closest we'll come to it is with a slightly nerfed AR. Back to Halo CE roots.
I think if the Halo 5 AR was nerfed a decent amount, the sandbox would be great.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Anyone else getting network error messages now?
Cant even find MCC matches now.
Cant even find MCC matches now.
TheGreyHulk
Member
No way. Screw BR starts. I loved them in h2/h3, but only because the AR/SMG were complete shit. They were absolute dog shit before and now they finally have a roll.
If you're 2 on 1, you should lose unless you got some skills to get out of that situation. Use your nades, terrain, movement to your advantage. The AR isn't even THAT over powered at all. People are just used to it being complete dog shit before and losing to an AR makes it seem like it's OP. It's fine as is.
dragonelite
Member
So did they explained what the number under the skull means.
Im hovering between 6.5 ~ 7.0 depending how well i perform.
Welfare
Member
Number of rifles on map can be changed, and I want a reliable weapon at spawn. AR starts are not good, and are terrible from my experience facing Onyx tier players and above.
343 are joke developers. They cannot even build a game that can backout to the main menu.
Not only have they ruined Halo but time again shows they cannot build the simplest of tasks. MCC still has issues today.
This beta is unplayable with a party. Spent all day today playing friends and it was hell. After EVERY game, when someone drops out in the lobby, it says searching for players and it takes forever. Like 10 minutes, then after failure, an error message pops up, and you spend another 4 minutes on a black screen, yes staring at a black screen returning to the main menu. The only way to bypass this is you literally need to go to the dashboard and reload the game after EVERY single game, and that takes literally another 3-5 minutes or more by the time other players are ready and joining, and what is working. THERE IS NO WAY TO BACK OUT TO THE MAIN MENU and restart search when in a party after a game. Wtf? Every game released on a console, you can go back to the main menu. The time spent is ridiculous probably averaging 2 games an hour because of this problem.
Other issues are invites don't work. My friend invites me but they join me lol. The game will honest to god search by itself when in a party. Me and my friends are in a party setting up and it just keeps searching after every time we stop it. Another incidence is I was in a party of 3, I search, and it brings me to a lobby but not my friends. Great, by the time I backed out, I waited another 4 minutes.
They had a week to fix this...................
Not only have they ruined Halo but time again shows they cannot build the simplest of tasks. MCC still has issues today.
This beta is unplayable with a party. Spent all day today playing friends and it was hell. After EVERY game, when someone drops out in the lobby, it says searching for players and it takes forever. Like 10 minutes, then after failure, an error message pops up, and you spend another 4 minutes on a black screen, yes staring at a black screen returning to the main menu. The only way to bypass this is you literally need to go to the dashboard and reload the game after EVERY single game, and that takes literally another 3-5 minutes or more by the time other players are ready and joining, and what is working. THERE IS NO WAY TO BACK OUT TO THE MAIN MENU and restart search when in a party after a game. Wtf? Every game released on a console, you can go back to the main menu. The time spent is ridiculous probably averaging 2 games an hour because of this problem.
Other issues are invites don't work. My friend invites me but they join me lol. The game will honest to god search by itself when in a party. Me and my friends are in a party setting up and it just keeps searching after every time we stop it. Another incidence is I was in a party of 3, I search, and it brings me to a lobby but not my friends. Great, by the time I backed out, I waited another 4 minutes.
They had a week to fix this...................
Yes. KDA is an amazing measuring stick. Assists have always been so important in Halo, but they were always placed in the background for most players. Now people will put shots on players that they feel are impossible to kill so they can get an assist and help out their team.
Garrett 2U
Member
I'm not trying to excuse 343 after Halo MCC... But if the biggest issues with a game are UI related, in large scale public beta, and there's a year until launch, then the games in a really good spot development wise.
I'm onyx and I've found the assault rifle the most used weapon. Not because it's over powered, but because it's a reliable spawn weapon, and sadly some players are claiming is overpowered.
MY biggest fear is that people are trying to turn this game into Halo 2, and with their complaints they're going to have the assault rifle and SMG nerfed because they want this a BR/DMR only game. NO! We've played that halo already -- TWICE. I LOVE Halo 2 and Halo 3, but I've already experienced that game style enough, and I still have it in Halo MCC (when it's fixed). I want Halo 5. I want it really bad. I really, really like what it's doing.
Twilight Gap
Member
i'm glad most of my issues with the game are simple fixes. i tihnk the only inherent thing i have a big problem with are the maps so far. i don't imagine they'll be getting geometry tweaks :/
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Initial first impressions....
This is what modern Halo should be -- just a few tweaks here and there will perfect this new formula.
With that said, this game could REALLY benefit from just total controller mapping. I think if 343 wants to create a tightly focused competitive Halo built for esports then this is almost a must.
Also, I haven't had much experience with the ranking system but I kinda wish there was one more rank (maybe platinum?) and I hope that the ranking system still has some tuning to go based on impressions I'm hearing. I like/love the idea of the Pro Divisions (Semi-Pro and Pro) but I think most players should average out at around silver with gold being relatively difficult to get into and onyx being really hard to get into (basically almost what a 50 would be in at least Halo 3). I'm also not really a huge fans of seasons where ranks reset, so I hope that Halo 5 doesn't include seasons that reset ranks.
Furthermore, there really needs to be weapon icons and I don't think there should be weapon waypoints to the power weapons. I think that bit of information should be expected knowledge from the player BUT I do like the weapon timer call outs. I'm also not a huge fan of the kill-cam so I think that's something that should definitely go.
Overall, these are my main issues right now with the beta, and there's certainly time to fix all of that if 343 so desires, but Halo 5 is definitely the first-step for 343 to truly make something as great as the Bungie Halo games but also something that 343 can call their own because it still (so far) lives up to what Halo was and respects that but also brings with it new things that make sense.
This is what modern Halo should be -- just a few tweaks here and there will perfect this new formula.
With that said, this game could REALLY benefit from just total controller mapping. I think if 343 wants to create a tightly focused competitive Halo built for esports then this is almost a must.
Also, I haven't had much experience with the ranking system but I kinda wish there was one more rank (maybe platinum?) and I hope that the ranking system still has some tuning to go based on impressions I'm hearing. I like/love the idea of the Pro Divisions (Semi-Pro and Pro) but I think most players should average out at around silver with gold being relatively difficult to get into and onyx being really hard to get into (basically almost what a 50 would be in at least Halo 3). I'm also not really a huge fans of seasons where ranks reset, so I hope that Halo 5 doesn't include seasons that reset ranks.
Furthermore, there really needs to be weapon icons and I don't think there should be weapon waypoints to the power weapons. I think that bit of information should be expected knowledge from the player BUT I do like the weapon timer call outs. I'm also not a huge fan of the kill-cam so I think that's something that should definitely go.
Overall, these are my main issues right now with the beta, and there's certainly time to fix all of that if 343 so desires, but Halo 5 is definitely the first-step for 343 to truly make something as great as the Bungie Halo games but also something that 343 can call their own because it still (so far) lives up to what Halo was and respects that but also brings with it new things that make sense.
There are a TON of issues of the actual game I did not write about (Halo is ruined). If they cannot include a back out to the main menu feature, something that is in every game in a public beta then I question their competence and ability, especially after MCC. If you played it, you would understand. Invites don't work, parties don't work, menu functions don't work and it is not a surprise to have 2 matches in one hour, that is not satisfactory. This is stuff that should not be riddles in 2014. Look at other betas like Evolve where basis things functioned properly as it should, and this does not.
The Antitype
Banned
There's a lot of work to be done on this game.
A lot.
If it ships in anywhere near it's current state of balance and design, it will be destroyed by whatever the latest COD is, and probably a Titan Fall sequel too.
It would make the Halo 4 population numbers curve look like a gentle decline.
A lot.
If it ships in anywhere near it's current state of balance and design, it will be destroyed by whatever the latest COD is, and probably a Titan Fall sequel too.
It would make the Halo 4 population numbers curve look like a gentle decline.
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