Support NeoGAF

[E92 M3]

Did we really reach the point where we call people camping with these auto weapons a "good player"? I refuse to believe that. lol

A good player is someone that knows what to do in multiple situations and sometimes it's sitting back and baiting. Judging on how the best play this game, I would say it's very balanced (and they seem to agree). The game passes the hardest scrutiny, and it doesn't really matter what we find annoying or not fun.

Decision making is a very important aspect of Halo 5 - maybe even more so than aiming. Knowing when to camp and not detract from the team can be an important decision.

That's my view on things.

Who can't utilize a SR? That doesn't make it any less of a frustrating weapon that is far too prevalent on every map it's on. Empire SH is nades & SR's for days, it's fucking terrible.

It can be helpful when the whole other team has power weapon control. And yeah, it can get annoying I agree. Just very weary of making sandbox changes - I didn't see any glaring issues with X-Games.

 

[pieface]

If your MMR is high enough from last season there is no reason for it to it not match you up against onyx players. Every single placement match I have played this season has been against 1700+ onyx and champion players.

#gitgud

Sorry, but I've seen this quoted a few times and I think it's bollocks. When i'm going 5-17 in game there is every reason for it to not match me against Onyx players.

I spent the whole of the January season is Diamond1 getting absolutely trashed because it wouldn't drop me down to platinum. I'd win the occasional game, but that's cos my teammates would carry me. There's no way I should be anywhere near Onyx players. However the MMR is worked out is broken imo.

 

[Sikamikanico]

Sure, it's not the end of the world but when a corporation waves it in our faces that this game will have dedicated servers, we expect no lag or issues regarding latency to be assocaited with these dedicated servers.

If they never touted the whole 'must run on dedicated servers' then maybe a few of us wouldn't be bitching about the lag.

But as an EU player the experience with Halo 5 is light years ahead of any previous Halo game, so much so that I think it's great. Whereas before 16 player customs were laggy nonsense, now they are buttery smooth.

All I'm saying is the dedis are good for the most part, not bad. And when they're bad? They're still better than any previous Halo game.

 

[maximrace]

How is this even possible? Cheater?
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/maximrace/screenshot/3878339

 

[Ramirez]

Sorry, but I've seen this quoted a few times and I think it's bollocks. When i'm going 5-17 in game there is every reason for it to not match me against Onyx players.

I spent the whole of the January season is Diamond1 getting absolutely trashed because it wouldn't drop me down to platinum. I'd win the occasional game, but that's cos my teammates would carry me. There's no way I should be anywhere near Onyx players. However the MMR is worked out is broken imo.

What was your winning percentage at the end of the season?

 

[Welfare]

How is this even possible? Cheater?
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/maximrace/screenshot/3878339

Nah it's possible. He looks to be a really good player. His SC is The Sauna.

 

[Akai__]

A good player is someone that knows what to do in multiple situations and sometimes it's sitting back and baiting. Judging on how the best play this game, I would say it's very balanced (and they seem to agree). The game passes the hardest scrutiny, and it doesn't really matter what we find annoying or not fun.

Decision making is a very important aspect of Halo 5 - maybe even more so than aiming. Knowing when to camp and not detract from the team can be an important decision.

That's my view on things.

Prior Halo games didn't need strong auto weapons for this. And if they would remove those weapons and radar, you would see that it would stay the same, but without those annoying weapons that take 0 skill to use.

How is this even possible? Cheater?
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/maximrace/screenshot/3878339

He is from the Spartan Company that has a 89% win ratio in Warzone. Their squad had 700 wins and 3 losses at some point.

Oh and you can't really cheat on the Xbox One yet, thankfully.

 

[Strider]

Nah it's possible. He looks to be a really good player. His SC is The Sauna.

69/100 members in that SC are Champion. Geez lol

 

[Trup1aya]

I find it less enjoyable with radar, so...why do I care? lol

Lol I mean. The majority of the player base is below onyx. These are the ones who make the game a worthwhile business venture... Gotta keep them happy.

I bet there are even a few onyx players who wouldn't be there if not for Radar.

This is lowest common denominator stuff. I'd be fine with tweaks for pro tourneys. But MM needs to be like this.

Edit: For the record, I think the SR needs a nerf. I think the pistol TTK should be the basis for all other weapons, and .92s is way too low for a weapon that has no trade offs until AFTER the target is dead.

Either it needs to overheat more quickly. or have it be good against shields, but do less health damage.

 

[VincentMatts]

Man i cant wait for the assault gametypes! Now i just need real BTB maps and im set.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

69/100 members in that SC are Champion. Geez lol

Right, i was about to say that too.. only 9 of the 100 are not Onyx or Champion. lol

22 Onyx.
69 Champion.

 

[E92 M3]

Prior Halo games didn't need strong auto weapons for this. And if they would remove those weapons and radar, you would see that it would stay the same, but without those annoying weapons that take 0 skill to use.



He is from the Spartan Company that has a 89% win ratio in Warzone. Their squad had 700 wins and 3 losses at some point.

Oh and you can't really cheat on the Xbox One yet, thankfully.

The problem is that your definition of skill is very narrow. Aiming is important, yes, but the majority of good players are good because of their ability to make correct decisions and plays. Map positioning is vastly important as well. Finally, I did not agree that with prior Halo games the sandbox was very limited. Halo 2 was still great, but it as just BR, rockets and snipers 95% of the time.

 

[Forerunner]

Well I finally did it, Onyx! Took me exactly 150 games of solo with a 54% w/l to get from D2 to Onyx. It’s nice to finally get there. Yes I know play for fun, but I had a goal this season and that was to hit Onyx. I’ll continue to play TS throughout the season, however, not as much. A lot of my games were really close (five or so kill difference) and it’s just really draining for me to always play really competitive matches like this. In the end it was worth, overall it made me a better player.

 

[E92 M3]

Well I finally did it, Onyx! Took me exactly 150 games of solo with a 54% w/l to get from D2 to Onyx. It’s nice to finally get there. Yes I know play for fun, but I had a goal this season and that was to hit Onyx. I’ll continue to play TS throughout the season, however, not as much. A lot of my games were really close (five or so kill difference) and it’s just really draining for me to always play really competitive matches like this. In the end it was worth, overall it made me a better player.

Congrats it's a good feeling indeed.

 

[maximrace]

He is from the Spartan Company that has a 89% win ratio in Warzone. Their squad had 700 wins and 3 losses at some point.

Oh and you can't really cheat on the Xbox One yet, thankfully.

Damn lol we should try that with gaf

 

[Akai__]

The problem is that your definition of skill is very narrow. Aiming is important, yes, but the majority of good players are good because of their ability to make correct decisions and plays. Map positioning is vastly important as well. Finally, I did not agree that with prior Halo games the sandbox was very limited. Halo 2 was still great, but it as just BR, rockets and snipers 95% of the time.

A weapon taking 0 skill is not my definition of skill. Of course you still need map control, power weapon control, pick-up control and a coupple other things. But all those can be achieved without these auto weapons, like I said. Camping with auto weapons + radar will never be in my definition of "competetive". Nor will running arround with Camo + Sword/Shotgun, but that's an other story.

Well I finally did it, Onyx! Took me exactly 150 games of solo with a 54% w/l to get from D2 to Onyx. It’s nice to finally get there. Yes I know play for fun, but I had a goal this season and that was to hit Onyx. I’ll continue to play TS throughout the season, however, not as much. A lot of my games were really close (five or so kill difference) and it’s just really draining for me to always play really competitive matches like this. In the end it was worth, overall it made me a better player.

Congrats. Seems like you are close to my stats, when I reached Onyx.

Damn lol we should try that with gaf

We were pretty close on Saturday. We dropped like 3-4 games that night and won all others.

 

[E92 M3]

A weapon taking 0 skill is not my definition of skill. Of course you still need map control, power weapon control, pick-up control and a coupple other things. But all those can be achieved without these auto weapons, like I said. Camping with auto weapons + radar will never be in my definition of "competetive".



Congrats. Seems like you are close to my stats, when I reached Onyx.



We were pretty close on Saturday. We dropped like 3-4 games that night and won all others.

I shall agree to disagree

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Well I finally did it, Onyx! Took me exactly 150 games of solo with a 54% w/l to get from D2 to Onyx. It’s nice to finally get there. Yes I know play for fun, but I had a goal this season and that was to hit Onyx. I’ll continue to play TS throughout the season, however, not as much. A lot of my games were really close (five or so kill difference) and it’s just really draining for me to always play really competitive matches like this. In the end it was worth, overall it made me a better player.

I've played against that Numbers guy before.

Seems like we connect to the same servers or something.

Congrats on the grind!!!

 

[BraXzy]

Nah it's possible. He looks to be a really good player. His SC is The Sauna.

Hot damn, on top of the impressive amount of Champions, they are 7/31 of the way there for the Achilles helmet.

 

[Forerunner]

Congrats it's a good feeling indeed.

Congrats. Seems like you are close to my stats, when I reached Onyx.

I've played against that Numbers guy before.

Seems like we connect to the same servers or something.

Congrats on the grind!!!

Thanks!

That Numbers guy is a quitter from what I've seen. Played him the match before and the score was 48-46 and he ended up quitting before the loss. So seeing him lose again is funny in my book. Also you’re from Colorado, so you probably play on the west coast servers. That’s why we see the same people.

 

[Strider]

Well I finally did it, Onyx! Took me exactly 150 games of solo with a 54% w/l to get from D2 to Onyx. It’s nice to finally get there. Yes I know play for fun, but I had a goal this season and that was to hit Onyx. I’ll continue to play TS throughout the season, however, not as much. A lot of my games were really close (five or so kill difference) and it’s just really draining for me to always play really competitive matches like this. In the end it was worth, overall it made me a better player.

grats

Feels good to solo your way to onyx. You did it a lot faster than I did. I'd have to find the post I made but I'm pretty sure it took me like 350 games or something from Diamond 1

And about ~400 games total since I started at Plat 1. I improved a lot in that time period though.

 

[Ramirez]

Man i cant wait for the assault gametypes! Now i just need real BTB maps and im set.

I wouldn't hold my breath on those "real" BTB maps, heh.

 

[VincentMatts]

So i had the best game of warzone ever, save the video, start watching it and i cant find my name in the match....

I wouldn't hold my breath on those "real" BTB maps, heh.

Too much to ask for i know. God forbid i can get what every Halo game has had before.

 

[Akai__]

So i had the best game of warzone ever, save the video, start watching it and i cant find my name in the match....

Did you JIP? Because this is what happens, if you do.

Theater is the worst it has ever been, because it's pulling from the server instead from your personal replay.

 

[BTM]

I wouldn't hold my breath on those "real" BTB maps, heh.

I've already accepted that we probably will only get forge creations at least for a couple months.

 

[VincentMatts]

Did you JIP? Because this is what happens, if you do.

Theater is the worst it has ever been, because it's pulling from the server instead from your personal replay.

No i was there from the beginning.

 

[Ramirez]

I've already accepted that we probably will only get forge creations at least for a couple months.

For a couple months? Probably forever.

There's little incentive to create dev maps for a playlist that isn't popular when they could instead make more WZ maps and get more REQ money.

 

[belushy]

Forge BTB maps will probably be better gameplay wise than anything 343 makes but of course people are so hung up on graphics lol

 

[Welfare]

For a couple months? Probably forever.

There's little incentive to create dev maps for a playlist that isn't popular when they could instead make more WZ maps and get more REQ money.

"Isn't popular"

Wonder why that would be when BTB was in top 3 playlist in the last few Halo games...

 

[VincentMatts]

For a couple months? Probably forever.

There's little incentive to create dev maps for a playlist that isn't popular when they could instead make more WZ maps and get more REQ money.

Isnt popular but wont put porperly designed map in it? BTB has always been one of the most popular halo gametypes. Theyre purposely not putting proper maps cause they want people to play WZ and buy those stupid fucking req cards. its quite obvious.

 

[op_ivy]

For a couple months? Probably forever.

There's little incentive to create dev maps for a playlist that isn't popular when they could instead make more WZ maps and get more REQ money.

and copy and paste bases make that all the more easier

 

[OverHeat]

Almost over with my collection....
http://youtu.be/5VZDw_dfQ_s

Come on 343i sell the halo championship req pack again!

 

[Ramirez]

"Isn't popular"

Wonder why that would be when BTB was in top 3 playlist in the last few Halo games...

Can we blame it on map quality? Because Halo 4's maps were god awful & Reach's BTB was probably the worst in the series.

I think Halo 5's sandbox is pretty bad for standard 8v8 on BTB size maps, personally. The BR is way too good to start with, and just brings the whole experience down for me.

Isnt popular but wont put porperly designed map in it? BTB has always been one of the most popular halo gametypes. Theyre purposely not putting proper maps cause they want people to play WZ and buy those stupid fucking req cards. its quite obvious.

Well, it is a business after all, and it's looking quite successful for them.

 

[VincentMatts]

Can we blame it on map quality? Because Halo 4's maps were god awful & Reach's BTB was probably the worst in the series.

I think Halo 5's sandbox is pretty bad for standard 8v8 on BTB size maps, personally. The BR is way too good to start with, and just brings the whole experience down for me.



Well, it is a business after all, and it's looking quite successful for them.

Since when is dumbing down (and halfassing) something that was always popular in order to force people into something else good business?

Good business would be to put the same effort into BTB that you would into everything else you do. That shows you care about your fans and you product. Thats good business. I mean hell, why even bother putting arena maps at this point? Doesnt make them a dime.

This is why 343 to me will never bring halo back to where it used to be popularity wise. They half ass shit. Bungie might not have always hit a home run, but i never felt like they half assed shit or modes to push me into their money making ones. Not in halo anyway.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Yeah, BTB will continue to be Forge creations from the community.
The only DEV made maps i see coming are for Arena and Warzone.

The grifball map will be nokyards creation in forge. Well that is what i gathered from friday's post.

Since when is dumbing down (and halfassing) something that was always popular in order to force people into something else good business?

Good business would be to put the same effort into BTB that you would into everything else you do. That shows you care about your fans and you product. Thats good business. I mean hell, why even bother putting arena maps at this point? Doesnt make them a dime.

This is why 343 to me will never bring halo back to where it used to be popularity wise. They half ass shit. Bungie might not have always hit a home run, but i never felt like they half assed shit or modes to push me into their money making ones. Not in halo anyway.

Arena = HCS??? How does that not benefit them?

 

[Forerunner]

I always enjoyed BTB the most, but in H5 it’s been eh so far. I don’t know if it’s the map size or the spawns, but it’s pretty underwhelming. Like where are all the vehicles? Most of the maps just have Warthog, Ghost, and Mongoose. I’m hoping Community BTB has some good stuff. From what I’ve seen of the forge it should, much better than the maps they released.

 

[Ramirez]

Since when is dumbing down (and halfassing) something that was always popular in order to force people into something else good business?

Good business would be to put the same effort into BTB that you would into everything else you do. That shows you care about your fans and you product. Thats good business. I mean hell, why even bother putting arena maps at this point? Doesnt make them a dime.

This is why 343 to me will never bring halo back to where it used to be popularity wise. They half ass shit. Bungie might not have always hit a home run, but i never felt like they half assed shit or modes to push me into their money making ones. Not in halo anyway.

Uhh, they shipped Reach with a ton of Forge maps and pushed them as dev maps in the official map count. BTB suffered tremendously for Invasion, a terrible game mode in all aspects.

It's good business because it's bringing in money to allow them to offer a large prize pool for their pro circuit and give people free DLC.

WZ has replaced BTB as Halo's premiere large player count game mode. I doubt that changes moving forward because WZ is the number one playlist and is bringing them in tons of money, it's a no brainer on their end.

 

[jem0208]

A good player is someone that knows what to do in multiple situations and sometimes it's sitting back and baiting. Judging on how the best play this game, I would say it's very balanced (and they seem to agree). The game passes the hardest scrutiny, and it doesn't really matter what we find annoying or not fun.

Decision making is a very important aspect of Halo 5 - maybe even more so than aiming. Knowing when to camp and not detract from the team can be an important decision.

That's my view on things.



It can be helpful when the whole other team has power weapon control. And yeah, it can get annoying I agree. Just very weary of making sandbox changes - I didn't see any glaring issues with X-Games.

Wait, are you arguing for both radar and easy to use autos? Seriously?

There are many demonstrable reasons why both reduce the skill ceiling, it's not even subjective.

Radar is literally a crutch designed to help lesser skilled players. It reduces the player agency and stifles creative movement whilst encouraging camping. It gives a massive amount of information away to a player for no penalty and it actively reduces the skill in decision making. Knowing when to sit back and bait rather than push requires more game knowledge and awareness when radar is disabled than it does when enabled.

No radar increases both the solo and teamwork skill ceiling, it allows for effective flanking maneuvers, forces players to be far more aware of enemy positions and movements, and encourages far more communication between team members.


The reason easy to use autos are not skillful is bloody obvious, making them require more skill to use effectively or replacing them outright would be a far more preferable solution to what we have currently.

 

[VincentMatts]

I always enjoyed BTB the most, but in H5 it’s been eh so far. I don’t know if it’s the map size or the spawns, but it’s pretty underwhelming. Like where are all the vehicles? Most of the maps just have Warthog, Ghost, and Mongoose. I’m hoping Community BTB has some good stuff. From what I’ve seen of the forge it should, much better than the maps they released.

Its the maps. I was always a big BTB guy and now i cant touch it anymore cause of the maps.

 

[Trup1aya]

For a couple months? Probably forever.

There's little incentive to create dev maps for a playlist that isn't popular when they could instead make more WZ maps and get more REQ money.

I don't think having proper BTB maps would lower their Req$ potential. In order to sell Reqs, they need players to want to play the game. And keeping these players means having the maps and modes to satisfy them, even if they are leaving Warzone occasionally.

That said, if they are heavily invested in creating Warzone maps, I don't see it. We've got 4 maps, and the majority of your time is spent fighting in the same 3 prefab buildings over and over.

I don't think this content issue is a matter of incentive... It seems to be a pipeline issue...the my hired all these contractors to make MCC, when they should have been making Halo5.

I also think that someone at 343 was convinced that Warzone would replace BTB in the eyes of the users.

 

[Ramirez]

I don't think having proper BTB maps would lower their Req$ potential. In order to sell Reqs, they need players to want to play the game. And keeping these players means having the maps and modes to satisfy them, even if they are leaving Warzone occasionally.

That said, if they are heavily invested in creating Warzone maps, I don't see it. We've got 4 maps, and the majority of your time is spent fighting in the same 3 prefab buildings over and over.

I don't think this content issue is a matter of incentive... It seems to be a pipeline issue...the my hired all these contractors to make MCC, when they should have been making Halo5.

I also think that someone at 343 was convinced that Warzone would replace BTB in the eyes of the users.

It already has, lol. Some of you don't want to come to grips with it, but WZ is the big team gametype moving forward for the future.

 

[blue_phazon]

Wait, are you arguing for both radar and easy to use autos? Seriously?

There are many demonstrable reasons why both reduce the skill ceiling, it's not even subjective.

Radar is literally a crutch designed to help lesser skilled players. It reduces the player agency and stifles creative movement whilst encouraging camping. It gives a massive amount of information away to a player for no penalty and it actively reduces the skill in decision making. Knowing when to sit back and bait rather than push requires more game knowledge and awareness when radar is disabled than it does when enabled.

No radar increases both the solo and teamwork skill ceiling, it allows for effective flanking maneuvers, forces players to be far more aware of enemy positions and movements, and encourages far more communication between team members.


The reason easy to use autos are not skillful is bloody obvious, making them require more skill to use effectively or replacing them outright would be a far more preferable solution to what we have currently.

You're definitely right about the autos being too powerful, but I feel like radar is necessary for this game in particular because then it would be too easy to spartan charge people

 

[jem0208]

You're definitely right about the autos being too powerful, but I feel like radar is necessary for this game in particular because then it would be too easy to spartan charge people

Spartan charge is a whole other issue.

Honestly I'd be happy if they straight up removed it. It is literally just sprint melee and it has basically no redeeming qualities.

Keeping one bad mechanic to patch up another bad mechanic is not good.

 

[E92 M3]

Wait, are you arguing for both radar and easy to use autos? Seriously?

There are many demonstrable reasons why both reduce the skill ceiling, it's not even subjective.

Radar is literally a crutch designed to help lesser skilled players. It reduces the player agency and stifles creative movement whilst encouraging camping. It gives a massive amount of information away to a player for no penalty and it actively reduces the skill in decision making. Knowing when to sit back and bait rather than push requires more game knowledge and awareness when radar is disabled than it does when enabled.

No radar increases both the solo and teamwork skill ceiling, it allows for effective flanking maneuvers, forces players to be far more aware of enemy positions and movements, and encourages far more communication between team members.


The reason easy to use autos are not skillful is bloody obvious, making them require more skill to use effectively or replacing them outright would be a far more preferable solution to what we have currently.

When I make these arguments it's not about what I want. Certain crutches allow newer players to have a good time. Halo is not only about catering to what we want as avid players. That's why we have professional tournaments where everything can be tweaked.

 

[blue_phazon]

Spartan charge is a whole other issue.

Honestly I'd be happy if they straight up removed it. It is literally just sprint melee and it has basically no redeeming qualities.

Keeping one bad mechanic to patch up another bad mechanic is not good.

I actually like spartan charge which is why I don't mind radar.

The charge is great for getting over gaps when you don't want to waste a thrust

 

[Ramirez]

You're definitely right about the autos being too powerful, but I feel like radar is necessary for this game in particular because then it would be too easy to spartan charge people

If SC was as big of an issue as some of you say it is, our commendation would have been maxed a long time ago, and yet we're struggling to finish Rank 2, lol.

 

[jem0208]

When I make these arguments it's not about what I want. Certain crutches allow newer players to have a good time. Halo is not only about catering to what we want as avid players. That's why we have professional tournaments where everything can be tweaked.

Add a social playlist with autos and radar, let new players learn the game and increase their skill level in that. Remove them (or perhaps tweak in the case of autos) from ranked arena.

Definitely remove them from the pro settings. I'll be disappointed if in the next season of HCS we still have radar and the SR.

I actually like spartan charge which is why I don't mind radar.

If SC was as big of an issue as some of you say it is, our commendation would have been maxed a long time ago, and yet we're struggling to finish Rank 2, lol.

This is also true. Removing radar isn't suddenly going to make SC super powerful. It's annoying in it's current state but I wouldn't say it's over powered at all.

 

[Magwik]

Spartan charge is a whole other issue.

Honestly I'd be happy if they straight up removed it. It is literally just sprint melee and it has basically no redeeming qualities.

Keeping one bad mechanic to patch up another bad mechanic is not good.

It's whole purpose is to eliminate and negate sprint beat downs. It's a cool counter measure to an abuse of the sprint mechanic in the last two games

 

[jem0208]

It's whole purpose is to eliminate and negate sprint beat downs. It's a cool counter measure to an abuse of the sprint mechanic in the last two games

It doesn't exactly succeed then considering it encourages exactly that.

 

[VincentMatts]

Uhh, they shipped Reach with a ton of Forge maps and pushed them as dev maps in the official map count. BTB suffered tremendously for Invasion, a terrible game mode in all aspects.

It's good business because it's bringing in money to allow them to offer a large prize pool for their pro circuit and give people free DLC.

WZ has replaced BTB as Halo's premiere large player count game mode. I doubt that changes moving forward because WZ is the number one playlist and is bringing them in tons of money, it's a no brainer on their end.

And it would be even more of a "no brainer" theyd include daily, weekly & monthly "bounties" so to speak that forced people to jump into those other modes like SP or BTB etc. that incited players to play them and do things in those modes so that they could then reward those players with req packs to then thus, ultimately bring them into that $$ mode regardless. Kinda like what they finally did with that daily win thing, only about 100 times better.

If they had half a clue, theyd expand on what they had and not strip it down and break it to the point where it forces people into warzone.

There are a lot of ways you can improve on all of your games mode without breaking it to the point where people dont wanna play those modes anymore.

No brainer is hardly the wording id use in their case there considering it just pisses off a lot of their core fans off doing it this way.

Theyre trying to bring back halo to where it used to be, not destroy what it used to be.