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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
I downloaded Halo 5 on my Xbox, once again.
After many months without playing this game, it's still a big disappointment. There really is nothing I truly like with this game.
I played a "Classic" game, thanks to the game browser, and it was enjoyable, but the AIM and the lack of magnetism (not bullet magnetism, aim magnetism) make it so hard (for me) to enjoy this game.
Now I'm back on the MCC, and For Honor, and I'm still having a blast how fun and cool the old Halo games, even Halo 4 tbh.
I can now tell for sure that if Halo 6 is somehow the same game as Halo 5, well, the Halo saga will continue without me (not a big lose haha).
Plus, I'm sad seeing Dan Ayoub leaving 343, it was one of the only that could bring me hope for the Halo Franchise (alongside Tom French).
After many months without playing this game, it's still a big disappointment. There really is nothing I truly like with this game.
I played a "Classic" game, thanks to the game browser, and it was enjoyable, but the AIM and the lack of magnetism (not bullet magnetism, aim magnetism) make it so hard (for me) to enjoy this game.
Now I'm back on the MCC, and For Honor, and I'm still having a blast how fun and cool the old Halo games, even Halo 4 tbh.
I can now tell for sure that if Halo 6 is somehow the same game as Halo 5, well, the Halo saga will continue without me (not a big lose haha).
Plus, I'm sad seeing Dan Ayoub leaving 343, it was one of the only that could bring me hope for the Halo Franchise (alongside Tom French).
Deputy Moonman
Member
Cross posting from the HCS thread since what I mentioned would legitimately get me excited to play some halo 5 again.
If this is true I might reinstall and play a little bit to see how it feels. Also, if it is true that Halo 6 won't be mentioned at E3, the best thing 343 can do is reveal a free map pack bonanza at e3 with a crap load of new dev made maps. I'm doing wishful thinking but it would be nice. A whole bunch of actual btb maps and a new fresh injection of good 4v4 maps. That along with the return of oddball and king of the hill would be pretty sick. Alas, I'm dreaming :*(
I think he's just talking about how much lighter the aim assist is compared to past games.
And I think that's one of the things a lot of players, competitive and casual alike, wanted. Sorry that you're struggling, Juan.
[EDIT] - Oh. And, uh... Hi, HaloGAF. Seems like it's been a while.
Oh actually, I'm not struggling that much, I'm still 1st or 2nd in a game with a decent ratio, it's just that it asks me to concentrate to much, and I'm not having fun.
I don't know for other players, but I played Halo because it was an excellent middle ground between easy-to-access-but-competitive kind of game, while Halo 5 doesn't seem to fit that role anymore.
I already heard people complaining about bullet magnetism, not so much about AIM assist (I'm talking from the casual side, I know competitive people will always ask for less AIM assist and magnetism, but we're not playing on a PC people), but still, even moving and aiming doesn't feel right in this game, I cannot really explain why, but each time I play a game on the MCC, even before having to face an opponent, I feel the AIM responsive and right, right from the start.
Not in Halo 5, with so many settings toward the AIM.
Plus, I don't really understand what an heavy AIM means. Maybe that's why I don't feel it right.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Could be the heavy aim, yeah. Going back to TMCC, the aiming feels responsive and snappy, but in H5 less so. There's an update coming, so hopefully it fixes the problem.
Maybe, just maybe, all these fuck ups will move us back to mlg where we belong
it's time for MS to seperate H6 multiplayer and make it free to play also form a new studio that handles it and release it on pc(steam)
Let 343 do single player
I get that. Not because of the aim assist, just the very competitive-tuned nature of the game in general. It can be exhausting to play for an extended amount of time:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=212398456#post212398456
It's a bug. Supposed to be fixed soon.
What? No. If anything, 343 has a solid mp but needs work on sp.
I read your post, and yeah, I agree.
In the past (and even on TMCC), I used to play hardcore playlist some of the time, because I loved how fast paced it was. The thing is Halo gave me both, fast and competitive play with the MLG settings, and a more chilled experience with the social slayer (even the ranked slayer felt like social compared to Halo 5 haha).
Even BTB feels like high-tension game most of the time.
But one thing I really appreciate with Halo 5 is actually watching high skilled players facing each other during HCS stream. Really fun to watch, maybe even more than Halo 2/3.
I wouldn't really call it solid tbh
I really like h5 multiplayer overall but let's not forget the lackluster launch, heavy aim fixed 1,5+ year after release and the poor track record with halo(4,mcc) releases so far, people don't really trust 343
I believe that if the multiplayer was free to play it would bring so many people in every region not US only, as long as they go back to a more simplified gameplay.
I take dota and lol as an example for the f2p model.
Make a good game with great support and release cosmetic MTs and there is a chance we get back to halo glory days
Edit: also they need to make the game playable at high skill level without having to buy elite or scuf controller.
Some jumps require sprint+thrust+slide+jump+hover+crouch spam, that's opposite of casual friendly
Fahzgoolin
Banned
My work around with some of Halo 5's aiming issues:
No matter what horizontal/vertical sensitivity you have, diagonal movement of the crosshair is oddly heavy in comparison to up/down movement. I found that using the elite controller app to change the "default" right stick setting to "aggressive" makes that issue go away...
So now I'm at 1 horizontal, 2/3 vertical, 4 acceleration, 0 deadzones, and "aggressive" right stick is what finally gets rid of much of the wonky heavy feeling.
Now my stick movements are snappy and I'm a lot more consistent and top fragging more frequently.
When strafe+jump+thrust happens so frequently, having a slow/heavy diagonal drag of your crosshair is the death of you, especially in close range.
No matter what horizontal/vertical sensitivity you have, diagonal movement of the crosshair is oddly heavy in comparison to up/down movement. I found that using the elite controller app to change the "default" right stick setting to "aggressive" makes that issue go away...
So now I'm at 1 horizontal, 2/3 vertical, 4 acceleration, 0 deadzones, and "aggressive" right stick is what finally gets rid of much of the wonky heavy feeling.
Now my stick movements are snappy and I'm a lot more consistent and top fragging more frequently.
When strafe+jump+thrust happens so frequently, having a slow/heavy diagonal drag of your crosshair is the death of you, especially in close range.
Had no idea "aggresive" and other elite settings was a thing. I'll check it out.
Please have a new elite revision fixing the shitty bumper build quality at e3.
Cool.. I'll have to give that a try.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
YourExWife
Member
Felt a little too jumpy aiming diagonally for me still.
Got my first snipetalaneous medal finally. Feels good.
BizzyBum
Member
But we don't need any more buckle u... ohhh.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
If it was up to me H5 would of been F2P at the one year mark.
Welfare
Member
Would never happen.
Halo isn't some PC MOBA and this isn't how AAA games work. Microsoft would never give up revenue on game sales and there is absolutely no reason for Halo 5 to go F2P. The game over a year after launch still hovers around the top 20 most played games. You don't see Ubisoft turning The Division F2P or EA with Titanfall 2.
What 343 needed to do with Halo 5 and hopefully learned for Halo 6 is more consistent content drops with more substance. If you plan on supporting a game for 3 years, don't blow everything in the first 8 months. Look at Rainbow Six Siege. A game that released two months after Halo 5 that started slow and is now hovering around the top 5 most played games on Xbox One.
Halo needs to fully adapt to the GaaS model or it will continue to lag in players and interest after launch.
Launching a very feature incomplete game is one of the reasons Halo 5 is so down. Had it launched the way we have it now, with full customs browsers, forge and file share, more than just a handful of maps, it would have done better. Every playlist was ranked only. BTB was cut for Warzone and yet Warzone launched with just 3 maps. Arena had shit like Orion and Pegasus early forge in heavy rotation. Hardly anything beyond CTF, Strongholds or Slayer in terms of game modes. In terms of campaign, no checkpoints, no scoring, no theatre, no weekly commendations or XP gains. So unless you wanted to play mp with others, you couldn't do anything on your own really. No split screen for customs even.
Halo 6 better launch with more bells and whistles than any other Halo game previously otherwise it is pretty much over. The fact more Halo fans and Xbox fans would rather play CoD, Overwatch, R6 Siege, Battlefield, Destiny and other shooters over Halo on an Xbox console says it all. Yes the other games are multiplatform, but what does that say that THE console FPS that pretty much made Xbox is an also-ran in the category.
Halo 6 better launch with more bells and whistles than any other Halo game previously otherwise it is pretty much over. The fact more Halo fans and Xbox fans would rather play CoD, Overwatch, R6 Siege, Battlefield, Destiny and other shooters over Halo on an Xbox console says it all. Yes the other games are multiplatform, but what does that say that THE console FPS that pretty much made Xbox is an also-ran in the category.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
If you keep it on aggressive and the diagonal is too twitchy, lower your vertical sensitivity. Worked for me anyways =/
Also, you can decrease the aggressive setting too with that line graph in the app.
Good post man...forgot about some of that.
My friends were crushed because it took way too long for a Team Doubles playlist to emerge. That's just sad...
And win10 halo 5 (wo matchmaking)
Poodlestrike
Banned
Adding them to Game Pass after a year or 2 makes the most sense to me.
ATOMICJORGE
Member
Achievement unlock Achilles helmet! hey HaloGaf congratulations to all of us to be honest I can't believe we actually got it haha I have been very busy on some new projects lately I'm starting to get some free time again I know we already got it but I still wanted to say congratulations to all of us
I would argue that not going f2p at some point is giving up revenue.
I wouldn't give the whole game away for free, but after a while Warzone + the HCS playlist would be free...
I'd rotate social playlists into the free game weekly.
People could then upgrade to the full game if they were to get hooked.
Welfare
Member
That can be accomplished with extreme price slashing during a deal or having one free weekend.
Word of mouth and good presence outside of the core audience is how you get new players hooked. Making part of the game F2P makes it look like Halo can't grow on its own and needs to be even more desperate to get new players.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
Dude the thing is, after 12 months the sales revenue has to be incredibly low. Game sales on console are super front loaded especially with a disappointing launch as H5. You are WAY better off making it f2p after a year and having a vibrant community with regular content, than milking the last cents with a dying playerbase which bleeds over into a bad ranking system, bad servers, lackluster/embarrassing tournament attendance and viewership etc.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Halo going f2p sounds like a defeatist idea. If you go f2p, WarZone ideas and vanity items will become a front and center focus, which sounds gross.
Game pass or MP only purchase package or just a price cut sounds better.
Agreed. F2p has to be designed from the ground up and must be done with care. You can damage a brand just as easily by bad f2p implementation. Slapping it on wouldn't be good and pre-planning a full price game to go f2p would cause a mass uproar.
Game pass or MP only purchase package or just a price cut sounds better.
Agreed. F2p has to be designed from the ground up and must be done with care. You can damage a brand just as easily by bad f2p implementation. Slapping it on wouldn't be good and pre-planning a full price game to go f2p would cause a mass uproar.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
Any of those 3 ideas are 100% better than what they are doing right now, which is sitting at the table watching someone choke to death.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I mean, can't you buy Halo 5 for about $20?
Welfare
Member
Sales revenue would only be low if sales are low, and in the current market you can have great legs for multiplayer titles if you support it. Actually look at what Halo 5 did versus other games and Halo 5 fucking sucks at being a GaaS. 343 only had enough content for the first year and didn't appropriately prepare for year 2 and 3.
What changes with Halo 5 going F2P? That doesn't get content that isn't planned to be made get made and you run the risk of going F2P not even bringing in enough players to offset the loss of game sale revenue with REQ revenue.
Halo 5 had a much bigger launch than RB6: Siege yet Siege has much better legs than Halo 5. Siege has a plan for all the years of support, Halo 5 blew its load in the first 8 months and relies on the community to add content while 343 does fucking nothing.
Going F2P gives the impression that the game failed. Just look at Evolve. You want the gaming community to think Halo can be like Siege, Overwatch, and CoD, or like Evolve?
ZeezbruhTV
Member
And sitting in 22nd place on XBL is inspiring confidence in the franchise? Atleast with F2P you have extra content (have to plan ahead, your right) low search times, less laggy games, ranking system working better and more popular tournaments. Right now H5 is in hospice, there was just much better options than what has happened.
Used at gamestop and amazon yeah. XBL digital copy is still $40, Target is $40 etc. I mean theres a tournament on RIGHT NOW, make it 75% off for the weeked, do another free weekend. DO SOMETHING.
YourExWife
Member
So the Simms insults thing was from us, right?
#WeFinallyMadeItBoys
#WeFinallyMadeItBoys
Welfare
Member
343 laid their bed by not having a content update in 5 months and having complete radio silence on when we should expect new content.
Even then, #22 is decent when you actually look at what is ahead of Halo 5. The top 3 sports games, 3 popular F2P titles (one that just released), a popular mod game, and multiplayer games that have recurring content on a regular basis. Halo 5 could easily be in the low 30's/40's along with Titanfall 2, Mass Effect, World of Tanks, ESO or even being beat by Gears 4.
Really all this proves is that despite the position Halo 5 is in, if 343 actually implemented more features and updates on a regular basis, it could easily be higher on the list. I mean, look at Horizon 3. Racing games are never that high up the most played list yet it is the best performing exclusive on the platform.
Actually, since I have some insight from Ubisoft (some friends are working there), I can tell you this is false.
Siege had content planned for like 8 months after launch, since Ubisoft wasn't sure it would work and sell well.
Siege went way above Ubi's expectation in term of sales and player retention, so they made a quick move by announcing new content (GaaS ofc) and they dedicated much more ressources and budget to Siege than they originally planned.
Sure, Halo 5 blow up its content after a year, but to be honest, this wasn't even true add-on, it was more about giving the player what Halo 5 was missing as key features from past games, plus new maps of course, that were welcome.
I'm not sure 343 really planned Halo 5 as GaaS, but more as a game they should add content that was already in the work, and giving some maps as they knew, from past Halo games, that DLCs weren't a great plan if you want to be alive for this generation (again, a generation focusing on GaaS for most of the games).
From now on, we can be sure Halo 5 won't sell much copies, so going F2P would be a great move, because 343 could then having a truly GaaS plan for the next 2 years before Halo 6, since they should give content to people playing Warzone to get player retention and make people buy REQs.
This would give new content for people that don't pay, and maybe increasing the Halo 5's player base population a lot, maybe giving new players an incentive to look at HCS.
Giving the Halo 5 MP as a F2P would be a great move from 343. Or at least just the Warzone part, since it's what resolve around the REQs.
Evolve was in a very different position. You need to see the market from the marketing perspective, and Halo 5 MP as a F2P could not only benefit the game, but the players, MS, maybe even HCS with good streaming equipments.
Forerunner
Member
H5 should have been on the Games with Gold. I mean they already make a shit ton of money from MT, they might as well.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Lol what he say?
Welfare
Member
Well then, Ubisoft was able to have content out for the first year and was able to plan out more content and communicate that with the audience. Something 343 failed to do.
That is why I was saying 343 needs to embrace GaaS even more than they attempted to.
Alright then, Halo 5 goes F2P. Why would anyone buy Halo 6 because they know that if the game fails, they'll get it for free? If Halo 5 goes F2P then Halo 6 would need to be F2P because it would make no sense for one game to be free with much more content and for the newest one to be $60 and would need to wait for it to catch up to the previous game's content amount.
Halo 5 is not designed to be F2P and barely has any of the features needed to be a game that incentivizes players coming back every day already.
Halo going F2P would completely change the marketing of the games and franchise that would not benefit MS at all. Halo 5 going F2P offers absolutely nothing to non players coming to the game, offers zero value to current players as no new REQs or content are added and Warzone would be the only mode that gets advertised because Microsoft would need to make money. If anything, Arena either gets the shit end of the stick in terms of updates to please F2P users in Warzone, or REQs come to Arena. HCS doesn't benefit at all because the new players aren't going to be seeing a Warzone tournament so why would they care any more than they do now?
There is absolutely no financial reasoning or success for MS to turn Halo 5 F2P. MS would never give up the revenue from game purchases in addition to REQ revenue.
Fata1moose
Banned
MCC hasn't even been on GWG yet, which is ridiculous as that game needs a population boost.
As a side note, I will just say that I'm not trying to convince you, seems we're all talking about speculation and you're already have your mind about this topic.
First, you're making an acception here that isn't (really) true, and you're not putting yourself in the average player's shoes: making a game F2P doesn't mean it has failed, well advertised, it will only be see as a move to offer a new direction to go for some players, and casual player who don't play Halo already will only see one thing = "Oh, a new multiplayer game for free? From a AAA? Oh it's only a part of the game? Nevermind, still a free FPS game with great content!"
Halo 5 as F2P would only give the multiplayer part, hell, even maybe just the Warzone part, so a new game brings new thing like campaign, for people that may be interested by more than the F2P part, and other multiplayer stuff, as Arena multiplayer.
So yeah, having a new game which is not F2P doesn't interfere with an already established IP. You can still sell a new game with good argument and good production.
Why do you think people will buy Destiny 2? Since from what we saw, it could even be just a DLC from Destiny 1. People aren't looking to the past, they still want new thing, and if you tell people a new game with new content is coming soon, they will move on.
Halo 5 already has borrowed feature from F2P, as daily free pack giveaway, MT related to consumable (Warzone weapons) and aesthetic (Armor given by Packs). Compare Halo 5 to Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Links if you have some time, you will see they are really close.
As I already said, having a game being F2P means changing the way you are building content around this idea. So if MS/343 were thinking about offering Halo 5 MP as a F2P, it of course means having a strategy around this, meaning providing new content to push player to buy REQs.
So yeah, of course it means offering value to current players since they could have access to content build from the ground to appeal a F2P player, but they could get it for free if they want too, since you can have REQs using in-game currency.
I don't know if you have been around Reddit a few days ago, there was an article saying that MS already made much more money from the REQs than selling DLC for Halo. So be sure they would see it as a good place to earn some $$$.
About the HCS part, it really easy to figure how bringing more players to you game, even the free part of it, can brings more player to your tournament, or at least, just making people speaking about it. Do I have to really explain this?
Do you think Halo 5 is still selling well? It's a real question I'm asking you. Do you think you can still make money from a game with poor rating from people's opinions? Or do you think letting people play you game as much as they want for free with good incentive to sell stuff with MT would be a lose?
The difference between letting people spending money on a free game versus having a 60$ wall in front of them is a game changer.
But hey, as I said, I'm not here to convince you, you seem to already have made your point. I'm just bringing you an opinion from someone who has been working in the industry, for paid and free product. Halo 5 MP going F2P is all speculation, so we won't know which one of us is right.
Edit: About the Ubisoft part, just think you're comparing a company having multiple studios for all kind of games, and sometimes studios working on a same game with more than 500 people, and a studio only working on a franchise, with limited time, budget, and a goal to bring a new game to Xbox to help Microsoft selling people Xbox (so not having the freedom to dedicated more than they can to create content).
Sorry for the mistakes, it's getting late here (France).
Welfare
Member
This discussion is a hypothetical, but yeah I think no matter what there is no reason for Halo to go F2P.
The average player already experiences free weekends and steep price drops. Why should Halo do something so drastic as to make any part of the game permanently free? If the player can't get interested in a game over the weekend, they won't play it again and will go somewhere else.
A player likes Warzone during a free weekend? Buy the game. You don't give out big modes like that for free without knowing for a fact that if a player enjoyed it, they need to buy it.
So yeah, having a new game which is not F2P doesn't interfere with an already established IP. You can still sell a new game with good argument and good production.
Why do you think people will buy Destiny 2? Since from what we saw, it could even be just a DLC from Destiny 1. People aren't looking to the past, they still want new thing, and if you tell people a new game with new content is coming soon, they will move on.
Because Destiny 1 isn't F2P. Sure, Halo 6 will bring in people just on the new factor but having the previous game turn F2P needlessly complicates things as now more people are less likely to upgrade as they already have a free halo experience.
Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Links is a mobile game that I assume has periodic events and content drops to keep interest up. Halo 5 has the lowest form of F2P mechanics.
There are no events, content drops, or even more meaningful reason to log in everyday. Oh boy, one REQ pack. I'll just log in, win my games, then log off. Something even Halo Wars 2 has in daily/weekly challenges.
But then you have less people working on Halo 6 content. Halo can't do GaaS or F2P if 343 plan on doing everything on 3 year cycles where the current title is sure to be replaced in a small period of time. For that to even work, Halo would need to release one product simply named Halo: "Something" where multiplayer is ever evolving and the campaigns become add-ons to this multiplayer game. Halo 5, 6, 7, etc. would be archaic release strategies that won't work if you introduce F2P.
I know that, but here's the thing. REQ revenue is in addition to game sale revenue. Halo shipped ~5M units in 2015. Try getting REQ revenue to exceed that type of revenue generated. It won't happen. The juggernaut that is GTA Online across 5 platforms generated about $700M revenue over 3 years. REQ revenue is not going be even 1/10th of that.
And regarding HCS, how does turning it F2P advertise tournaments? 343 needs to do that themselves. Other games have more successful and much bigger tournaments than Halo that aren't F2P, so again, what does it actually accomplish?
I have zero idea how Halo 5 has sold as a whole (retail or digital) after 2015. What I do know however is that current interest in the game is still high enough to where it is still outperforming recent releases and even Microsoft's other TPS that just came out. You don't give it out for free.
If poor ratings are stopping consumers from buying Halo 5, why would going F2P convince them to play it, or have them spend even $1 on REQs? MS would need to recoup the loss of revenue from game sales through REQs which means that they would need to see exponential growth in player base to see that. I don't think that is a believable scenario and one that MS would ever risk.
I don't think that is a good excuse. If Halo 6 fails in the same ways Halo 5 did, then that is on 343 for poor planning and failing to evolve the franchise. They have had years, multiple blunders, and a vast amount of examples to look to on how to proceed with Halo's post launch support.
EBLspartan
Neo Member
Speaking about Ubisoft....
https://t.co/dIU6zXaQH1?amp=1
https://t.co/dIU6zXaQH1?amp=1
Forerunner
Member
The amount of support Siege gets is amazing. The game was pretty much DOA and now it turned into one of the best FPS on the market.
I wish I could say the same for H5.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I really dislike how much I need the elite controller. I've been playing a lot lately and I'm realizing that the plays I'm making are due to my controller and app settings. I'm acclimated again, but this game is just silly complex with how fast and aggressive it is. Constantly thrusting while aiming, ground pound cancels, trick jumps frequently needing hover+ads+crouch spam+clamber, etc.
Feels like a PC game ported to consoles. With mouse and keyboard none of this would be an issue.
Feels like a PC game ported to consoles. With mouse and keyboard none of this would be an issue.