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[Deputy Moonman]

Man I've been having some fun in the hcs playlist despite mostly getting beat up on each match. What on earth is up with the quitters? Every single game, well almost. Often down 2 people and not just 1. Is there no penalty for quitting in the hcs playlist? It just doesn't make sense to even be playing the game if youre just going to quit as soon as a match starts. Why bother?

Really wish there was a slayer only hcs playlist too. The CTF and Strongholds can be fun but I just want to slay.

 

[MORT1S]

And another two glaring MCC issues in two days:

2. Got H2 sanctuary and pulled a 21 kill perfection, no host migrations and the game ain't in my theatre. Again.

When Halo works at its peak I love it, I will not weather another shoddy unstable game/console.

H2 doesn't support theatre mode. Only H3, ODST, H4, and H2A save films.

So, that may explain it

 

[belushy]

Here's what to expect from oddball



Would have loved a dev made mode, but if it plays well I'll survive w/o the assets.

Just so sad how many gametypes this game is missing....

 

[Fuchsdh]

Here's what to expect from oddball



Would have loved a dev made mode, but if it plays well I'll survive w/o the assets.

Hopefully Oddball and Ricochet are there as first-class gametypes day one for Halo 6.

 

[BizzyBum]

I don't know why I torture myself and play solo q HCS. I either get horrid teammates or face a level 3 smurf who goes like 30-5 and carries their team.

 

[Defect]

Ozzy doesn't know how to play Guardian lol

 

[TCKaos]

Hopefully Oddball and Ricochet are there as first-class gametypes day one for Halo 6.

I wouldn't expect them. "There were too many retools with our clusterfuck of a 16 year old codebase to bring back fan favorite gametypes like FFA. Hopefully we'll have it out within 18 months of launch, but we're not promising anything."

I mean, 343i already has the V/O lines, right? I thought we datamined that a while back. It came out that they recorded all of those lines because they hadn't finalized any of the gametypes yet and didn't know what lines they needed. All that they would need to do is to issue another 2GB update to un-dummy-out the Oddball model that's fully animated and textured that still exists and to implement the lines that they already have recorded and are already in the game's data.

But that would take more than two interns scouring Forgehub to do, which is clearly out of the scope of the current sustain team (by no fault of their own, mind you).

 

[VincentMatts]

Why are playlists missing from the multiplayer???

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

H2 doesn't support theatre mode. Only H3, ODST, H4, and H2A save films.

So, that may explain it

That never dawned on me, what a dick move by me, would be nice if the UI noted that for H2/CE.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I don't know why I torture myself and play solo q HCS. I either get horrid teammates or face a level 3 smurf who goes like 30-5 and carries their team.

Thats me. Or I finally get a group of good teammates and then im the one who sucks it up lol.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Man this thread just disappeared... anybody still playing lol? My new pet peeve in the game is when opposing players spam between crouching and standing when shooting. Looks ridiculous and is really annoying. I usually argue against games needing to be realistic, but in this case standing and crouching in real life would get you killed immediately. Dont like that it ends up being a viable tactic. Just looks stupid and makes me take the competitive side of the game less seriously.

Still doing a lot of hcs playlist and can't get past sliver 5. Playing solo and without a mic definitely hurts, and often without sound. Sorry teammates.

 

[jem0208]

Man this thread just disappeared... anybody still playing lol? My new pet peeve in the game is when opposing players spam between crouching and standing when shooting. Looks ridiculous and is really annoying. I usually argue against games needing to be realistic, but in this case standing and crouching in real life would get you killed immediately. Dont like that it ends up being a viable tactic. Just looks stupid and makes me take the competitive side of the game less seriously.

Still doing a lot of hcs playlist and can't get past sliver 5. Playing solo and without a mic definitely hurts, and often without sound. Sorry teammates.

I've of the ways you can start improving is by crouching during firefights.

It's a good feature, just like strafing it increases the skill gap.

 

[Juan]

Man this thread just disappeared... anybody still playing lol? My new pet peeve in the game is when opposing players spam between crouching and standing when shooting. Looks ridiculous and is really annoying. I usually argue against games needing to be realistic, but in this case standing and crouching in real life would get you killed immediately. Dont like that it ends up being a viable tactic. Just looks stupid and makes me take the competitive side of the game less seriously.

Still doing a lot of hcs playlist and can't get past sliver 5. Playing solo and without a mic definitely hurts, and often without sound. Sorry teammates.

OMG yes, I find this to be soooo ridiculous. x)

I mean, yeah, that's another stuff to manage to get good and improve your skill, but where Halo was a simple but deep FPS, it is now so complex I can't manage to play Halo 5. Crouching also give you a big advantage if you play with an Elite controller thanks to the paddles....

I already didn't like this in Reach, it wasn't big thing in Halo 4 but I really can't give a good look in Halo 5.

Btw, played a lot of MCC yesterday with other french people, a lot of Halo 2, some Halo 3 and one game on Halo 4 using the legendary slayer (no abilities, 4sk BR, same starting weapon etc...). If Halo 4 didn't have sprint, it would be by far my favorite Halo 4 after it was patched.

 

[heytred]

Man this thread just disappeared... anybody still playing lol? My new pet peeve in the game is when opposing players spam between crouching and standing when shooting. Looks ridiculous and is really annoying. I usually argue against games needing to be realistic, but in this case standing and crouching in real life would get you killed immediately. Dont like that it ends up being a viable tactic. Just looks stupid and makes me take the competitive side of the game less seriously.

Still doing a lot of hcs playlist and can't get past sliver 5. Playing solo and without a mic definitely hurts, and often without sound. Sorry teammates.

I mean, Gandhi Hopping has been a feature since Halo 2. I mean, that's basically impossible in real life. I'm all for anything that increases the skill gap/skill ceiling.

TLDR;, git gud.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Man this thread just disappeared... anybody still playing lol? My new pet peeve in the game is when opposing players spam between crouching and standing when shooting. Looks ridiculous and is really annoying. I usually argue against games needing to be realistic, but in this case standing and crouching in real life would get you killed immediately. Dont like that it ends up being a viable tactic. Just looks stupid and makes me take the competitive side of the game less seriously.

Still doing a lot of hcs playlist and can't get past sliver 5. Playing solo and without a mic definitely hurts, and often without sound. Sorry teammates.

Wait until you see them crouch strafe, jump up to the left and thrust to the right while doing a lil crouch and land like a little pebble.
when someone is walking and then sits in a crouch position shooting at you, that's nub tatics.

 

[jem0208]

OMG yes, I find this to be soooo ridiculous. x)

I mean, yeah, that's another stuff to manage to get good and improve your skill, but where Halo was a simple but deep FPS, it is now so complex I can't manage to play Halo 5. Crouching also give you a big advantage if you play with an Elite controller thanks to the paddles....

I already didn't like this in Reach, it wasn't big thing in Halo 4 but I really can't give a good look in Halo 5.

Btw, played a lot of MCC yesterday with other french people, a lot of Halo 2, some Halo 3 and one game on Halo 4 using the legendary slayer (no abilities, 4sk BR, same starting weapon etc...). If Halo 4 didn't have sprint, it would be by far my favorite Halo 4 after it was patched.

Crouching mid firefight has been around in Halo for way longer than just 5.

 

[Juan]

Crouching mid firefight has been around in Halo for way longer than just 5.

That's why I am quoting Reach and Halo 4 in my post. It has been there since Reach actually, but it wasn't as smooth and quick as it is in Halo 5.

And it's one more thing I hate in Halo 5 since I hated this in Reach too.

 

[Trup1aya]

The link below is of a guy speaking critically of the decision process that lead to the implementation of Spartan Abilities.

He uses some clips of a 343 employee speaking at GDC as evidence that these controversial decisions were made to follow trends rather than to actually benefit gameplay.

The comments made by the dev do seem like the process was - "decide to add element because it's popular" --> "Jump through hoops to try to make it actually feel like it belongs in the sandbox" - which is unfortunate, IMO

https://youtu.be/ZM4mB0SJHqA

Is there anyway to watch the full GDC segment clipped in this video? I'd really like more context than what this youtuber provided. Perhaps he's leaving things out that would make me feel differently.

 

[wwm0nkey]

The link below is of a guy speaking critically of the decision process that lead to the implementation of Spartan Abilities.

He uses some clips of a 343 employee speaking at GDC as evidence that these controversial decisions were made to follow trends rather than to actually benefit gameplay.

The comments made by the dev do seem like the process was - "decide to add element because it's popular" --> "Jump through hoops to try to make it actually feel like it belongs in the sandbox" - which is unfortunate, IMO

https://youtu.be/ZM4mB0SJHqA

Is there anyway to watch the full GDC segment clipped in this video? I'd really like more context than what this youtuber provided. Perhaps he's leaving things out that would make me feel differently.

I mean its a problem a lot of FPS games face, can't really do anything that hasn't been done already, but I do wish there was less following trends since older design doesn't always mean bad

 

[Juan]

The link below is of a guy speaking critically of the decision process that lead to the implementation of Spartan Abilities.

He uses some clips of a 343 employee speaking at GDC as evidence that these controversial decisions were made to follow trends rather than to actually benefit gameplay.

The comments made by the dev do seem like the process was - "decide to add element because it's popular" --> "Jump through hoops to try to make it actually feel like it belongs in the sandbox" - which is unfortunate, IMO

https://youtu.be/ZM4mB0SJHqA

Is there anyway to watch the full GDC segment clipped in this video? I'd really like more context than what this youtuber provided. Perhaps he's leaving things out that would make me feel differently.

Oh, you never saw the original GDC talk about this? It's great, I even had a farily-quick discussion with Ryan Dercey, the designer talking during this talk:

https://twitter.com/JuanGGZ/status/759441069151059968

Here is the talk (it's a one hour talk but it's great to understand 343 philosophy): Designing Spartan Abilities for Halo 5: Guardians

Here are the slides I posted on Twitter following my viewing of this talk:

 

[User 73706]

The link below is of a guy speaking critically of the decision process that lead to the implementation of Spartan Abilities.

He uses some clips of a 343 employee speaking at GDC as evidence that these controversial decisions were made to follow trends rather than to actually benefit gameplay.

The comments made by the dev do seem like the process was - "decide to add element because it's popular" --> "Jump through hoops to try to make it actually feel like it belongs in the sandbox" - which is unfortunate, IMO

https://youtu.be/ZM4mB0SJHqA

Is there anyway to watch the full GDC segment clipped in this video? I'd really like more context than what this youtuber provided. Perhaps he's leaving things out that would make me feel differently.

I've seen the whole GDC talk in the past, and the only thing that remotely came off as "add because popular" was sprinting, and even then it's not like 343 introduced it to Halo anyway. If anything, it seemed more like it was arguing that sprint wasn't going to be removed after Bungie made the first step because it still offered things (ex. a trigger for Spartan Charge and Slide) and still worked within the overall sandbox.

 

[Trup1aya]

I mean its a problem a lot of FPS games face, can't really do anything that hasn't been done already, but I do wish there was less following trends since older design doesn't always mean bad

Yeah I think slowly but surely devs are coming around to the idea that newer doesn't neccisarily mean universally better.

With any mechanic Mileage will vary.

It's better to ask, "what can I do to improve my games gameplay?", than it is to ask, "what popular mechanic am I missing and how can I shoehorn it into my game without upsetting my core fans"

Oh, you never saw the original GDC talk about this? It's great, I even had a farily-quick discussion with Ryan Dercey, the designer talking during this talk:

https://twitter.com/JuanGGZ/status/759441069151059968

Here is the talk (it's a one hour talk but it's great to understand 343 philosophy): Designing Spartan Abilities for Halo 5: Guardians

Here are the slides I posted on Twitter following my viewing of this talk:

Holy shit man, I've been trying to find it on google and kept running into subscriptions and stuff...

Thanks.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

OMG yes, I find this to be soooo ridiculous. x)

I mean, yeah, that's another stuff to manage to get good and improve your skill, but where Halo was a simple but deep FPS, it is now so complex I can't manage to play Halo 5. Crouching also give you a big advantage if you play with an Elite controller thanks to the paddles....

I already didn't like this in Reach, it wasn't big thing in Halo 4 but I really can't give a good look in Halo 5.

Btw, played a lot of MCC yesterday with other french people, a lot of Halo 2, some Halo 3 and one game on Halo 4 using the legendary slayer (no abilities, 4sk BR, same starting weapon etc...). If Halo 4 didn't have sprint, it would be by far my favorite Halo 4 after it was patched.

Agreed.

I've of the ways you can start improving is by crouching during firefights.

It's a good feature, just like strafing it increases the skill gap.

I can see how it's one more skill for people to improve, but it also looks completely ridiculous. Like a ridiculous that I think makes halo 5 less enjoyable to watch and even less reputable.

I mean, Gandhi Hopping has been a feature since Halo 2. I mean, that's basically impossible in real life. I'm all for anything that increases the skill gap/skill ceiling.

TLDR;, git gud.

I remember it in Halo 2. The thing is it didn't really benefit the players doing it. I can recall many times where players would do that and I would just finish them off and move on thinking what an idiot because strafing by itself was far more effective. With halo 5, the game is so fast and there are so many extra abilities like thrust and stabilizers that the addition of spamming crouch too just makes the game look silly. It gives the appearance of someone button mashing or spazzing out. Maybe I'm wrong but it's not something I see bringing in new fans of the game. Like hey look at that weird shit. Nope moving on lol.

 

[Trup1aya]

I've seen the whole GDC talk in the past, and the only thing that remotely came off as "add because popular" was sprinting, and even then it's not like 343 introduced it to Halo anyway. If anything, it seemed more like it was arguing that sprint wasn't going to be removed after Bungie made the first step because it still offered things (ex. a trigger for Spartan Charge and Slide) and still worked within the overall sandbox.

The video I posted framed it as such. But yeah I'm sure he was selective with his clipping.

In the clip, With regards to sprint, it sounded as if it was a controversial topic in the studio going into H5. And the reason it was kept is because it was decided that it was a "staple" of FPS, not because it was better for Halo. Then, they had to tweak the sandbox to make it fit the sandbox, because it doesn't inherently fit.

I don't see how Bungie making the first step made sprint a permanent feature. Bungie also added dual wielding, it was bad for the sandbox, then they took it out after two games of trying to make it work.

Which brings us to Spartan Charge and Slide- were they added because they improve the sandbox? Do they need Sprint as a trigger? I don't think the answer to either is yes.

Anyway, I still need to watch the full vid

 

[Samurai G0SU]

i crouch with the right thumbstick, as i aim. i do this so the other person can miss atleast one or two shots, usually a headshot. When people spam it, its offputting, but if used as a surprise where the person cant predict the next move you will do, then chea crouch-strafe it up baby!

in halo 2, you just changed up your strafing.

 

[Juan]

The comments made by the dev do seem like the process was - "decide to add element because it's popular" --> "Jump through hoops to try to make it actually feel like it belongs in the sandbox" - which is unfortunate, IMO

https://youtu.be/ZM4mB0SJHqA

Is there anyway to watch the full GDC segment clipped in this video? I'd really like more context than what this youtuber provided. Perhaps he's leaving things out that would make me feel differently.

I just watched this video and I having a great laugh at Halo youtubers to be honest, they always try to make a big drama of small things and aren't actually taking the developper point of view (sometimes they do).

They didn't add abilities from other games because it was popular, they got through a very different design process & decision making.

343 wanted to modernize the Halo gameplay and add a sense of fast pacing inspired a lot by Halo 2, looking from a competitive/esport side. From this, they made design decision that could improve the pacing and make it faster.

So they had a bunch of ideas, and they just saw that other games were having similar ideas and were curious how those game implemented those gameplay mechanics. Seeing how other games are implementing ideas you have is a great way to prototype the gameplay in your mind without the cost of developing it.

But sure, it still is like looking for the last trend, and I criticized this after watching this talk. But I can understand why 343 took those decisions, while disagreeing with them and hoping they will get back to classic Halo fir the next title in the serie.

 

[Trup1aya]

I just watched this video and I having a great laugh at Halo youtubers to be honest, they always try to make a big drama of small things and aren't actually taking the developper point of view (sometimes they do).

They didn't add abilities from other games because it was popular, they got through a very different design process & decision making.

343 wanted to modernize the Halo gameplay and add a sense of fast pacing inspired a lot by Halo 2, looking from a competitive/esport side. From this, they made design decision that could improve the pacing and make it faster.

So they had a bunch of ideas, and they just saw that other games were having similar ideas and were curious how those game implemented those gameplay mechanics. Seeing how other games are implementing ideas you have is a great way to prototype the gameplay in your mind without the cost of developing it.

But sure, it still is like looking for the last trend, and I criticized this after watching this talk. But I can understand why 343 took those decisions, while disagreeing with them and hoping they will get back to classic Halo fir the next title in the serie.

I'm watching the video and I just got to the key takeaways segment, and I just can't help but be turned off by the thought process behind designing these abilities.

key takeaways: choosing where to innovate:

#1: stay on top of trends
#2: find a theme (fictionally and functionally)
#3: don't be afraid to cut the bait

IMO, I think having the bolded items as their guidelines to innovation actually worked to stifle innovation. And ironically, advanced mobility is the bait that they shouldn't have been afraid to cut.

With regards to sprint, is sounds like they had some serious internal considerations for not including it in H5, but sprint ultimateky won out because other popular shooters have sprint.

Then to sprint it 'work' we get stretched maps to arbitrarily make it "feel" useful and more complex health model to combat escapabilty problems that sprint introduces.

Regarding "cutting the bait" he said "even worse than not innovating is filling your game with superfluous 'wouldn't-It-be-cool-if' features"...
Then they add Spartan Charge on top of sprint.

I just disagree with the thought process. When choosing where to innovate the questions should be:

#1 How can I address weaknesses in my gameplay
#2 How can I maximize strengths in my gameplay.

 

[VincentMatts]

I just watched this video and I having a great laugh at Halo youtubers to be honest, they always try to make a big drama of small things and aren't actually taking the developper point of view (sometimes they do).

They didn't add abilities from other games because it was popular, they got through a very different design process & decision making.

343 wanted to modernize the Halo gameplay and add a sense of fast pacing inspired a lot by Halo 2, looking from a competitive/esport side. From this, they made design decision that could improve the pacing and make it faster.

So they had a bunch of ideas, and they just saw that other games were having similar ideas and were curious how those game implemented those gameplay mechanics. Seeing how other games are implementing ideas you have is a great way to prototype the gameplay in your mind without the cost of developing it.

But sure, it still is like looking for the last trend, and I criticized this after watching this talk. But I can understand why 343 took those decisions, while disagreeing with them and hoping they will get back to classic Halo fir the next title in the serie.

Whatever they do, their goal is primarily "how do we keep people logging in and playing our game". Gameplay is one part of that. If people dont keep logging in after 3 years, it doesnt necessarily mean that the gameplay is ultimately not good enough. It just means there arent enough "reasons" to log in over a long period of time.

If you look at BF1, the gameplay is imo fantastic for a BF game. Best one yet. And yet im still somewhat bored playing it now. Why? Because theres nothing to strive for, improve or unlock and the maps are getting repetitive. You can have the best gameplay in the world and i guarantee you that most people will still get fed up if the game stops being supported or just isnt being supported the right way

Halo back in the day was in the infancy of console multiplayer. So that lack of real competition gave it a huge advantage and allowed it to set the bar from what to expect from great console games. There was nothing else like it on consoles then and it came with a ton of customization options in terms of gametypes. That alone was enough to get people in the door and stay. That also isnt enough anymore. Every game comes with these things now and a lot of them play just as great.

Halos problem now is that it has a ton of quality competition it didnt have before. So in order to really stand out, it needs to take chances and innovate just like Halo CE and 2 did then. It also needs an addiction factor. This is what games do now, they have something that gets people addicted to logging into their games. Whether its something completely different like Battlegrounds or something very team oriented like Overwatch. Those 2 games play like nothing else out there. Thats not the case for halo. Halos gameplay then and now isnt unique anymore and it doesnt give you real incentive to log in daily if you dont like warzone.

343 need to surpass themselves in terms of "overall package", and they just havent done that yet. Nothing theyve done really hit it off or felt unique. Something you couldnt find anywhere else. They were hoping warzone would do it, but it didnt. And considering they never fix any of its big problems (like balance), people moved on to other games.

 

[BizzyBum]

I dunno about you guys, but that daily reward of 200 req points and plasma pistol reqs get me to turn on Halo5 everyday.

 

[bigJP]

just got back into halo 5 after a long break. have they added in forged maps into team slayer (ranked). what are they called? wanna download them to see how they play.

 

[E92 M3]

I don't want to sprint, thrust, camber, air stabilization or any other Spartan ability. Just bring back classic Halo with good map design.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I don't want to sprint, thrust, camber, air stabilization or any other Spartan ability. Just bring back classic Halo with good map design.

We will never get as many good maps as we got with Halo 2, so many god tier maps in one game

 

[GringoSuave89]

I don't want to sprint, thrust, camber, air stabilization or any other Spartan ability. Just bring back classic Halo with good map design.

I'd happily accept all the Spartan abilities if map design was improved. I just miss good maps.... And yes, I understand that SA tend to muddle/ruin map design. I'm just trying to bargain here.

 

[Finaj]

I think good mutiplayer map design has been lacking in the genre for a while. CoD, TF2, Destiny and Halo leave a lot to be desired when it comes to map design.

 

[Trup1aya]

Halos problem now is that it has a ton of quality competition it didnt have before. So in order to really stand out, it needs to take chances and innovate just like Halo CE and 2 did then. It also needs an addiction factor. This is what games do now, they have something that gets people addicted to logging into their games. Whether its something completely different like Battlegrounds or something very team oriented like Overwatch. Those 2 games play like nothing else out there. Thats not the case for halo. Halos gameplay then and now isnt unique anymore and it doesnt give you real incentive to log in daily if you dont like warzone.

This doesn't compute. Halo's issue isn't that it has new competition. Most of the games currently above halo are from franchises that were below halo in the past.

None of this happens in a vaccum. Why are halo's old competitors doing better than Halo AND holding their own against all this the new competition?

It's a qualitative issue. Those old franchises have improved. The new franchises are high quality. and the market feels Halo's offerings are below those qualitively.

Something closer Halo's old gameplay would be unique amongst modern shooters.

No progression/unlock system is going to keep players hooked, if they don't actually enjoy the gameplay required to gain this progress.

 

[VincentMatts]

This doesn't compute. Halo's issue isn't that it has new competition. Most of the games currently above halo are from franchises that were below halo in the past.

Exactly what i said. You realise that there wasnt any Overwatch then and COD didnt come out till 2003. So it had much less competition especially on consoles.

None of this happens in a vaccum. Why are halo's old competitors doing better than Halo AND holding their own against all this the new competition?

Because they innovated where halo stayed stagnant. COD brought many new elements into shooters which is why its remained as popular as it has. And P.S, their DLC is not ugly forge stuff.

It's a qualitative issue. Those old franchises have improved. The new franchises are high quality. and the market feels Halo's offerings are below those qualitively.

MP gameplay is the best its ever been. Everything else has been average at best other than maybe the forge updates. I never said the opposite.

Something closer Halo's old gameplay would be unique amongst modern shooters.

It would be niche at best. No way that does better than what they have now in terms of gameplay.

No progression/unlock system is going to keep players hooked, if they don't actually enjoy the gameplay required to gain this progress.

MP gameplay in h5 is superior to every other halo out there.

 

[jem0208]

I dunno about you guys, but that daily reward of 200 req points and plasma pistol reqs get me to turn on Halo5 everyday.

Heh, I just got a DMR from a daily login pack.

 

[Juan]

If you look at BF1, the gameplay is imo fantastic for a BF game. Best one yet. And yet im still somewhat bored playing it now. Why? Because theres nothing to strive for, improve or unlock and the maps are getting repetitive. You can have the best gameplay in the world and i guarantee you that most people will still get fed up if the game stops being supported or just isnt being supported the right way

Halos problem now is that it has a ton of quality competition it didnt have before. So in order to really stand out, it needs to take chances and innovate just like Halo CE and 2 did then. It also needs an addiction factor. This is what games do now, they have something that gets people addicted to logging into their games. Whether its something completely different like Battlegrounds or something very team oriented like Overwatch. Those 2 games play like nothing else out there. Thats not the case for halo. Halos gameplay then and now isnt unique anymore and it doesnt give you real incentive to log in daily if you dont like warzone.

I will strongly disagree with a lot of what you are saying, but actually, I just can't figure where you put yourself on the Halo spectrum-gameplay-wise.

Each generation see a new top game that will outmatch other. Halo was the top dog during two generations of console, it's okay for this franchise to not be number one anymore. So at least, keep this franchise as it was so it can please the already existing community and still be unique in the market. People will or will not be interested, but it's better to please you already existing consumer than trying to please everyone. It is the best way to please no one actually.

You can have a very simple formula when it comes to game mechanics and make the level design enhance it and brings new things, be it gametypes or way to improve your skill on already existing maps.

Look at games like Tramaniac, DOOM, Distance (from Refrect Studio) or Rocket League. Those games have very simple mechanics that have been enhanced by the level design or the gametype they were providing while staying true to what they are. They add content on a regular-basis, but not like every months, and they still have a descent amount of players coming back everyday.

I'm not talking about huge success, just good one that keep an healthy community alive while not trying to chase every new trends. New games are here to bring new gameplay mechanics, old game just should improve their own formula (latest Zelda is a very good example of this).

To this day, I can't think of a popular FPS that plays like Halo, and I play a ton of games. Halo is still unique, and that's okay if it's not the number one selling franchise anymore, don't prostitue Halo.

Every game will come to a day it will be boring because you played it during years, Halo isn't different. Overwatch and Battleground will be blurred out in a few years because trends change and people just want to enjoy new things. And we all heard that what is old is new again.

The simple Halo formula will rise again one day, and it will bring new players to this.

As I already say some times ago, I wish 343 would give us a Halo Online on Xbox that would evolved and having new content during like ten years with MT for Warzone or Invasion like gametypes.

People being only engage by content to unlock will leave the same soon enough if your gameplay isn't good, they doesn't care how many armors or skins you can unlock. You have to hook them with gameplay because even thinking adding stuff to unlock. Emotional engagement is way more important than esthetic one. I would even prefer to have more PvE content than PvP.

But still, I'm curious, what would be the top Halo game to you Vincent?

Heh, I just got a DMR from a daily login pack.

Just reading this made me want to vomit to be honest...

I don't want to sprint, thrust, camber, air stabilization or any other Spartan ability. Just bring back classic Halo with good map design.

Oh, hi! You're there too?

 

[Gnome Scat]

I'd happily accept all the Spartan abilities if map design was improved. I just miss good maps.... And yes, I understand that SA tend to muddle/ruin map design. I'm just trying to bargain here.

Yeah this was the biggest issue for me. The core gameplay mechanics were very tight and polished, but map design didn't allow the gameplay to flow as it should.

 

[Fata1moose]

Or you could just make a Halo game instead of chasing fads.
💁

 

[Trup1aya]

Exactly what i said. You realise that there wasnt any Overwatch then and COD didnt come out till 2003. So it had much less competition especially on consoles.

1) Halo's playerbase issues predate Overwatch by 6 years
2) Halo and COD have coexisted for almost14 years. Halo went toe2toe (or better) with it for 7. That 2 year head start doesn't explain why Halo has failed to compete for the last 7
3) halo's old competition have no problem competing with Overwatch (and Destiny and everything else)

Because they innovated where halo stayed stagnant. COD brought many new elements into shooters which is why its remained as popular as it has. And P.S, their DLC is not ugly forge stuff.

Halo hasn't stagnated. It brought in new things that cause it to regress. H4 was only a Halo title by name. MCC was broken. H5 had a laughably bad campain, launched without core modes and gametypes (many of which still aren't present), and had an aiming system that was broken for 2 years, and SAs that made the game cumbersome, compromised input registration, and hampered map design.

MP gameplay is the best its ever been. Everything else has been average at best other than maybe the forge updates. I never said the opposite.

Hmm, maps that are compromised by Spartan abilities. Weapon balancing compromised by Spartan abilities, tiered weapon balancing rather than niche balancing, input registry issues, broken aimer...

Best ever!

Your statement is Subjective

Spoiler

but also wrong

It would be niche at best. No way that does better than what they have now in terms of gameplay.

I mean the game is niche now.... the last time we had a classic styled halo, it was the top played game for 3years despite the rise of halo and battlefield. Interestingly enough, interest in cod and battlefield has recently spiked due to a return to the formulas they used during halo's best years.

MP gameplay in h5 is superior to every other halo out there.

Tell that to the millions of previous halo fans who have no interest in a halo that plays this way. And the millions more general FPS fans who don't even look in Halo's direction.

 

[Gwyn]

Tell that to the millions of previous halo fans who have no interest in a halo that plays this way. And the millions more general FPS fans who don't even look in Halo's direction.

While i agree with some points you make you need to also consider that old halo fans moved on with their lifes and maybe completely stopped gaming or got tired of halo gameplay classic or new doesn't matter

Do you really believe that if halo games didn't change anything in their gameplay or just added minor changes like thrust halo would continue to be played by millions every month?

Looks like people these days prefer games with waifus, cute art style (OW) or they like to farm the same shit over and over again for better loot even though the story sucks (destiny) or games that are unfinshed plagued with bugs and shitty performance (PUB)

Also back in the days social media weren't that important as today and that really affects what games are popular today
So if big youtubers/twitch streamers/gaming sites talk and play OW or PUB for example then people will follow and buy the game too because that's the trend/fotm

Sorry but i am trash at english so ignore the bad formating

Edit:
Forgot to add that xbox isn't really hot this gen so that affects halo population too
So imo there are so many factors that go into why halo isn't one of the most played games than "omg 343 ruined halo"

 

[Trup1aya]

While i agree with some points you make you need to also consider that old halo fans moved on with their lifes and maybe completely stopped gaming or got tired of halo gameplay classic or new doesn't matter

I do consider that and I'm sure it has happened... BUT. I'm sure the same thing has happened with COD, and Battlefield and Rainbow 6 fans, yet, somehow those games have managed to retain old fans and make new ones despite this. Why would Halo struggle with this more?

Do you really believe that if halo games didn't change anything in their gameplay or just added minor changes like thrust halo would continue to be played by millions every month?

Yes and no (but mostly no). Halo never stopped changing. Each game was different from the last in key ways. H3 is a world apart from CE. The money is in making the right changes and tweaks. Changes that highlight the strength of the sandbox and eliminated weaknesses.

Drastically adjusting your sandbox so that you can balance it around "staples" that work for other games is the exact wrong approach to trying to maintain your games appeal. You should add things that compliment your sandbox. Not change your sandbox to compliment the things you want to add.

I think there are a lot of things that could have been done to help Halo keep its appeal after Halo 3. Following the advanced mobility trend of separating movement and shooting was not it. Neither were the asymmetrical start and loadout trends.

The reason I answered 'yes' to start with is because i think not making any change would have been better than incorporating changes that make things worse.

Looks like people these days prefer games with waifus, cute art style (OW) or they like to farm the same shit over and over again for better loot even though the story sucks (destiny) or games that are unfinshed plagued with bugs and shitty performance (PUB)

I'm cool with loot. We can introduce loot into Halo without breaking the core gameplay. I think segmenting Warzone was an excellent choice. I think the progression system itself (and gameplay balancing) left much to be desired, but it's looking in the right direction.

Also back in the days social media weren't that important as today and that really affects what games are popular today
So if big youtubers/twitch streamers gaming sites talk/play OW or PUB for example then people will follow and buy the game too because that's the trend/fotm

Social media personalities would promote Halo if they had more fun playing it. Summ1t, is one of the most popular twitch personalities and he wanted to promote Halo5 so bad, but the aiming was (still is?) broken for 2 years, even on Kb/m.

Sorry but i am trash at english so ignore the bad formating

People with English as a second language are often better at it than those who only speak it. You are no exception!

edit: Forgot to add that xbox isn't really hot this gen so that affects halo population too
So imo there are so many factors that go into why halo isn't one of the most played games than "omg 343 ruined halo"

Xbox not being popular doesn't explain why Halo is so far down the list ON XBOX. Why aren't Xbox owners playing Halo as much as they play Halo's competition?

I don't think it's all on 343, but I think they have the wrong approach to "choosing" where to innovate. That's what lead to H4. And that's why we are still trying to shoehorn sprint into Halo, even though it hasn't worked since 2012.

 

[Gwyn]

I don't think it's all on 343, but I think they have the wrong approach to "choosing" where to innovate. That's what lead to H4. And that's why we are still trying to shoehorn sprint into Halo, even though it hasn't worked since 2012.

Agreed 343 could do so much better and i hope they listen to the community and deliver with H6

H6 needs:

-go back to old art style no more power rangers
-Keep thrust and clamber only and design maps with crouch jumping instead of clamber
-Good arena maps not only at launch but dlc arena maps too, not like those trash h5 dlc maps
-Dev btb maps day 1
-classic firefight please
-customization like reach
-game modes...oddball, koth
-improve forge assets/textures somehow

Something i wish for h6 is to give us almost dev like tools for forge something like unreal engine 4 editor so forge maps can be as good as dev maps!

Btw something else i wonder about hardcore halo fans, hitscan or projectile based? what's best for halo? I read snipedowns AMA and he wants projectile gameplay back.

 

[Trup1aya]

Agreed 343 could do so much better and i hope they listen to the community and deliver with H6

H6 needs:

-go back to old art style no more power rangers
-Keep thrust and clamber only and design maps with crouch jumping instead of clamber
-Good arena maps not only at launch but dlc arena maps too, not like those trash h5 dlc maps
-Dev btb maps day 1
-classic firefight please
-customization like reach
-game modes...oddball, koth
-improve forge assets/textures somehow

Something i wish for h6 is to give us almost dev like tools for forge something like unreal engine 4 editor so forge maps can be as good as dev maps!

Agreed. Take this a basis, and innovate on top of that.

*Innovate in weapon balance- Instead of TTK, ROF and ease of use being the only differentiator between weapons in a class, go back to actually giving them unique, niche rolls in the sandbox

*Innovate in matchmaking- Menke has some intriguing ideas. Lock him in a room so he never leaves for activision

*Innovate in locomotion. Halo already has unique movement mechanics and a reliance on physics. Expand on that instead of following trends. Design maps around crouch and spring jumping instead of forcing people to clamber everywhere. incorporate weapon secondaries functions and power up characteristics that allow players to move differently and design maps reward movement creativity.

*innovate in melee. Halo used to have a fairly deep melee system for an FPS. Instead of static lunge and damage, add depth by giving guns different melee characteristics (Lunge distance, strike zone, damage, critical hit zones)

*innovate in story telling.
*continue to innovate in User Generated Content

I think there the possibilities are endless when it comes to how 343i can take classic Halo design principles and make a fresh and exciting game. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that mimicking other games was ever a logical step towards helping the franchise maintain its appeal.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Agreed. Take this a basis, and innovate on top of that.

*Innovate in weapon balance- Instead of TTK, ROF and ease of use being the only differentiator between weapons in a class, go back to actually giving them unique, niche rolls in the sandbox

*Innovate in matchmaking- Menke has some intriguing ideas. Lock him in a room so he never leaves for activision

*Innovate in locomotion. Halo already has unique movement mechanics and a reliance on physics. Expand on that instead of following trends. Design maps around crouch and spring jumping instead of forcing people to clamber everywhere. incorporate weapon secondaries functions and power up characteristics that allow players to move differently and design maps reward creativity.

*innovate in melee. Halo used to have a fairly deep melee system for an FPS. Instead of static lunge and damage, add depth by giving guns different melee characteristics (Lunge distance, strike zone, damage, critical hit zones)

*innovate in story telling.
*continue to innovate in User Generated Content

I think there the possibilities are endless when it comes to how 343i can take classic Halo design principles and make a fresh and exciting game. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that mimicking other games was ever a logical step towards helping the franchise maintain its appeal.

This I think could be the biggest one of all. Forge is... really, really impressive these days. It's a couple of coats of pain away from being able to produce content on par with most dev made maps. Add in the ability to create vs. AI scenarios a la Doom 2016 and create a really healthy and responsive community content in multi and I think a lot of sins in the rest of the suite could be forgiven.

 

[Trup1aya]

This I think could be the biggest one of all. Forge is... really, really impressive these days. It's a couple of coats of pain away from being able to produce content on par with most dev made maps. Add in the ability to create vs. AI scenarios a la Doom 2016 and create a really healthy and responsive community content in multi and I think a lot of sins in the rest of the suite could be forgiven.

No doubt. I think this is really where halo's goldmine could be.

I'm kinda intrigued by minecraft, even though I don't play it. But amazing how such a community can grow out of creating maps and gametypes. I often wonder how we could Halo-ize the concept of realms and private servers.

I think it would be cool if a player could "host" a matchmaking server - meaning she'd curate the maps, modes, and gametypes people would be matchmade in if they joined the server.

So if ForgeHub could have a server, and use it to live playtest a bunch of maps.

OpticGaming could have a server, and schedule times for their fans to join it for a chance to play with/against members of the team

I could make a server that would just have Extermination maps.

Team Beyond could have a "evolved settings" server

343 could have official servers like "Weekly Forge Highlights", "Dev BTB" , "Infection" , "team skirmish"

In other words, merge the Custom Browser concept and the social playlist concept into a 'server browser' that's largely controlled by the community itself.

 

[E92 M3]

We will never get as many good maps as we got with Halo 2, so many god tier maps in one game

It was truly special. The only other games that pulled of such quality of maps were COD4 and MW2.

I'd happily accept all the Spartan abilities if map design was improved. I just miss good maps.... And yes, I understand that SA tend to muddle/ruin map design. I'm just trying to bargain here.

Indeed, and the art direction needs to change dramatically. NO MORE INDUSTRIAL.

Oh, hi! You're there too?

Yes, I've been a Halo fan since the beginning and don't want to see it die.

 

[Trup1aya]

Btw something else i wonder about hardcore halo fans, hitscan or projectile based? what's best for halo? I read snipedowns AMA and he wants projectile gameplay back.

I think the sandbox should be a good mix of projectile and hitscan weapons. I think that would go along way towards giving weapons niche roles instead of making them all feel redundant.

I wouldnt stop there though.

One of the cooler things I heard in that gdc talk was that stabilize started as weapon attachment. Having it be unique to a specific weapon and then having people control that weapon so they can use it to navigate maps a bit differently would have been awesome.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Wow this thread is alive again, nice.

I mean, Gandhi Hopping has been a feature since Halo 2. I mean, that's basically impossible in real life. I'm all for anything that increases the skill gap/skill ceiling.

TLDR;, git gud.

Gandhi hopping is simply spamming crouch as you're jumping; it's not the same thing.

Crouching mid firefight has been around in Halo for way longer than just 5.

Actually, the ability to crouch while moving was added in Halo 4 IIRC, otherwise you had to stop moving the joystick then crouch in the previous games. The input windows varied slightly, but you'll notice the difference in H4/H5 immediately when you're privy to it.