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[MrGreencastle]

Saw this thread pop up on the front page and hoped that MrGreen had made a new post.

Sigh.

Lol

lol apologies, I know I said I would get three posts out already. I'm working on them, slowly, kind of a busy weekend for me, haha! Plus I got sidetracked by RTX discussion while working on the Prophet and Mendicant Bias ones, so they sort of went on hold. They are shaping up though, and I'll likely post the Terminal teaser one and AI/Prophets one at the same time, since they are kind of related. Each time I add a bit to one it reminds me of something to add to the other so it is taking longer than I "planned"

Spoiler

I don't know how to plan

Was Oppenheimer a hero for the atomic bomb? Won the war, but there was a hell of a cost. It's not completely analogous, but Halsey's actions still ruined lives and were morally dubious. The whole "ends justify the means" viewpoint is a slippery slope, in fiction and in the real world.

Very close. THey were created to combat the Insurrectionist movement, and eliminate all rebel factions. Halsey got lucky with the fact that her super soldiers created to kill other humans got a new target with Covenant.

Hmm, I like this Halsey discussion but it's going to take me a while to put together my thoughts on this since I want to use it as a topic for yet another post in here (

Spoiler

I could do this crap for days

). Though for the sake of discussion, I'll toss in my view in part, but I will elaborate more on the following opinions/conjecture in greater detail in a future post at some point soon, too. I've already started assembling stuff in my Halo Lore OneNote

I think if you look at Halsey's actions from a more timeline-oriented perspective (

Spoiler

as far as the UNSC side of the story goes, starting from say... the Dr. Elias Carver papers in ~2491, to her actions through 2531 or so

), as well consider the events of the books The Fall of Reach and First Strike (and Ghosts of Onyx-Kilo 5 to a lesser extent), and using some of the insider framework from the lead-up context in Halsey's Journal, AND also her appearances in Spartan Ops(seriously), you get a better understanding for what I feel are incredibly important complexities to not only her character's, but also humanity's -and hell, even the galaxy's- circumstance(s). All sort of culminating within and via her "work".

Not trying to cast her as a victim of circumstance really, yet she was merely 18 when she finished the research paper that would eventually lead her to what she would call the SPARTAN II program (

Spoiler

among many other disparate-but-eventually-related "projects"

) before there was even any widespread "warring" going on at all - just a marked increase of insurrectionist activity isolated to outer colonies, of which the UNSC was much less concerned about (

Spoiler

and Halsey was being "influenced" to be unable to refuse to work on the "ORION Mk 2" contract by ONI - they knew there were few, if any, others to use for their ends, and they knew she didn't give two shits about military work, so they engineered a way for her to convince herself that she needed to help

) - not even considering the eventual Human-Covenant war's events from 2525, which seemingly no one predicted. It was almost entirely anticipatory, which perhaps from a certain perspective casts her in an even worse light, yes, but to me, I feel it's more revealing of certain "greater" machinations that are often just hinted at right now in the fiction. I guess my perspective of her character is based on my own interpretations from reading "between the lines", rather than taking other characters for their word - and also maybe probably likely my nostalgic personal bias toward her.

I agree that much of what is happening with Halsey "lately" in-universe could have been seen coming a mile away, and it much of it makes a lot of sense, considering almost everyone's perspective/circumstance aside from hers, but the way Karen Traviss characterizes and compares her to Mengele? Just No. Halsey is not mad, and her "work" was not born from morbid curiosity or such things. Ignoring her absolutely ferocious scientific and theoretical genius (something Mengele seriously lacked), Halsey's work became a SUCCESS of her curiosity, and was a result and culmination of an all-too-convenient scenarios of being "the right person in the right place at the right time". Did she commit war crimes? Absolutely, by the book yes. But in this situation I don't think it's fair to ignore the eventual results of her methods, either, retroactive or not. Oppenheimer a sort of hero for the atomic bomb, perhaps, but, however retroactively you want to look at it, Halsey's combined work with genetic engineering, cloning, artificial intelligence, military improvements, and xenoarcheological study, didn't just culminate into the ending of a war, it resulted - no, enabled the survival of the entirety of the human species itself. The Covenant were ruthless and the last-lifeboat that was UNSC Infinity (which Halsey built, too) would have been the only remaining reservoir of humanity without her, likely not even that. Would critique have happened then, with no humans to even look back on history at all? Could there have been another way through which to accomplish salvation? Maybe. But, timeline permitting, even the best of ONI knew that no one other than her had near the same amount of success in her fields and no human, other than her, were (and still aren't "today") even capable of doing the level of "work" she does and did. To me, it is clear that she knew the only way to stand a chance of success was to sacrifice her own morality (

Spoiler

in great secrecy, and to her own torment, because she was intelligent enough to form her hypothesis that the only way to do it was to "do it right" - indoctrination. I think the less effective hasty Spartan III program is evidence of that, and I predict we will see a stark, darker shift in tone for the Spartan IV's in the future fiction

) to accelerate the results of the SPARTAN program - of which their use toward the predicted endgame was an extremely time-sensitive matter.

Edit: minor edits for incomplete trains of thought...

 

[GringoSuave89]

-well written post-

I agree that Halsey's characterization in K-5 was heavy handed, and she certainly isn't the stereotypical mad scientist, but she has a lot of traits like one. She has to constantly be the smartest person in the room (which she often is), she's fairly vain in her pride and knowledge, and she has a curious attitude that drives her to do some really shady things.

Again, she's not a mad scientist. She's actually pretty conflicted about her work, and it weighs on her heart quite a bit. But she's not someone to be revered.

Halsey is probably one of my favorite characters in Halo. My argument that she's not a good guy (in the purest sense) is in no way an attack

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Incoming large images, also hope I'm not doubling up on discussions here but below are some screen grabs from the RTX terminal video and just some things I noticed...

John, or someone imitating him, is logging into ONI Target Acquisitions

The report was compiled by Agent Locke (Lt. Commander Jameson Locke)

Arby has a jetpack? Heretic? Looks like cut down armour model.

What ship is this?

What is the Elite coming from the very right hand side carrying? Something Forerunner...

Just what in the hell are the Prophets obtaining here? Something the Arbiter has betrayed us for?

Spoiler

Are we going after the Arbiter in the next Master Chief game?

 

[Fuchsdh]

If you were to make a comparison between Mengele and Halsey, you could say that both took advantage of a political climate that allowed them to commit barbarous acts. Halsey certainly was more clinical and focused than Mengele, and I cannot consider what drove Mengele to do the things he did, though as a fictional character we obviously have a lot more to go on with Halsey.

Incoming large images, also hope I'm not doubling up on discussions here but below are some screen grabs from the RTX terminal video and just some things I noticed...

Just what in the hell are the Prophets obtaining here? Something the Arbiter has betrayed us for?

Spoiler

Are we going after the Arbiter in the next Master Chief game?

Those Prophets look nothing like the ones we've seen before--they're upright, less desiccated. My guess, and the guess of Postmortem over at FUD, is that they're ancient San Shyuum--maybe the Reformists, before they took the Dreadnought and left their world?

 

[MrGreencastle]

snipimages

Spoiler

Are we going after the Arbiter in the next Master Chief game?

Nice high quality collection. They're some really interesting shotsin that teaser. I think I've touched on most of them in that incoming megapost trying to connect it with the fiction and make some other rampant/wishful speculations. I will try to finish it up over the next few hours as I finally have some free time.

I just have to say though, I really like the art style of the terminals. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the sort of cartoon-style they've been using here and for Halo 4, and CEA is just really nice. I'm not sure if it's the same company doing them, as they're each unique in their own right, but I'm loving what they're doing here.

To the spoiler:

Spoiler

After spending hours researching and building my latest post based off a freaking 80 second trailer, I'm beginning to ask myself the same question. There's some extremely strange and sneaky stuff going on behind the scenes at 343i. I am seriously expecting Broken Circle to explode minds - even the Master Chief Collection, too, something I didn't really consider at all until looking deeper into things, things that may not actually have any meaning at all, but THINGS nonetheless... One mega post (part 3 musings) that I sort of half-abandoned since a couple weeks ago because I'm in now in a more wait and see mode, was this ridiculous, 15-year-cross-media-spanning deep-dive obsessive-speculative lore-rant that was inspired and based on a "question" that the Halo 5 beta teaser from E3 "posed" to me (and not even from the obvious interesting part, at that): Why the shattered/fragmented crystal imagery?

Here's a gif from the part of the trailer that spun me into that deep-dive:

 

[Poodlestrike]

I agree that Halsey's characterization in K-5 was heavy handed, and she certainly isn't the stereotypical mad scientist, but she has a lot of traits like one. She has to constantly be the smartest person in the room (which she often is), she's fairly vain in her pride and knowledge, and she has a curious attitude that drives her to do some really shady things.

Again, she's not a mad scientist. She's actually pretty conflicted about her work, and it weighs on her heart quite a bit. But she's not someone to be revered.

Halsey is probably one of my favorite characters in Halo. My argument that she's not a good guy (in the purest sense) is in no way an attack

See, this is why Halsey's treatment in K-5 is so irritating to me. She's an immensely complex character, who's done terrible things but is ultimately responsible for humanity's continued survival. Exploring that (and yes, calling her out on it) would have made for an immensely interesting plotline. Instead we got Glasslands.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I know this might not be a popular opinion, but I'm really looking forward to Spartan armor taking on more Forerunner and/or Sangheili cues in design and function as Halo 5 approaches. 343 seems to be leaning this way with the teaser Locke appears in: Forsaking the bulky, tank like SII/III armor for more organic, flexible armor with more advanced shielding and weaponry.

That new armour is also a bit mindful of ancient humanity visually, I think. Perhaps to show that current humanity is slowly getting back up to their former tech level, and this time with Forerunner techs help.

 

[Poodlestrike]

That new armour is also a bit mindful of ancient humanity visually, I think. Perhaps to show that current humanity is slowly getting back up to their former tech level, and this time with Forerunner techs help.

Good spot.

Something occurs to me: could the UNSC's use of Forerunner technology potentially end up backfiring on them? There's an episode of SG-1 where they try and build a hybrid human/alien space fighter without really understanding the tech behind it, and it ends up being booby trapped. Could something similar happen to humanity (or, now that I stop and think about it, the Covenant), now that we've begun to see Forerunners in the flesh?

 

[MrGreencastle]

If you were to make a comparison between Mengele and Halsey, you could say that both took advantage of a political climate that allowed them to commit barbarous acts. Halsey certainly was more clinical and focused than Mengele, and I cannot consider what drove Mengele to do the things he did, though as a fictional character we obviously have a lot more to go on with Halsey

Personally, I think if you ask Halsey's Spartan IIs what they think (the one's that don't resent the crap out of her because of various failures in the unprecedented program, like Serin), the majority would say that ultimately, both her motivations, and morality were largely irrelevant (

Spoiler

though I don't believe her motivations were based in hubris... despite how she projects herself, she even speaks about how she had "no choice" but to be that emotional rock for "her" Spartans to "look up to" - which is why she took Keyes off the program because she knew he didn't have it in him to be what was required for success

).

The Spartan IIs may have been "brainwashed" as far as their knowledge of their pre-Spartan life and forced indoctrination into the UNSC was concerned, but they aren't mindless, they're mostly very highly intelligent, and despite Master Chief's stoicism in-game, they aren't emotionally hollow, either. A bit broken, sure, but the majority cared for Halsey greatly, and vice versa - she disowned her own daughter "for" them. Though they are almost all dead now, I think they would be more than capable of understanding and accepting that their disturbing coming of "existence" was a product of necessity - a necessity that, though unknown at the time, proved to be unbelievably more dire than any of Dr. Elias Carver's and thus ONI's predictions had anticipated - which were then later reaffirmed with Halsey's more accurate followup thesis. I say "later" as in when she was only 18 she arrived at the exact same conclusions as ONI's top minds did with respect to anticipating the incoming insurgency rebellion via an unbelievably complex multidimensional prediction matrix model - though Halsey's proved even better than ONI and Dr. Carver's (

Spoiler

who committed suicide soon after because he blamed himself where he believed his own prediction models were the catalyst for the insurgencies in the first place

). The MINIMUM effect of which was projected at thirty years of civil war in colony-space and 5 billion people dead, a far cry to the results of the Human-Covenant war, sure, but still absolutely unacceptable to the UNSC and ONI. That's how they "recruited" Halsey in the first place to do what "needed" to be done to prevent that from happening - initially with AI research and development, then SPARTAN II, then MJOLNIR, and finally Cortana - brilliantly culminating with their unison at the last possible "minute" - John 117.

I'd say the obvious answer to the "why me?" question some of the Spartans IIs might ask when told of their past is purely a matter of luck-of-the-draw chance: they had the "best" of the stringently required genetics out of everyone in the genetic database, and so: they were used as a means to fulfill that requirement. Halsey and thus the Spartan IIs labelled that certain forced sacrifice: "Duty", but it isn't so black and white(

Spoiler

The Mantle of Responsibility

). Anyone otherwise, and even more children would have needlessly died in the program because this was at an unprecedented point of time for the development and convergence of the needed technologies. Halsey was "driving blind" (

Spoiler

like parenthood

), because they didn't have the time, research, or technology to refer to to do anything otherwise (

Spoiler

aside from ORION, most of which was Halsey's own research anyway, the most substantial breakthroughs curiously coming from xenoarcheological --Forerunner-- study - also largely via Halsey

), which is why ONI "stole" and reverse-engineered her research to use for the Spartan III program and hid it from her, because they wanted a much larger security net that was more expendable, cheaper, quicker, and "easier" to control - unlike Halsey - and because they knew she would protest and criticize the hell out of the "rush job" that they were doing in even greater secrecy than herself.

Asking the parents, or hell anyone outside the program looking in, however? And it's obvious what the answer would be: Hell no, she's an evil, twisted bitch, just like her characterization both metaphorically and literally in Kilo 5 (how many times is Halsey called a bitch in there again?).

--

I should read that FUD post-mortem!

 

[Caayn]

What ship is this?

For some reason I have the feeling that I've seen that ship before. Also if you look on page 142 of the book "Awakening the art of Halo 4" and look at the second design on the second row it looks like an inspiration for that ship.

 

[Fuchsdh]

stuff

My response to that would be wonder, does it matter how intelligent you are? If essentially your entire life is spent getting n drilled into you, it doesn't matter how smart you are, you're always going to be starting from the default assumption that n is correct. The Spartans aren't stupid, but I'd argue they are effectively brainwashed. Halsey is the chickenwire mother they bonded with in the absense of real parents.

 

[Master Yoshi]

So this is where Halo takes the GTA V approach and we play as Master Chief, Agent Locke and the Arbiter throughout campaign, right?

I'm hoping that perhaps the Arbiter will be the one to take down Jul M'dama and retrieve Halsey, perhaps with the help of Agent Locke. They could then set off to track down Chief, who has gone MIA after the events of Halo 4.

I have a question for those more knowledgeable than myself in the Halo lore;

Could Dr. Halsey herself be the Librarian, or at least contain the Librarian, dormant within her? From what I remember, I've read that 343 GS is still very much alive, and he has commandeered a human ship (ONI?) with the location of the Librarian as his destination.

 

[DesertFox]

Did we ever find out who/what crashed on the Halo ring from the Anniversary terminals?

I've also been wondering this since it appeared in Halo CEA. My assumption is that it was a Covenant ship who's crew was dead on arrival or all died on impact before they could phone home the location of the "artifact."

Not sure if that theory lines up with the time frame of the crash event though. When was that event anyway? Closer to Halo activation or Pillar of Autumn arrival?

 

[Poodlestrike]

So, catalog's at it again.

Interesting tidbits:
Gamma company was disbanded after the war, with some members returning to civilian life (didn't know Spartans were allowed to do that) and some joining the "exploratii" (Google has failed me. Anyone know what that means?)

There's apparently at least one faction of independent Grunts

Sergeant Johnson was apparently not rendered immune to Flood infection by his augmentations.

Plus a ton of other stuff.

 

[Deadly]

Sergeant Johnson was apparently not rendered immune to Flood infection by his augmentations.

It was explained in First Strike that he was exposed to so many plasma explosions at one point that it fucked up his system and made him incompatible according to the Flood.

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently that was retconned in the GN and Encyclopedia...

 

[Poodlestrike]

It was explained in First Strike that he was exposed to so many plasma explosions at one point that it fucked up his system and made him incompatible according to the Flood.

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently that was retconned in the GN and Encyclopedia...

I thought that was the "official" explanations for the side effects stemming from being in project Orion.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

What criteria allows certain humans to be designated as Reclaimers while other humans are not, as evident by failed Covenant attempts to access Requiem systems via kidnapped humans?

Query Answer: "Reclaimer" is not a legitimate client species status. Edom [control] reference New Council emergency directives [leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant] given on authority of [Librarian] and [Didact]. Master Juridical concurrence not recorded [ius nullum?]. Status conferred by analysis of geas [symphonia].
Alert! Substantial alteration of [canonical] implemention of Human [supplicium] detected in [symphonia] scope.

Interesante.

Edit: Crap those are great answers! The Ur-Didact speech at the end of Halo 4 was previously recorder prior to "loss of domain contact", so at least we know it wasn't him talking in present day.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I thought that was the "official" explanations for the side effects stemming from being in project Orion.

Well apparently 343 disagrees.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Well apparently 343 disagrees.

No, I meant the plasma grenade thing; the official explanation (in universe: coverup) for the SPARTAN-1 stuff Johnson got up to was exposure to tons of plasma grenades.

 

[Deadly]

No, I meant the plasma grenade thing; the official explanation for the SPARTAN-1 stuff Johnson got up to was exposure to tons of plasma grenades.

Yeah it is, like I mentioned in my edit the Spartan-1 stuff came from the graphic novel and the encyclopedia I think?

 

[MrGreencastle]

Cortana and the Three Wise Monkeys


First, some facts:

• To create a "Smart AI", a deep scan creates a copy of a particular brain's unique architecture to act as the initial "seed" for an AI, stored in a crystal. Often memories and personalities are transferred in this process.
• It is only a "seed" because the AI takes over once "turned on" and shifts, adds, and adapts their own architecture as they gain new information.
• The UNSC had long ago made cloning people illegal as per the Mortal Dictata. Cloning certain organs and such for transplants was fine.
• Because the scanning process used to replicate each brain's neural structure to create the AIs would destroy the brain's tissue, all "Smart" AIs were each created based on a "donated" brain of someone who had already died (
  Spoiler

  Spoiler

  It has been suggested that ONI may have abducted people to "steal their brains", but that's not proven
  )
• Scanning a living brain was also illegal - considering it would kill them.

Halsey's "final upgrade" to the MJOLNIR Mk V project was to enable a direct link between the Spartans' brain and an AI. She felt this was her last "gift" to them, so that they could finally operate at their full potential against the Covenant - with the greatest chance for survival. No available AI candidate was "intellectually agile" enough for this, so she cloned herself to create Cortana, but not exactly - she altered the clones' genetics by "enhancing the neural physiology at the expense of the other bodily functions". Effectively creating "super versions" of herself, intellectually speaking.

Twenty clones were grown by her in secret, all of them very likely possessing awareness as any thinking being:

Once they were "old enough", Halsey excised the brains from the clones and placed them in cryogenic suspension, then incinerated what remained of their "bodies" to hide the evidence of what she had done. Most of the brains were unusable, and were destroyed, except for specimens "H-1, H-2, H-3, and H-4".

Cortana was created from specimen H-1.

H-2, H-3, and H-4 were kept in cryogenic suspension somewhere secure and secret, because she apparently had "other, future plans for them as technology evolved" (her words)

In short, as AIs grow and learn, they need to create new neural connections inside their storage crystal. Halsey found that AIs go rampant because they run out of physical space inside their crystal, making them unable to add new connections. Onset of rampancy occurs when the AI begins severing old connections that aren't needed to make room for the new ones as a means of self-preservation. Eventually, there are fewer and fewer unneeded connections to delete, and the AI has to weigh which to remove to continue processing information. Over time, the AI will have severed too many important connection to make these decisions correctly, slowly "thinking themselves to death."

To attempt to circumvent this, Halsey postulated a couple potential solutions:

• Create a housing crystal in slipspace that is of infinite size, not limited by space-time (
  Spoiler

  she actually tried doing this not long before creating Cortana
  )
• Create a new AI architecture with three AIs arranged in parallel. All decisions would be made by majority vote. If one abstains, the tie resolves randomly.

16 years before she made Cortana, she wrote about the second theory in her Journal:

See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil.

Also, in Halo 4 on the second level right after Chief awakes, you can find a recording of Halsey:

Catherine Halsey Research Excerpt, 11 February 2550.
"The interesting factor here isn't that H-1 disabled the viral termination code I had implanted in her matrix. These metrics imply its success wasn't just unlikely, but that even the accepted 7-year life cycle estimates may not apply. Thus far, I've determined that the unique circumstances of her creation have triggered what I can only refer to as a recessive variant in the A.I seed. As her architect, I'm currently at a loss as to the origin of the development of this rogue element. Very curious."

She refers to Cortana here as H-1, and notes that the unique circumstances of her creation (cloning herself with enhanced neural capability) triggered a recessive variant in the AI seed (from the cloned brains) and that she may not be limited by the usual 7-year life cycle of other smart AIs. What exactly spurred this recessive variant? Halsey couldn't come up with an answer in 2550, anyway.

Then later in Halo 4, during an "emotional" breakdown after Cortana fails to prevent the Didact from composing everyone on Ivanoff Station, she says to Chief:

"They'll pair you with another AI… maybe even another Cortana model if Halsey lets them. It won't be me, you know that right?"

This all leads me to some rampant speculation: Halsey will create (

Spoiler

or already has created

) a "super Cortana" based on a triumvirate architecture from her unused specimens, H-2, -3, and -4. Maybe we will see the results of this in Halo 5?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Cortana and the Three Wise Monkeys
-snip-

Have I mentioned how cool these bigass posts of yours are? No sarcasm, this is some legitimately interesting stuff. The Halo take on AI has always struck me as very unique, especially the differences between "smart" and "dumb" AI. Have we ever seen Cortana (or any of the other smart AIs) interact with a dumb AI with any sort of personality, like Deja?

Also, the cloning for AI research strikes me as being remarkably similar to one of the main plotlines in RvB, of all things.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Have I mentioned how cool these bigass posts of yours are? No sarcasm, this is some legitimately interesting stuff. The Halo take on AI has always struck me as very unique, especially the differences between "smart" and "dumb" AI. Have we ever seen Cortana (or any of the other smart AIs) interact with a dumb AI with any sort of personality, like Deja?

Also, the cloning for AI research strikes me as being remarkably similar to one of the main plotlines in RvB, of all things.

Could you elaborate a bit on that please? I have only watched the first season or so of RVB so I'm completely unfamiliar with the story.

And thank you! This one is a crosspost from a response in the community thread that accidentally ended up turning into a bigass post. Yet again distracted from working on my Terminal post (

Spoiler

still incoming, I promise, though it is gonna have to be split into two, I've reached the character limit again!

)

 

[Slightly Live]

Halsey has not been in a position to work on any of her projects for some time now. I'd say that fact alone rules out a lot.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Could you elaborate a bit on that please? I have only watched the first season or so of RVB so I'm completely unfamiliar with the story.

And thank you! This one is a crosspost from a response in the community thread that accidentally ended up turning into a bigass post. Yet again distracted from working on my Terminal post (

Spoiler

still incoming, I promise, though it is gonna have to be split into two, I've reached the character limit again!

)

Spoiler

Without giving too much away, we meet a number of AI later on, all of which are "fragments" of a larger whole, called the Alpha. We also become aware of a dude called The Director, who was running a wartime super soldier program. These fragments were produced by torturing the Alpha until it suffered a mental break, and split part of itself off. They did this because in RvB canon, you cannot copy AIs, and making them requires copying a human brain. The brain used as a baseline for the Alpha? The Director. So, we have a genius scientist in charge of a program designed to make the perfect soldier, doing deeply unethical things to their own clones in an effort to produce an/enough AIs to perfect those soldiers.

Seriously, the similarities are odd, considering that this stuff came out before Halsey's journal.

 

[aj1467]

So, catalog's at it again.

Interesting tidbits:
Gamma company was disbanded after the war, with some members returning to civilian life (didn't know Spartans were allowed to do that) and some joining the "exploratii" (Google has failed me. Anyone know what that means?)

I'm guessing they were given the option to leave since they were still kids when the war ended?

And Catalog has referred to Spartans as "exploratii" in the past (think it was when he talked about Black Team), so my guess is that he is talking about the Spartan branch.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm guessing they were given the option to leave since they were still kids when the war ended?

And Catalog has referred to Spartans as "exploratii" in the past (think it was when he talked about Black Team), so my guess is that he is talking about the Spartan branch.

I imagine giving them the option was part of the "Spartan project was bad but now it's so much better" propaganda spin to roll out the super-duper Spartan IVs.

I'm sure they gave the remaining Spartan-IIs the option as well, although I can't imagine many of them taking it.

 

[LordOfChaos]

So I'm 100 pages from finishing Mortal Dictata, and I'm rewatching the Spartan Ops cutscenes for fun. Did anyone else take issue with how Osman was portrayed in SO? She was so much more of a sympathetic character in Kilo Five. Though, perhaps she went Full-Parangosky after taking the job.

http://youtu.be/Jid6DeE3EWQ?t=35m40s

The three remaining Halsey superbrain clones are certainly interesting. In the current point in the story it seems it will take some time before she ever gets back to them though, unless she had already converted one or all of them into an AI, singular or individual.

The three AIs in sequence combining to form one AI doesn't quite sit well with me though, especially for Johns next companion. I don't really have a good reason why, I guess it could just seem like one personality externally, but internally it would forever be in conflict between three essentially human personalities.

Super Cortana in Slipspace, that could be interesting.

And for the love of god, if Halsey can beat the 7 year lifespan through whichever method and perhaps rescue dead AIs, save Black Box! Best AI.

 

[Poodlestrike]

So I'm 100 pages from finishing Mortal Dictata, and I'm rewatching the Spartan Ops cutscenes for fun. Did anyone else take issue with how Osman was portrayed in SO? She was so much more of a sympathetic character in Kilo Five. Though, perhaps she went Full-Parangosky after taking the job.

http://youtu.be/Jid6DeE3EWQ?t=35m40s

Just rewatched them myself, actually. I think it fits; personally, I found her to be a little too sympathetic considering her job description. Besides, this is Halsey we're talking about. Osman's probably been looking for a reason.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Just rewatched them myself, actually. I think it fits; personally, I found her to be a little too sympathetic considering her job description. Besides, this is Halsey we're talking about. Osman's probably been looking for a reason.

She can hate Halsey all she wants, but dripping contempt while talking to Laskey (who is a good guy, whatever you think of Halsey) seemed too much of the evil villain portrayal.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Just rewatched them myself, actually. I think it fits; personally, I found her to be a little too sympathetic considering her job description. Besides, this is Halsey we're talking about. Osman's probably been looking for a reason.

We're also seeing this character four years after we left her. Might be the job is getting to her. But considering her sentiments in the K5 trilogy I wouldn't put her past succumbing to her vendetta and taking the first opportunity to off her when some plausible reason appears. I dunno if she actually believes Halsey would defect, but she wouldn't be above using that as cover.

 

[Poodlestrike]

She can hate Halsey all she wants, but dripping contempt while talking to Laskey (who is a good guy, whatever you think of Halsey) seemed too much of the evil villain portrayal.

Hate makes people act irrational; Lasky objected to her pursuing her vendetta, so he earned her contempt. Makes sense to me.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

I always felt the K5 books were skewed towards ONI's perspective anyway, so it stands to reason that she could/would act differently in a different medium. Also, as someone else mentioned, it's been some time since the end of the books, and running ONI can't be easy, I am sure it //does// things to you, even a former Spartan.

I tend to regard the games as more representative than the books, mostly due to the author prejudice that comes into play sometimes with so many different people taking on the same material. (Even though more than one person did the game stories obviously too)

 

[Mistel]

Something occurs to me: could the UNSC's use of Forerunner technology potentially end up backfiring on them? There's an episode of SG-1 where they try and build a hybrid human/alien space fighter without really understanding the tech behind it, and it ends up being booby trapped. Could something similar happen to humanity (or, now that I stop and think about it, the Covenant), now that we've begun to see Forerunners in the flesh?

That was with a recall function that was installed within the gliders that were used for the X301 interceptor. I assume a similar scenario could occur with forerunner technology. Maybe the covenant has already experienced something of that nature during their reverse engineering.

 

[Caayn]

So I'm 100 pages from finishing Mortal Dictata, and I'm rewatching the Spartan Ops cutscenes for fun. Did anyone else take issue with how Osman was portrayed in SO? She was so much more of a sympathetic character in Kilo Five. Though, perhaps she went Full-Parangosky after taking the job.

http://youtu.be/Jid6DeE3EWQ?t=35m40s

Didn't bother me plus her time as CINCONI should have changed her body language a bit.

 

[GringoSuave89]

For such a quick scene, it didn't seem out of character. She's "Queen Spook" at this point, she has to be intimidating.

Black Box was the best part of the K-5 Trilogy.

Spoiler

I miss him :/

 

[Fuchsdh]

Good spot.

Something occurs to me: could the UNSC's use of Forerunner technology potentially end up backfiring on them? There's an episode of SG-1 where they try and build a hybrid human/alien space fighter without really understanding the tech behind it, and it ends up being booby trapped. Could something similar happen to humanity (or, now that I stop and think about it, the Covenant), now that we've begun to see Forerunners in the flesh?

I think there's a bigger concern, that's already been articulated; the Engineers don't leave plans or schematics. If you start relying on them for your upgrades or optimizations, you're going to be screwed if you find yourself without an Engineer (such as the post-war Covenant, which is why I'm interested in knowing how the Storm operates.) Hence why there was the talk in the K5 books about being careful letting the Engineers off the chain and doing what they wanted.

As for your talk about "unintended consequences", we already got some of that in Spartan Ops where the Forerunner components of Infinity's engines reacted to Requiem.

 

[LordOfChaos]

We're also seeing this character four years after we left her. Might be the job is getting to her. But considering her sentiments in the K5 trilogy I wouldn't put her past succumbing to her vendetta and taking the first opportunity to off her when some plausible reason appears. I dunno if she actually believes Halsey would defect, but she wouldn't be above using that as cover.

This is all true too. Still, it makes BBs "You can build the ONI you want it to be" seem a bit...Wasted, if she's just going to be the same as big Maggie. And I really liked BB.

 

[Poodlestrike]

This is all true too. Still, it makes BBs "You can build the ONI you want it to be" seem a bit...Wasted, if she's just going to be the same as big Maggie. And I really liked BB.

It's a lot like The Godfather, in a way. Nothing wrong with the classics.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

This is all true too. Still, it makes BBs "You can build the ONI you want it to be" seem a bit...Wasted, if she's just going to be the same as big Maggie. And I really liked BB.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Also, I really think her talking to her 'friends' or people she respects would probably come off differently.

Also also, having the head of ONI be "likable" doesn't sound very appealing to me

 

[MrGreencastle]

So I'm 100 pages from finishing Mortal Dictata, and I'm rewatching the Spartan Ops cutscenes for fun. Did anyone else take issue with how Osman was portrayed in SO? She was so much more of a sympathetic character in Kilo Five. Though, perhaps she went Full-Parangosky after taking the job.

http://youtu.be/Jid6DeE3EWQ?t=35m40s

The three remaining Halsey superbrain clones are certainly interesting. In the current point in the story it seems it will take some time before she ever gets back to them though, unless she had already converted one or all of them into an AI, singular or individual.

The three AIs in sequence combining to form one AI doesn't quite sit well with me though, especially for Johns next companion. I don't really have a good reason why, I guess it could just seem like one personality externally, but internally it would forever be in conflict between three essentially human personalities.

Super Cortana in Slipspace, that could be interesting.

And for the love of god, if Halsey can beat the 7 year lifespan through whichever method and perhaps rescue dead AIs, save Black Box! Best AI.

I don't even want to think about thinking about the implications of an AI not limited by spacetime thinking at FTL speeds. It's more out there than the Assembly.

BB needs to make an appearance in game!

 

[daedalius]

Green, your shots and analysis on the maps is amazing; your mega posts in halogaf have convinced me this is a daily thread check now.

I've got some halo arts in the works, will be sure to post here, I imagine this thread would likely be more appreciative than halogaf, haha.

All said, I really hope the giant creature in the original H5 trailer is MB; I mean, it'd have to be after that ridiculous hidden chapter of Silentium...

If you haven't read the hidden chapter of Silentium, you need to go do it now!

Edit: Watching that SDCC universe panel again, I think I watched it live... can't remember.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Green, your shots and analysis on the maps is amazing; your mega posts in halogaf have convinced me this is a daily thread check now.

I've got some halo arts in the works, will be sure to post here, I imagine this thread would likely be more appreciative than halogaf, haha.

All said, I really hope the giant creature in the original H5 trailer is MB; I mean, it'd have to be after that ridiculous hidden chapter of Silentium...

If you haven't read the hidden chapter of Silentium, you need to go do it now!

Thank you I look forward to seeing said arts.

Here are some ideas adapted from the community thread for the birdcreaturething from the Halo E3 '13 teaser:

Speculation on possibilities:
-A: A Cryptum (based on the burial, and the big pulse it gives off, just like UrDidact's Cryptum in Halo 4 before opening)

Excerpt from Cryptum (the book) on how to deal with a Cryptum should you run across one:

In the archives of treasure-seekers, such tales were inevitably followed by warnings. If one should come across something called a Cryptum, or a Warrior Keep, one should leave it alone. Violating a Cryptum, whatever it was, came with nasty consequences, not the least of which involved angering the highly protective guild of Warrior-Servants.

-B: A War Sphinx, which was an old Forerunner battle harness/vehicle

Excerpt from Cryptum concerning War Sphinxes:

Ahead, clearly visible now, not white apes but twelve midsize Forerunner fighting suits, arranged in a wide oval about a hundred meters across the long axis. I had spent long hours studying old weapons and ships, to better distinguish them from more interesting finds. Swallowing back disappointment, I recognized them as war sphinxes—flown into battle by Warrior-Servants in ages past but now found only in museums. Antiques, to be sure, and possibly still active and powerful—but of no interest to me whatsoever.
...
Each war sphinx was ten meters high and twenty long—larger than contemporary Forerunner suits that served the same function. An elongated tail contained lift and power, and from that, at the front, rose a thick, rounded torso. Atop the torso, smoothly integrated with the overall curvilinear design, perched an abstract head with a stubborn, haughty face—a command cabin.

Not exactly considered advanced tech at that point in Forerunner history ~100 000 years ago. And the size doesn't exactly seem to match up... Though, it is refered to as a midsize (10m high, 20m long), though they, antiques they are, seem to occupy a function similar to their armour at that point.

Alternatively, it could be a new class of War Sphinx, or a seeker of the Builder rate, described as larger, less ornate but more powerful versions of War Sphinxes. Or any number of similar Forerunner combat "frames", similar to the UNSC Booster Frames shown in Halo Legends and Escalation.

From Cryptum:

Into my narrowing point of view came three powerful, fully operational seekers—longer, sleeker, versions of the Didact’s old war sphinxes. They lacked the scowling features of the older machines—depersonalized, dark, fast.

Also, this image in Terminal 4 from Halo 3, discussing combat skins and battle harnesses, notice the depiction on the left side:

Certainly looks like something that can open up with birdlike wings...

-C: It could be Mendicant Bias (or even a seeker assigned to protect/defend/contain it), because the giant birdmachine was buried under sand, and in Silentium: The Trial of Mendicant Bias, we note that the IsoDidact/Bornstellar buries a significant piece of Mendicant Bias in a tomb under sand on the Ark, and I like the idea that this location from the trailer is on the Ark...

Silentium Rebirth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3YLl2NLVFA

 

[daedalius]

Silentium Rebirth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3YLl2NLVFA

Omg such chills!

 

[MrGreencastle]

Omg such chills!

Right? Greg Bear has an epic reading voice. His experienced rasp works well for the poetic and ancient sounding style of Silentium, though he only reads the Rebirth and Trial of Mendicant Bias parts. Primordium is the best audiobook version I think (MAJOR SPOILERS), since it's read by Tim Dadabo, so you get all the Chakas and 343GS parts in their canon voice (including distortion) - really cool. There's even some parts with Jen Taylor in there, too.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I don't even want to think about thinking about the implications of an AI not limited by spacetime thinking at FTL speeds. It's more out there than the Assembly.

BB needs to make an appearance in game!

Or how about

"Well then, slipspace super-Cortana, now that you have virtually unlimited compute ability through your FTL core, can you tell us something? Is there a god?"
"NOW THERE IS", boomed her voice from everywhere, just as every other AI in the galaxy ceased to function.

Aww shit.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Just what in the hell are the Prophets obtaining here? Something the Arbiter has betrayed us for?

Spoiler

Are we going after the Arbiter in the next Master Chief game?

I guess the question is, is that scene past or present? I know it looks like the San'shyuum are in more advanced getups than we've seen, but it was mentioned in one of the early books (fall of reach? or The Flood?) that they use the gravity chairs to remind other races how pimp they are. So if that image is from their own homeworld, perhaps they're just in their space pajamas there.

Post-Halo 3 and all the novels up to Halo 4 siding with the Prophets again? I'm thinking hell no. He, and all the Sangheili, hate them. Past then, I would say. The "what will you call me when you learn what I've done" could be for Locke as he reads/views all the history.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Post-Halo 3 and all the novels up to Halo 4 siding with the Prophets again? I'm thinking hell no. He, and all the Sangheili, hate them. Past then, I would say. The "what will you call me when you learn what I've done" could be for Locke as he reads/views all the history.

I always thought the Prophets were tragic figures. More than any other race in the Covenant their existence practically depended on the status quo being upheld. Sure, they were underhanded, but their survival as a species depended on it.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I always thought the Prophets were tragic figures. More than any other race in the Covenant their existence practically depended on the status quo being upheld. Sure, they were underhanded, but their survival as a species depended on it.

I think the upcoming book will do a lot to redeem the species' image. We've only ever really spent time with the top-tier powermongers; what does the average Prophet even do with their time?

 

[LordOfChaos]

I think the upcoming book will do a lot to redeem the species' image. We've only ever really spent time with the top-tier powermongers; what does the average Prophet even do with their time?

Yeah, I've wondered that. Probably a whole lot of not-being-prophets. Think about baby prophets of the gods wandering around in diapers shitting everywhere. The human given name itself must only refer to a subclass of them, like say if the covenant had only encountered our religious missionary first and decided to call our whole species "Missionary's" or something.

I also wonder if there was disagreement among the San'Shyuum masses about things like the Forerunners, if some didn't even think they were gods (or want to trick the other species into thinking so). The Sangheili were shown to have lots of different opinions, the Kig-Yar were, the Unngoy were, humans definitely were, Forerunners were...Yet so far, the San'Shyuum have been portrayed the most one sidedly.