I always thought the Prophets were tragic figures. More than any other race in the Covenant their existence practically depended on the status quo being upheld. Sure, they were underhanded, but their survival as a species depended on it.
Well it doesn't help that all the Prophets we've encountered so far are manipulative and constantly vying for control.
The Prophet of Restraint impregnated a young San 'Shyuum and she refused to abort it, so he convinced the then Vice Minister of Tranquility to claim the children were his own. The only condition was that he step down as High Prophet. The Vice Minister eventually became the Prophet of Regret.
I always thought the Prophets were tragic figures. More than any other race in the Covenant their existence practically depended on the status quo being upheld. Sure, they were underhanded, but their survival as a species depended on it.
I agree. The Prophet story is pretty tragic. Though ancient humans had been allied to them for a long time, their "punishment" by the Forerunners was considerably more severe compared to humanity's. Although, perhaps it is more accurate to refer to the race on the whole as San 'Shyuum, and the Covenant-aligned individuals as Prophets - which, come to think of it, the name is somewhat ironic considering their species' "known" history at this point.
Though was Truth a hero or villain of the Covenant, ultimately? (and to a lesser extent, Regret, and even less than that, Mercy). Even his self-chosen name was the ironic apex of his complete bullshit-weaving political tactics. I adore his character similar to how I adore Palpatine's. edit: I too feel like the "last Hierarchy" was not very representative of the Prophets, or even of the long history of the Covenant altogether. They (well, mostly Truth and Regret) wielded the Covenant's inherent religious zealotry to aim them toward their complete advantage and absolute control, the culmination of which shattered the foundations of the Covenant completely.
The best line he ever spoke, in my opinion, and a perfect summation of his character if you realize the depth to it:
"Politics... How tiresome. Do you know, Arbiter, the Elites have threatened to resign - to quit the High Council... because of this... exchange of hats?" -Sacred Icon cutscene, Halo 2 (clicky)
I agree. The Prophet story is pretty tragic. Though ancient humans had been allied to them for a long time, their "punishment" by the Forerunners was considerably more severe compared to humanity's.
Were the San'Shyuum devolved at all, like humanity was? I see that young members of their species were capable warriors and considered attractive during the alliance with ancient humanity, but we havn't seen any young San'Shyuum on screen yet (though, perhaps that image on the last page).
Speaking of that, I've been wondering how the Halo lore reconciles so many human species dying off, leaving only us Homo Sapiens. Did the Librarian plan that? Or the DIdact?
Also, just finished the last bit of The Mortal Dictata. Despite the haterade going around, I really enjoyed Kilo-5. Sure, it was like hitting a brick wall coming off the speed rush of Ghosts of Onyx, but once I got into the slower pacing and greater consideration of characters it was rather interesting. I found I cared about nearly everyone in it. BB most of all, arguably the most human character in it.
Were the San'Shyuum devolved at all, like humanity was? I see that young members of their species were capable warriors and considered attractive during the alliance with ancient humanity, but we havn't seen any young San'Shyuum on screen yet (though, perhaps that image on the last page).
Speaking of that, I've been wondering how the Halo lore reconciles so many human species dying off, leaving only us Homo Sapiens. Did the Librarian plan that? Or the DIdact?
Also, just finished the last bit of The Mortal Dictata. Despite the haterade going around, I really enjoyed Kilo-5. Sure, it was like hitting a brick wall coming off the speed rush of Ghosts of Onyx, but once I got into the slower pacing and greater consideration of characters it was rather interesting. I found I cared about nearly everyone in it.
Were the San'Shyuum devolved at all, like humanity was? I see that young members of their species were capable warriors and considered attractive during the alliance with ancient humanity, but we havn't seen any young San'Shyuum on screen yet (though, perhaps that image on the last page).
Speaking of that, I've been wondering how the Halo lore reconciles so many human species dying off, leaving only us Homo Sapiens. Did the Librarian plan that? Or the DIdact?
Also, just finished the last bit of The Mortal Dictata. Despite the haterade going around, I really enjoyed Kilo-5. Sure, it was like hitting a brick wall coming off the speed rush of Ghosts of Onyx, but once I got into the slower pacing and greater consideration of characters it was rather interesting. I found I cared about nearly everyone in it.
That... is a very good question. Not to mention the fact that Homo Sapiens seems to have been partially responsible wiping out at least one of them. My first bet is to chalk it up to unintended consequences; the Librarian, while powerful, wasn't omniscient. She needed a certain set of circumstances to come about at some point; even controlling that is hugely impressive. Perhaps outside of that, she just couldn't account for enough eventualities? Or perhaps she did account for it, and regarded it as a necessary sacrifice; Homo Sapiens, for whatever reason, fit her plans better, and if the others need to die out to ensure our survival, so be it.
After poking at it for a few days, here's my breakdown/rant concerning last week's teaser. Warning, spoilers ahead, and lot's and lot's and lot's of images and gifs. And the usual expected disjointedness, too. Apologies if some stuff is out of sequence, I changed some things around to make it fit together a little bit better. I must say this trailer hyped me to embarrassing levels for Halo 2 Anniversary, so there's a few tangents and additions, mostly just for fun and imagining what it will look like with a new coat of digital paint. Because of this, it might not be super clear exactly which images are from the teaser if you aren't reading the text, something I didn't realize until finishing up the post. I don't want to remove anything, so I've added underlined descriptions before each image or gif as a broad source, which might make some things sound redundant. Hopefully it helps, anyway.
Sorry mobile users.
--
Part 1
To begin, here's Arby's monologue from the teaser (hell of a focus on this brother lately, which is real nice after his utter absence from 4):
"I have had many names in this long war. The humans knew me as: Destroyer. To the Covenant, I was: Supreme Commander. The Prophets named me: Arbiter. And your Master Chief calls me: Friend. How well do you know your friend, human? And what will you call me when you learn the truth of what I have done?" -Thel 'Vadam/ee, the Arbiter
The trailer opens and we see what seems to be a terminal, where Chief is logging into an ONI-based secure server. It is unclear if this is the structure of the terminals, or just this trailer.
Terminal Trailer:
Terminal Trailer:
The words ONI TARGET ACQUISITIONS flash on screen, followed by a "target profile" of the Arbiter, presumably being transferred to or read by Chief. Though since Arbiter is referred to as Thel 'Vadamee, the "ee" part at the end of his name means this report was delivered, or at least compiled, before the time of the Great Schism in the Covenant, the civil war orchestrated by the Prophet Hierarchy (unless ONI was unaware of his name change - but I'd say that's unlikely).
Extra info on this and Arbiter:
The Sangheili - the Elites - would structure their name based on the State that they hail from. Their home planet, Sanghelios, does not have unified countries or governments - it is more feudal, with various competing factions all with long histories and whose leaders are elected and maintained based on a sheer competence of strength. Many of these clans have a "Keep" which acts the central historical and political structure within the State - think something along the lines of an ancestral castle or headquarters. Leading up to the events of Halo 2, Thel 'Vadamee had been the protector and leader (Kaidon) of his clan "Vadam", one of the most powerful States on Sanghelios. He was also the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice - one of the primary and largest fleets in the Covenant at over 300 ships during the Battle of Reach just before Halo CE. As punishment for a terribly unfortunate series of failures directly caused by Master Chief's actions in Halo CE - the pinnacle being his failure to prevent the destruction of their sacred Halo ring - Thel 'Vadamee was stripped of his name and branded with the Mark of Shame, shown in the opening events of Halo 2. Here is some concept art for Halo 5 with what is highly likely to be Vadam Keep, Arbiter's own stomping grounds, which you can also briefly see in the E3 '14 teaser trailer:
Interestingly, Thel has an ONI target value of ALPHA - which you would assume is of a very high priority, perhaps second only to the high Prophets themselves. The report was compiled by a Lieutenant Commander Jameson Locke (
So that Marlowe name from Halo Nightfall's casting "leak" seems to have been placeholder, unless there is more than one ONI agent in the Locke "family"
). Agent Locke is the mysterious ONI Spartan who will be the focus in Halo Nightfall. He is displayed on the cover of Halo 5 Guardians, and shown in the MCC teaser speaking with the Arbiter while observing video records of Master Chief's exploits from Halo CE through 4.
So, Arbiter was an Alpha-level target at some point before 2552, but based on the MCC teaser Locke is not looking to kill him in 2558/9, even seeking his council. It is unclear if the report was compiled by Locke for Chief to carry out, or if Chief is looking back into the report at a later point in time.
We see Thel in his yellow Supreme Commander Covenant armour, similar to the one he wears in the opening cutscene to Halo 2. I'm a big fan of this more classic-looking Elite armour design, here's some of that just for fun:
Halo 2:
Prophet of Regret (via hologram): "Noble Prophet of Truth, this has gone on long enough! Make an example of this bungler! The Council demands it!"
Prophet of Truth (silencing Regret, and speaking to Thel): "You are one of our most treasured instruments. Long have you led your fleet with honour and distinction, but your inability to safeguard Halo... was a colossal failure - "
Council Prophet of Objection (
voiced by Marty O'Donnell's dad
): " - NAY! It was HERESY!"
Thel 'Vadamee: "I will continue my campaign against the humans!"
Prophet of Truth: "No! You will not. Soon the Great Journey shall begin, but when it does, the weight of your heresy will stay your feet, and you shall be left behind."
Back to the teaser: Thel's got an energy sword and he's holding an unknown marine in the air with his other hand, Darth Vader-style - before tossing him to the ground shouting either in great pride or great anger. The marine already seems to be dead before he tosses him to the ground, though, and he doesn't seem to have any flesh wounds from an energy sword (
would they even show this?
). I'm not sure where or when this scene is supposed to be, as it could pretty much fall anywhere between 2535 and 2552, since those are the years when he was Supreme Commander. I just want to point out how amazing the animation looks here, I really love the smoke and flame floating around among the debris. Terminal Trailer:
A nice skyline shot of the Covenant glassing a city on some planet. I think this may be New Alexandria, on Reach. The large skyscraper in the foreground being ONI's Olympic Tower Headquarters? Obviously it could be any number of cities on any number of planets, but the shot is very similar to one from Halo Reach (Exodus), and the skylines, and colours from before just screams "Reach" to me.
Terminal Trailer:
A Longsword being shot down by a Phantom and some destroyed human and Covenant ships. I'm thinking this might be the Battle of Reach, but I'm not sure, and it's difficult to prove. Also, is that supposed to be lens flare, or a reflection?
The interesting snippet that is shown below has left me bit perplexed as you can see that it's back at the viewpoint of the security console presumably being accessed by Chief. Because of that framing, I believe it is an in-universe ONI "CG" reconstruction of a significant battle between the Covenant and the UNSC, perhaps something that they didn't have direct footage of due to lost recordings, as was the case for many of the fallen colony worlds.
They are travelling toward and not shooting at each other (could be a limitation of the data, or simply artistic)
The ships seem to be in normal-space, as we can see stars in the background, but they are within a dense field of orbs of some kind. What are they?
I'm unsure what this could be, but it's a cool "tactical view" to have fun with. Judging by the ship sizes and structures(using sloftus' amazing scale charts) it looks like there are 4 UNSC Paris-Class Heavy Frigates (like the Forward Unto Dawn), and 3 UNSC Marathon or Halcyon-Class Light Cruisers (like Pillar of Autumn, but the third one on the bottom appears almost out of nowhere) up against 3 Covenant CAS-Class Assault Carriers (like Regret's ship over New Mombasa in Halo 2, Solemn Penance). Fun stuff! This may be the Battle of Reach, but it would be even cooler if this is a depiction from Sigma Octanis IV.
--
Thel inside a structure that looks to be human in design, he ignites his sword. Why is he here? Where is here? To me it looks like he's searching for something, but it's too short to tell for sure.
The next image seen seems to be of Thel with at least 2 other Elites being shot at by what looks like a blamite round, possibly from a Needler or Needle Rifle. The one on the right carrying a Forerunner artifact of some kind. What could this be? Where is this, and what kind of architecture is the building in the background? Are they being shot at because of the artifact, whatever it is? I'm only using the yellow armour to identify this as Thel, but it could be a completely different Elite.
There is a Prophet shown worshipping or reaching up toward something, maybe the Arbiter's helmet in a housing casket. But which Prophet is this? Though it's not a rock-solid indicator, based on the colour of his robes (Truth wore red, Regret wore purple, Mercy wore grey), and his younger looking age, you might say it is Regret.
The Prophet is putting the helmet on to an Arbiter as he kneels before him. It seems (though it isn't too clear) this would be in the Mausoleum of the Arbiter.
Regret was not physically present when Thel became Arbiter, he was staging a haphazard assault on Earth with a small fleet in search of a Forerunner artifact, presumably the Portal, with no idea Earth being humanity's homeworld. He was only present for Thel's trial via hologram during this time, and maybe wasn't even aware that Truth and Mercy made Thel Arbiter soon after.
High ranking Prophets in the Covenant don't generally walk around - ever. They waltz around in goofy hover chairs, though some have instead used a device called a "gravity belt" - like the minor Prophet of Stewardship of Thel's Fleet of Particular Justice. Prophets are now a pretty lazy and weak race due to centuries of sedentary lifestyle on High Charity and medical experiments to extend their lifespan. That's not to say that any of them are unable to walk, it's just something we really don't see. Though, if any of the Hierarchs were to wear a gravity belt rather than a gravity chair, it might be Regret.
The Prophet's headpiece is not the same as the one Regret would normally wear from being a Hierarch - at least in 2552 when Thel became Arbiter. This one is green and not very ornate at all. The same goes for the hunch-piece.
There is only one Prophet shown here. Both Truth and Mercy were present when Thel became Arbiter, and presumably all three Hierarchs would typically be present during this "ceremony".
Thel put his helmet on before the other pieces of armor in Halo 2, and he did not bow before them.
So... Is this Arbiter even Thel? I mean, the Elite may have the same eye-colour, but the above seems to suggest it is not Thel... Furthermore, is this even Regret?
Could it be that this is a different Arbiter, with a different Prophet? Unless Thel and Regret were working "behind the scenes" together at some point, which I doubt. Perhaps Regret had appointed another Arbiter himself (like Ripa 'Moramee from Halo Wars?)... It would partially explain the above, and perhaps why Regret isn't wearing the same crown, but. I think it might be more likely that this is not Regret, and not the same Arbiter as Thel. I just can't visualize a significant circumstance where/when this scene would take place. Maybe a depiction of the first Arbiter of the Covenant? I'd like for it to be something more sinister. Time will tell.
This looks like the destruction of Alpha Halo over the gas giant Threshold. Interestingly, the times we've seen this depicted it was shown from the other side of the ring. This is probably more an artistic liberty, but in all the depictions we've seen before of this event, the initial blue shockwave traveled parallel and touching the ring in the original explosion, not perpendicular to it like it does here. That bugs me just a little bit.
Presumably on High Charity (based on the fog, "street lights" and building architecture being similar), there is a small Covenant craft of unknown type intercepting a Phantom. It is difficult to see in the video, but to me it sort of looks like this Phantom is more green. What do you think? Arbiter's Separatist Covenant faction during the Great Schism had coloured their Phantoms green, and you see this in Halo 3. Pretty hard to tell, either way, especially as some purple Phantoms' are quite darkly tinted, and even the Halo 3 and 4 variants have a slight pearlescent green tinge. The design of the craft does remind me a bit of the Destroyer-class Covenant warships seen in Halo Wars and Halo Legends, though obviously this is a just a small fighter or transport. Are these two craft allied? It's hard to draw any conclusions without knowing for sure if the Phantom is green, whether the new craft has weapons, or even with this very short clip.
This is a wider shot of the above location, what seems to be High Charity - notice the leg of the Forerunner Keyship in the top right and the illuminated "street" lines.
There is a lone unknown Elite fighting a number of Grunts, with no other Covenant race in sight. Presumably, this is all a depiction of the same event during the Great Schism, but it could also be one of the Grunt Rebellions, or a previous rebel faction of Elites. It would be cool to see another perspective on the events of the Great Schism, especially in the early days leading up to the "Order 66" of the Elites.
Some have said this might be Janjur Qom - the Prophet homeworld - the history and fate of which we know very little in detail. The Prophet's records of their home planet pre-Covenant (
and post Halo firing, because there's an even deeper history going back far enough to ancient human times
) is scarce and scattered. But before that potential fate, we do have a very basic framework for what happened on-planet from Truth's perspective (back then known as Fortitude) in the book Contact Harvest, though it is difficult to take the Covenant Prophets for their word, based on their reputation. Here is a bit of info on that:
For context:
Long ago, a Keyship arrived on Janjur Qom. The Keyships were one of the types used to index and then reseed the galaxy after the firing of the Halo Array, also used as great power-sources and "keys" to activate Portals like the one under Voi that lead to the Ark. Most of the Keyships did not remain on their reseeded planet, yet for some reason, one remained on Janjur Qom. It was called the Dreadnought. It has been suggested that this one had crashed, based on a tidbit of info in the Halo Encyclopedia book.
Halo Legends, Origins I:
From Halo Origins, the last shot in the gif with the blue-glowing structure under a Keyship very briefly shows San 'Shyuum exiting, presumably this is Cortana's depiction of Janjur Qom at the point of the reseed. Click for YouTube.
From Contact Harvest, page 262:
There were a little more than twenty million SanShyuum in the Covenant. Not a very large number compared to the faiths billions of adherents. But it was significantly more than the thousand or so individuals who had fled the SanShyuums distant homeworld long ago.
Fortitudes ancestors had broken with the rest of their kind over the same issue that would eventually pit them against the Sangheili: whether or not to desecrate Forerunner objects to realize their full potential. In the internal, SanShyuum version of this debate, the Dreadnought had become a key symbol for both sidesan object the majority Stoics would not enter and the minority Reformers were desperate to explore. At the climax of the fratricidal conflict, the most zealous Reformers breached the Dreadnought and barricaded themselves inside. While the Stoics debated what to do (they couldnt very well destroy the object they so revered), the Reformers activated the vessel and took flighttaking a chunk of the SanShyuum homeworld with it.
At first the Reformers were ecstatic. They had survived, and also escaped with the conflicts greatest prize. They sped out of their home system, laughing at the Stoics bitter signalsclaims that the Gods would surely damn them for their theft. But then the Reformers counted up their numbers and realized to their horror that they might indeed be doomed.
The problem was a limited pool of genes. With only a thousand individuals in their population, inbreeding would soon become a serious problem. The crisis was compounded by the fact that SanShyuum pregnancies were, even under ideal conditions, rare. Females were generally fertile, but only in short cycles that came few and far between. For these first Prophets aboard the Dreadnought, reproduction quickly became a carefully managed affair.
Some time later, with their Keyship and piece of Janjur Qom in tow, the San 'Shyuum Reformers made their first encounter with the Sangheili which, after a very long and costly war between the two species, resulted in an agreement to avoid assured mutual destruction, called the Writ of Union. The Prophets would act as religious leaders, and the Elites their protectors: The Covenant was born. It is very interesting to note that the San' Shyuum who became the leaders in the Covenant were the Reformers, the less religiously devout ones, much more interested in science and technological advancements than their Stoic rivals. Later, they would go on to build High Charity, decommissioning the Keyship, and placing it as the centerpiece.
Looking at the above image again, there are (what looks like) 3 Elites bowing before 3 Prophets on a Forerunner platform, with a Forerunner Keyship in the background. So, considering the above excerpt from Contact Harvest, why then are there Elites shown present here? If they indeed are Elites, then I doubt this would be Janjur Qom, unless there was a faction that returned to this world. Maybe that image is a depiction of the forming of the Covenant on Sanghelios? The three robed Prophets perhaps being the first Hierarchs.
"So full of hate were our eyes
That none of us could see
Our war would yield countless dead
But never victory.
So let us cast arms aside
And like discard our wrath.
Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
Whilst we find The Path." -The opening passage of the Writ of Union
They are standing upright, with a much less exaggerated trademark neck hump, something we haven't really seen before.
They look like they are wearing combat harnesses, rather than robes like we usually see Prophets wear. What is the source or purpose of the light emanating from within them?
It looks like they are standing beneath a Forerunner Keyship, with one of the legs visible at the top, could this be Janjur Qom?
What is the purple thing in the foreground that the Prophet in the centre is touching?
The Prophet on the right has some sort of headpiece/crown adornment. Why is he the only one smiling?
The Prophet on the left has a polearm that is somewhat reminiscent of the Covenant Honour Guards', but the top part looks a lot more like the back/hunch-piece that the Hierarchs wear on their hover chairs.
They don't have beards, therefore they are less cool than typical Prophets, despite their armours.
It may again be Sanghelios and these are the same 3 Prophets from the other image seen above in this post, and these are the same 3 Prophets, but it's hard to say for sure.
I'm thinking this could have been from a previous point in time on Janjur Qom, during the "San 'Shyuum Schism", and that these some of the leaders of the Reformers.
It seems we are going to get a closer look at these events in the Halo 2 Terminals, which to me is very exciting, as it is shrouded in mystery. And it seems Broken Circle will also delve deeper into all of this, as it supposedly deals with the events surrounding the formation of the Covenant:
Witness an untold chapter in Halo lore as John Shirley's Halo: Broken Circle takes us to the dawn of the Covenant and the fateful first bargain between the Prophets and the Elites [
perhaps depicted a few images above?
]. Broken Circle will explore an Elite splinter group rebelling against the Covenant in its earliest days, a brave Prophet caught in the machinations of the new Covenant leadership [
lol... Mercy?
], and the root of the betrayal that would ultimately shatter the Covenant [
Truth's betrayal of the Elites? Was there more to that than we know?
] during events seen in the blockbuster Xbox game Halo 2.
What looks like a Ranger-class SpecOps Elite. In the video you can see a blue light emanating from his chest as he runs to jump into a large pit. If this is Thel, then it would be before 2535, but I'm not convinced it is. Maybe something to do with Rtas 'Vadum?
Same deal with this image briefly flashed for a couple frames at the end. I wonder if that helmet was recording? Who knows where or when this is...
--
"I have had many names in this long war. The humans knew me as: Destroyer. To the Covenant, I was: Supreme Commander. The Prophets named me: Arbiter. And your Master Chief calls me: Friend. How well do you know your friend, human? And what will you call me when you learn the truth of what I have done?" -Thel 'Vadam/ee, the Arbiter
Throughout the teaser, Arbiter is speaking over top much like he does in the MCC teaser. This new teaser seems to be a collection of snippets from the various terminals that we will see in Halo 2 Anniversary, each perhaps framed as a series of reports from Agent Locke being accessed by Chief concerning the history of the Arbiter and perhaps other events, too. The Arbiter's monologue, I think, is not from any of the Terminals, and makes me wonder if he is speaking directly to Agent Locke again about his own history, perhaps even at the same point in time as the MCC teaser. If so - how are Chief and Locke "friends"? When did they meet? And if Locke had already previously prepared a comprehensive target profile about Thel years before, why then does Thel question what Locke will think of when he learns "the truth of what he has done"? Surely Locke would already know much about his history leading up to the report's release, presumably ~2552... Other than being a general badass warlord of the Covenant and eventually commanding one of the largest fleets from 2535, no doubt directly responsibly for the death of countless people and glassing a number of planets before wising up to the Prophet's treachery and helping lead the humans to victory and executing Truth right through the back with his sword, what could be worse? All this assuming his his monologue is taking place in the "current" year in Halo-verse, some time in 2558/9ish. Some time between 2552 and 2559, Arbiter did something even darker than all that? If he isn't speaking with Locke, then forget all that
I don't have much more to add and I already clipped out a bunch of stuff that got a little too off topic, but I am working on finishing up a post that talks a little bit more about Prophets, so it should be a decent followup to this. All in all, a very fun and dense trailer. I can't wait to see how this unfolds in-game and attempt to piece it all together.
I was really busy on the weekend and completely missed this Terminal Trailer. Trying to stay out of this thread until I read through the latest Kilo-Five book.
I would guess that Chief accessing the terminal is not cannon. It wasn't in Halo: Anniversary. Logging in to the terminals probably changes if you find a terminal while playing as Thel (just a way to make the player feel he/she is accessing something). Whole TMCC could be Locke accessing some records with Thel and terminals would just jump out from the records to "present time" or something like that.
Edit: Jump to "present time" where Thel tells Agent Locke about his past.
Excellent post, Mr. Green. One possibility you missed at the very beginning is that it's not Chief accessing the file, but somebody else leveraging his (undoubtedly ridiculously high) security clearance.
Also, thanks for posting that scale comparison, can't get enough of that sort of stuff.
In one of Mr Greens posts I believe, it brought up Halseys journals saying that current smart AIs weren't flexible enough to interface directly with a spartans brain, which is why she created Cortana out of enhanced versions of her own brain to get by this limitation. BB
was a researcher who committed suicide and donated his brain, so are we to believe some random blokes brain had the same flexibility as the Halsey-super-brains, since BB can also interface with spartans? And also, aren't other Spartan IIs given AIs, so why does her journal say Cortana was unique in that? Did they just eventually find ways to make lesser brain based AIs work with spartans, after Cortanas success? But was she even the first? Is that just a Kilo-5 plot error?
Also, BB lied to Halsey about being a theoretical fourth generation smart AI built by another AI rather than a scanned brain, so why does it say elsewhere that he really is a fourth generation? Both wikis say it, but then they also (I think mistakenly?) call deep winter a fifth generation AI
Speaking of which, is Deep Winter really a fifth generation AI, or a dumb one, to have survived so long? They never really explain the generation differences, do they...If BB may or may not have been this theoretical fourth gen AI, how could one that came before him be a fifth gen?
In one of Mr Greens posts I believe, it brought up Halseys journals saying that current smart AIs weren't flexible enough to interface directly with a spartans brain, which is why she created Cortana out of enhanced versions of her own brain to get by this limitation. BB
was a researcher who committed suicide and donated his brain, so are we to believe some random blokes brain had the same flexibility as the Halsey-super-brains, since BB can also interface with spartans? And also, aren't other Spartan IIs given AIs, so why does her journal say Cortana was unique in that? Did they just eventually find ways to make lesser brain based AIs work with spartans, after Cortanas success? But was she even the first? Is that just a Kilo-5 plot error?
My first instinct is to say that it's just Karin Traviss not giving a rat's ass about canon (wouldn't be the first time) but it's probably just a case of Technology Marches on in-universe. They improved the augmentation procedure enough that it can work in adults now; making a superior AI interface that allows for a broader ranger of AIs to interface with Spartans isn't infeasible.
And as far as I know, none of the other Spartans had AIs. Chief got his not long before the first game, and he was the only one on his team to get one.
And as far as I know, none of the other Spartans had AIs. Chief got his not long before the first game, and he was the only one on his team to get one.
Ah. I guess I just assumed they would, as Halseys plan for "completed" spartans involved them getting AIs.
Come to think of it, if John is one of two spartans who got one, his successfulness is in part due to his inbuilt cheat codes.
Wouldn't John getting BB be awesome though? I always imagined BBs voice to be like Jarvis from Iron man, same dry wit. I guess if BB follows a 7 year life though, he doesn't have much left, if he's still around by Halo 5.
So what is the deal with Deep Winter getting double the standard AI life though? Is it truly fifth gen? Then why are AIs built after it third or theoretically fourth gen?
Not sure if it's been posted before or if it's even relevent, but Jennifer Hale is listed as Sara Palmer in Halo 5 on both her IMDB profile and Halo 5's
My first instinct is to say that it's just Karin Traviss not giving a rat's ass about canon (wouldn't be the first time) but it's probably just a case of Technology Marches on in-universe. They improved the augmentation procedure enough that it can work in adults now; making a superior AI interface that allows for a broader ranger of AIs to interface with Spartans isn't infeasible.
And as far as I know, none of the other Spartans had AIs. Chief got his not long before the first game, and he was the only one on his team to get one.
Or, more simply, it didn't have to be Halsey's brain (I think at one point the Parangosky points out that it's just one more example of Halsey's megalomania.) Maybe the researcher wasn't as brilliant as Halsey but he clearly had smarts, and I think the whole issue was merely needing a human brain as a templatethe intelligence wasn't the sticking point.
Love this thread and absolutely love Halo lore and the expanded universe/fiction.
Currently playing Divinity: Original Sin and cannot help but wonder how incredible a Halo tactics game in that same vein would be. I think the current Halo universe could support it with the weapon, environment, faction/character, and gameplay sandbox that is already in place. There might be a need to do some timeline jumping to keep things fresh and interesting while providing hours upon hours of gameplay and lore trekking across beautiful and mysterious landscapes on actual Halos/Forerunner Constructs and Installations.
Even though I enjoyed the Halo Wars game I think for lore purposes and whatnot the sandbox is more fit for a tactics game rather than a resource management/rts game.
Disclaimer: I fully respect the casual/competitive/pro multiplayer game that those players want and love. I am also not suggesting any kind of milking of the franchise but rather another quailty way to experience the ever-growing story(ies) of the rich Halo universe.
Or, more simply, it didn't have to be Halsey's brain (I think at one point the Parangosky points out that it's just one more example of Halsey's megalomania.) Maybe the researcher wasn't as brilliant as Halsey but he clearly had smarts, and I think the whole issue was merely needing a human brain as a template—the intelligence wasn't the sticking point.
As far as I know, all smart AI are developed by copying a human brain, but usually the original person has to be dead first. Halsey circumvented that by cloning herself, and then compounded it by altering the clone's brains to get the results she wanted.
Love this thread and absolutely love Halo lore and the expanded universe/fiction.
Currently playing Divinity: Original Sin and cannot help but wonder how incredible a Halo tactics game in that same vein would be. I think the current Halo universe could support it with the weapon, environment, faction/character, and gameplay sandbox that is already in place. There might be a need to do some timeline jumping to keep things fresh and interesting while providing hours upon hours of gameplay and lore trekking across beautiful and mysterious landscapes on actual Halos/Forerunner Constructs and Installations.
Even though I enjoyed the Halo Wars game I think for lore purposes and whatnot the sandbox is more fit for a tactics game rather than a resource management/rts game.
Disclaimer: I fully respect the casual/competitive/pro multiplayer game that those players want and love. I am also not suggesting any kind of milking of the franchise but rather another quailty way to experience the ever-growing story(ies) of the rich Halo universe.
Not sure if it's been posted before or if it's even relevent, but Jennifer Hale is listed as Sara Palmer in Halo 5 on both her IMDB profile and Halo 5's
Ugh great. She's the least interesting character in the entire haloverse. I guess we'll get to hear lots more dialog about egg heads and various other military stereotypical phrases from her in Halo 5, without actually ever doing any character building...
Frankie if you're listening, do us a favor and open Halo 5 with Palmer biting the dust from a needle supercombine. It'll be just like Sgt Johnson's farewell, except that nobody will care.
Maybe that image depicts the aftermath and debris field of either Reach or Sigma Octanus IV - I believe refit stations were used as "shields" against plasma barrages in both battles.
More on the subject of Halsey's creation of Cortana:
I don't think Halsey's statement from my previous post about other AI candidates not being "intellectually agile" enough was meant to suggest that another Smart AI wasn't able to interface directly with a Spartan II, rather, at least from Halsey's point of view, it was about giving the "best" Spartan the "best" chance of success - and survival - by giving the "best" AI she could build at the time.
Success at what?
On Reach, leading up to the events of Halo CE, the recommissioned Pillar of Autumn [
chosen for its old-school "unbreakable" design
], newly commanded by Captain Keyes [
chosen for his secrecy and brilliant tactical maneuvers, like the "Keyes Loop"
], and the remaining Spartan II's, lead by Master Chief+Cortana [
chosen for his good "luck"
] were to be assembled together with MJOLNIR to carry out ONI's Operation: RED FLAG.
What was Operation: RED FLAG?
A desperate, "last-ditch" point of culmination for all of Halsey's work and research. In her words, a suicide mission.
--
A little bit of expanded info following some of the final days of Operation: RED FLAG for those unaware. I hope people don't mind some more pics, and (large) text excerpts...
Spoilers ahead!
Some context: At this point in time, ONI and the UNSC had been unable to completely decipher the Covenant's language and computer systems, despite their best efforts and decades of research. The same was even more true about the (then of unknown origin) Forerunner language. Cortana's creation wasn't just Halsey wanting to make a great AI for enhancing combat capability of the Spartan IIs, she was made with a more specialized skill-set in mind: a "code breaker".
From The Fall of Reach, note:
I only have the original release, so some things may have been changed slightly since then. There are still some time and date discrepancies across the fiction, but they are minor in my opinion. The point is to get an idea of this Operation RED FLAG, and how some of the final events leading up to Halo CE had affected it
:
0800 Hours, August 27, 2552 (Military Calendar) /
Epsilon Eridani System, FLEETCOM Military Complex, planet Reach
Assembled here tonight, she said, are all surviving Spartans save three, who are otherwise engaged on fields of combat too distant to be easily recalled. In the last decade of combat there have only been three KIAs and one Spartan too wounded to continue active duty. You are to be commended for having the best operational record of any unit in the fleet. She paused to look at them. It is very good to see you all again.
...
Dr. Halsey removed her glasses. This is where you come in. Your mission will involve these so-called Prophets, and will be executed in four phases.
Phase one. You will engage the Covenant and sufficiently disable, but not destroy, one of their ships. She turned to face Captain Keyes. I leave that in the capable hands of Captain Keyes and his newly refitted ship, the Pillar of Autumn.
Captain Keyes acknowledged her compliment with a curt nod. He tapped the stem of his pipe on his lips thoughtfully.
The Master Chief was unaware of any Covenant ship ever being captured. He had read the reports of Captain Keyes actions at Sigma Octanus IV... and considered the odds of actually capturing a Covenant vessel. Even for a Spartan, it would be a difficult mission.
Phase two, Dr. Halsey said. Spartans will board the disabled Covenant ship - neutralize the crew, and crack their navigation database. We will do precisely what they have been trying to do to us: find the location of their home world.
The Master Chief raised his hand.
Yes, Master Chief?
Maam. We will be given mission specialist personnel to access the Covenant computers?
In a manner of speaking, she said, and looked away. I will come to that point in a moment. Let me assure you, however, that these specialists will cause you no serious complications during this phase. In fact, they will prove rather useful in combat. Shortly, you shall have a demonstration.
Like Captain Keyes statement that winning wasnt everything... Dr. Halseys reply was another puzzle. How would such computer specialists not be a liability to the Spartans in combat? Even if they could fight, it was unlikely theyd be anything but weak links in combat. If they couldnt fight, the Spartans would be forced to baby-sit a vulnerable package in a hot combat zone.
Phase three, Dr. Halsey said, will consist of taking the captured Covenant ship to their homeworld.
Several questions immediately formed in the Master Chiefs mind. Who would pilot the alien ship? Had any one ever deciphered the Covenant control systems? It seemed unlikely since the UNSC had never captured one of their ships before. Were there Covenant recognition signals that had to be sent when entering their space? Or would they just steal their way in-system?
When a plan had so many missing pieces of data, the Spartans had been trained to stop and reconsider its effectiveness. Unanswered questions led to complicationssnags. And snags led to injuries, death, and failed missions. Simple was better.
He held his questions, though. Dr. Halsey surely would have planned for these eventualities.
Phase four, she continued, will be to infiltrate and capture the Covenant leadership and return with them to UNSC-controlled space.
The Master Chief shifted uneasily. There was no intel or reconnaissance of Covenant-held space. What did a Covenant leadera Propheteven look like?
Chief Mendez had told him to trust Dr. Halsey. The Master Chief decided to hear all the details before he asked any further questions. To do so might undermine her authority. And thats the last thing he needed the other Spartans to see.
And yet, there was one thing hehad to clarify. The Master Chief raised his hand again.
She nodded toward him.
Dr. Halsey, he said, you did say capture the Covenant leadersnot eliminate them?
Correct, she replied. Our profile of Covenant society indicates that if you were to kill one of their leader caste, this war could actually escalate. Your orders are to preserve any captured Covenant leaders at all costs. You will bring them back to UNSC headquarters, where we will then use them to broker a truce, possibly even negotiate a peace treaty with the Covenant.
Peace? The Master Chief considered the unfamiliar word. Was that what Captain Keyes had meant? The alternative to winning wasnt necessarily losing. If you chose not to play a game, then there could be neither winning nor losing.
Dr. Halsey took a deep breath and slowly exhaled. Some of you already suspect this, but I shall state it anyway for emphasis. It is my opinion, and that of many others, that the war is not going well... despite our recent victories. What is not widely known is how badly it is going for us. ONI predicts that we have months, perhaps as much as a standard year, before the Covenant locates and destroys our remaining Inner Colonies... and then moves against Earth.
The Master Chief had heard the rumorsand promptly dismissed thembut to hear the words from someone he trusted chilled him to the core.
Your mission will prevent this, Dr. Halsey said. She stopped and frowned, lowered her head, then finally looked up at them again. This op is considered extremely high risk. There are unknown elements involved and we simply do not have the time to gather the required intelligence. I have persuaded FLEETCOM not to order you on this mission. Admiral Stanforth is asking for volunteers.
The Master Chief understood. Dr. Halsey was unsure if she would be spending their lives or wasting them on this mission.
He stood without hesitationand as he did so, the rest of the Spartans stood as well.
Good, she said. She paused and blinked several times. Very good. Thank you.
She stepped away from the podium. We will meet with you individually within a few days to continue your briefing. I will show you how you will get our computer experts on board the Covenant vessel... and I will show you the one thing that will let you get through this mission in one piece: MJOLNIR.
Two days later, Master Chief underwent a new surgical procedure to create the "port" in his neck for his interface with Cortana, who was installed in the new MJOLNIR Mk V and tested by Master Chief for the first time.
Another excerpt post-surgery from The Fall of Reach, where Halsey first introduces Chief to MJOLNIR Mk V and Cortana:
This is the real MJOLNIR, Dr. Halsey whispered to him. What you have been using was only a fraction of what the armor should be. This She turned to the Master Chief. is everything I had always dreamed it could be. Please put the suit on.
...
Weve made hundreds of minor technical improvements, she said. Ill have the specifications sent to you later. Two of those changes, however, are rather serious modifications to the system. It may take... some getting used to.
...
First, she told him, we have replicated, and I might add, improved upon the energy shield the Covenant Jackals have been using against us to great effect.
...
[Second]: Your armor will carry Cortana. The MJOLNIR system has the nearly the same capacity as a ship-borne AI system. Cortana will interface between you and the suit and provide tactical and strategic information for you in the field. ... Cortana has been programmed with every ONI computer insurgency routine, Dr. Halsey told him. And she has a talent for modifying them on the fly. She has our best Covenant-language-translation software as well. Her primary purpose is to infiltrate their computer and communications systems. She will intercept and decode point-to-point Covenant transmissions and give you updated intelligence in the field.
Intel support in an operation where there had been no reconnaissance. The Master Chief liked that. It would level the playing field significantly.
Note: might not actually be the same point in time considering Chief's armour, but it still shows Halsey giving Cortana to Chief so I thought it would be cool to add. That said, 343i have treated the legacy MJOLNIR armour with incredible inconsistency so far, so who knows
Suffice to say, despite certain UNSC parties attempting to sabotage the test by making it near impossible for Master Chief under normal circumstances, the test had been an overwhelming success - with no casualties, even though he was given authority to make lethal shots.
Unfortunately, a day later, August 30, the Covenant's began an unexpected all-out assault on Reach [
a large portion of this fleet largely commanded by Thel 'Vadamee, who later became the Arbiter. Though, the Covenant had been secretly carrying out operations on-planet for a long while before the full-scale attack on this day.
] prevented this Operation: RED FLAG from ever being carried out, as the Spartan IIs were largely redirected to other places around Reach - the majority being killed in action during the conflict, or MIA if you prefer Master Chief and Linda-058 (near-death) were the only two who made it aboard the Pillar of Autumn.
Luckily, another aspect to the project had been coming to a head, and Halsey had temporarily split off Cortana's code-breaking routine into a working fragment, like a "Cortana-lite". She used this code-breaker fragment of Cortana, along with the data from Dr. Lazslo Sorvad's "Latchkey Discovery" found in Visegrád [
the dead guy you turn over in Halo Reach before the Elite Zealots attack you
], to decrypt and extract vital information from a crashed Forerunner artifact/ship buried deep underneath the Babd Catha ice shelf accessed miles below ONI SWORD Base.
The ship/artifact as seen in Halo Reach, Halsey's secret ONI lab in the lower-left:
The massive "core" of the Forerunner ship/artifact being siphoned by Halsey on the left, and nearby her small lab suspended to the right:
Inside Halsey's lab, Cortana's code-breaking fragment decrypts the Forerunner information:
The fragment was then brought by the remaining members of Noble Team to the Pillar of Autumn, and was then "re-uploaded" with the rest of Cortana.
Cortana used this new "firmware upgrade" to decipher the markings from Halsey's sketch of the Sigma Octanus IV Forerunner Artifact into a star chart, rather than what was thought to be a language, which revealed to her the location of Installation 04, which she used to make a "blind jump" from Reach [
secretly against the Cole Protocol which stated a ship must make a randomized jump in a direction away from Earth in the event of an attack, as Cortana had no difficulty subverting protocols
].
Halsey's sketch of the artifact from Sigma Octanus IV, recovered from the Côte d'Azur Museum of Natural History:
A bit off topic but is it true that the Spartan IV's do not have a rank structure? I was in a discussion with someone and they referenced the Initiation comics as Sarah Palmers title of Commander is just that a "title" not rank.
A bit off topic but is it true that the Spartan IV's do not have a rank structure? I was in a discussion with someone and they referenced the Initiation comics as Sarah Palmers title of Commander is just that a "title" not rank.
Between that, and the Spartans being their own branch, I have YET to see it referenced outside of Initiation. Someone said that Palmer's rank of Commander is just a title and not her rank, but that makes no sense to me. Idk, I don't get it. I still like having Spartans being Navy/ONI assets, so there's a bit of a power struggle as to how Spartans are used. In fact, just in typing this, how was Palmer ordered by Osman to kill Halsey when she doesn't report to her? (Musa is likely the head of Spartan branch) The whole idea, while interesting, is a mess.
A bit off topic but is it true that the Spartan IV's do not have a rank structure? I was in a discussion with someone and they referenced the Initiation comics as Sarah Palmers title of Commander is just that a "title" not rank.
A bit off topic but is it true that the Spartan IV's do not have a rank structure? I was in a discussion with someone and they referenced the Initiation comics as Sarah Palmers title of Commander is just that a "title" not rank.
Between that, and the Spartans being their own branch, I have YET to see it referenced outside of Initiation. Someone said that Palmer's rank of Commander is just a title and not her rank, but that makes no sense to me. Idk, I don't get it.
I've been kind of disappointed with what I've read of Escalation thus far, which is a shame because it seems to be setting up some very cool stuff, especially the Spirit of Fire.
Thank you! I hope to keep them coming. Considering what's scheduled over the next few months, that should be pretty easy =D
--
I watched a bit of the non-gameplay parts from the RTX panel again, and I realized I missed something from one of the slides. I didn't see them posted in here, so I thought I'd share a bit:
Rtas "Half-Jaw" 'Vadumee, SpecOps Commander:
"We are the arm of the Prophets, Arbiter, and you are the blade. Be silent and swift, and we shall quell this heresy without incident."
High Prophet of Mercy:
"The tasks you must undertake as the Arbiter are perilous, suicidal! You will die, as every Arbiter has before you! The Council will have their corpse."
Tartarus, Chieftain of the Brutes:
"No, Arbiter! The Great Journey has begun, and the Brutes, not the Elites, shall be the Prophets' escort!"
Not super duper lore heavy, but I thought it was interesting getting another small glimpse at the Blur versions of some Halo 2 characters and designs. Apologies for such a small size, the images were clipped from 343i's YouTube video, which was 720p, and also tinted an awful orange so I cleaned that up. So many good cutscenes and environments in that game, can't wait...
Thank you! I hope to keep them coming. Considering what's scheduled over the next few months, that should be pretty easy =D
--
I watched a bit of the non-gameplay parts from the RTX panel again, and I realized I missed something from one of the slides. I didn't see them posted in here, so I thought I'd share a bit:
Rtas "Half-Jaw" 'Vadumee, SpecOps Commander:
"We are the arm of the Prophets, Arbiter, and you are the blade. Be silent and swift, and we shall quell this heresy without incident."
High Prophet of Mercy:
"The tasks you must undertake as the Arbiter are perilous, suicidal! You will die, as every Arbiter has before you! The Council will have their corpse."
Tartarus, Chieftain of the Brutes:
"No, Arbiter! The Great Journey has begun, and the Brutes, not the Elites, shall be the Prophets' escort!"
Not super duper lore heavy, but I thought it was interesting getting another small glimpse at the Blur versions of some Halo 2 characters and designs. Apologies for such a small size, the images were clipped from 343i's YouTube video, which was 720p, and also tinted an awful orange so I cleaned that up. So many good cutscenes and environments in that game, can't wait...
I think they're going to have a mixture of dark and light (judging by Thel, anyway) which I'm okay with. Personally, I didn't mind their look in H4 so much, but seeing them properly armored again would be nice.
It's mid-section looks like it could just snap at any moment.
[EDIT] - Oh, and I should mention that I appreciate this thread, and the write-ups that folks like MrGreencastle have contributed to it. I read the first few books, but haven't paid all that much attention to the Halo lore since the trilogy concluded, really. I've read snippets of info about the stuff from the new authors and mostly appreciate the direction 343's trying to take it.
Thank you! I hope to keep them coming. Considering what's scheduled over the next few months, that should be pretty easy =D
--
I watched a bit of the non-gameplay parts from the RTX panel again, and I realized I missed something from one of the slides. I didn't see them posted in here, so I thought I'd share a bit:
Rtas "Half-Jaw" 'Vadumee, SpecOps Commander:
"We are the arm of the Prophets, Arbiter, and you are the blade. Be silent and swift, and we shall quell this heresy without incident."
High Prophet of Mercy:
"The tasks you must undertake as the Arbiter are perilous, suicidal! You will die, as every Arbiter has before you! The Council will have their corpse."
Tartarus, Chieftain of the Brutes:
"No, Arbiter! The Great Journey has begun, and the Brutes, not the Elites, shall be the Prophets' escort!"
Not super duper lore heavy, but I thought it was interesting getting another small glimpse at the Blur versions of some Halo 2 characters and designs. Apologies for such a small size, the images were clipped from 343i's YouTube video, which was 720p, and also tinted an awful orange so I cleaned that up. So many good cutscenes and environments in that game, can't wait...
Well, they're deliberately exaggerated because they're designed to be recognizable from far above in the RTS view, and you can't have the in-game units be completely different designs than the cinematics. I think one of the developers said that compared to a regular hog in game, the Hogs in Halo Wars jump three or four times as high and as far to make it "seem" correct.
