Syphon Filter
Member
where did they say that? Also does that go for the elite and grunts in Halo 4 too?
Halo Lore Thread
- Thread starter Korten
- Start date
where did they say that? Also does that go for the elite and grunts in Halo 4 too?
Brute never, EVER looked like something that could be confused with the Didact. For one thing, they used to have noses.
And, um, those are outdated. That line from a bulletin was a nonsensical bit of damage control. A redesign is a redesign, simple as that. You will never see these other "breeds again", unless someone in charge of a low-priority tie-in messes up, or makes a game recycling really old assets.
Right here.
It was specifically about Grunts, which is even less plausible than what happened to the other species.
No the grunts and Elites aren't subspecies, they're redesigns, however for jackals:
http://www.halopedia.org/Ibie'sh
http://www.halopedia.org/T'vaoan
Both of which appear in the latest comics.
Also I do think it's the Didact, looks like a Forerunner.
Then they retconned themselves, because they've already established the new Jackals in Halo 4 to be Ibie'sh, another subspecies alongside the T'vaoan. Also in Mortal Dicata, shows Kig-Yar cultures and shows the two species.
Caayn
Member
Good luck, you'll need it. Sorry but I don't have that many good words for 343i, I'll try to keep it normal though.
Humans being the inheritors of the Forerunners was already established in Halo: CE. Rampancy was also already established only didn't actually come forth into the games until Halo 4.
Lots of stuff in Halo can feel "bolded on" without reading the lore behind it.
SpartanN92
Banned
I've missed the Halo-Gaf thread soooo badly!
I'm not saying anyone needs to like 343i, but it would be nice if they kept that part out of the discussion.
I completely lost track of all these apostrophed gibberish names, so I'll just admit defeat before my head explodes, though "skirmishers" were always meant to be separate from the "jackals" and Halo 4's jackals remained "jackals".
But that's surely a badly redesigned Brute. It has the fangs, the same warpaint as ol' Chubby McPubes and a beard (on its face as well).
Halo 4 stuff aside nothing really seemed bolted on except for maybe the Cortana "rampancy" teasing. It was the most nonsensical aspect of the original trilogy's story and it really didn't go anywhere; it only served to add some drama (unless I'm forgetting something). I will say that the plot of Halo 2 and 3 are hard to follow. There's a lot of jumping around from one locale to another with only a quick 1-minute explanation. I often found myself going to the internet to make sense of things. 343 was supposedly going to address that in Halo 4 but by having the plot be entwined with the novels the plot turned out to be confusing just as it's always been.
Havoc2049
Member
Great thread, Korten.
As for the books, the original trilogy was The Fall of Reach, The Flood and First Strike. Nylund wrote Reach and First Strike, with William Deitz as the author of The Flood, but all those books belong together. While Ghosts of Onyx is written by Nylund, it is the prequel to the Kilo-5 trilogy.
There are also two other books, Halo Evolutions: Essential Tales of the Halo Universe and Halo Evolutions: Essential Tales of the Halo Universe Volume II. They are both a collection of short stories set in the Halo universe.
As for the books, the original trilogy was The Fall of Reach, The Flood and First Strike. Nylund wrote Reach and First Strike, with William Deitz as the author of The Flood, but all those books belong together. While Ghosts of Onyx is written by Nylund, it is the prequel to the Kilo-5 trilogy.
There are also two other books, Halo Evolutions: Essential Tales of the Halo Universe and Halo Evolutions: Essential Tales of the Halo Universe Volume II. They are both a collection of short stories set in the Halo universe.
The Brutes elsewhere in the book look like H3-era. They never really comment on it but he's drawn like his nose just got lopped off in the comic.
As for the Jackals, the guys we see Halo 1-3 and the Halo 4 are two different subspecies.
Biggest problem with the handling of lore is how much story now happens outside the primary medium of games. It's why the story of Halo 4 made so very little sense, especially to someone who's only played games CE-3 and Reach before 4.
The story needs to be self contained and explained in the game. As much as people like reading novels or comics, you're talking about a small minority of people compared to the sheer numbers of games players.
The good thing about 343 going forward is, that by overseeing all development now, they can integrate their toys, books, and games as one and promote a unified story. No more crying because Bungie didn't follow some book written decade before that they never really gave permission for/wanted because Microsoft made the decision etc.
I'll say, I haven't really cared much about the story past Halo 3 event. I'm hoping that they spend a lot of time in Halo 5 explaining everything, much, much better. Without the use of hard to find terminals that open outside the game.
The story needs to be self contained and explained in the game. As much as people like reading novels or comics, you're talking about a small minority of people compared to the sheer numbers of games players.
The good thing about 343 going forward is, that by overseeing all development now, they can integrate their toys, books, and games as one and promote a unified story. No more crying because Bungie didn't follow some book written decade before that they never really gave permission for/wanted because Microsoft made the decision etc.
I'll say, I haven't really cared much about the story past Halo 3 event. I'm hoping that they spend a lot of time in Halo 5 explaining everything, much, much better. Without the use of hard to find terminals that open outside the game.
-- Citation needed. (Seriously, I would like to see where this was said, for reference.)
-- That was clearly one of the directions of the story, at one time. I don't know you could possibly interpret what Bias says in Contact Harvest any other way. But I think you are overestimating how much Halo canon was set in stone from game-to-game. Especially when it comes to the novels, which were usually apocrypha as far as Bungie was concerned.
-- Humans and Forerunners are still very closely related post-Forerunner Saga, having been branched off from each other by the Precursors at some very early date.
-- I'm a bit shocked that you don't think the tired old trope of Humans themselves being the Precursor race was worse than the Forerunners being closely related cousins.
-- The crystal ball is showing "Unlikely."
-- Aye, but this isn't an easy thing to do given the different tones, authors, and time periods that this material falls in. Bungie themselves played really fast and loose with canon in ways that are not always immediately obvious if you just play the games and consume nothing else (e.g. the totally different layout of New Mombasa between Halo 2 and Halo 3: ODST).
-- Halo 4 jackals are a phenotype hailing from a different region of their homeworld (Ibie'sh, see Halo 4:The Essential Visual Guide, p. 40).
PachinkoChampBruh
Member
are all the precursors dead?
Unclear at the moment, there may have been some that survived, but the ones we know that did, became the Flood.
Although since the Domain is technically a Precursor (and it proved to still be around as of 2557), it's kind of the last one?
Gordon0Freeman
Member
Wow the Forerunner are some ugly people
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I want more Precursor goodness. I'm hoping so of that Silentium Precursor stuff makes its way to the games somehow. Not that you would actually fight any Silentium-era Precursors, mind you. You wouldn't stand a chance....
BTW, kind of glad to see these Lore threads popping up for games like Elder Scrolls and Halo.
Does this thread need spoiler tags for stuff like this?
Well, the Flood are the Precursors but if you're talking about how the Precursors were, it is possible somewhere else in the universe there's non-Flood type Precursors.
BTW, kind of glad to see these Lore threads popping up for games like Elder Scrolls and Halo.
Eh... I put a spoiler warning at the top of the thread. I think the only stuff that needs to be spoilered is for Issue 5+ of Halo: Escalation.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Okay cool. I wasn't sure since Silentium is still less than a year old.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Yes, I like this thread.
No, as it takes place before Palmer was a commander.
Yes and no. Most of it takes place before Halo 4 and the mission they added when it came to the Xbox One is post halo 4.
No. The events of Spartan Assault take place years earlier, just after the Spartan-IV program got rolling (post-2552). Palmer became a Spartan in 2553. It's not precisely established when the Draethus campaign starts beyond that, but I believe its post-Mortal Dictata so early 2554 or 2555 is where I would peg it.
Isn't it only like 4 months prior? I think that's what 343 said when the game came out but I could be wrong.
Bobby_Sullivan
Neo Member
I used to be a member of a Halo roleplaying forum...so yeah, this thread is dope and accurate lol
nillapuddin
Member
Halo Lore Thread.
Just finished Escalation 5
O_O
Just finished Escalation 5
O_O
Halo Lore Thread.
Just finished Escalation 5
O_O
Mighty fine collection you got there.
-- I don't see anything citing this on the Halo wikis or in-game. I'm a little surprised that its not more explicit, the franchise dudes are pretty obsessive about the timeline
Just read the Wiki plot summaries of Halo 4 and Spartan Ops to remind myself of what in the fuck happened.
Man, not a fan of the way the lore has turned after Bungie's departure. Although interaction with the Forerunners was inevitable, losing the mystery and intrigue behind them, the Halo rings, the Ark, things like that takes away some of the charm that the game's stories have always had. (mainline entries, at least)
Man, not a fan of the way the lore has turned after Bungie's departure. Although interaction with the Forerunners was inevitable, losing the mystery and intrigue behind them, the Halo rings, the Ark, things like that takes away some of the charm that the game's stories have always had. (mainline entries, at least)
-- I don't see anything citing this on the Halo wikis or in-game. I'm a little surprised that its not more explicit, the franchise dudes are pretty obsessive about the timeline
Yeah I tried to look it up and I couldn't find a date. I don't why I thought that it was 4 months. My bad haha
-- You should read the Greg Bear books.
Don't know much about them, what are they on? I might do that this summer.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Wait, is that a physical copy of Spartan Assault?Halo Lore Thread.
Just finished Escalation 5
O_O
Greg Bears books follows the Forerunners leading into the Forerunner-Flood war all the way up to the rings Activation and a little after.
Custom case, I'm assuming.
And speaking of Halo lore, this is my favorite video game related item I own:
Dr. Halsey's journal from the Halo: Reach special editions. This thing is incredible! I had somebody think it was like some ancient artifact that I had recovered or something. The amount of detail, the quality, the whole thing, I love pulling it out and flipping through the pages.
Such a neat thing and I wish more special editions did stuff like this...enough with the fucking statues already.
Dr. Halsey's journal from the Halo: Reach special editions. This thing is incredible! I had somebody think it was like some ancient artifact that I had recovered or something. The amount of detail, the quality, the whole thing, I love pulling it out and flipping through the pages.
Such a neat thing and I wish more special editions did stuff like this...enough with the fucking statues already.
I think they are. They aren't sequels to Ghosts of Onyx, they merely feature some of the same characters, so abandon that precondition.
People complain about the Halsey bashing, but while it's gratuitous in areas I don't find it that bad and I enjoy Traviss' writing style overall.
They're a mix bag, you either like them or hate them. I personally like them but I do understand that their quality is not up to the same as previous books. Although not to say they're badly written, when Travis expands on things like Kig-Yar culture and Venezia, it's great...
It's just when it starts to talk about Halsey you may want to bang your head against the wall and punch every character. But overall it's still worth to read since it does expand on post-war Halo.
That probably depends on your feelings on the character of Dr. Halsey.
If you like her and the way she was portrayed by Nylund, you probably should avoid them.
If you think she's akin to Space Josef Mengele and don't mind the way 343 handled her subplot in Spartan Ops and wouldn't mind seeing her portrayed as an incompetent fool, these books might not seem so bad.
Somebody linked to it. Don't know where it is. It was a major guy at bungie talking about that.
343 clearly had a different idea for where the universe would go than Bungie, even while both the books and games were being made.
According to 343 (the novels). Not necessarily according to Bungie.
Bungie made all this mystery. This great huge story. Things to be explored. Then 343 jumps in and is all like "LET'S ANSWER EVERY SINGLE QUESTION AND LOOSE END POSSIBLE!!!"
It's just that it's boring and expected. Oh, these were this old ancient race. Let's make them aliens.
It's just really lazy thinking with zero creativity. We already have "aliens." Any 8 year old could make that up. Plus, the human idea worked a lot better and more intricately with the rest of the (at least Bungie's) cannon.
Yeah. :/
But if you look back at the Halo 3 terminals... Which are made by Bungie, they retcon themselves. They state that Humanity and Forerunners aren't the same. So really
343i was just building upon what Bungie left them.
"In Halo, the last campaign mission in Halo 3, there is a cutscene in which a rampant 343 Guilty Spark says to John-117; "You are the child of my makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner." This, among other things, has led to many fans to conclude that Humanity and the Forerunner are one and the same. However, the Terminals show that the "The Librarian" was on Earth, discovering early modern humans 100,000 years ago, indexed them, and built a portal to Installation 00 to send them there..."
BuggyDClown
Member
Didn't know there was a graphic novel series. Thinking about making the jump. I love halo.
-- Staten obviously intended Forerunners = Humans. But I would be leery about anyone else claiming anything as they tended to contradict each other (a good example is the canonicity of Nicole-458).
-- Bungie itself didn't necessarily know where the story was going. And were changing things right up until the games went feature complete.
-- You might be shocked at how derivative core Halo concepts are.
Halo Lore Thread.
Just finished Escalation 5
O_O
I like that the Halo 4's collector case is casually put there just to fit the gap.