• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT| HaloGAF Evolved

Status
Not open for further replies.

FyreWulff

Member
I deleted the original film at the time :( Oh well

Hm. I think the only solution at this point would be to put the clip on your Cloud Saves and have someone with a capture card that you trust recover your tag and save it off for you.

edit: someone got their Campaign in my Firefight thursday challenges!
 

Krispy

Member

0iwCL.png


borat_1007640c.jpg
 
Indeed, I also enjoyed BS Angel's story about balls.

Which one? Seriously the weekly update seems to be about male genitalia rather than Halo. Updates are ok but they would be brilliant if 343 was a porn studio.

Which might explain the lack of Halo 4 codpeice. Maybe the weekly updates have been really informative and Halo 4 is just going to be a massive Hot coffee minigame in space?



Lol thats the weirdest video ever, why is there a guy doing weights in the background? Why is his sister sitting next to him in just a bra and a weird sheet? What is going on?
 
I have to say, between that update by Frankie and the fixes being implemented in Reach, I'm really getting hyped for Halo 4. When I play Reach, I feel that Bungie took a "screw it, this is our last halo, let's just get this done" approach with certain elements, and then didn't make any changes even with the fanbase pleading for them. Then 343 stepped in, and Reach is leagues ahead of what it was in August (I believe that's when the switch happened). They're actually listening to us, something a lot of devs just don't do anymore. I really respect that.
Couldn't disagree more. There are maybe two or three things 343 Industries has done with Reach that I like, and all of them were fixing mistakes they introduced:

-Fixing the commendation freezing they introduced by breaking the credit cap

-Reintroducing a DLC list after removing it

-Making the DLC list not require the AMP after imposing that ridiculous restriction

They're learning...slowly. Now they just have to learn that whiny kids on forums don't know shit about game design. They're always going to complain when the new game is different, and the solution is to make that game better, not shoehorn old mechanics into a system that's not fit for them.
 
They're learning...slowly. Now they just have to learn that whiny kids on forums don't know shit about game design. They're always going to complain when the new game is different, and the solution is to make that game better, not shoehorn old mechanics into a system that's not fit for them.
343's merely doing what they can and acting the role of medic on the battlefield for Reach, not a doctor. It's not about curing it, it's about lessening the pain for it while it dies.
 
Couldn't disagree more. There are maybe two or three things 343 Industries has done with Reach that I like, and all of them were fixing mistakes they introduced:

-Fixing the commendation freezing they introduced by breaking the credit cap

-Reintroducing a DLC list after removing it

-Making the DLC list not require the AMP after imposing that ridiculous restriction

They're learning...slowly. Now they just have to learn that whiny kids on forums don't know shit about game design. They're always going to complain when the new game is different, and the solution is to make that game better, not shoehorn old mechanics into a system that's not fit for them.

And you're above the whiny ass kids, right? You know shit about game design, right? We are all in the same boat as fans. People know what is fun for them and what isn't. That is enough to warrant any post wanting change. Don't you see that games are made for everyone and not any particular subset of the fanbase?

Sure people can word their gripes better than others but their opinions are equal. I don't think any change in any Halo game has been made lightly.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
I agree with him. Bungie has been managing their games perfectly after release for 10 years now and 343 just doesn't have that experience. Bungie always learned from their mistakes and never did the same things wrong in different games. You can't argue with that, it's just the truth.
 
Couldn't disagree more. There are maybe two or three things 343 Industries has done with Reach that I like, and all of them were fixing mistakes they introduced:

-Fixing the commendation freezing they introduced by breaking the credit cap

-Reintroducing a DLC list after removing it

-Making the DLC list not require the AMP after imposing that ridiculous restriction

They're learning...slowly. Now they just have to learn that whiny kids on forums don't know shit about game design. They're always going to complain when the new game is different, and the solution is to make that game better, not shoehorn old mechanics into a system that's not fit for them.

Your post is pretty ironic. Your also assuming that everyone shares your opinion. As far as im concerned 343 have done a fantastic job fixing Reach and the old mechanics have been pretty integral in being a part of that.

The way I see it, game design /= knowing whats fun. Bungie are amazing at game design but with Reach missed what makes the game fun. 343 are fixing that for me.
 
I have to say, between that update by Frankie and the fixes being implemented in Reach, I'm really getting hyped for Halo 4. When I play Reach, I feel that Bungie took a "screw it, this is our last halo, let's just get this done" approach with certain elements, and then didn't make any changes even with the fanbase pleading for them. Then 343 stepped in, and Reach is leagues ahead of what it was in August (I believe that's when the switch happened). They're actually listening to us, something a lot of devs just don't do anymore. I really respect that.
They didn't make any changes because the deal was already in place with 343 to take over and perform their own title update. Bungie has always done a fine job of listening to their fanbase and doing what they can to appease them (to varying degrees of success), and it does them a great disservice to think that they would just abandon a project with a 'just get this done' attitude.
 
They didn't make any changes because the deal was already in place with 343 to take over and perform their own title update. Bungie has always done a fine job of listening to their fanbase and doing what they can to appease them (to varying degrees of success), and it does them a great disservice to think that they would just abandon a project with a 'just get this done' attitude.

I must admit I also got the sense that Reach was just a "get this done" project. I mean why was Sage in charge of multiplayer? What where the Bungie vets working on?

Destiny lol

Am I remembering that Bungie where contracted to get 2 more Halo games done before the split? If so its pretty clear to me at least that ODST and Reach where pretty much done just to appease the contract.
 
Nothing ironic about what I posted, they're using a hacksaw to appease forum kids. I mean literally, some kid posted on halo.xbox.com: "REMOVE BLOOM" and then they just did that, without any sort of counter-balance or adjustment or anything. It's like a parody, and you guys defending it are ridiculous.

If anyone's tried to "just get it done" it's 343 with the TU. I mean they stood there and freely admitted it was mostly handled by one guy in a studio of hundreds. I feel like most of HaloGAF is trolling here.

I've never said Bungie was perfect Doze, but you know, they did a damn good job keeping glitches out of 3 and Reach without title updates. 343 actually introduced a glitch with their Title Update. 'nuff said.
 
Nothing ironic about what I posted, they're using a hacksaw to appease forum kids. I mean literally, some kid posted on halo.xbox.com: "REMOVE BLOOM" and then they just did that, without any sort of counter-balance or adjustment or anything. It's like a parody, and you guys defending it are ridiculous.

Some kid on halo.xbox.com said remove bloom? Who was that guy, he deserves a medal. I cant believe no one else said it. Thank god 343 listened to that one fan. Its a shame that one fan didnt ask for bloom to be replaced with a RoF but hey, it was just one guy they listened to.

If I was you I would be arguing why the changes are bad (like the lack of RoF), rather than coming out with utter nonsense about how just one fan asked for the changes. ;p

If anyone's tried to "just get it done" it's 343 with the TU. I mean they stood there and freely admitted it was mostly handled by one guy in a studio of hundreds. I feel like most of HaloGAF is trolling here.

Agreed, its a sucky situation for them though, they are trying to make an entire video game by the end of the year and also appease the guys who are playing the current game. Just using one guy for the patch seems a bit silly, but im glad the patch exists.

With Bungie, Reach was supposed to be the swan song, it was theyre only main focus. I personally get the feeling that internally they didnt care and they were more focused on Destiny.
 

Striker

Member
I agree with him. Bungie has been managing their games perfectly after release for 10 years now and 343 just doesn't have that experience. Bungie always learned from their mistakes and never did the same things wrong in different games. You can't argue with that, it's just the truth.
Team Snipers was never made an immediate playlist, and was, instead, inserted into the Ranked Slayer playlist in H3 and in Team Slayer in Halo Reach. Despite the fact, of course, it was highly popular in Halo 2 and was expected to return. It did, but not in the fashion you'd expect.

Also, re: playlist management topic: evade. That's all.
 
One guy on halo.xbox.com said remove bloom? Who was that guy, he deserves a medal. I cant believe no one else said it. Thank god 343 listened to that one fan. Its a shame that one fan didnt ask for bloom to be replaced with a RoF but hey, it was just one guy they listened to.

If I was you I would be arguing why the changes are bad (like the lack of RoF), rather than coming out with utter nonsense about how just one fan asked for the changes. ;p
It's hyperbole. I don't see you chiding the other posters on this forum for taking literary license. Oh and do they!


Agreed, its a sucky situation for them though, they are trying to make an entire video game by the end of the year and also appease the guys who are playing the current game. Just using one guy for the patch seems a bit silly, but im glad the patch exists.

With Bungie Reach was supposed to be the swan song, it was theyre only main focus. I personally get the feeling that internally they didnt care and they were more focused on Destiny.

I think it may have been more contractual with Bungie.

I'd rather them not have made a TU than the half-ass way they're implementing it. I mean for God's sake they can't even conduct their own poll properly.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Agreed, its a sucky situation for them though, they are trying to make an entire video game by the end of the year and also appease the guys who are playing the current game. Just using one guy for the patch seems a bit silly, but im glad the patch exists.

Nobody forced 343 to release a TU. They made their own bed. Hopefully they can back their Halo 4 TUs with more manpower.


Halo 3 comes out and with new and improved netcode tech they thought they could pull off having bullets have velocity, to inject some skill into the Utility weapon and not make TOO powerful.

You mean like the Halo 1 pistol? 3 didn't invent bullet leading in the series, nor did Reach introduce bloom.
 

Tawpgun

Member
I agree with him. Bungie has been managing their games perfectly after release for 10 years now and 343 just doesn't have that experience. Bungie always learned from their mistakes and never did the same things wrong in different games. You can't argue with that, it's just the truth.

lol.

If you think about it, its more or less true going from Halo 1-3 and a BIT of Reach, though Reach was where it fell apart. Halo 1 was expanded and *somewhat* balanced in Halo 2. Dual Wielding is to blame for any weapon imbalances. The BR was a more fair pistol, but since this was a game BUILT for online play on consoles, and one of the first, they made the auto aim far too much. Not to mention they had to rush the entire project. Couldn't polish it as much as they wanted to.

Halo 3 comes out and with new and improved netcode tech they thought they could pull off having bullets have velocity, to inject some skill into the Utility weapon and not make TOO powerful. It sort of worked but netcode can be tricky so the spread in addition to the netcode made the BR feel gross after a while. Halo fans didn't like inconsistency. A few Halo 3 map (Looking at you Guardian... had unfair initial spawns that gave one team an advantage) Halo 3 was also the height of the CoD and Halo war. Halo fans didn't like how CoD rewarded the good players with better kill streaks and weapons. The good get better because the game helps them. High level players have an advantage more than just pure skill. Halo fans wanted everyone starting as equals. Halo 3 was also criticized for being a lot slower than Halo 3 in terms of combat and movement. Halo Fans wanted speed back in Halo.

The bolded items are what Reach failed to learn from Halo 3.

The inconsistency argument is sort of opinionated. I can see why people AND Bungie could say they gave you control over consistency with the bloom mechanic, but this is a very black and white way of describing the mechanic. It doesn't account for enemies spamming at you and winning. Bloom turned into a game of probability.

Starting as equals was always one of the core tenants of Halo. The biggest one that Reach broke and broke bad. It wasn't as bad as CoD but it turned Halo into a psuedo class based game.

I'm surprised that after so many people complained about Halo 3's speed that they made the game slower both in kill times and movement and agility.


Hopefully 343 learns from all the Halo's. Here's the core lessons that need to be learned in Halo 4.

CONSISTENCY. Have as little luck as you can manage.

EQUALITY. No more starting with an ability. Everyone must start equally and fight for their power.

SPEED. Give us back our mobility.

in addition to this...

HITSCAN. Reach did well to learn this from Halo 3.

and more I can't think of right now.
 
Nothing ironic about what I posted, they're using a hacksaw to appease forum kids. I mean literally, some kid posted on halo.xbox.com: "REMOVE BLOOM" and then they just did that, without any sort of counter-balance or adjustment or anything. It's like a parody, and you guys defending it are ridiculous.

If anyone's tried to "just get it done" it's 343 with the TU. I mean they stood there and freely admitted it was mostly handled by one guy in a studio of hundreds. I feel like most of HaloGAF is trolling here.

I've never said Bungie was perfect Doze, but you know, they did a damn good job keeping glitches out of 3 and Reach without title updates. 343 actually introduced a glitch with their Title Update. 'nuff said.

You're just the same as them though, but instead of whining over on their forums, you're whining over here.

If 343 can listen to their community and rationally justify changing their game, then fair play to them! Any game dev should do that.
 
It's hyperbole. I don't see you chiding the other posters on this forum for taking literary license.

I might not chide it when I dont care about the subject matter but I apologise, your right its unfair to focus on the hyperbole. I did argue against your point aswell though.

Back to the point though, you made it sound like you were arguing that no one asked for the TU, I just think that is nonsense, hundreds of fans asked for it. The Gaf threads alone are evidence of that.

Nobody forced 343 to release a TU. They made their own bed. Hopefully they can back their Halo 4 TUs with more manpower.




You mean like the Halo 1 pistol?

Nobody forced 343 to release a TU which is why im so very grateful they did release one. As a fan who likes the TU that is, I know im not alone in that sentiment.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Team Snipers was never made an immediate playlist, and was, instead, inserted into the Ranked Slayer playlist in H3 and in Team Slayer in Halo Reach. Despite the fact, of course, it was highly popular in Halo 2 and was expected to return. It did, but not in the fashion you'd expect.

Also, re: playlist management topic: evade. That's all.
Nope, Bungie is and always was perfect.
 
I must admit I also got the sense that Reach was just a "get this done" project. I mean why was Sage in charge of multiplayer? What where the Bungie vets working on?

Destiny lol

Am I remembering that Bungie where contracted to get 2 more Halo games done before the split? If so its pretty clear to me at least that ODST and Reach where pretty much done just to appease the contract.
I believe you're right about the 2 Halo games, so that leads me to conclude that the contract had stipulations regarding 343's takeover of the franchise. If the TU was part of their deal, why would Bungie even attempt to make interim changes that could adversely affect 343's plans?

I will concede that Reach seems as though Bungie took the approach of "let's throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks" in regards to the massive changes that Reach has over the previous Halos. I can respect this idea solely for the fact that it was Bungie's last Halo, and they wanted to obviously change things up for their last hurrah. Whether or not I like what they did is a different matter (Boo, Sage, hissssss), but I don't believe that Bungie intentionally shoved something out just to appease a contract.
 
I've never seen Elite Slayer voted over DMRs as much as in TS right now.

Ultimate 343 Industries troll:

"Based on the results of the Team Slayer poll, Team Slayer will now be Elite Slayer".


Back to the point though, you made it sound like you were arguing that no one asked for the TU, I just think that is nonsense, hundreds of fans asked for it. The Gaf threads alone are evidence of that.
I didn't mean to give that impression, since it is clearly incorrect. I wanted a Title Update as much as anyone else, there are improvements that I feel could be made in Reach. I think the Banshee is overpowered. I think that Armor Lock is overpowered (and I think that the TU alteration of it is...meh).

My issue is that all sorts of people made requests for changes that are in no way, shape, or form, balanced or thought out, and in some instances, (as with ZBR) they just literally incorporated them. That is insane.

It's funny, I feel like the Anniversary gametype suggests a lot more iteration and polish than the TU bucket gametype. That's just my impression though, but they actually adjusted for the stronger pistol with faster movement speed, higher gravity (which facilitates faster movement), and weaker melees (which mitigates feedback-diminishing bleedthough).
 

Ken

Member
I've never seen Elite Slayer voted over DMRs as much as in TS right now.

Ultimate 343 Industries troll:

"Based on the results of the Team Slayer poll, Team Slayer will now be Elite Slayer".
Halo 4's main character will be an Elite instead of the Master Chief.
 
Reach is kind of a strange situation. How often does a game as big as Halo switch developers in the middle of it's life? I really doubt 343i's handling of this game is a sign of how the future games will be handled. 343i is focused on Halo 4. You can see that by the fact one person worked on the TU, Certain Affinity has created all the maps for Reach after the Noble Map Pack, and Saber Interactive did Anniversary. This won't be the normal situation. I'm sure Halo 4 will have a lot more support than Reach because it's their game and their view of how Halo should play. Reach is stuck between two different views of how it should play without the original developer having any control anymore and the developer now focused on bigger and better things.
 
I agree with him. Bungie has been managing their games perfectly after release for 10 years now and 343 just doesn't have that experience. Bungie always learned from their mistakes and never did the same things wrong in different games. You can't argue with that, it's just the truth.

Ha. :D Niceeee.
 
I've never seen Elite Slayer voted over DMRs as much as in TS right now.

Ultimate 343 Industries troll:

"Based on the results of the Team Slayer poll, Team Slayer will now be Elite Slayer".


I didn't mean to give that impression, since it is clearly incorrect. I wasted a Title Update as much as anyone else, there are improvements that I feel could be made in Reach. I think the Banshee is overpowered. I think that Armor Lock is overpowered (and I think that the TU alteration of it is...meh).

My issue is that all sorts of people made requests for changes that are in no way, shape, or form, balanced or thought out, and in some instances, (as with ZBR) they just literally incorporated them. That is insane.

In that case I agree with you. I remember arguing for a fixed RoF and no bloom DMR. Without bloom or a RoF its not exactly well balanced. That said I still enjoy it more than the Vanilla DMR, so for me its either playing a boring game or playing a more enjoyable but slightly broken game.

The TU is the lesser of two evils for me.
 
Reach is kind of a strange situation. How often does a game as big as Halo switch developers in the middle of it's life? I really doubt 343i's handling of this game is a sign of how the future games will be handled. 343i is focused on Halo 4. You can see that by the fact one person worked on the TU, Certain Affinity has created all the maps for Reach after the Noble Map Pack, and Saber Interactive did Anniversary. This won't be the normal situation. I'm sure Halo 4 will have a lot more support than Reach because it's their game and their view of how Halo should play. Reach is stuck between two different views of how it should play without the original developer having any control anymore and the developer now focused on bigger and better things.

Yeah, it is a really fucking weird situation and I suppose things could be as much worse as they could be better, but overall I am dissatisfied with the whole process as it's been.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I believe you're right about the 2 Halo games, so that leads me to conclude that the contract had stipulations regarding 343's takeover of the franchise. If the TU was part of their deal, why would Bungie even attempt to make interim changes that could adversely affect 343's plans?

You're extrapolating based on a faulty premise. There was no TU deal. It was extra work and it is ongoing.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Nobody forced 343 to release a TU which is why im so very grateful they did release one. As a fan who likes the TU that is, I know im not alone in that sentiment.

I have nothing against 343 releasing a TU for the game. But they didn't put the manpower and time behind it that a TU deserves. They're freaking Microsoft.

Their TU should have been bugfixes FIRST, and gameplay additions later. Instead they decided to upsell Windows Phone and DLC first, and gameplay additions second. If they thought bloom was wrong, the solution was to change the DMR's RoF, not allow people to fire the DMR faster than it's previous optimal speed. And if you're going to let the DMR fire faster optimally, CHANGE THE REST OF THE SANDBOX to compensate. Halo 2 1.1 was a dramatic change, but Bungie also touched a majority of the sandbox when they did it. They didn't just make the BR spreadless and call it a day. They adjusted the melee damages of just about everything, changed the BR, changed the grenades, fixed glitches like sword flying and flag pulling, and even improved splitscreen by reducing screen clutter.

Changing 3 weapons (Pistol, NR, DMR) and not changing ANYTHING else was silly. Bleedthrough was advertised as a separable feature to enhance Team Classic which was fine, then they have forced it into the rest of Reach and even proudly proclaimed that the shield feedback didn't even matter. We went from a developer that was able to write an entire GDC presentation on the balance implications of changing the Sniper Rifle's firing rate by .2 seconds to one that just seemed to be trying to act like the cool uncle to forum blowhards while telling the other side of the fanbase that they weren't taking their game away (and still are) while leaving them a total of 2 playlists. I remain convinced that if fall damage and PP stun had not been cut, we would have been stuck with those in mainline Reach as well. Would people have been fine with you being able to jump off the top of Spire or Sword Base with no fall stun and be able to not move off your spawn in Invasion because two elites are walkstunning you with PPs that they spawn with?

And then we end up with insufferable design decisions like the TU pistol - which was able to kill you in 4 shots versus the DMR, which made it more useful than a shotgun at close range. Then they do their little cute update where the pistol now kills in 5 shots but the 4th shot still leaves your shields on. Why not adjust the damage so the freaking thing pops your shields on the 4th shot? That would make tons more sense, but no, we end up with two weapons that are supposed to have the same damage, kill in the same number of shots, but one actually tells you that you're about to die and the other one is all SURPRISE BITCH, YOU DEAD. They're trying to make all these changes to justify cramming bleedthrough into Reach when they just need to drop the idea and save bleedthrough for Halo 4 if they want it so damn badly, because Halo 4 would actually be designed around the mechanic.

The AL and Camo changes are for the sake of change. It's still a "pause button" in their own terms, so if it doesn't work in a playlist they need to just delete it from that playlist instead of trying this middling solution. The AL drain is neglible and a waste of a grenade or sniper round. The camo change was also laughable, it reduced the distance you can crouch walk with it by a few feet. Once again, if it was deemed to be breaking a playlist, it should have been deleted from the playlist. When something didn't work out in previous games, where possible Bungie just said "well shit, that didn't work out" and deleted it. They listened to the fanbase and gave you an entire playlist without AL in Squad Slayer (and most of their new lists had no AL). Then 343 starts reintroducing AL into everything because now they've attached a goddamn achievement to it to sell more DLC.

At some point 343 needs to decide if they're a startup studio or the AAA gathering of developers that they keep pimping out. You can't tell me Halo 4 is going to be fine (it will be) because they're an AAA studio and then tell me they're still learning game design with their decisions for Reach. If they would have just RoF locked the DMR and Pistol, I would have been sad that people just dug in their heels and refused to learn the new mechanic but at least the entire sandbox would have remained intact. Instead we end up with a weapon that either breaks some of the sandbox (85%) or most of the sandbox (zero bloom). Shit, the NR was obviously entirely designed around bloom and they couldn't even bother to make it's setting separate, any change they make to the DMR carries over to the NR for some unfathomable reason. You didn't see Bungie make the carbine and pistol zero-spread in 2 when they did it to the BR. And then 343 goes and throws the LAN community under the bus, which would allow them to go as far as changing vehicles and they touched none of them, and the original Reach disc maps and DLC do not (and apparently never will) show up in Anniversary Classic, so what was the point of breaking LAN just to let you use the Halo 1 pistol on all of those maps? The H1P should have been a weapon only on the Anniversary maps, then they could have used Megalo to spawn you with it without torching LAN over selling more DLC.

And before someone says I think Bungie is perfect, I do not. The Halo 2 BR change was a mistake. Changing the Arena from ratings position to win/loss made it boostable again, and was a bad decision. Making the majority of Halo 3 DLC required was a huge mistake, as a lot of people I know just started maining CoD after they could only play 2-3 lists in Halo 3 and never came back. The Drop Shield was a horrible idea, and Evade should have never been on Spartans (or at least not allow them to launch themselves across maps with it).

I want Microsoft to back their games like it's their goddamn flagship (because it is). If they're just going to get caught looking ahead to Halo 4, you have no business patching the game done by another developer unless you're going to dedicate as much time and money as you can. It's why I'm just going to wait for Halo 2 Anniversary or Crackdown 3 or whatever is to get Halo 4's DLC because they're just going to release it and then obviously be looking forward to Halo 5. The TU should have been global from the word go and implemented across all modes. Even if they were to properly make all of MM TU tomorrow, you still have to deal with switching when you go to Firefight (and if Firefight Versus ever comes back)

This opinion post (C)2012 Gawker Media / Wall of Text Incorporated
 
I dont agree with it all, and I would hate to spend the next 5 hours breaking down your post bit by bit, but you make some damn good points in there Fyrewulff.
 
I especially enjoyed how the game decided what the best team in that party was.

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/cool%20gifs/grand/39062008_cool_gif.gif[IMG]




I thought it was the baconator.[/QUOTE]

It's the crocodile rifle dude!

And Elzar, I'm still waiting for you know what ;)
 
You're extrapolating based on a faulty premise. There was no TU deal. It was extra work and it is ongoing.
Good to know, and glad to hear that it's ongoing. Now if you would just tell me all of the other behind the scenes goings on with you guys I won't have to wrongly assume anything. A PM would be fine. ;-)


And it was FaceMelter in the beta, now it's just The Assister.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom