Support NeoGAF

[Stinkles]

Frankie please tell me that is rendered ingame and not just a cinematic.

Look at the textures! The visor reflection! The smooth animation! Ahhhhh!!

That is straight capture at native res, I believe, but definitely the game. Detached camera, turn chief's head with game control (look left).

 

[Trey]

That's the point of what I'm getting at. The best analogy I can give is one of Ghaleon's firefight vids. He adapted to the situation at hand(no teammates alive and a wave full of Elites, Brutes, and Grunts), and it was one of the most brilliant 5 minutes I've ever watched. Add PvP to that, and it can be amazing to watch.

It can be amazing to watch, but that's incumbent upon the gameplay and systems that allow skill to be displayed, not the respawn timers.

I honestly try not to be dismissive of arguments, but this is wrong.

Focus on the DOTA element: randomized skill damage ranges, randomized rune spawns, randomized item procs. And people love watching it. There's a lot of money around it.

Halo? Well, the meat of it is some extraeneous element that is difficult to keep tabs on and not very interesting. There's a reason why timer games like Quake have been eclipsed, despite the complete focus on skill and lack of random elements. Competitive gaming is as much about skill as it is it's ability to be entertaining for spectators.

I'm ignorant to DOTA's scene, but I'll still accept your premise.

I disagree that randomized weapon timers will provide more viewers or more interest. And I don't think you can bridge that point across the genres considering the structure of competitive gameplay.

Further, you would have to prove that people enjoy watching it for those reasons above all else.

 

[enzo_gt]

So HaloGAF, what do we know about Spartan IVs? Does the literature provide anything juicy/potentially relevant about them, or at all?

Having MP as merely training exercises would be kind of underwhelming if they truly are going for meaningful story integration. It's kind of a stock explanation that's like half assumed anyways.

Damn, it's been a while since I've participated in theorizing, let alone posted in Halo threads.

 

[Homeboyd]

My wireless controller (that I keep hooked up to an attached wire) just quit working...

:|

It's not the ports on the xbox or the cord because it works on another wireless controller (which is unusable, but I just used it to test the ports/wire).

Can't get the controller to power on when plugged in. Any advice? Is it dead? It was working last night.

 

[Risen]

I honestly try not to be dismissive of arguments, but this is wrong.

Focus on the DOTA element: randomized skill damage ranges, randomized rune spawns, randomized item procs. And people love watching it. There's a lot of money around it.

Halo? Well, the meat of it is some extraeneous element that is difficult to keep tabs on and not very interesting. There's a reason why timer games like Quake have been eclipsed, despite the complete focus on skill and lack of random elements. Competitive gaming is as much about skill as it is it's ability to be entertaining for spectators.

Spectators loving seeing someone get screwed by randomization does not make the game balanced or inherently good competition.

The extraeneous element of which you speak is neither difficult to keep tabs on nor uninteresting to those who watch MLG competitions in Halo.

Games like Quake haven't been eclipsed by some evolution in randomness, they've been eclipsed by the passing of time and new technology.

I completely agree that competitive gaming can be as much about skill as it's ability to be entertaining for spectators in as much as there are games (such as Halo) which are MUCH more fun to watch being played competitively than say Modern Warfare.

That is straight capture at native res, I believe, but definitely the game. Detached camera, turn chief's head with game control (look left).

That's pretty sweet.

 

[Karl2177]

It can be amazing to watch, but that's incumbent upon the gameplay and systems that allow skill to be displayed, not the respawn timers.

You run around the corner and a guy has a rocket. You manage to beat him, without you dying. How do you feel? Great. You run around the corner and the guy has a rocket. He kills you. How do you feel? In Halo 2/3, it wasn't that bad, because you had opportunities like jumping or a good strafe to avoid it. Reach didn't give that chance of survival(although that game Elzar, Hydra, etc. had on Powerhouse would say otherwise). Also, I don't think incumbent is the word you're looking for.



I didn't realize that having randomness as an option was terrible. If you had the option from the start to have bloom or no bloom would you guys have been so angry about it?

 

[op_ivy]

my concerns deal with the "perk" system. yeah, i used that word frankie as from all indications, that what it is, only tied to armor pieces. i really hope that the perks are fairly minor and only add to a play style, rather then game changing abilities like in reach. i also hope it doesnt take a significant amount of time to unlock the more useful ones, putting newer players at a disadvantage.

i'm someone who has been pretty happy with reach overall, despite not liking all aspects, and i do have faith that halo 4 will "correct" some of reach's mistakes and be a better product overall though.

Just a quick thought: "perks" like being able to hold an extra grenade may be something that could be done without too much fuss.

Not sure how I feel about that. I mean, the default could be two grenades, then three, then four. I think I'd be okay with this because it isn't like Halo hasn't been able to handle someone holding eight grenades, but on the other hand, it goes against that "everyone starting on equal footing" philosophy.

i think that would be an example of a baaaaad perk. it would certainly give players a pretty decent advantage AND would increase grenade spam, which is never a good thing.

 

[CyReN]

Tsquared "A Pro Gamer's Halo 4 Wishlist "

 

[El_Chino]

I'm curious to see if Master Chief encounters any Spartans IV during the campaign.

 

[op_ivy]

Tsquared "A Pro Gamer's Halo 4 Wishlist "

"That is to say, he wouldn't mind doing away with bloom if it meant having to unlock a certain weapon attachment first." yeaaaah no.

 

[Trey]

So HaloGAF, what do we know about Spartan IVs? Does the literature provide anything juicy/potentially relevant about them, or at all?
Having MP as merely training exercises would be kind of underwhelming if they truly are going for meaningful story integration. It's kind of a stock explanation that's like half assumed anyways.

Damn, it's been a while since I've participated in theorizing, let alone posted in Halo threads.

Not yet, but there are some hints to inter-Spartan conflict down the road.

You run around the corner and a guy has a rocket. You manage to beat him, without you dying. How do you feel? Great. You run around the corner and the guy has a rocket. He kills you. How do you feel? In Halo 2/3, it wasn't that bad, because you had opportunities like jumping or a good strafe to avoid it. Reach didn't give that chance of survival(although that game Elzar, Hydra, etc. had on Powerhouse would say otherwise). Also, I don't think incumbent is the word you're looking for.

Incumbent works fine.

And what does any of that have to do with respawn timers?

 

[The Antitype]

Wow, you work quick! Thanks!

 

[vincent vega]

From what I've read, it sounds like 343 is catering to both the Reach-style of gameplay and the Halo 2/3-style of gameplay. I'm assuming when you go to multiplayer, the hoppers will be divided between Loadout, Classic, (OMG revolutionary game mode) and Community (race playlists, Action Sack, Grifball, possibly MLG).

I really hope they limit the number of playlists this time around, and that they try to keep the base gameplay similar in all the playlists.

 

[Kuroyume]

Assuming they haven't (finally) made it possible to cancel a reload then that would be a nice option as a perk. Another good one might be being able to parry a melee weapon infinitely and then stun someone who is using the sword if they get parried three times.

 

[The Antitype]

Multiplayer

Spartan IV’s abilities and weapon loadouts, altering their gameplay styles for the first time.

Ugh, what?! Keep your CoD out of my Halo.

343 better be doing this intelligently. Hopefully it's just an evolution of what Reach did, with pre-set weapon load-outs providing different starting weapons, while most of the heavy hitters are still on the map to fight around.

 

[Tunavi]

"Boy you got my heartbeat runnin' away
Beating like a drum and it's coming your way
Can't you hear that boom, badoom, boom, boom, badoom, boom, bass
Yeah that's that super bass"
-NscuDuncan

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

For Bobs.

Hm, interesting. Maybe armour will effect things like how much ammo, grenades and possibly equipment that you have? I would love to see the bubble shield back in action, and the thought of it being tied to armor is interesting.

written in one of the write ups, something like "assassinations are back and badder then ever!"

Cool, I hope that's the case then and not something the journalists made up. I would be sad to see assassinations go.

I like that a lot. I can't wait to see what other armor options Halo 4 will have.

That is straight capture at native res, I believe, but definitely the game. Detached camera, turn chief's head with game control (look left).

Wow, awesome to hear. Any other bits of info you can give to provide more context to what we are seeing in the making of vid?

 

[heckfu]

"Boy you got my heartbeat runnin' away
Beating like a drum and it's coming your way
Can't you hear that boom, badoom, boom, boom, badoom, boom, bass
Yeah that's that super bass"
-NscuDuncan

I love getting banned!!1
-Tunavi

 

[op_ivy]

I really hope they limit the number of playlists this time around, and that they try to keep the base gameplay similar in all the playlists.

me too on both counts!

things like weapon respawn timers i'm ok with changing between playlists, but certainly not base player traits like the current reach situation.

 

[The Antitype]

Ok, I know I JUST asked for an avatar, but my fanboyism is running away with me. Has anybody turned this shot of Master Chief into an Avatar yet? I was thinking a shot of the upper torso, from the top of his helmet, down to the barrel of the BR.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

With the news released today, it seems (can't confirm this yet) 343 is moving beyond that "start everyone on equal footing" philosophy of Halo that set it apart from the juggernauts of today. Halo was unique among the CoDs and the Battlfields in that it doesn't need sprint, it doesn't need weapon customization, it doesn't need that points system. It was uniquely Halo, and it stood out. I'm really worried about Halo losing its "individuality" so to speak with the type of changes we're hearing (not seeing, but hearing).

The thing that bothers me about your reply here Dax is one I see many many times about Halo. The people that truly love Halo don't ever want to see Halo evolve with the times. Does it need to be like MW3? No, of course, not. It needs to be Halo, but it also needs to be a 2012 first person shooter, not a 2001, or 2004 shooter with a new coat of paint.

Sprint for everyone (if that's how it works) is something I have wanted since 2, because casually walking around a map seems slow and unbecoming of a Spartan.

The perks, well it's just too early to tell because we literally know nothing of them.

I just want to see Halo take some of the good things the FPS genre has created since 2001 and implement them while keeping to the Halo structure. It seems all the negative opinions I usually read on Halo are summarized as "we want Halo 1 HD or Halo 2 HD, not anything new."

More a view overall, and not specifically on what you said, but what you noted brought it to mind.

 

[dragonelite]

So any words if this will come in 2 dvds separating single player and multiplayer.
The unique multiplayer maps kinda gave of the idea.

And it would be a nice way to only sell multiplayer later on like sony did with KZ 3.

 

[CyReN]

Ok, I know I JUST asked for an avatar, but my fanboyism is running away with me. Has anybody turned this shot of Master Chief into an Avatar yet? I was thinking a shot of the upper torso, from the top of his helmet, down to the barrel of the BR.

 

[enzo_gt]

So any words if this will come in 2 dvds separating single player and multiplayer.
The unique multiplayer maps kinda gave of the idea.

And it would be a nice way to only sell multiplayer later on like sony did with KZ 3.

I've been thinking this too. As soon as they mentioned the abundance of art assets they're creating, I'm thinking a MP/SP split would be likely. All depends on how grand the SP is though really, compressing it down might still do the job. I'd rather they have the extra room to stretch their legs.

 

[The Antitype]

The thing that bothers me about your reply here Dax is one I see many many times about Halo. The people that truly love Halo don't ever want to see Halo evolve with the times. Does it need to be like MW3? No, of course, not. It needs to be Halo, but it also needs to be a 2012 first person shooter, not a 2001, or 2004 shooter with a new coat of paint.

Sprint for everyone (if that's how it works) is something I have wanted since 2, because casually walking around a map seems slow and unbecoming of a Spartan.

The perks, well it's just too early to tell because we literally know nothing of them.

I just want to see Halo take some of the good things the FPS genre has created since 2001 and implement them while keeping to the Halo structure. It seems all the negative opinions I usually read on Halo are summarized as "we want Halo 1 HD or Halo 2 HD, not anything new."

More a view overall, and not specifically on what you said, but what you noted brought it to mind.

Agreed, I just think they need to be careful about walking the line.

The fact is, if Halo 4 becomes a sci-fi COD, it will get crushed by the brand power and larger community of the REAL COD.

So they have to keep part of what makes Halo unique in there.

I have two hopes:

1) Weapon loadouts are either pre-set for balance, or they are limited to the starting utility weapons.

2) Armor abilities/perks whatever are CLEARLY VISIBLE from a distance. If somebody out there can take some extra shots, or can cross a distance faster than average, I want to know and be able to take that into account ahead of time, not be surprised by it.

3) Power weapons and power-ups are still important to map design, and are on the map for players to fight over.

 

[kittens]

Just caught up on the past ten pages. Fucking hype.

I don't like the look of that mech. I'm actually kind of anti-mech in general... They're usually slow and cumbersome and boring. They're only marginally more fun than plodding along with a detached turret. With that said, I haven't played Halo 4, have no idea if the mech's are even usable, and am totally talking out of my ass.

Anyone notice the thrusters on the back of the mech? That could make them more interesting, if playable.

I don't like the helmet of the Spartan IVs all that much. Not a big deal, assuming that there's a robust armory with plenty of other options. I really hope perks aren't tied to specific armor pieces -- I want to make more Spartan look pretty without worrying what abilities I'm being stuck with.

That nanomachine logo animation really has me curious. Between that and the door prying animation, I'm wondering if we'll indeed be seeing Metroid-like upgrades and unlockable areas.

And the possibilities surrounding clans has me sooooooo excited.

 

[The Antitype]

Wow, thanks dude. I'm gonna claim this one!

 

[kylej]

what is this about random weapon placements? Reach is a disaster partially because it's a randomized chore to play a game, you can't hold anything because everyone is spawning everywhere at all times. More variables does not = better, despite what some believe. Halo is at its best in something like MLG Pit, or Guardian ball, or whatever, where you have very concrete, set variables and it becomes a battle against the other player rather than a battle against the game. Please tell me random weapons is just typical games journalist retardation.

 

[kittens]

Yeah, random power weapon locations and/or timers sounds awful. If true, I really hope it's limited to social lists.

 

[The Antitype]

what is this about random weapon placements? Reach is a disaster partially because it's a randomized chore to play a game, you can't hold anything because everyone is spawning everywhere at all times. More variables does not = better, despite what some believe. Halo is at its best in something like MLG Pit, or Guardian ball, or whatever, where you have very concrete, set variables and it becomes a battle against the other player rather than a battle against the game. Please tell me random weapons is just typical games journalist retardation.

I don't agree with your point about variability being bad or MLG being best, but I do think that something as integral to Halo as the weapon spawns should be fairly consistent.

If they are set on doing this, what if there was some kind of HUD countdown (2 minutes or so), that alerted everybody on the map that a new weapon was spawning in such-and-such location (or two weapons, in locations across the map were spawning, forcing teams to choose how to go about it). It would definitely encourage some battles around key areas of the map.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I think Halo 4 will be a split disk game just for the fact MP has its own story and maps seem to not take place in SP, speaking of SP did anyone get the feeling that it looks more open (like Metroid Prime open)

 

[Domino Theory]

Tell me Wraparound isn't the sexiest map you've seen. I couldn't get over the art style for that map when David did a flythrough of it.

 

[Tunavi]

You know what I just realized?

Its been basically exactly 2 years since we first saw Halo Reach's Multiplayer for the very first time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E95PeZ0qsLY
March 3rd, 2010. The 343 vidoc was actually uploaded on the 3rd as well, just made public today

Edit: damn this reach video is terribad. Loadouts, jetpacks, armor lock, bloom, sword base hahahahahahahahah

Tell me Wraparound isn't the sexiest map you've seen. I couldn't get over the art style for that map when David did a flythrough of it.

Looks like narrows and wizard combined. I'm okay with this!

 

[op_ivy]

That nanomachine logo animation really has me curious. Between that and the door prying animation, I'm wondering if we'll indeed be seeing Metroid-like upgrades and unlockable areas.

And the possibilities surrounding clans has me sooooooo excited.

with an ODST style hub world on a larger scale? <3

 

[Steelyuhas]

Just a quick thought: "perks" like being able to hold an extra grenade may be something that could be done without too much fuss.

Not sure how I feel about that. I mean, the default could be two grenades, then three, then four. I think I'd be okay with this because it isn't like Halo hasn't been able to handle someone holding eight grenades, but on the other hand, it goes against that "everyone starting on equal footing" philosophy.

Yeah I was thinking that could be it. That player has 3 Frags, so maybe that is the 'Grenadier' perk/class, you start or can carry an extra grenade.

Hawt

You know what I just realized?

Its been basically exactly 2 years since we first saw Halo Reach's Multiplayer for the very first time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E95PeZ0qsLY
March 3rd, 2010. The 343 vidoc was actually uploaded on the 3rd as well, just made public today

God that trailer is so good.

Which reminds me why I'm little disappointed with the stuff shown today. Not the content that was shown, but just that so little was shown. Look at all the weapons, abilities, features/gametypes were shown in that Reach trailer.

 

[op_ivy]

Tell me Wraparound isn't the sexiest map you've seen. I couldn't get over the art style for that map when David did a flythrough of it.

how was spartan visibility on that map? looks incredible, but i must admit, i'm a little afraid of players hiding in the brightest regions...

 

[Hypertrooper]

I&#8217;m in a paradoxical position right now. I LOVE what I have seen and I&#8217;m hyped. The game looks brilliant. Or it looks brilliant too me and that is all what matters. I&#8217;m much more hyped than I was for Reach at this point. But there is a fear. I fear the &#8220;perk system&#8221;. We haven&#8217;t gotten any real information about it. So I won&#8217;t really comment. Still Reach has left an unpleasant taste in my brain/mouth/whatever when I hear words like customization or loadouts in combination with MP. But if 343i is saying I don&#8217;t have to fear anything, I won&#8217;t. Overall the MP looks like a lot of fun. The maps look impressive (especially the Forerunner one). I don&#8217;t have to say much about BR, just it sounds amazing and I hope it plays like its sound.


I love 343i&#8217;s approach to not reveal the game with campaign footage or not telling us the threat. And I love Frankie&#8217;s small teases. MP is integrated in the canon? Hell yeah. The Forerunner map gets lighted by artificial sun? Oh god. Wait? ARTIFICIAL? OMG IS IT ONYX? At this part my brain freaked out. But not. Frankie continued to damage my brain. The ancient threat is something that the Chief never faced before? So it can&#8217;t be the flood? OH. CRAP. CRAP. Nothing to say anymore, just this:

Thx plywood for the gif.

 

[Plywood]

Tell me Wraparound isn't the sexiest map you've seen. I couldn't get over the art style for that map when David did a flythrough of it.

we should get some of dat flythru

Spoiler

please

 

[El_Chino]

Has anyone checked the Bungie.net forums for their reaction to the ViDoc? Some pretty rough stuff lol

 

[Woorloog]

Has anyone checked the Bungie.net forums for their reaction to the ViDoc? Some pretty rough stuff lol

What do you mean?
Should i head over and check?

 

[The Antitype]

Tell me Wraparound isn't the sexiest map you've seen. I couldn't get over the art style for that map when David did a flythrough of it.

It looks like a solid arena map.

My issue thus far, is everything we've seen of the game (single-player and multiplayer), has been pretty consistent in the clinical, futuristic, metal, technology look.

I'm hoping the 'story' in the multiplayer allows for some variety in locals, since part of what I love about Halo is the color, and fighting on, you know, GRASS.

 

[El_Chino]

What do you mean?
Should i head over and check?

You definitely should.

 

[Karl2177]

Has anyone checked the Bungie.net forums for their reaction to the ViDoc? Some pretty rough stuff lol

If you could see the Mythic Members group, it's even worse.

 

[Kibbles]

we should get some of dat flythru

Spoiler

please

Weekly Bulletin maybe? Believe.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

We're playing halo 3 at the moment, anyone wanna join us?

 

[CyReN]

I

Thx plywood for the gif.

Amazing.

For shits and giggles one of me a few years back from mlg during our "stickam era"

 

[Havok]

If they are set on doing this, what if there was some kind of HUD countdown (2 minutes or so), that alerted everybody on the map that a new weapon was spawning in such-and-such location (or two weapons, in locations across the map were spawning, forcing teams to choose how to go about it). It would definitely encourage some battles around key areas of the map.

I think that's one of the only ways that something like that could be implemented...but the thing is, and it's why everybody is up in arms over the idea, those fights around key areas already happen in Halo games when power weapons or powerups are smartly placed. The difference is that a good player will know when to re-rush the areas for a respawn and a bad player won't. Then the bad player is at a disadvantage, and all is right in the world because he deserves to lose until he learns or outplays the guy with the rockets. A random spawn that tells everybody both where and when a weapon is going to be back just reduces the level of depth by one layer.

(I don't mean to imply that you don't know this, but I felt like I should vocalize and expand on where the trepidation folks have about this idea stems from.)

 

[El_Chino]

If you could see the Mythic Members group, it's even worse.

Haha, and i thought the Waypoint forums were bad.

 

[kittens]

we should get some of dat flythru

Spoiler

please

Weekly Bulletin maybe? Believe.

please please please

 

[Woorloog]

You definitely should.

Quick check reminded me how awful Bungie.net desing is. Didn't find anything either really, just a bunch of Halo 4 threads. Looked like standard B.netard reactions (which apply regardless of game).