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Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
Shake Appeal
Member
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
We are still going! Feel free to join.
Customs was so much fun last night, it feels good to play with you lot again after taking so much time off from Halo. I have a particularly awesome clip from the CTF on Valhalla that I want to cap later. Action!
angelkimne
Member
Yeah. It's hard not to feel the mp would be superior minus AA's.
They were so cool at first.. OMG, we'll get to jetpack around and turn invisible at will, gameplay will be so much more dynamic and exciting. But the amazement faded weeks after Reach's release, and now it has become clear that they negatively affect Halo's mp formula. This is why all (except sprint) were gradually phased out of Reach's playlists, becoming rarer and rarer. They just don't make Halo better. They make it worse.
They never had to phase equipment out of Halo 3. Equipment worked. It helped make the game more dynamic, but it was never that frustrating -- occasionally you'd have someone use a bubble shield at the last moment or use a power drain to down your banshee but those moments were rare because the equipment was rare too, and they took skill and experience to use effectively.
Of course, you can't 'unlock' equipment, and Halo is all about the CoD-esque metagame now, so regardless of whether AA's improve mp, they're here to stay.
I love being negative, it's so much more cathartic than optimism.
Pop
Member
*shrug*
I rarely have a problem with camo players. I definitely don't camp my objective to defend it, maybe this "camo problem" comes down to skill.
Nothing like that happening to me. Has this happened more then once?
User 73932
Banned
That hasn't happened to me, but these things have...
-In the middle of an assassination and the guy just gets up and walks away. (multiple times)
-Flag falling through the map.
-Boarding vehicles and then just getting off mid-animation. (multiple times)
Shake Appeal
Member
It's not stupid; this is exactly what I'm doing. What bothers me is a broader, vaguer thing that the essence of what makes Halo Halo to my mind -- and what distinguished Halo from the other shooters on the market -- has been eroded if not eradicated. I miss that part, even as I enjoy the second-to-second combat.
Implying that I camp my own objective? lol. What I meant was simply that you can see the blue boxes on your motion tracker but it's impossible to see the player at all. I think it's worse because of the dark areas on some of the maps, but it's a still a problem. Not sure why, but it was a lot easier to see in Reach.
Ever play Dominion? There's always someone camping in the base with active camo, and you have no hope of seeing them before your shields are already half way down. Same with CTF.
It has nothing to do with skill.
343 is aware of the challenge XP not showing up in the game results screen. It is a bug (for a while there I didn't doubt it was another ridiculous design decision).
https://twitter.com/bradford_welch/status/267508003920560129
https://twitter.com/bradford_welch/status/267508003920560129
Pop
Member
Regardless, if someone is crouching in a base without active camo you're still gambling by going in there. Now if their using active camo, well you get a heads up to not just run full speed into the base. I've beaten plenty of camo players, skill plays a factor.
My only hope is that MLG include a lot of forged maps that bring back that essence of map control, weapon and power pickups, and player parity. Throw in a semi-decent ranking system and it might sustain my time with the game. Obviously 343 need to allow the ability to disable instant respawns, because that was yet another dense and wholly vapid decision.
Another thing, why did I, or anyone, ever think the Limited Edition was good value if you wanted the three map packs?
I ended up cancelling because of Amazon dicking about with the delivery date, and buying the standard for £35. Then I bought a 2000 point card for £14. That makes it £49 for the game and the three map packs. The limited edition would've been £60+. That's ridiculous.
This happened to me in solo campaign, i tried to assassinate a PromKnight and the animation just stopped and the PromKnight stayed alive.
Nirvana
Member
I was slightly frustrated at that part at first as well, but I ended up going in the opposite direction with it and enjoyed the hell out of it. I hid up on a branch of one of the massive trees and just kept dipping down for ammo and new guns, ended up snapping the turret off to kill the final stragglers and nearly died in what was a heart pounding finish. I loved it. I think Legendary is a difficulty where you kind of have to be willing to expect drawn out battles and different approaches than usual.
So for me 'FUCK YEAH!'
bobs...onGaf
Member
Camo is terrible - if you crouch it doesn't even put the dots on the radar - thing is like playing the game on easy mode.
Eventually the game is going to be all about camping and taking potshots Because getting too close is just asking to walk into a AA trap. I dont remember any older Halo game being so campy because with good awareness and a good shot you could hold your own.
Game is too rock paper scissors at times.
Eventually the game is going to be all about camping and taking potshots Because getting too close is just asking to walk into a AA trap. I dont remember any older Halo game being so campy because with good awareness and a good shot you could hold your own.
Game is too rock paper scissors at times.
Shake Appeal
Member
Flood is so much better than Infection. I will probably almost never play it, but it's nice to see some game modes getting a welcome revamp!
If I had to guess, it's got the most auto aiming of the series. I feel bad sometimes about the shots I pull off, especially with the snipers.
Yeah, this is mindboggling. I unlocked it last night so I might just spend the afternoon griefing.
I remember Halo 2 having quite a bit of auto aim, but back then I played a fair amount of PC shooters, so perhaps my senses were heightened. It does feel exceptionally simple to pull off shots with the DMR though, and the BR, I'm just zoning in on people without much care or thought. I'm quite a good Halo player, I like to think, but I didn't think I was that good. I literally haven't stopped destroying people since I picked up the game, and it's beginning to feel a little simple.
I'd go through stages during Halo 3 where I wouldn't be able to hit anyone, no matter how intensely I concentrated, or how much my hands began to cramp, and competing with the BR would become really difficult, and I'd almost have to relearn the game to an extent. I can't see that ever happening with this.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Less autoaim and smaller hitboxes would be nice - that said I really struggle to get the killing headshot - even with a red dot in the reticle and hit markers - feels like hitmarkers don't work like the call of duty hitmarkers and confirm shots landed but instead simply trigger if your reticle is over someone even if lag/ spread stops the bullets from hitting.
The Librarian
Banned
What's also maddening about the Watchers is their very poor visual feedback. A Watcher that's about to die looks the same as a Watcher that hasn't been shot at to begin with. The player isn't getting anything out of shooting the Watcher; they just die. Being so small doesn't help matters too.Yeah. Before the Prometheans were revealed, 343 talked about how they were working to create new enemies who worked together in interesting ways on the battlefield. And you cans see how they did that with the Prometheans.
But the problem is, there's an absolute hierarchy to target. The Watchers 1) catch grenades, 2) regenerate Knights and 3) spawn Crawlers. Therefore:
Always. On every encounter, no matter what.
Then it's a matter of clearing straggling Crawlers or plugging enough damage into Knights to move on.
...
With the Prometheans, there's an order at play. SHOOT THE WATCHER FIRST, why would you NOT ever do that? I never once saw their grenade tossing ability, since I saw that during the E3 video and it was made clear you should kill them first. Toss in their other abilities, and it's downright fooling to do otherwise. And there's not a reaction from the other enemies, that I could tell, to their types getting taken out, as with the Covenant. Just a hierarchy to whittle down.
I think Watchers would've been better if they were handled like Engineers in ODST and Reach. Don't have them in every encounter, but every once and a while to vary up the encounters and the pacing. I can't believe I'm about to say this – because it happened with Reach and Halo 3 – but Halo 4 is making me appreciate Reach's fantastic player feedback system. I've actually had an itch to go back and play it to compare it to Halo 4. You never know what you have until it's gone...
I wonder how responsible hitmarkers are for the current feedback system in Halo 4. How would the game be different had 343 implemented a "no hitmakers" rule? Hitmarkers are such a lazy way to tell the player if she's doing any damage, and so there's not as much need to develop more entertaining, exaggerated, and extravagant visual, notable sound, and gameplay-oriented feedback. I miss killing Grunts and seeing their methane tanks explode after whizzing around the room.
...
I've been too negative about Halo 4. I need to make a positivity post.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yeah, how hard would it be to have bits of the Watchers fall off as you rain on them? The feedback for Prometheans is bad, apart from headshots on Crawlers and Knights.
Also, is Flood bugged? Just had a fellow Spartan show up red on my radar, kill me with his AR, and convert me to Flood.
Also, is Flood bugged? Just had a fellow Spartan show up red on my radar, kill me with his AR, and convert me to Flood.
The Henery
Member
They really need to patch the ui. Nuke the current one. Among other annoyances, why is there no headshot counter in the post game stats? I do n't want to have to check everyone's medals to find that out. Kd on the second stat screen. Why?
Ms owns everything about Halo, why didn't they just copy paste Reach's ui?
Oh, also, active camo is a disgrace in this game. It ruined hundreds of games of Reach for me and now it's back, and it's somehow even worse. Do they even test aa's? Needs nerfing BIG TIME.
Ms owns everything about Halo, why didn't they just copy paste Reach's ui?
Oh, also, active camo is a disgrace in this game. It ruined hundreds of games of Reach for me and now it's back, and it's somehow even worse. Do they even test aa's? Needs nerfing BIG TIME.
I'm not having that, to be honest. I'm just dropping five shots anywhere and everywhere, to the point where it isn't as rewarding as it once was in prior game. Perhaps it's because true skill hasn't embedded itself properly yet, in fact, that's probably a large part of the issue, but it doesn't help stem the feeling of ambivalence when I'm just coasting around the map in the knowledge that one on one fights aren't overly taxing.
I'm sure a large part of that is also that I couldn't give a shit about winning the match, nobody does; if I die, who gives a shit? Not me, especially not my team. And people don't even know I've died anyway because the scoring system is utterly useless at communicating the score in a game of slayer.
On the subject of Prometheans, specifically watchers, I will say that they pale in comparison to Engineers because Engineers forced you to find plasma weapons, which forced you into other areas of the sandbox, and also provided a sense of 'oh shit' when you were facing a group of covenant with only ballistic weapons.
I can't put into words how disappointing Prometheans are, both in their execution, and in the way they give you less time fighting the unequivocally superior Covenant.
bobs...onGaf
Member
What weapon are you using? Feels like BR / dmr / carbine are all so situational that I can't settle for which I want to use and just get frustrated when I get into a battle where I know my choice in the main menu was the wrong one.
The DMR and Lightrifle are good everywhere. The BR works only on short range. The Carbine is kinda pointless as the other choices are better.
Weapon balance at its fines, half the weapons are useless. Not that Bungie ever got this right either. Nor any other game i've played...
Pop
Member
Maybe cause the hit registration was terrible in H3 or the fact you had to lead shots. Now we have hitscan back and people still bitch. Geez
You sure your trueskill is working correctly haha. I've been in plenty of intense matches in every playlist minus Infinity and Flood. DMR/BR battles are no joke when facing someone of equal skill range.
DMR. BR is pathetic in comparison, from my experience. If you're able to hit all your shots the DMR is unarguably superior. And with the lavish amount of auto aim and the generally uneven opposition I've faced so far, that's pretty much been the case. I did get a lot of practice in with a no bloom DMR in Reach, I suppose, but it still feels too simplistic thus far.
I do like grenades though, to inject some positivity in my recent tirade against the game, I think 343 have balanced them superbly. They're strong, often decisive, but never overpowering.
No, I mean the simple task of tracking and following an opponent in combat scenarios, not anything to with bullets registering. It's like I had to work hard to change up my strafing patterns whilst keeping on song with the opponents, whereas in this game I barely have to think at all. It's just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop and move on. I'm not an elite player, like Tashi is, for example, but I'm finding the base game of 4 both enjoyable, but almost a little simplistic. As I've admitted there are probably a range of other factors at work in my lack of exhilaration.
As for true skill, I've had games where the end result has been fairly close, but in nearly all examples I've still been fairly positive in my end game ratio. From the basic in game stats I can see that my kills in War Games sit at around 500, and my deaths are 270 something, from memory. That's a little too skewed, in my opinion. Can't believe I'm asking to be killed more, but it'd certainly help me engage with the game a little.
Pop
Member
So you enjoy deciding factors in gun battles like bloom and leading shots...
It's quite simple in H4, the better aim wins. The bullet literally hits where you aimed. Maybe you have gotten better. Who knows but in every FPS the simplicity comes from aim, shoot, kill and move on. Now they removed all the garbage of bloom and leading shots and it's still a little to simple for you. I would suggest to you that you go join a custom with high skill players and see how you fair with the simple gun mechanics.
Der Flatulator
Member
Is the death-cam networking going to be fixed? It's frustrating being shot through a wall, then watching a replay of your enemy shooting you through a wall...
I feel like getting headshots was easier in Reach for some reason. In Halo 4 I often have people 1-shot and still have put several shots in them to get the headshot. This is mostly with the DMR or BR, the LR seems really generous with headshots at long range.
They fixed it with that day-1 patch!
Der Flatulator
Member
I downloaded the 1.01 TU and it didn't fix it.
No.
I don't know what you're doing here, whether you're trying your best to argue your point by making me out to sound like some raving bloom-o-phile (which we all know are certifiably crazy individuals), but I've never once intimated I enjoyed bloom or leading my shots. Perhaps you've simply misunderstood my point, I'll expand...
Yes, the better aim wins, but unless you don't recognise the basic systems which underly 'aiming', such a thing can fluctuate from game to game. Aiming isn't just where you move the analogue stick, it isn't a mouse, there are certain assists under the hood which help you to do this. It's my assertion that these things are exceptionally forgiving in 4, which Shake seems to agree with.
Not that I'd rather return to modelled ballistics, or have my aim fluctuate depending on the timing of my shots.
I'd be very interested in playing with higher level players to see how the core combat evolves, but unfortunately matchmaking doesn't seem to be doing its job at the moment, and even if it is I can't tell because we aren't able to evaluate a player's general ability outside of how the perform in a single, isolated match.
Jeez, the guy with the top comment is right, that's gonna be patched fast...
I think Shake Appeal and Arnie have pretty much nailed my feelings on multiplayer.
I'm having a lot of fun, but I really do miss the likes of Halo 2 and a lesser extent, 3. I feel that now we've seen Halo go so far in the direction it's currently in, that it would be impossible to go back to the way it was before. It's too far gone and we've just got to deal with it.
I'm having a lot of fun, but I really do miss the likes of Halo 2 and a lesser extent, 3. I feel that now we've seen Halo go so far in the direction it's currently in, that it would be impossible to go back to the way it was before. It's too far gone and we've just got to deal with it.
Wait... Spartan Ops doesn't scale? WTF? I didn't think it was too bad, I only died a few times on Legendary with the last mission, and it had only a few frustrating bits comparable to Legendary on other Halo games for solo, but it'd be incredibly dumb if it didn't scale.
And I haven't done the crawler mission yet but now I'm scared. The ending of that mission will be terrible with all the bad spawns equipped to serve you death as fast as possible. I agree though, when your fighting just crawlers, you feel like your just going through the motions at some point.
hire arnie?
My feedback on multiplayer so far:
It never really feels like I'm contributing. There's little to no feedback that I'm hitting someone, regardless of the player speed. It's like oh, I kinda got a kill that time, now I can drop a laser, time to get some kills now I guess.
In Reach, there's a defnite feedback to when I'm hitting someone with the NR/DMR/whatever weapon I'm using. There's a solidness to it. If there's hitstun from my shots on an enemy in Halo 4, I sure can't tell. The base gameplay is definitely Halo, but there's something that bugs me while playing that I can't quite place.
I've yet to see an last-kill cam. They don't even come up reliably for kills in games with only two people..
It never really feels like I'm contributing. There's little to no feedback that I'm hitting someone, regardless of the player speed. It's like oh, I kinda got a kill that time, now I can drop a laser, time to get some kills now I guess.
In Reach, there's a defnite feedback to when I'm hitting someone with the NR/DMR/whatever weapon I'm using. There's a solidness to it. If there's hitstun from my shots on an enemy in Halo 4, I sure can't tell. The base gameplay is definitely Halo, but there's something that bugs me while playing that I can't quite place.
I've yet to see an last-kill cam. They don't even come up reliably for kills in games with only two people..
i'm not so sure. i havent really used it, other then a secondary, but i played against some pretty good players that would downright destroy me with it at close to medium vs my dmr - and i fancy myself a competent player. i think as we all get more experience with the game, the br will be shown to be the better tool at close range.
RIP NR
I honestly think that camo crouching is what's going to break me and make me not play the game anymore. Every game there's multiple people using it now and it's fucking infuriating.
Pop
Member
Yea I need some variety not just slayer 24/7.
Nirvana
Member
As far as I can tell, the argument of auto-assist making the game 'easier' is totally redundant, because if you are being aim-assisted, so is your opponent, which means if you win the BR battle, you were still better than the other guy.
I think the aiming feels right in Halo 4, just the right amount of assist and not quite as heavy as Halo 2's was in my opinion. I do have to agree with some people that getting that final headshot with the DMR can be a bit taxing some times; just doesn't seem to want to click for some reason.
I disagree that the BR is worse than the DMR though. It fills the role it's supposed to, at medium range it does a far better job than the DMR and I would use it 100% of the time on smaller maps. I think the reason people think the DMR is better is because there AREN'T smaller maps. Adrift and Haven are really the only two that fill that gap, which is my one issue with Halo 4 MP. We need some Guardian sized maps where 4v4 doesn't make the map feel empty. Doubles is going to be a giant game of hide and seek.
Also, as I've said before...the goddamn SAW.
I'm referring to my own ambivalence in combat scenarios because tracking the opponent isn't taxing enough, not that it somehow allows anyone an advantage over another. Your point is correct, but it isn't wholly relevant to the post you quoted.
We'll have to agree to disagree, I've played predominantly on Haven and Adrift because I stick to mostly Slayer Pro, which means these occur over 50% of the time, and in that I've tested both the DMR and BR and felt, without a doubt, that the DMR is superior in almost all combat scenarios. If you can hit your opponent consistently and are able to nail the headshot it's just faster, and without seeing specific numbers I'd be tempted to say that's a fact. Where the BR takes advantage is in real close quarter duels whereby you can still manage to hit the opponent with some shots by pulling your aim, even if your initial shot wasn't blob on, so to speak.
Nirvana
Member
I'm willing to agree to disagree, but I would guess that 343 would have run those numbers in order to balance the weapons in the first place, it would make no sense for them to have not done exactly that. But we wont know until that certain small group of individuals who do those sorts of tests feel the inclination to do so. I think overall the BR just feels more solid for me, echoing other people's thoughts on hit registration, I think the DMR has some issues there, which makes the BR a better choice for mid to short range seeing as you have the spread to counter that; whereas at long range the battles don't require such quick reflexes.
But this is opinion and like you said, without the numbers, conjecture; agree to disagree indeed.
P.S. Someone make a Guardian remake...
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