• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights

D

Digital Limit

Member
Deadly Cyclone said:
Re: Jetpacks.

From what I'm seeing here both groups are saying two different things that can be equally correct. Group 1 (majority) notes that jetpacks break map flow and design, which is 100% correct for maps before Reach (maps weren't designed for jetpack) and could be correct for newer maps.

Group 2 is saying you CAN design maps with jetpacks in mind. I don't think he's trying to say Halo 3/2/1 maps work fine with jetpacks, I think he's saying it's possible for the designers to make maps that work with jetpacks.

The issue seems to be that people disagree that Reach and 4 maps were designed with jetpack in mind. It almost seems like they designed the Halo 4 and Reach maps, then added jetpacks to the mix, not vice-versa. This seems to be the problem. The other problem is actually trying to design a map that works with jetpacks. To do so, generally it has to be an indoor map (so you can use floor to ceiling walls to limit jetpack movement). Any kind of outdoor map is broken by the height at which a person can fly and where they can land.

As Duncan noted the jetpack works exactly as it should, the issue is more the gameplay and design around it. Overall jetpack just introduces too many map design challenges and not enough benefits to outweigh the drastic change in flow. My two cents.
Click to expand...

As someone who worked on a Forge remake of Avalanche, I completely agree. If it weren't for the jetpack, map design would be a lot less expensive both in mind and actual in-game resources.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Major differences don't mean "broken". Halo 4 has its own flows, and its own teamwork, and its own emergent scenarios based upon moment to moment realities, and *not* on timings *built* into the level design.

Jetpack doesn't "break" anything. Halo 4 isn't Halo 3 - its not classic gameplay with static spawns and a level playing field. Choices ARE made in the menus that can provide you an advantage or disadvantage, depending. That happened. Now, given those changes, calling something broken because it doesn't play out like older Halo games makes it seem like people are unable to play the game in front on them, on its own merits.

There are a ton of good gripes here, and Halo 4 needs some changes. But so often here, just saying how Halo 4 is different than old school is the entirety of the point being made in a post. Its those posts I have a problem with, because its not about jetpacks in particular, or flinch in particular, its about how the level playing field has been removed along with some predictability - we know that now - that's implicit. And knowing that, for instance, providing a risk/reward cost to AA usage *is* one good way to provide balance.
 
E

Enfinit

Member
Karl2177 said:
It's like I'm playing a $60 version of Rock Paper Scissors.
Click to expand...

image.php
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
heckfu said:
I want you to like this game more than I've wanted you to do anything ever. TP was such a great Zelda game to me and I want more people to have the same enjoyment as I did.

One of those games I can remember starting and have vivid memories of the second I finished it.
Click to expand...
Right now I'm in the process of playing it and it's a slog. Every time you go into wolf form it feels like complete filler, and I'm hating this tendency of taking control away from the player during a lot of encounters and map transitions to show you something. I'm only at the third dungeon so far but I don't think I've enjoyed any of it up to this point. I'm also playing the Wii version so waggle to replace a button press isn't fun.
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
ncsuDuncan said:
Jetpack is really fun to use, but it shouldn't be an Armor Ability. Double jump might work as an AA without totally breaking map flow, but that's it.

Jetpack should be a vehicle/weapon hybrid. Combine the AA pickup item with the Flagnum.
- Hold X to pick it up. It takes up a weapon slot.
- Limited fuel. Hold LT to thrust (like a vehicle boost). Can't throw grenades.
- Limited flagnum ammo. Press RT to fire, X to reload. (Or whatever your control scheme uses.)
- Press Y to switch to a normal weapon, but you can't use jetpack until you switch back with Y.
- Once the ammo is depleted, replace it with a new weapon (hold X to pick up).
Click to expand...

I actually really like this idea. Make it a power weapon like pickup where you sacrifice a weapon slot.
 
T

Trey

Member
Karl2177 said:
It's like I'm playing a $60 version of Rock Paper Scissors.
Click to expand...

It would be if every encounter was a one in three chance to win. None of the AAs are hard counters against one another, and the perks only exist to make the game easier to play.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Re Zelda: I have never finished one. I owned Link's Awakening on GameBoy but never beat it. I now own Ocarina on 3DS and have gotten past the water dungeon, but have yet to go back. Those dungeons are tough, they don't tell you anything about how to open certain doors or where to go.

Halo.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Yeah so uh, in getting my ass whooped in SpOps Chapter 1 for this week on legendary, does anyone want to party up and help do it?
So many waves, god this is such bad design when combined with terrible spawns :/
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
enzo_gt said:
Yeah so uh, in getting my ass whooped in SpOps Chapter 1 for this week on legendary, does anyone want to party up and help do it?
So many waves, god this is such bad design when combined with terrible spawns :/
Click to expand...

But..but..but you have unlimited lives!


I still can't believe there's no MM options for difficulty.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
kittens said:
We're talking about Zelda again? Now that's my type of Halo discussion! I think I'm going to buy a Wii and try Twilight Princess again soon, but this time the GC version. I wonder if the superior camera controls will make me like it more. I'm curious to go back to it nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Maybe that had something to do with my dislike of TP, but mostly I just felt like I was slogging through the same crap as every Zelda game, except somehow more monotonous and repetitive (dispelling the shadows before going into the dungeons, etc.)

(insert joke about Spartan Ops.)

The isometric Zelda games were simply more interesting to me in terms of playing with the basic concept and adding in more elements that mixed things up. I haven't played Skyward or Spirit Tracks, though.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Maybe I should give TP another try.

I played it back when I was 15ish (read: dumb and had bad taste in media) and didn't like it. If/when I finish OoT 3DS, I'll try it again.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
I think this is the least excited I've ever been about a Halo map pack. Not because I don't like the game, but because....

The game desperately needs some smaller maps and instead we get mid to large size maps that look like Complex and Vortex (the two worst maps in the game). Visually bland and repetitive....
You can make anything your heart desires and this is what you come up with? Where is the creativity?

Very disappointing. I'm almost regretting getting the Season Pass.

In other news, Team Regicide is fun.
 
R

Redford

aka Cabbie
You don't need good taste to appreciate TP, it isn't that tasteful in the first place. A solid game but nothing amazing.

---

So if Team Regicide becomes popular can we sack FFA Regicide and have Slayer?
 
U

u4iX

Member
Hey Spartan Ops... More enemies =/= more fun.

There's no pacing, sense of enemy composition, or even basic semblance of consistency.
 
A

Akai__

Member
Can somebody explain, what I need to do for the "No Easy Way Out" achievment?

We completed it twice, but it's not unlocking. -.-
 
H

Havok

Member
CrazY CroaTia said:
Can somebody explain, what I need to do for the "No Easy Way Out" achievment?

We completed it twice, but it's not unlocking. -.-
Click to expand...
It appears to require the mission to be on Heroic, not Normal like the description says. Seems like you can die as much as you want, and up to one of the points can be destroyed. Before you hit the final button (the one that's indoors), make sure everything is dead first.
 
C

CyReN

Member
I don't get it, this weeks 4th level has you in a Warthog but no room to drive, but level 5 you are in a open space and no vehicles
(until the end).

Spartan Ops Mid-Season Review: 5/10.
 
A

Akai__

Member
Havok said:
It appears to require the mission to be on Heroic, not Normal like the description says. Seems like you can die as much as you want, and up to one of the points can be destroyed. Before you hit the final button (the one that's indoors), make sure everything is dead first.
Click to expand...

Thanks. We didn't want to do an other pointless run, without knowing what we HAVE to do actually. Don't know, who wrote those achievment descriptions, but there is always one in Halo, which is buggy or unclear. Especially, when they are translated into an other language.
Will probably do this tommorow, because I'm not motivated to play an other round of Halo 4.

Thanks again. :)
 
H

Havok

Member
CrazY CroaTia said:
Thanks. We didn't want to do an other pointless run, without knowing what we HAVE to do actually. Don't know, who wrote those achievment descriptions, but there is always one in Halo, which is buggy or unclear. Especially, when they are translated into an other language.
Will probably do this tommorow, because I'm not motivated to play an other round of Halo 4.

Thanks again. :)
Click to expand...
No problem. I'm actually still not 100% what the parameters are. I did a little bit of Googling after my first failed attempt and the folks over at the achievement sites mentioned the guidelines I posted above, and following their advice got me the achievement. It's a strikingly poor description of what you actually have to do.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Deadly Cyclone said:
Re: Jetpacks.

Group 2 is saying you CAN design maps with jetpacks in mind. I don't think he's trying to say Halo 3/2/1 maps work fine with jetpacks, I think he's saying it's possible for the designers to make maps that work with jetpacks.

The issue seems to be that people disagree that Reach and 4 maps were designed with jetpack in mind. It almost seems like they designed the Halo 4 and Reach maps, then added jetpacks to the mix, not vice-versa. This seems to be the problem.
Click to expand...
NullPointer said:
Major differences don't mean "broken". Halo 4 has its own flows, and its own teamwork, and its own emergent scenarios based upon moment to moment realities, and *not* on timings *built* into the level design.

Jetpack doesn't "break" anything. Halo 4 isn't Halo 3 - its not classic gameplay with static spawns and a level playing field. Choices ARE made in the menus that can provide you an advantage or disadvantage, depending. That happened. Now, given those changes, calling something broken because it doesn't play out like older Halo games makes it seem like people are unable to play the game in front on them, on its own merits.

There are a ton of good gripes here, and Halo 4 needs some changes. But so often here, just saying how Halo 4 is different than old school is the entirety of the point being made in a post. Its those posts I have a problem with, because its not about jetpacks in particular, or flinch in particular, its about how the level playing field has been removed along with some predictability - we know that now - that's implicit. And knowing that, for instance, providing a risk/reward cost to AA usage *is* one good way to provide balance.
Click to expand...
You guys put this into words better than I could have. Thanks!

j3tp@ck 4 lyfe
 
S

StalkerUKCG

Banned
Jul'Mdama is the "Black Elite" (i think this was just a concept name before he was given a name frankie or david can clear it up)

Didacts ship is called the "Mantle's Approach"

Spartans Ops is getting unreal. Its a crying shame if we don't get more of this level of CGI from halo.

Id take literally any story in this level of CGI for any amount of time. (even that dumb giant brute story from Legends) Impeccable
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
StalkerUKCG said:
Jul'Mdama is the "Black Elite" (i think this was just a concept name before he was given a name frankie or david can clear it up)

Didacts ship is called the "Mantle's Approach"

Spartans Ops is getting unreal. Its a crying shame if we don't get more of this level of CGI from halo.

Id take literally any story in this level of CGI for any amount of time. (even that dumb giant brute story from Legends) Impeccable
Click to expand...

Kind of related but do you guys remember the cutscenes in Halo Wars? They were incredible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4zyyI5o0hM

And IMO the HW score was much better than the H4 score.

RIP Ensemble Studios :(
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Deadly Cyclone said:
Re Zelda: I have never finished one. I owned Link's Awakening on GameBoy but never beat it. I now own Ocarina on 3DS and have gotten past the water dungeon, but have yet to go back. Those dungeons are tough, they don't tell you anything about how to open certain doors or where to go.

Halo.
Click to expand...
WUT.

The Game Boy dungeons are much easier for me than the 3d ones usually, but what I love about them is you can't get yourself stuck--if you mess up there's always a way to get out of it, even as simple as leaving and re-entering the room.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
So, Paul Parsons was the Senior Sandbox Designer on Halo 4. He left 343 in January 2012, basically a year before shipping the game. The picture is what he claims he has done on Halo 4. I think we have found 343's Sage.
 
T

TCKaos

Member
I really liked Episode 5. It was nice to not see Sniper Valley. There was a nice balance of Prometheans and Covenant, a nice balance of vehicles vs infantry, and generally a good change of pace to have actual objectives that didn't involve pressing buttons. CGI episode made me shit myself, and the ending to Chapter 5 was awesome. I can't wait for next week.

To change the ambiance a bit, because I don't very much like the music used in SpOps, I listened to these songs for these missions:

Spartan Miller: Halo 3 ODST - Finale
Nothing Can Go Wrong: Halo: Reach - Engaged
Everything has Gone Wrong: Halo 2 - Unyielding
The Cauldron Base: Halo: Reach - Beta Suite
Spartan Thorne: Halo: Reach - The Pillar of Autumn
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Halo |OT 25| Did you think me defeated?!"
24 25 26 27 28
1K
138K
Ozzy Onya A2Z replied
Halo 5: Guardians |OT4| You picked a helluva week to join up
395 396 397 398 399
20K
1M
GringoSuave89 replied
Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
373 374 375 376 377
19K
1M
Artistic replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2016 |OT12| The last days of the Republic
397 398 399 400 401
20K
1M
StoOgE replied
Top Bottom