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[Arnie]

Honestly, when I heard they were bringing the BR, AND the DMR, AND the zoom magnum, AND the AR back for Halo 4, it just seemed like a fan-service move more than anything...

It seemed like lazy design to me, because I'm used to Bungie, who once dropped the Battle Rifle for a souped up pistol (which ended up being an inspired decision). Both developers have a certain philosophy on weapon balance, and I vastly prefer Bungie's, even if every now and then we get a DMR.

I'd take a BR as standard, or a bloomless DMR as standard, over a messy concoction of every weapon known to man colliding with each other in a big cloud of 'I don't give a fuck this is ridiculous'. That's a succinct description of Halo 4, by the way.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Spawning with an AR and getting pooped on people who already had BR's = The lamest thing ever.

Spawning with a BR and fighting BR users = the greatest game ever made!

I want to spawn with something to defend myself, not something that lets me pew pew and stand no chance against the people keeping their distance with a long range weapon...Halo works when you spawn with a good Utility weapon for all distances, sure a shotgun is better up close but a BR/Pistol/DMR can always fight off an AR if you do OK. Thats good stuff.

 

[u4iX]

Just kicking it for a bit on H4.

 

[JHall]

Uh huh.

Re-read it. I never said anything of the sort.

I said that a utility weapon should not be the BEST option in most any scenario.

The DMR is a utility weapon that is effective at mid-range, long range, and even short range. It is overpowered.

Please, ninja edit some more. How about before you call someone illiterate, you should actually read what you wrote.

 

[The Antitype]

The formula for a great utility weapon always seemed simple to me:

Very effective at mid-range.

Good enough at long range to knock people out of scope.

Disadvantaged to automatic weapons and shotguns at close range.

The reason that it has to be effective at mid-range, is because that's where most engagements in Halo start. The AR in Halo 3 was a good weapon, but it's strongest range was short-range, so you had to close the distance before you could use it effectively. You may as well have started everybody with a shotgun.


Halo 4 has the same problem as Halo: CE, a 'utility' weapon that is VERY effective at all three ranges.

Please, ninja edit some more. How about before you call someone illiterate, you should actually read what you wrote.

I edited out the illiterate part because I felt it was harsh, clearly I was wrong. There was no editing, and you quoted the very post in question for evidence. Read the quote in your OWN POST, fuck-wit:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45820648&postcount=12738

See the word 'best'? See it? B...E....S....T. BEST!

 

[NullPointer]

^ THAT

The DMR only needs a very subtle tweak though.

Scattershot needs some love and bolt shot needs a nerf.

Edit: DMR should be the utility weapon for mid/mid-long, with BR being mid/mid-close. Both would be useful depending upon the map and playstyle really.

 

[Arnie]

The formula for a great utility weapon always seemed simple to me:

Very effective at mid-range.

Good enough at long range to knock people out of scope.

Disadvantaged to automatic weapons and shotguns at close range.

That's basically a word for word description of the Battle Rifle.

The only thing that could be argued is its close range implementation, in that a competent player should be able to defeat an AR user, but that's certainly not guaranteed, especially with the AR+melee charge.

And there's no way a BR beats a shotgun at close range, unless the person wielding it is Stevie Wonder.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The medals in H4 are terrible because there is no visual differences that effectively contrast different medals (from both a design standpoint and use of color).

These are two different medals that commonly appear in-game. How am I supposed to know which one is for what? Not clear what they are for, and not a clear difference between the two. At a quick glance in-game, I might not see which one it actually is, or mistake it for another.

Another example:

 

[Karl2177]

I don't agree with this, though. I genuinely believe they do care, but they're currently on holiday after the game shipped, as well as taking a break for christmas. When the time's right I'm sure they'll respond and react to criticism. Will that be enough to satiate us? More than likely not. But they will address it eventually, when the time's right.

And I like writing my thoughts down because it helps me come to a greater, more holistic assessment of the game.

The more you write, the more you'll come to grips that things don't look good for the future. It probably happened the night I wrote about my "personal agenda" or whatever that kid called it, but I've been fairly detracted from writing a lot about Halo in general. I mean heck, on my whiteboard there's a thing that says stand to capture distance, stand to capture time, and damage to carrier are the ways of rewarding a flag run that I don't feel motivated to type(mostly because I know nothing is going to be done to address flag at all). I dunno, it kinda feels bad knowing that there's an improved flag formula on my board and yet when I load up the game I can't drop the flag to a teammate for a faster run.

 

[JHall]

The formula for a great utility weapon always seemed simple to me:

Very effective at mid-range.

Good enough at long range to knock people out of scope.

Disadvantaged to automatic weapons and shotguns at close range.

The reason that it has to be effective at mid-range, is because that's where most engagements in Halo start. The AR in Halo 3 was a good weapon, but it's strongest range was short-range, so you had to close the distance before you could use it effectively. You may as well have started everybody with a shotgun.


Halo 4 has the same problem as Halo: CE, a 'utility' weapon that is VERY effective at all three ranges.




I edited out the illiterate part because I felt it was harsh, clearly I was wrong. There was no editing, and you quoted the very post in question for evidence. Read the quote in your OWN POST, fuck-wit:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45820648&postcount=12738

See the word 'best'? See it? B...E....S....T. BEST!

Calling me illiterate was harsh yet you can can throw slander at me? You sir, have a way with words that even Stephen King will envy.

 

[enzo_gt]

The medals in H4 are terrible because there is no visual differences that effectively contrast different medals (from both a design standpoint and use of color).

These are two different medals that commonly appear in-game. How am I supposed to know which one is for what? Not clear what they are for, and not a clear difference between the two. At a quick glance in-game, I might not see which one it actually is, or mistake it for another.

Another example:

Pretty much my exact criticisms.

But they're SO pretty on their own ;_;

Regicide medals >>>>

 

[Arnie]

The medals in H4 are terrible because there is no visual differences that effectively contrast different medals (from both a design standpoint and use of color).

These are two different medals that commonly appear in-game. How am I supposed to know which one is for what? Not clear what they are for, and not a clear difference between the two. At a quick glance in-game, I might not see which one it actually is, or mistake it for another.

Another example:

Top post.

The more you write, the more you'll come to grips that things don't look good for the future. It probably happened the night I wrote about my "personal agenda" or whatever that kid called it, but I've been fairly detracted from writing a lot about Halo in general. I mean heck, on my whiteboard there's a thing that says stand to capture distance, stand to capture time, and damage to carrier are the ways of rewarding a flag run that I don't feel motivated to type(mostly because I know nothing is going to be done to address flag at all). I dunno, it kinda feels bad knowing that there's an improved flag formula on my board and yet when I load up the game I can't drop the flag to a teammate for a faster run.

True, but perhaps it's worth posting it when 343 surface again following their post launch hibernation. You never know. They gave Reach some great post-launch support, to the extent that I dropped back in and played the game again after a long hiatus, so I wouldn't be completely surprised if they made some hefty TU changes to Halo 4, which is after all their baby.

 

[The Antitype]

Calling me illiterate was harsh yet you can can throw slander at me? You sir, have a way with words that even Steven King will envy.

Calling you illiterate was harsh in that it's inaccurate. You can read, even if you're clearly terrible at it. Fuck-wit is more general and open to interpretation. Interpret it as you will.

 

[789shadow]

Medals are just another thing that was changed just for the sake of change.

 

[The Antitype]

The medals in H4 are terrible because there is no visual differences that effectively contrast different medals (from both a design standpoint and use of color).

These are two different medals that commonly appear in-game. How am I supposed to know which one is for what? Not clear what they are for, and not a clear difference between the two. At a quick glance in-game, I might not see which one it actually is, or mistake it for another.

Another example:

The fucking vehicle-kill, vehicle-assist medals are the worst offenders in my opinion.

 

[Stripper13]

I sometimes wonder if I'm even playing the same game some of you guys are. Halo 4 is great. A far cry from a pure halo game no doubt, but I'd question the audience that a purists Halo game would gather (and no, it wouldn't be top of the live charts these days).

All I know, is that I'm getting into pretty well matched games, quickly. It's replacing quitters with semi-capable team mates. The game is gorgeous with a steady frame rate. The guns feel and sound great, and while the DMR has some balance issues, you can still pick the BR and destroy. Maybe I'm just not that big of a Halo fan as I thought, but the load out system is reasonably engaging albeit feeling tacked on... And ordinance drops are a guilty pleasure. They are entirely unnecessary and perhaps distract from the core halo gameplay, but it's fun dropping a rail gun and wrecking with it.

I just don't get all of the bitching. Yes, 343 please fix some shit... But I'm still busting shields, trick jumping, strafing, head shotting, sniping, grenading and beating down. Fun shit.

 

[User 73706]

not at all,they are easy to get therefore have no value.

I mean the designs bro. It's not worthless art, it's priceless art.

Here's an idea, slightly borrowed from Halo: Shield and Sword. Give everyone access to ALL armor abilities from the start in the vein of Crysis, and use the DPad to cycle through them similar to Reach's emblems or Metroid Prime. This would be notable for having two armor abilities available at once: a passive one horizontally, and an aggressive one vertically. You use the AA button for activation and Sprint is an aggressive option. Switching grenades is switched back to a bumper or something.

As for how it works with controller schemes, that's a bit more difficult to say: I'd guess all Passive abilities are simply "active" on your suit while Aggressive ones need a button press. Regardless, all Aggressive (Armor Abilities) would simply be a tap.

You can use sliders in custom games to enable/disable which options can be slid through if any. Forcing passive traits is an option too.

Also notable is the fact that you can customize your AA module per loadout; if you know you won't be using a flashlight in your Marksman loadout, feel free to turn it off. However by default ALL options are available, there's not a "You pick 10" feature or anything. For all intents and purposes everybody knows what everybody has; with an ability disabled you still have to cycle through its blank spot, so nobody would have an advantage cycling to an ability quicker.

Passive Abilities:
Motion Tracker
-Yep, you can turn this off now. Need a different passive option? You lose radar. Motion Tracker is always the starting option. The Armor Ability sliders occur on the HUD in the same place as the motion tracker, roughly, to give you an idea about the interface.

Flashlight
-Old school Halo CE-style flashlight.

VISR Mode
-Straight out of ODST. NOT Promethean Vision, no wallhacks. Notable for being able to see Camo users, though Camo is only an on-map powerup or possibly an ordnance option.

Night Vision
-Reach-level night vision.

Maybe more?

All the Armor Abilities have roughly the same cool down, so you have to wait for a general "AA usage" to recharge before you can use any again. No power cycling. You can choose both abilities you start out with per individual loadout. Everything above Sprint's in first person; everything below it is third-person.

Armor Abilities:
Jet Pack
-Simply the press of a button is required rather than a hold. Works as an arcing vertical Thruster rather than a Reach or even 4-level pack. You're basically deploying an invisible Grav Lift at your feet. Very top option. I may just replace the Jet Pack with a "Jump Jet," which would just work as a double jump.

Thruster
-Buffed Halo 4 thruster. Works in first person, slightly increased distance. Second-to-highest option.

Hologram
-Halo 4 Hologram. Pretty much balanced already.

Sprint
-Default Armor Ability.

Regeneration Field
-Same as the Halo 4 equivalent, roughly, but with a smaller range. Like I said before, all abilities below Sprint are in third-person.

Jackal Shield?
-Not sure about this one because I think any ability designed as being purely defensive would ultimately just slow down gameplay. To balance it, you'd be unable to fire (the shield activates from your right hand), you have to control the shield position by looking (meaning shitty players would be terrible at covering their heads), you have to keep the shield out until it dissipates (either a full 5 seconds or until it gets destroyed), AND it takes about a complete second to get the shield active. Your spartan would have to flick their wrist or something first, meaning you can't use it like Hardlight Shield or Armor Lock for last-minute saves. Being nerfed to hell, I know what you're thinking: what's the point? Well, the shield deflects human projectiles much like a standard Jackal shield. You can still hit the person's body, but an effective user could protect their head and get from one point of cover to another (perhaps to get a power weapon) without having to worry about getting instantly pinged by a sniper.

Auto Turret
-Receives a slight buffing.

If there are any I'm forgetting or you want to see in, let me know.

Also of note is that I think I'd require a mandatory "AA Node" in maps as basically an equipment pickup. They'd probably have quicker respawn times but be in more neutral locations, resulting in skirmishes for extra battery life. After 5 complete AA uses or a full 30 seconds of Passive uses (save for Sprint and Motion Tracker) you'd be required to find a node.

Perhaps as a Personal Ordnance option (of which I'm thinking of including several "suites" rather than the base three options) there could be a Rogue suite, with the three options being:

Complete Resupply
Restores loadout grenades, fully restores ammo for loadout weapons, and restores ammo for power/Ordnance weapons to their full pickup count. It would still have to be picked up.

AA Node
Drops a one-time use AA node to fully restore your ability battery.

AA Overcharger
Basically a special AA node that allows you to use any and all of your Armor Abilities for a full 15 seconds with no recharge or cool down, but it DOES still take life from your AA meter. If you have a full meter or at least one with three uses of aggressive/15 seconds of passive remaining, you could use it to its full potential. Think of some of the ridiculous options capable with Double Jump, for example. Just remember that your overcharge would expire after three AA uses, meaning that you'd be limited to a brief (but hilariously awesome) Quadruple Jump.

 

[Arnie]

but I'd question the audience that a purists Halo game would gather (and no, it wouldn't be top of the live charts these days).

There is no basis for this.

Halo will not top the chart regardless, but activity levels were higher during Halo 3 at this stage than they are with Halo 4, and Halo 3's sustained longevity was also higher than what we saw with Reach.

In all respects moving away from pure Halo has had an adverse effect on the game's population.

 

[Tunavi]

WHATS WITH THE SLUGGISH MOVEMENT???

WHATS WITH ALL THE GARBAGE AA'S?

WHY CANT WE JUST HAVE SIMPLE GAMEPLAY?

I need a new multiplayer game.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I sometimes wonder if I'm even playing the same game some of you guys are. Halo 4 is great. A far cry from a pure halo game no doubt, but I'd question the audience that a purists Halo game would gather (and no, it wouldn't be top of the live charts these days).

All I know, is that I'm getting into pretty well matched games, quickly. It's replacing quitters with semi-capable team mates. The game is gorgeous with a steady frame rate. The guns feel and sound great, and while the DMR has some balance issues, you can still pick the BR and destroy. Maybe I'm just not that big of a Halo fan as I thought, but the load out system is reasonably engaging albeit feeling tacked on... And ordinance drops are a guilty pleasure. They are entirely unnecessary and perhaps distract from the core halo gameplay, but it's fun dropping a rail gun and wrecking with it.

I just don't get all of the bitching. Yes, 343 please fix some shit... But I'm still busting shields, trick jumping, strafing, head shotting, sniping, grenading and beating down. Fun shit.

Whats your gamertag?

 

[reggie]

Whats your gamertag?

lol, love it.

 

[Fracas]

WHATS WITH THE SLUGGISH MOVEMENT???

WHATS WITH ALL THE GARBAGE AA'S?

WHY CANT WE JUST HAVE SIMPLE GAMEPLAY?

I need a new multiplayer game.

There aren't many good ones out there. Blops II is good at times, but it's got some issues. BF3's only fun if you play with friends.

 

[Tunavi]

There aren't many good ones out there. Blops II is good at times, but it's got some issues. BF3's only fun if you play with friends.

Murder miners is godly, but not enough people play it.

 

[Plywood]

Someone please tell me what happened.

Frankie didn't save us.

 

[The Antitype]

There is no basis for this.

Halo will not top the chart regardless, but activity levels were higher during Halo 3 at this stage than they are with Halo 4, and Halo 3's sustained longevity was also higher than what we saw with Reach.

In all respects moving away from pure Halo has had an adverse effect on the game's population.

That's not entirely fair, as Halo 3 was released prior to the Modern Warfare phenomenon, while it tracked relatively well against MW for the first 6-8 months as Bungie and IW traded promotions and map pack releases, it was pretty clear from mid-2008 that one FPS phenomenon was on its natural decline while another was taking off.

There's no way to prove it, but I don't think a pure Halo would have done much better than Reach did.

I think Halo 4 is much, MUCH farther removed from Halo than Reach ever was. Bloom was divisive and the AAs weren't as well balanced as they should have been, but at it's heart, it was still Halo. Now? Weapon unlocks, perks, random ordinance, etc, etc, etc. It's so far into CoD territory, they've lost the Halo identity and it's differentiation within the market-place.

 

[NullPointer]

There's no way to prove it, but I don't think a pure Halo would have done much better than Reach did.

Yup. Among the people I know this here is truth.

 

[Stripper13]

Whats your gamertag?

57RPR

Why? I feel so exposed.

 

[The Lamonster]

Yeah I am also still loving Halo 4. You guys' bitching is annoying but whatever. I guess that's what Internet forums are for.

 

[Blueblur1]

Turn on Halo 4.

Infinity Slayer on Shatter. 2 players on the opposite team campy their base with Binary Rifle and Spartan Laser obtained through Personal and Global Ordnance.

My team loses. (We never had a chance!)

Turn off Halo 4.

 

[NullPointer]

Turn on Halo 4.

Infinity Slayer on Shatter. 2 players on the opposite team campy their base with Binary Rifle and Spartan Laser obtained through Personal and Global Ordnance.

My team loses. (We never had a chance!)

Turn off Halo 4.

That could never happen in any other Halo.

 

[Arnie]

Yeah I am also still loving Halo 4. You guys' bitching is annoying but whatever. I guess that's what Internet forums are for.

Be annoyed at 343, not us, we don't relish being unhappy and voicing our discontent. I'd rather be sat back enjoying the game, but I, and most Halo fans here obviously have different tastes than you.

I'd love to hear what aspects of the game those that are enjoying it particularly like, and why, but honestly whenever we hear posts from these people it's usually a quick word about how we should all stop complaining.

There's no way to prove it, but I don't think a pure Halo would have done much better than Reach did.

And I think it'd have a greater population than Halo 4 currently does.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't conclude much, though, I could recite many individuals who played Halo 3 daily who were done with Halo 4 within the first week, but again I know there are also those who enjoyed Halo 3, Reach, and 4, and just aren't vocal about it.

 

[Tawpgun]

Murder miners is godly, but not enough people play it.

Talk about sluggish movement and then list murder miners. wat.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Why the FUCK do I have to login to view Waypoint stats?

Just lemme look at stats!

In 2012.

Someone look up that 57RPR kid.

 

[Spawnling]

Turn on Halo 4.

Infinity Slayer on Shatter. 2 players on the opposite team campy their base with Binary Rifle and Spartan Laser obtained through Personal and Global Ordnance.

My team loses. (We never had a chance!)

Turn off Halo 4.

Personal Ordinance encourages map squatting. Quite the opposite formula for standard "Halo".

 

[blamite]

Why the FUCK do I have to login to view Waypoint stats?

Just lemme look at stats!

In 2012.

Someone look up that 57RPR kid.

It's not a real gamertag.

 

[Kuroyume]

AR was perfect in Halo 3. Great weapon to start too.

Well, I know who not to take seriously anymore.

 

[JHall]

AR was perfect in Halo 3. Great weapon to start too.

What?

 

[Syphon Filter]

Well, I know who not to take seriously anymore.

what was wrong with it?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Talk about sluggish movement and then list murder miners. wat.

Yeah I'd play Murder Miners all day if it wasn't for the horrific aiming, incredibly sluggish.

 

[The Antitype]

what was wrong with it?

You were pretty much at the mercy of people with BRs from mid-range. It was a good weapon though, short-range shield-shredder.

 

[Syphon Filter]

You were pretty much at the mercy of people with BRs from mid-range. It was a good weapon though, short-range shield-shredder.

strange,it worked for me at mid range.

 

[reggie]

It's not a real gamertag.

Yep, doesn't exist.

 

[heckfu]

Yep, doesn't exist.

Surprise surprise.

 

[User 73706]

Guys I just took a shit in some bk's mouth

try me cookie cutter motherfucker

GT: TJ NutterB

 

[Thermite]

Guys I just took a shit in some bk's mouth

try me cookie cutter motherfucker

GT: TJ NutterB

wat

 

[The Antitype]

Guys I just took a shit in some bk's mouth

try me cookie cutter motherfucker

GT: TJ NutterB

What the hell is a BK?

 

[heckfu]

Probably going to take applications if anyone wants to get the D in Fifa 13 later.

 

[NullPointer]

I'd love to hear what aspects of the game those that are enjoying it particularly like, and why, ...

* Audio/visual work is incredible, and its about time Halo was a true showcase for what the xbox hardware is capable of.

* Movement doesn't feel sluggish or floaty. It feels like you're in a suit of sci-fi armor, so even the simple act of moving, jumping or sprinting is cool. Aiming feels just right too. And when you've nailed movement and firing, and the game looks and sounds great, you're doing something very right.

* Quite possibly the best sandbox of weapons yet. BR and DMR and Pistol and an AR thats worth a damn, and more. Love the hell out of the SAW and Railgun too. And no dual wielding.

* Personal Ordnance and randomized Global Ordnance means my focus in Slayer/Big Team Slayer is on rallying with the team, taking and holding advantageous ground and trying to force a fight when holding the most advantages. I don't need to study a map's weapon drops, power-ups or timing. Jackasses aren't trying to betray me because they "called" the sniper. And as a consequence of personal ordnance I end up using more heavy weaponry in Halo 4 than any previous title, and that's not a bad thing.

* Join-In-Progress means I have yet to play a match with wildly imbalanced teams. The worst I've played has been a few 3 vs. 4 matches of Infinity Slayer, but I haven't even seen that for a while. Plenty of matches have started with major disparities in player count only to have those slots filled within the first 10 seconds. Every other Halo game left me frustrated with uneven teams and quitters on a pretty regular basis. Not this one.

* Map voting, while not my favorite thing, is improved here. Make your vote and you're done.

* I have fun experimenting with various loadout options, perks and AA combos. Trying to develop 5 different custom classes designed to maximize the way you play while minimizing what annoys you the most - yeah, I can dig it. It imbalances the game yes, but it has its own measure of fun, and it can provide some extra incentive to experiment with new tactical/support options you unlock.

* The Spartan Hub, and its Daily/Weekly/Monthly challenges and Commendations for emblems/stances etc is well put together.

* Maps designed with jetpacks in mind means its rare to see cheap jetpack camping spots. The risk/reward for jetpacks in Halo 4 is much better this time around.

* AA variety: I don't see just one AA dominating. There seems to be a healthy mix, and that does keep things dynamic.

* Most of the maps are fucking gorgeous and filled with cool little details.

Personal Ordinance encourages map squatting. Quite the opposite formula for standard "Halo".

You have to make kills to earn ordnance. I could camp with power weapons in previous Halo games just by picking them up. Not every weapon spawn required a fight.

 

[Striker]

* Quite possibly the best sandbox of weapons yet. BR and DMR and Pistol and an AR thats worth a damn, and more. Love the hell out of the SAW and Railgun too. Thankfully there's no dual wielding here too.

Yeah, there's just awful weapons like the Boltshot, Incineration Cannon, and Binary Rifle to ruin a decent day. Three of the worst weapons in the entire series, easy.

 

[Kuroyume]

what was wrong with it?

Well, generally speaking I don't like fully automatic weapons like that. Feel like shit to shoot. As for the H3 AR specifically it left you at a major disadvantage if you spawned in front of someone with a BR. Let's say you spawn with an AR on one of the ramps out on the outer circle of Rat's Nest or out in the open on Snowbound. If someone sees you spawn and they have a BR you're pretty much toast unless they can't aim with the thing. I believe if you have weapons like a BR, DMR, Carbine, or NR scattered throughout a map then it's only fair that you spawn with a weapon like any of those because there's nothing worse than spawning out in an open map or long hallway and having someone already take shots at you from a mile away while you're stuck with the AR you spawned with. Not to mention that the AR looked like crap and sounded like crap. I didn't want to use it. It was also a terrible weapon for QCQ. Just having people pull the trigger for a second and then fly 5 feet for auto lock on melee easy kill. TERRIBLE

Spawning with an AR on Avalanche or Valhalla... Made you question the judgement of those managing matchmaking.