• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT13|

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Computron

Member
J10 said:
Question: What has to be sacrificed in order to bring up the framerate? What is Halo doing at thirty frames per second that can't be done at sixty? I think Halo looks good, I think Call of Duty looks good, but I've never seen them side by side.
Click to expand...

I did a post back in OT7 on why it would stay 30fps this gen, but here's the summary:

Sunk cost of the engine they already had and the research path they had taken.
Non linearly scaling performance, I.E. getting 2x higher perf is not just 2x harder,
especially due to things like their deferred rendering. It does give a lot of breathing room for artists, though.
(COD still uses a forward renderer)

And for more reasons why it could stay 30fps next gen;

Stable 30fps is acceptable given their target market,
And most importantly,

Blinn's Law.

^Speaking or which, I found it funny how people reacted to Carmack's 30fps tweet when it was making the rounds earlier last month.

Oh well, at least PC games wont be capped.
 
T

Tzeentch

Member
Orochinagis said:
Actually it was fail-safe system to avoid the IA betray their creators but cortana have some human cells in her system so
she lived longer than an average IA.
Click to expand...
Unless they've retconned Halo 4 and the Halo Encyclopedia already this is wrong. Which wouldn't surprise me, especially in the silly new novels. All human AIs in the Halo universe are created by destructively uploading a shadow copy of a donor human brain. Cortana is unique in that Halsey created a clone of herself to destroy (and with Halo 4 it's revealed that Halsey herself may be a deus-ex-machina).

Rampancy isn't described very well, but presumably it's related to the fact they are effectively black box agents and the copy process is fundamentally flawed at some level, so that as they develop they just keep multiplying the original errors until they can no longer function. Cortana explains this in Halo 4 and the canon explanation of Rampancy is also in the Encyclopedia (p. 221 of first printing). Note that a lifespan isn't stated in the Encyclopedia, only the allusion that some conditions make an AI more susceptible to it.

Edit: Hmm just realized that the obvious connection between how humans create AI and the Composer is interesting, but probably totally unintentional on 343s part.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
So that Kotaku article about montage makers and competitive gamers came out a few days ago. http://kotaku.com/5972426/misunderstood-bro-culture-and-their-obnoxious-first-person-shooter-youtube-videos It mentions and links to my montage so I thought that I would give a response to the article and link it to the author. Here it is:

You press play. A homemade logo or two pop up—maybe a clan, or a made-up studio. You notice the name of the player—tons of X's, maybe a 420 reference, and the rest seems incomprehensible. That's when the top 40 song begins. Then, it happens: a man dies. Cause of death? Headshot, intentionally timed to connect when the bass dropped (if the song happens to be dubstep.) We're watching an earnest kill montage video of a popular shooter, likely from an MLG hopeful.

You might wonder what the 'deal' with these videos are. I feel as if people outside competitive first person shooter culture watch these videos with a sense of amusement, thinking it's cute that earnest boys want to glorify their silly in-game exploits. This would explain the rise of parody videos making fun of the sincere montages: most famously, we have a series of simulator montages—Train Simulator, Woodcutter Simulator—that are ‘enhanced' with frenetic editing, obnoxious music, and crazy (if not unnecessary) effects.

On the surface, they're meant to be parodies that mock the real videos. The parody videos reveal a deeper truth though: a sense of elitism that looks down on the culture that would create the unironic montage video. A culture that I fear is highly misunderstood.
Click to expand...

So right off the bat I would have to agree with the author, Patricia Hernandez. Being the creator of the "sincere montage" in the article(I appreciate the compliment), I see it first hand. I remember when I showed the montage to one of my cousins. He's a Halo fan so I was hoping that he could appreciate it. Instead I was met with, "wow you used dubstep Tashi?! I'm so disappointed in you." He said that in a half serious, half joking way but I definitely felt that deep down he actually was disappointed. Which sucked. Not because I needed his approval, but because he couldn't just enjoy the video as a whole. I then went on to argue that the song isn't really dubstep just because it has a couple sections of "wub-wub" while the vast majority of the song is just electronic/dance music. I also saw many comments from people who just muted the video right away and then proceeded to watch the montage. To me, you're not getting the full experience. The music serves a purpose. I don't want to get into the details or why the music is important or even how many hours I actually spent on creating this montage(more than you would imagine for a 4 minute video). I make montages for a few reasons. I'm pretty good at Halo and I think people enjoy watching some really crazy stuff that I pull off in games at times. I also really enjoy video editing. I just get absorbed into making these montages and I think a well timed and edited montage can be really special.

Let's talk about that competitive culture a bit. Who do you picture when you try to imagine someone who'd make a real dubstep kill montage? Three possibilities, I think:

A collar-popping-bro with a creed as sophisticated as YOLO.
A thuggish young man, likely a minority, who loves hip hop so much they not only dress like their favorite rap stars, they feel a need to subject everyone in the multiplayer lobby to their favorite diss or conquest song.
A young, annoying prepubescent boy that's way too young to be playing a game like Call of Duty/Halo/etc in the first place. Not that that stops them from trying to prove they can play and talk like the big boys.

EDIT: For the record, I am identifying perceptions and stereotypes. I KNOW they're effed up and unfair, especially since I am often the one that people pass judgement on because I like shooters, happen to be a minority, and like hip hop and rap. And people like to think that these things are always related, even though they're not.
Click to expand...

So I think here she's almost assuming what the readers automatically think about when they picture, "someone who'd make a real dubstep kill montage". So basically me, right? I can definitely say that those 3 stereotypes exist but I'm not sure that that's all people think about when they think about the person I might be (as the montage maker/competitive gamer)
How many Kotaku readers read those 3 stereotypes and thought, "Yes, those are the type of people that they are" Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe there is no hope. In my opinion, the people who edit/create montages and play competitively are hardcore gamers not unlike those passing judgement. I really don't think the average CoD/Halo player (YOLO Bro, Hip Hop Thug & Young boy) is invested in making montages. I've got a pretty high end PC that I built, with a pretty expensive capture card and I probably spent more time putting that montage together than I did playing Halo at that event. And just to note the origin of that particular montage, I was invited by 343 Industries to play Halo 4 at the review event in NYC during NY Comic Con weekend. I was very fortunate to even be there let alone have the capability to capture the footage I did on that particular day.

So I would agree that those are some stereo types out but there when you think about it, montage making is nowhere near as accessible as playing the game. That would leave me to believe that the average montage maker, is not the stereotype that some think it is.

What the bro and the hip hop aficionado have in common is that they represent the ‘plebeian' player, the lowest common denominator. They are likely playing on a console. Their entertainment isn't complex (some might accuse it of being stupid), they listen to all the popular songs on the radio—you know, the ones with inexplicable horn sounds inserted at random—they have a constantly-evolving slang arising from the streets or trending hashtags, and despite their socioeconomic status (as if elitism can exist without considering class!) they are the brute force behind the rise and proliferation of the shooter genre.

And yet these things aren't enough to ward off all the resentment some of us might feel when we consider how much power these folks command. They are, after all, the secret behind the crazy success of titles like Call of Duty, and through that, they end up dictating a lot of the industry and who it panders to. If the ‘real gamer' has a stereotype though, it doesn't look at all like the horde of players we imagine is playing popular shooters—and we sense that. The popular kids are invading the secret fort.
Click to expand...

So this is where I become a little confused. I'm not sure now if she's talking about the no doubt "bro" and "hip hop aficionado's" that exist and what SHE thinks they actually are, (playing on a console, listens to popular radio and so on) or if this is a continuation of what other misconceptions and stereotypes are out there.
"And yet these things aren't enough to ward off all the resentment some of us might feel when we consider how much power these folks command". Another interesting sentence. Now, she's referring the people who pass judgement on what she believes to be the stereotypical montage maker, competitive gamer. Their, jealousy in a way, because CoD sells 15 million units every year and maybe their favorite game doesn't even chart on NPD. And also the effects that it ultimately has on publishers, developers and the industry on the whole. "The popular kids are invading the secret fort" They feel threatened in a way. Ok, I can see how that point of view exists. I know I've certainly felt that way about games. As a close follower of sales and trends in the gaming industry, there are certainly games that sell more than I anticipated and it just boggles my mind.

What of the little boy? Well, he wants to become just like either of the two stereotypes I initially presented. That would be the ‘cool' thing to do.

A boy trying to act tough. Related video on almost all parody montages!

They're also all guys. This is important. The culture that creates videos like this is a boys club where the means of empowerment come through proving oneself in 1 vs 1 battles watched by onlookers who spectate either in-game or later in YouTube videos. Almost all situations culminate in this important showdown—the lobby smack talk, a leaderboard fiend who has to defend his rank or K/D ratio, or testing if the results of a previous match are a fluke. Walk the walk, boy.

A 1 vs 1 in Call of Duty is the modern equivalent of jousting, only with none of the public recognition. When we make fun of the montage video, it's an emasculating thing—because to the creator, it's like a testament to prowess and virility, as manifested in a digital age.

It's a very public thing, too. I'm not just talking about the eventual videos of victories or documenting the 1 vs 1. If noted figures fall, it's not uncommon for the victor to hurry to send a message to all friends on Xbox Live announcing the triumph. They tend to read/sound a bit like this (yes, all caps):

MESSAGE TO ALL FRIENDS. I, [INSERT NAME HERE/CLAN] HAVE DEFEATED THE [INSERT NAME HERE/CLAN.] THEY'RE GARBAGE. TRY HARD BAD KIDS. THEY AIN'T SHIT. DON'T GET INTIMIDATED BY THEIR STATS.

Alternatively, the defeat message will probably say something about using modded controllers, hacks, or anything that might discredit a clean win.
Click to expand...

Ok, so I guess more talk of what the stereotype is.

Now some of the stuff mentioned here, I'm certainly guilty of. I've done my fair share of trash talking over the years (definitely way more in the early Halo 2 days) but I think a lot of it is just a product of how competitive these games could be. And I don't believe this is unique to the stereotypical CoD/Halo player. You see it across all competitive games and anything competitive really. The perception others have of me, just as a competitive gamer is different than what I feel the perception I have of the "bro, hip hop gamer and little boy" I've talked smack because I enjoy playing competitively. I love matching against similarly skilled and even better players and testing my skills. It's where I have the most fun when I play multiplayer games online. I'm not sure if Patricia understands the difference and just didn't mention it. Trash talking is present everywhere in culture.

Underneath all this is the ‘true' competitive scene, the lucky few that have the skills to be a part of Major League Gaming (the leading community for competitive gaming)—along with, hopefully, fame and riches. This is the ultimate aspiration within the scene that takes montage videos seriously. They'll get a GameBattles account, a place where skirmishes against others can be centralized thanks to tournaments ("the closest thing to Pro-Circuit competition") and internal ladders (which, if you note, has not a single woman on it in the upper echelons.)

Even if you never take things seriously enough to ‘go all the way' with GameBattles, it's not uncommon to have informal structure mimicking that scene. I can't count the number of pseudo ‘clans' my friends and I participated in, with ranks, titles, leaders, training sessions, recruitment efforts, and so on. If you were ‘for real' you'd be expected to change your gamertag to something clan-related: the group I rolled with were The Saints, so it would be something like "Saint Santana" or "Saint Blaze," etc.

There is a leader, along with those who would command in his place were he absent. There is an internal list of who would participate in a team battle. If playing outside serious matches, groups will be formed depending on skill—think J.V team versus varsity team. The better players were expected to teach the worse players how to ‘handle' better during practices. And if we saw someone good in a match? Start the evangelization, especially if they don't have a clan tag or a clan-related gamertag.
Click to expand...

I don't really know how this section fits with the article. I certainly know the clans that she's talking about but when she says, "pseudo" I'm not sure if she's talking about real clans and she just considers them to be "pseudo" or if she is talking about made up clans? I'm not sure who's talking anymore. Maybe the progression and continual "legitimization" of E-Sports and competitive gaming and my interest in it is not letting me see exactly what Patricia was trying to get at.

Either way, the influence of the MLG scene can't be understated, both in shaping how the multiplayer is developed, and how many players socialize on shooters.

What's fascinating to me about this is the ‘real' GameBattles has essentially gamified masculinity by awarding points on matches. "It is based on a mathematical formula that calculates the difference between the individuals in the match," the website boasts. There is a better man here, and we've got the math to prove it.

To make this truly modern, the ranks are updated in real-time. Immediate proof of your capabilities. And then these achievements are further embellished when a player cuts to all the juicy bits in a montage video. Or, alternatively, to cover up how bad a player might be—you don't see all the deaths or the time it actually took to put together even a short montage video.

The culture is more complex than most people realize—most of this is coming from someone who never fully participated, despite being constantly surrounded by it all. When I see a montage video, I see much more than the dubstep and the silly drug references.... not that that makes it any less funny at times, I admit.
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly sure why Patricia finds the Gamebattles ranking system so fascinating. Considering there are many ladders and tournaments are pay to enter and have payouts for the winners, it's important to see the ranks. Also, I've heard of several occasions where top ranked teams and players on Gamebattles were offered sponsorships to compete in the live events. It's more than just a measure of masculinity even though that no doubt exists for many.

The article is certainly and interesting read and I'm curious to know where the inspiration came from for Patricia to write about it. Just my thoughts as the guy whose montage was linked in the article. Again, I appreciate the compliment on it.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Forge remakes (The Pit) should be in MM :[

Maybe rotate two different ones each week and the more popular one lives on with a second one rotating in.
Click to expand...

I'm waiting to get approved to the Community Cartographers and if remakes are allowed I will fight for the all the great ones.
 
C

Computron

Member
Tashi said:
[Tashi-Bro-Montage-Maker snip]
Click to expand...

Tashi, your new avatar just came in:

irfUJbsoFpKLD.png


:p

Don't sweat it. It's Kotaku.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Someone made a Fat Kid gametype (which was not possible before) and made the Alpha Flood 200% bigger. Looks like Nemesis walking around the map lol
 
A

Arnie

Member
The Pit forge remake looks really good.

Now patch in full customisation, in game ranks, and allow MLG to introduce a playlist that makes the game fun again.
 
R

Reagan's BR

Banned
BlueScrote said:
Yeah, it's not like different teams of people work on different projects or anything.
Click to expand...

Different "teams"...well that is the truth, if by teams you mean companies.


We still don't even having working fileshare. I don't even know if it will get fixed. This game has been out for two months. 343 has no excuse.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Tashi said:
Now some of the stuff mentioned here, I'm certainly guilty of. I've done my fair share of trash talking over the years (definitely way more in the early Halo 2 days) but I think a lot of it is just a product of how competitive these games could be. And I don't believe this is unique to the stereotypical CoD/Halo player. You see it across all competitive games and anything competitive really. The perception others have of me, just as a competitive gamer is different than what I feel the perception I have of the "bro, hip hop gamer and little boy" I've talked smack because I enjoy playing competitively. I love matching against similarly skilled and even better players and testing my skills. It's where I have the most fun when I play multiplayer games online. I'm not sure if Patricia understands the difference and just didn't mention it. Trash talking is present everywhere in culture.
Click to expand...

That depends. Certain fighting game players will defend their right to "trash talk" all they want, but some of them confuse their childish insults, 16-18 years ago when everyone was playing Street Fighter II, with some kind of sacred cultural practice. It's not. They're just throwing slurs at each other. Honestly, the proliferation of "scrub" and "salty" among fighting games is kind of a blessing, and pretty damn funny compared to people calling each other "bitch" all the time. This is actually a pretty big point of contention in fighting games, and it doesn't even make sense when people try to justify it. Japan is pretty damn big into fighting games, and while their restraint is definitely influenced by the difference in cultures, they don't need people yelling "rape that bitch" to foster competition.
And competition doesn't have to involve trash talking. I've played a ton of TF2, and the people who talk trash are generally rude, obnoxious, and of little note as far as skill goes. When a 6v6 player from one of the best teams in the world shows up in a public server, they barely say a word. The TF2 OT has played in 2 Highlander seasons and we haven't seen any trash talk at all. And frankly it makes the game better. I don't really care if trash talking is "present everywhere," because that doesn't make it any less of a detrimental nuisance.

Tashi said:
I'm not exactly sure why Patricia finds the Gamebattles ranking system so fascinating. Considering there are many ladders and tournaments are pay to enter and have payouts for the winners, it's important to see the ranks. Also, I've heard of several occasions where top ranked teams and players on Gamebattles were offered sponsorships to compete in the live events. It's more than just a measure of masculinity even though that no doubt exists for many.
Click to expand...

Don't you know, competition is an exclusively-masculine inclination. Kotaku, everybody!
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
That depends. Certain fighting game players will defend their right to "trash talk" all they want, but some of them confuse their childish insults, 16-18 years ago when everyone was playing Street Fighter II, with some kind of sacred cultural practice. It's not. They're just throwing slurs at each other. Honestly, the proliferation of "scrub" and "salty" among fighting games is kind of a blessing, and pretty damn funny compared to people calling each other "bitch" all the time. This is actually a pretty big point of contention in fighting games, and it doesn't even make sense when people try to justify it. Japan is pretty damn big into fighting games, and while their restraint is definitely influenced by the difference in cultures, they don't need people yelling "rape that bitch" to foster competition.
And competition doesn't have to involve trash talking. I've played a ton of TF2, and the people who talk trash are generally rude, obnoxious, and of little note as far as skill goes. When a 6v6 player from one of the best teams in the world shows up in a public server, they barely say a word. The TF2 OT has played in 2 Highlander seasons and we haven't seen any trash talk at all. And frankly it makes the game better. I don't really care if trash talking is "present everywhere," because that doesn't make it any less of a detrimental nuisance.



Don't you know, competition is an exclusively-masculine inclination. Kotaku, everybody!
Click to expand...

Fair enough. However, I was merely stating the idea that trash talking is not unique to competitive bros on CoD. I haven't played much TF2 at all so I don't know what that environment is really like.
 
C

Computron

Member
I tried adding a #YOLO gold chain around your popped collars and moving your picture up but that didn't work out quite as well as I hoped.

#Whatevs

#SWAG#SWAG#SWAG

Also, Eh, those shades were bugging me, being a little lopsided, so:

in83hjWDRARov.png
 
H

Homeboyd

Member
Raising a puppy... tired.

Haven't played in a month... need to jump back in. What you fine ladies and gents playing these days?
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Overdoziz said:
Should've spenned 800 pounds on English classes instead of Halo.
Click to expand...

Fixed

IHaveIce said:
depends.

SsethTzeentach seems like he is doing good, but maybe he has just millions of accounts lol.
Click to expand...

Just wondering. I think I read something like an article called "Why we get banned from video games" and it said some pro was banned for a year or something for trash talking, which means he wont be able to make money as he was previously. It was kind of interesting. Said they dont want to foster a community with negative attitudes in it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

For its 20th anniversary, Halo 2's infamous E3 2003 demo that never made it into the final game is coming to Halo: MCC
News Platform
38
3K
Panajev2001a replied
Halo Infinite 2 Was in Development with the Slipspace Engine Before the Switch to Unreal Engine 5
Rumor
15
858
Bumblebeetuna replied
Xbox announces that future Halo games will be developed on Unreal Engine 5
4 5 6 7 8
369
13K
King Dazzar replied
Rumor: 343 Industries Will Only Supervise Development of Future Halo Games
Rumor Platform 2 3
104
7K
StreetsofBeige replied
Anyone else obsessed with any old game? Me personally can't stop playing Halo 3
Opinion 2
88
3K
-BLITZ- replied
Top Bottom