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[kylej]

PogChamp BrainSlug ResidentSleeper

 

[JHall]

38,000 Siggy fans in the chat.

Dis gonna b gud

 

[BlueScrote]

Great OP, Over. I felt weird typing that.

Time to christen my first post in the new OT with a rant.


Active Roster, or how breaking down and reassembling without respecting basics does not work.

Reach’s implementation of Active Roster was elegant and added something substantial to the game; it made the social aspect easier and more accessible. The feature was so well thought out and done, that it is surprising that Halo 4’s version is so fractured and cumbersome. Instead of building on top of a feature that was already top notch, it was digressed into something that is more of an afterthought. It also begs the questions why it was broken down and reworked, but missed every essence of what made the Active Roster so great.

In Reach it is part of the UI, it is an integrated and non-intrusive. Which is Bungie’s strength, they add things that are extremely useful but do not make a big deal out of it. It is often forward thinking ideas that become staple features people expect going forth. The basic functions of the Active Roster is to see who is playing, what mode they are playing and what parties they might be in. Then it has sub functions such as getting into queue to join somebody, inform you on how long it is going to take, inform others that people are joining the party, make somebody party leader, take parties with you and much more. All of it works, with minimal hassle. When you lay it all out and analyze it, you notice how well it is integrated and how much of it is based around functionality.

Halo 4’s revision delegates the Active Roster to the X button. That might sound like the most useless complaint, but burying things under other menus really isn’t smart or elegant. It is not part of the overall UI and thus feels like more of section then a well integrated feature. You could argue both ways about that though, so it’s more a personal thing in the end. Outside of that, the Active Roster in gives information on what SR rank players are and what they are doing in-game. However the rest of the functions that Reach had are not there or broken to certain extent. Joining other people is cumbersome and for some reason I am not joinable and neither are my friends. When I do get into a party, I either get dropped for no apparent reason or I just can’t connect or the whole party gets dropped altogether. I now actively avoid using this function because of its random “will it work or won’t it” stance.

You might be wondering why I’m so focused on the Active Roster, it’s not like it is a core part of the actual game. You’re right, but there is something to be learned from the implementation of Active Roster; it’s based around seemingly the same ideology the whole game was built upon. From analyzing it, it seems they broke down everything in parts and tried to find the core of it. From there they tried to reassemble it and add their own input. The problem with this way of thinking is that logic is a huge part of why certain thing work. In a way a lot of elements, that at first glance do not actually fit in the overall core of the game, make the core game. One cannot prosper without the other if removed, you could say. Those elements feel lost now or have been moved or replace in places where it makes no sense. What makes it even more annoying in case of the Active Roster is that the first version was so perfect.

It’s not the notion of “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” though, but at the same time there is a reason why certain elements were put in place. Removing or reworking them won’t help. Looking at it and analyzing why it works or doesn’t is the way to go, rebuilding it while at the same time adding more problems will not solve or evolve it. We are left with annoying elements we had for years and a whole new batch of new problems. Bungie was hugely criticized for their stance “Cut fast, cut early”, but in hindsight they were right; built something that works, is logical for most part and polish what you have. Adding elements that are half baked adds nothing. Like I said earlier, the ideology is prevalent all over the game; from the menus to the broken down perk system (staple Halo elements are now delegated to perks) to the load-out system.

I know that every iteration has to have that new car smell thing, games have to sell and regular people are not impressed with small technical additions compared to hardcore fans. At the core, as any multiplayer FPS developer, is to retain a solid playerbase that comes back to play the game; it is understandable that more successful titles are looked upon for ideas to do that. The problem is that not the essence of those ideas are taken, but literally the fluff. Combined with breaking the game down, this obliterates well thought out systems and substitutes them with things that contradict respected systems that worked fine. Do they need a overhaul? Yes. Does this need to be done at cost of well respected fundamentals? No. Like I said before, built upon exiting crucial elements instead of reworking it.

Enough pointing the finger. My opinion on how to approach Halo is to look at fundamentals, such as gameplay, social and content. For most part gameplay was nailed, the core of it feels right but has its own unique feel to it. Let’s say you’re building the next Halo, might I suggest that instead of breaking down the Halo sandbox, break down other games main strengths. Older Halo’s should be looked at of course, but for sake of the new care smell sell look at the other games. For example League of Legends and Starcraft 2, what do people like about it? What makes them keep replaying it? Avoid looking at the fluff. A lot of people would answer (Ok, hardcore fans more so): 60 FPS, ranks, spectator mode, developer support, good UI and more.

The above sounds like a wish list doesn’t it? Well, yes and no. It is impossible to get 60 fps on current generation hardware without making tradeoffs (hopefully next generation it is possible, but even then it’s understandable), however what people do appreciate is a rock solid framerate; it helps the experience and user satisfaction. Spectator mode is nice to have, but there are some things that can be done with the mode. Imagine it becoming a lobby for people to discuss while watching a match, add voting polls, export matches and more to make it more social. Challenges and stats could be intergraded into Active Roster. I could go on and on about player support adding much to the experience. Something that every developer should strive for and not be contempt with the basics. There are other ways to entice new players, without having to break down a perfectly unique game and it’s elements.

Besides getting core fundamentals from other games and learning from them, go back and look at what made Halo’s great, respects the elements that gelled so well and built on top of that. Breaking it down has not helped it at all.

tl; dr I basically go on a rant about not respecting core fundamentals for the sake of the new car smell effect every new iteration has to have to sell.

Excellent analysis. Does H4 have kinect support in some format or another? I wonder if the UI was designed with kinect in mind but those features got cut due to time constraints and they didn't have time to reorganize the multiplayer UI.

 

[kylej]

12.7

 

[Overdoziz]

ლ(ಠ益ಠ&#4314 But at what cost?

 

[MrGreencastle]

Excellent analysis. Does H4 have kinect support in some format or another? I wonder if the UI was designed with kinect in mind but those features got cut due to time constraints and they didn't have time to reorganize the multiplayer UI.

That actually makes sense. The UI definitely looks Kinect-centric what with the tiles, etc. Speculation, anyway.

 

[The Librarian]

I have not read the article yet but do you know the criteria? I think the games are not the only factor for the ranking.

The criteria is vague and quite hard to rank, so I defaulted to looking at the kinds of games they make. "Let's opt for wowing players with scripted events instead of gameplay elements."

I think we can give them credit for their focus on excellent character development and graphics, besides those two, yeah they don't have much going for them.

Good writeup by the way.

Bungie would be #7.

Better than Bungie being at Number #1.

...

Good job with the OP, Over. That Halo 2 montage you linked to ended with Land Before Time music. I approve.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

PogChamp BrainSlug ResidentSleeper

I tuned in more out of curiosity to see what the dude looks like, but man it must be so boring speedrunning a game in the same way every time. Its clear he is just going through the motions at this stage.

This whole thing in general is amazing though, its crazy how much money they have rolling in for charity, awesome.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Some are better than others. They are not the best books to read. Regardless, you should read something; there are a ton of great books out there.

That's how I feel about a lot of stuff. In the end at least you're reading a novel. People just don't read (literature) enough these days.

I think we can give them credit for their focus on excellent character development and graphics, besides those two, yeah they don't have much going for them.

Uncharted 2 really bothered me (it's the only game in the series I've played.) I reach the end, and evil Eastern European warlord asks me (Drake) "are you really better than me? How many have you killed getting here?"

And you know what? He's right. They've got a stat right there in the game that by that playthrough I'd killed upwards of 450 of his henchmen in a matter of a week or two, story-wise. That's more than he probably ever personally killed in his life. The fact that players mow down enemies throughout the game but when we get to a cinematic are afraid of a wee popgun really bothers me, and it's one of the few games I can say where that discontinuity really hurt the game in my eyes.

 

[The Librarian]

That's how I feel about a lot of stuff. In the end at least you're reading a novel. People just don't read (literature) enough these days.

This, which I got for Christmas, will keep me busy until Silentium roles around. Very enjoyable so far. Before that I read and finished this. Been on a bit of a nonfiction binge lately.

 

[The Henery]

And. Here. We. Go!

 

[Rickenslacker]

Aaaand it's over.

edit: 12.6

 

[The Real Napsta]

thank you over for a respectful and responsible OT. great job too.

Halo threads: serious business.

 

[JHall]

12.6

 

[kylej]

12.6

 

[Omni]

12.6??

 

[reggie]

.

 

[TheOddOne]

Excellent analysis. Does H4 have kinect support in some format or another? I wonder if the UI was designed with kinect in mind but those features got cut due to time constraints and they didn't have time to reorganize the multiplayer UI.

Personally, I believe that the way the menus have been designed in Halo 4 have to do with Microsoft’s SmartGlass initiative more so then Kinect (Voice commands do make sense though). On iOS and Ipad devices the menus make sense, it is easy to navigate and the touch sensibility works. You could easily set up everything on a iOS device and switch over to the controller to actually play the game. On one hand it’s understandable that they tried to have this unified cohesive look to it all, so people don’t get confused but on the other hand they created a touch based menu system for a primarily controller based game. How often are people going to whip out their devices to set up everything? Hey look, there is a controller; I wonder what it does! SmartGlass is a novelty at best for Halo. Heck, they could have easily done a classic and simplified version of the UI by selecting at the start of the game. Now we are stuck with a more ”dumbed down” version that lost tons of functionality and in the end feels soulless.

Good writeup by the way.

Thank you, madam.

Uncharted 2 really bothered me (it's the only game in the series I've played.) I reach the end, and evil Eastern European warlord asks me (Drake) "are you really better than me? How many have you killed getting here?"

And you know what? He's right. They've got a stat right there in the game that by that playthrough I'd killed upwards of 450 of his henchmen in a matter of a week or two, story-wise. That's more than he probably ever personally killed in his life. The fact that players mow down enemies throughout the game but when we get to a cinematic are afraid of a wee popgun really bothers me, and it's one of the few games I can say where that discontinuity really hurt the game in my eyes.

You should play Spec Ops: The Line. Trust me.

 

[User 73706]

12.6/9.8

 

[u4iX]

I was looking for a link to the GIFs of the girls that the last OT had.

Can anyone help me find those? Thanks.

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Tawpgun]

OP stinks

 

[Tashi]

Pillarless

*faint*

 

[u4iX]

Fox vs. Fox No Items Final Destination.

 

[op_ivy]

Perusing (lurking) the Waypoint forums, I came across some cool things:

This Forge map is bananas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OGumweqWM

It's social-oriented, and it says it's a mod, but it's a cool, large city-like map. Probably one of the largest Forge creations I've seen in a long while. Interesting nonetheless.

i'm running around this now and it is indeed really cool. frame rate, as expected, is shit though. may try to see if removing a lot of the superflorous stuff helps it a bit to make it slightly more playable.

but.. if this is indeed something created through modding, can i get the banhammer for having it saved and/or playing it?

 

[Akai__]

OT looks very nice. Great job Overdoziz!

I was F5'ing the shit out of the OT13 and didn't even notice, that this OT was posted. :lol

 

[Louis Wu]

Three pages late to the party, but I just wanted to say... awesome OP, Over. Two thumbs up.

 

[MrGreencastle]

i'm running around this now and it is indeed really cool. frame rate, as expected, is shit though. may try to see if removing a lot of the superflorous stuff helps it a bit to make it slightly more playable.

but.. if this is indeed something created through modding, can i get the banhammer for having it saved and/or playing it?

I'm not sure, would they ban someone for local play?

There's another map on his file share called Zepherian Vigil that is quite astounding aesthetically. It would play pretty well too, didn't notice many framerate drops. Probably a party gametype like fat kid/sloth.

 

[enzo_gt]

The FUD Gallery?

It's extensive and constantly updated. Will be updated again very shortly.

Yeah, props to to you for curating it! I'm a sucker for concept art, especially the Halo kind.

 

[Dirtbag]

I don't know why Naughty Dog is so high on that list. They don't make games anymore, they make playable movies. cc: Uncharted 2 and 3.

Playable movie won GoTY, so why would this surprise you

 

[Overdoziz]

i'm running around this now and it is indeed really cool. frame rate, as expected, is shit though. may try to see if removing a lot of the superflorous stuff helps it a bit to make it slightly more playable.

but.. if this is indeed something created through modding, can i get the banhammer for having it saved and/or playing it?

Only for putting it on your fileshare.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Holy shit thats sig?


Good job on the Op Over

 

[IHaveIce]

i'm running around this now and it is indeed really cool. frame rate, as expected, is shit though. may try to see if removing a lot of the superflorous stuff helps it a bit to make it slightly more playable.

but.. if this is indeed something created through modding, can i get the banhammer for having it saved and/or playing it?

Wow the map looks really cool.

Shame that the framerate goes to hell

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Hows sig doing time wise?

 

[Moa]

Hows sig doing time wise?

101 stars - 1:31

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

101 stars - 1:31

I meant in relation to his records, never really see it this far

 

[kylej]

Sig's feeling it now

 

[Talents]

Anyone know how to get hold of the Halo 4 MLG maps/gametypes?

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Must be some pressure playing with all the poeple in the room and 50k plus on stream.

 

[Moa]

Anyone know how to get hold of the Halo 4 MLG maps/gametypes?

OGhostayame's File Share

 

[Madness]

I still don't understand the red X thing..you don't want radar to tell you where enemies are, but you want a big red x to tell you where enemies are.

It's different. Having a powerful radar completely changes the way the game is played. Having red X's for deaths is useful to know approximately where your teammate died, which means there are enemies there. Also, in case he had a sniper, shotgun, sword, rockets etc., it means you can try and see if it's there for pickup.

The motion sensor/radar in this game is ridiculously powerful. It has a huge range, which can be increased. There is a perk that gives you radar even while scoped. This means unlike previous games where you had to descope and look around when sniping in case someone is coming, you can just keep shooting without abandon and you'll see anyone come.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Swaggy's back! and YSG is RSG? Times they are a changin.

Great bunch of information noone will ever read Over good work trying really hard on that OP. Can you at least put links to the best posts from the last thread. That people want to see?

 

[kylej]

big daddy Cosmo doing a WW run with full commentary starting soon. we need a halogaf irc channel or something cause i wanna grab a beer and chill and watch this and NFL all day

 

[StalkerUKCG]

big daddy Cosmo doing a WW run with full commentary starting soon. we need a halogaf irc channel or something cause i wanna grab a beer and chill and watch this and NFL all day

How does one host a IRC channel?

I know we had the FUD one but its only used at E3 really

 

[TCKaos]

Doesn't HaloGAF have an IRC? Like, HaloGAF.com?

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I checked HaloGAF didnt see one.

I believe during PAX FuD set one up but I dont see the page link.

Its not hard depending on the server. Some are as easy as going into an uninhabited channel.

 

[Overdoziz]

http://www.forwarduntodawn.com/e3/e3chat/

 

[Reagan's BR]

That's how I feel about a lot of stuff. In the end at least you're reading a novel. People just don't read (literature) enough these days.

Agreed. I'm reading a James Bond novel right now coming off of reading a bunch of philosophy books. Both are good reads in very different ways.

 

[Enfinit]

big daddy Cosmo doing a WW run with full commentary starting soon. we need a halogaf irc channel or something cause i wanna grab a beer and chill and watch this and NFL all day

Like seriously. Watching Cosmo plow through WW is going to be awesome.

 

[JB1981]

Why are the banshees the most piece of fucking shit vehicles to control ?

I'm at Forerunner on Legendary and I want to destroy my controller