I don't even know who's trolling anymore.
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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved
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I don't even know who's trolling anymore.
Orochinagis
Member
rip in peace the arena
there's currently a 4,000 person split between Reach and 4's population
Welcome to Halogaf.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Bloom is in Halo 4 though.
Not even as close to being as bad as it was before, but still, why 343, why?
Rickenslacker
Banned
Outside of the pistol, the bloom in H4 is nothing more than a slight spread that's always been apparent in the series other than I guess Halo 2's laser precise BR.
neoism
Member
Well that had nothing to do with my point, now did it?
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Haha sorry, just read the post you quoted and responded to, thought you were arguing Halo:Reach not being the most consistent Halo Game because of Bloom, so I just found it weird because bloom is in Halo 4 as well.
Just a lot of bad assumptions in my part, my bad.
Reach is a 3 year old game. Its the early morning hours. I rarely ever see anyone play Reach, I dont think that is accurate.
I could be wrong, but I really dont think it is
Steelyuhas
Member
I bought Bioshock tonight and between starting it and starting American Horror Story today I can almost guarantee I'll not sleep until forever.
User 73706
Banned
Can we at least get a hint on how to find it?
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Then what was the point of you guys finding it illegitimately? Lol.
Just reveal what it was instead of trying to keep a little secret club.
neoism
Member
lol was surprised at how much I liked it with BR starts and everything got like 700points
still lost HiredN00bs
Member
You guys are so obtuse sometimes.
You think bloom is inconsistent, but it is a clearly predictable and controllable mechanic for the player. Trajectories are calculated on the client side to reduce network bias. Anyone who complains about bloom being inconsistent is oversimplifying to an extreme.
Additionally, when I mention player movement in regards to bloom and Halo 4, I am clearly referencing the way that the DMR impacts how players can safely move around the map, not walking speed or strafing.
You think bloom is inconsistent, but it is a clearly predictable and controllable mechanic for the player. Trajectories are calculated on the client side to reduce network bias. Anyone who complains about bloom being inconsistent is oversimplifying to an extreme.
Additionally, when I mention player movement in regards to bloom and Halo 4, I am clearly referencing the way that the DMR impacts how players can safely move around the map, not walking speed or strafing.
If you can make a video and pinpoint exactly where the bullets will land when pulling the trigger as fast as possible from across a map, I'll give you that point.
Otherwise, BLOOM IS INCONSISTENT.
Steelyuhas
Member
There's two ways to deal with mystery: uncover it, or eliminate it.
Andrew Ryan hopes you sleep well tonight.
I do not say reach was a terrible fps, but it was a terrible Halo game in my opinion. And this is how it is explained why I'm excited for Destiny ( besides the old Bungie crew is working on it).
But never defend bloom.. really, it is shit.
And Bioshock's look was really good for 2007 and you can lower the visuals for higher fps.
Give me this for Halo
But never defend bloom.. really, it is shit.
And Bioshock's look was really good for 2007 and you can lower the visuals for higher fps.
Give me this for Halo
Rickenslacker
Banned
I don't think bloom is inconsistent, it's consistent in how you have to hope for the best every time. See? Consistent. It's a case of depleting eachother's shields and then trying to get the lucky accurate shot before the other person, and in cases it doesn't matter because even at full bloom you can land a headshot if the game feels like it.
Bloom would work if it gave every shot equal importance in being a precision shot, but because shields absorb damage equally it skews the mechanic to relying on the single finisher shot. So by the time you've both landed your bodyshots you're at full bloom and then just hope for the best because you can get your headshot at any amount of bloom, since it's only truly impacting the one shot the outcome is frustrating and unrewarding.
The concept is fine, but it doesn't work in Halo's setup. If the game had a setup where headshots did more damage regardless of shield amount then it would've turned out differently, but also very unlike Halo.
HiredN00bs
Member
Oversimplifying to an extreme.
Pulling the trigger as fast as possible introduces error that is predictable because you know at all times the size of the cone as it relates to your target as it is visually represented on your screen. You have the power to wait, to risk, to change position, fire two shots, take cover, fire two more, pause for a fraction of a second and deliver a coup de grace...fights were interesting in a different way than previous games because of this mechanic. It made the weapon viable at all ranges but the king of none. My DMR usage in Reach is still around 33%. Compare to the BR in 3 or the DMR in 4.
You're talking about a 1 v 1 where neither player has cover, neither guy misses or dodges a single shot, and they are close enough that they can fire as fast as possible while keeping all of those conditions, in which case they are really fucking close to each other, and the final shot comes down to good aim with smallest chance that the worse aimer gets the kill. That and facing multiple automatic wielders were the only downsides in my opinion, and both are extremely manageable, especially considering all the other benefits that design afforded which are never ever mentioned.
HiredN00bs
Member
but you do agree with me
The DMR in 4 has the slightest bit of bloom, so everyone fires at max speed and the final shot is just random (we've all missed and gotten the kill anyway, and we've all hit the guy dead center of the head and had it whiff). Furthermore, it's nearly impossible to move around Halo 4's huge maps against decent players because the DMR is so potent. A single player can finish you in a couple seconds from across the map, even less with team fire, and with Personal Ordnance, the power ups and power weapons come to you! There is almost no incentive to move around Halo 4 maps because they acquiesced to the majority of the community unintelligently whining about bloom when their frustrations are far more nuanced than that.
Rickenslacker
Banned
It came up enough to be a critical flaw, I mean you didn't have to be at CQC distance to get full bloom bodyshots, the scope let you disregard bloom for that at reasonable distance as well. Maybe there would be some pause in the action as you rescope and whatnot, but you could fairly consistently get multiple shots to break shields without paying bloom any mind, and then it resorted to the sheer randomness of the last shot. I can hold my shot, but will he? Maybe he gets lucky and the shot hits anyway, maybe I should shoot to luck my own instead.
Going beyond 1v1 it also threw a wrench in clutch 1vX plays. You could say it added more importance to teamplay than before which is true, but Halo was more interesting to me when teamplay and individual performance could shine in tandem.
lol yeah I remember I offered a cogent argument and you said something to the effect of "lol didn't read but I disagree" which I can't really fault you for because really how many people in HaloGAF have a lot of experience with multiple deathmatch games at a competent level
You have my offer. I'll give you the argument when you can provide a video that predicts (since it's so predictable!) where my shots will land if I pull the trigger that fast.
HiredN00bs
Member
Did you even play any of these games?
This isn't an argument, man. I could draw you concentric circles on a wall, if you like, in which firing at the center as fast as possible guarantees each shot falls within the subsequently larger circle, but that's one dimension of predictability. Where the circles are and the fact that you can control them with timing, good aim, and your movement all working in tandem are kind of the point of the game.
LOL get shit on
For real though, I don't even remember you back then. I just remember Ram thought I called him stupid or something. Turns out he was actually stupid for thinking I was trying to call him stupid. LOLZ
I played Reach for like two months or something idk I had like 100 hours logged on it?
I sold it then because I remember Bungie was silent about there being any future changes to Arena, which, if you remember correctly, in its initial implementation quite literally forced players to compete against their own team
I didn't (and don't plan to) buy Halo 4 but CE is a really good/unique deathmatch game and Halo 2/3 are passable games
HiredN00bs
Member
Arena also still had Camo and Armor Lock then, if I'm not mistaken.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
no, you're an idiot.
bloom was RNG, which is essentially just like Crits in Team Fortress 2, something they take out for competitive play.
Or tripping, in Brawl. Something that single-handily killed competitive Smash Bros.
They took it out in Reach, and in 4 its 100% cosmetic because the auto-aim is turned up to 11.
Nobody wants randomness or chance in their competitive game. It's stupid.
HiredN00bs
Member
Yeah, I remember it was baffling. Jeremiah came around though, and they made a lot of great moves before the handoff to 343.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Hey now while I agree with the rest of your post let's keep our adult pants on for this.
HiredN00bs
Member
I'm not an idiot. It's nothing like those mechanics. It was completely in the hands of the player. The player could trade off accuracy for speed in a completely predictable way, and the only RNG was a trajectory modifier based on a FUNCTIONAL (that is, derived from a mathematical function or data table) error value determined by your timing, all of which could be mitigated by the quality of your aiming and the pace of your shots. Your comparisons show your understanding to be less than adequate.
And Poker is played competitively.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Right, I forgot. The bloom was so good that when 343 got rid of it, MLG kept using the old version with bloom still in because it was such a skillful mechanic.
Pros never spam shot the DMR and left it up to RNG. Certainly never had headshots go stupid wide or anything like that.
It's gone. Nothing else can be said about it except it was a dumb thing to be in the game so it was removed, nothing else matters. Literally the worst part about Reach.
HiredN00bs
Member
If I recall, there was some debate about what MLG should do with it. And you're still focusing on the negative. The error allowed the weapon to be versatile, effective and fast at close range, workable at mid-range, and slow and methodical at long range. This had the effect of allowing more player movement around maps, as well as giving precedence to the other weapon roles in the sandbox. It made for varied encounters, and was a skill unto itself that worked in tandem with aiming and strafing. MLG might have removed it, but they removed so many things from the game. Reach was a game where every weapon could be a viable option against the DMR at the right range.
Digital Limit
Member
$20 for Mortal Kombat on Xbox Live or I can get the Komplete Edition on Amazon for $16. Am I missing something?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006ZTHGCK/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006ZTHGCK/?tag=neogaf0e-20
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
yeah, they're the authority on what is based on skill and what is based on luck. Definitely more credible than you at least.
when theres money on the line you dont leave in RNG. when there isn't money on the line, you take that crap out anyway because its stupid.
just keep parroting the old pistol argument from CE. 100% of the kills in halo 4 so far are just the DMR, just like 100% of the kills in CE was the pistol. Sure.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Nope, it's just as you see it.
Someone modify this so that Bieber crashes into Requiem, then Requiem crashes into the sun. Thanks.
Digital Limit
Member
Bought and boughtedon Amazon. Thanks, Rick.
HiredN00bs
Member
Oh come off it. MLG doesn't invalidate any of my points. The DMR's design served to balance an entire sandbox of weapons, most of which MLG simply omitted. And again, what to do with bloom was debated amongst that community, it wasn't a foregone conclusion. MLG held most money matches over LAN, does that mean we should all stop playing Xbox LIVE?
I doubt you honestly believe the role the DMR has in 4 is anything like the role that the pistol had in CE. I know I don't.
Your lack of respect and your disingenious arguments are disappointing. I had believed you might grow up and leave these things in the past. You don't have to be a product of your environment.
Oh, beat Dawn on LASO earlier. Yeesh.
I understand the whole "you control the fire rate and accuracy" angle, but the real problem is how someone who spammed the DMR could get the kill on someone who was pacing their shots.
It shouldn't have been able to go anywhere within the circle (allowing a spammed headshot when the reticule was huge over the player's head), it should have been restricted to the outer circle edges. Kinda like this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGItn8JCz0
It shouldn't have been able to go anywhere within the circle (allowing a spammed headshot when the reticule was huge over the player's head), it should have been restricted to the outer circle edges. Kinda like this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGItn8JCz0
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Story mode is top notch. Its not the most competitive fighting game but its solid. If you are a fan of the series and its lore then you will have a great time playing it.
Edit. Twin Snakes if the definitive version of Metal Gear Solid.
Dealwithit.gif
Rickenslacker
Banned
Don't make me take off the adult pants.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Twin Snakes is a laughable joke. Please kids, come on.
Poker Face
Member
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