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[Gui_PT]

thanks for this link earlier GUI shits is getting crazy


MGS3 spoilers
http://www.twitch.tv/threedogg

His MGS2 speedrun strats are ridiculous.

He also kickflips a missile.

Edit. Twin Snakes if the definitive version of Metal Gear Solid.

Dealwithit.gif

Sorry but this is horribly wrong. Not only did they implement gameplay mechanics that simply did not work with that game, but the cutscenes are completely ruined and the voice acting is awful.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Sorry but this is horribly right. Not only did they implement gameplay mechanics that simply have little to no effect on the gameplay, but the cutscenes are complete improved for the better and more in line with the rest of the series and the voice acting is perfectly fine

Fixed that for you.

Opinions how do they work.

 

[Gui_PT]

Fixed that for you.

Opinions how do they work.

Sorry but you cannot be serious.

I know opinions are opinions but this is the 1st time I've actually felt some has a wrong opinion.

 

[FyreWulff]

Hideo wanted the cutscenes like that. The missile jump is the only out-there moment in the entire thing.

When you go from animated puppets to characters actually having faces that can animate, expecting a direct 1:1 port of Metal Gear Solid's cutscenes would have been laughable.

Same reason they redid the animation for the cutscenes in Anniversary. Having mouths be animated like hinges and 90% of biped animations be playback from Joe Staten controlling each character in realtime with KBAM wasn't going to cut it in 2011.

 

[Gui_PT]

Nobody said keep the cutscenes, of course they needed to be changed. But the ninja is completely over the top, the over the door flip, the missile kickflip and many other moments are just ridiculous.

He's constantly flipping or rolling over everything. He doesn't even need to, he just loves doing it.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Sorry but you cannot be serious.

I know opinions are opinions but this is the 1st time I've actually felt some has a wrong opinion.

Deadly serious sorry. You don't like the game that's fine but look at the rest of the series and its much more in line with them. I get that MGS holds nostalgia value for lots of people myself included and TS is not without faults but TS is a solid game and holds up much better than in my opinion than MGS

Nobody said keep the cutscenes, of course they needed to be changed. But the ninja is completely over the top, the over the door flip, the missile kickflip and many other moments are just ridiculous.

He's constantly flipping or rolling over everything. He doesn't even need to, he just loves doing it.

This is what Hideo thinks ninja's are like.

MGS4 Raiden and Vamp

 

[Mace Griffin]

If I recall, there was some debate about what MLG should do with it. And you're still focusing on the negative. The error allowed the weapon to be versatile, effective and fast at close range, workable at mid-range, and slow and methodical at long range. This had the effect of allowing more player movement around maps, as well as giving precedence to the other weapon roles in the sandbox. It made for varied encounters, and was a skill unto itself that worked in tandem with aiming and strafing. MLG might have removed it, but they removed so many things from the game. Reach was a game where every weapon could be a viable option against the DMR at the right range.

All your arguments in favour of DMR bloom in Reach are overcomplicated and not addressing the relevant issue. The key issue is that bloom makes it more likely that a lesser player will win in an encounter against a more skilled player. They have a greater chance because when spamming the DMR the bullets may hit the target or they may not, that is determined largely by luck. It is possible that spamming the trigger results in a 5 shot kill, that is luck, not skill. The smaller the separation in skill between players there is the less skilful the game becomes. Bloom not only allowed for lucky kills it actually helped inaccurate players land shots as even if they were off target some bullets would still land if they spammed the trigger.

It was immediately noticeable when the zero bloom playlist was introduced that the zero bloom DMR was much more skilful because a lot of players that were not accurate were missing shots and not getting lucky hits because the bullets went where they were aimed rather than somewhere within a large circle. The zero bloom DMR required more precise aim and was consistent therefore luck was minimised as much as possible.

I agree that one weapon shouldn't be able to easily dominate all other weapons, the key word is easily. The sniper rifle in theory could dominate any weapon at any range however it is difficult to land headshots and that is what balances the weapon. Bloom in Halo Reach was a very poor method of balancing the weapon. The best way to balance the DMR would have been to reduce the amount of aim assist over a certain range while also making it not a hitscan weapon so shot leading is required. This would make the DMR very difficult to use at longer ranges but still completely consistent and the effectiveness of the weapon would depend on the player's ability. If a player is good enough to land 5 shot kills at long range with minimal aim assist and a weapon that requires leading of shots then they deserve to be able to do that, that is skill.

The most effective weapons in a game should be the most skilful weapons, trying to balance weapons according to their niche ranges should not be more important than the above concept. That is when things go wrong.

 

[kylej]

why are you all arguing with a shitty troll from the IGN message boards. c'mon halogaf.

 

[Havok]

Extraction's up with these gametypes: Extraction 1-Site Small, Extraction 2-Site Small, Extraction 1-Site Large, Extraction 2-Site Large.

Maps are Skyline, Haven, Abandon, Adrift, Complex, Harvest, Landfall, Solace, Longbow, Exile, Meltdown, Monolith.

I don't understand Meltdown or Longbow in a 5v5 playlist, but I guess I can't comment since I haven't played it. I can't imagine 2-Site being anything but totally boring and camp-heavy on maps that big, though.

If someone sees Settler in CTF, I'm curious to know what's changed about it from the on-disc variant, which seemed totally awful when I ran through it at launch.

 

[FyreWulff]

Skyline in a 5v5 list?

 

[Havok]

Skyline in a 5v5 list?

It's been in CTF since Majestic's launch, so 5v5 on it isn't new. I haven't seen it pop up but I'd imagine the spawns are pretty bad with that many players.

Edit: Looks like Team Objective has been stealth updated with all three Majestic maps. Wonder why they didn't say anything about it.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

why are you all arguing with a shitty troll from the IGN message boards. c'mon halogaf.

its more fun to do than play halo

 

[FyreWulff]

It's been in CTF since Majestic's launch, so 5v5 on it isn't new. I haven't seen it pop up but I'd imagine the spawns are pretty bad with that many players.

Edit: Looks like Team Objective has been stealth updated with all three Majestic maps. Wonder why they didn't say anything about it.

It is terrible. Bobs has already been spawned directly on the other team's flag in a game on it.

The map isn't big enough for 5v5. After the first 3 seconds, the spawns in that map are functionally random with that many players.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

It is terrible. Bobs has already been spawned directly on the other team's flag in a game on it.

Tell me that was saved / rendered.

 

[The Henery]

there's currently a 4,000 person split between Reach and 4's population

So sad if true

Right, I forgot. The bloom was so good that when 343 got rid of it, MLG kept using the old version with bloom still in because it was such a skillful mechanic.

Pros never spam shot the DMR and left it up to RNG. Certainly never had headshots go stupid wide or anything like that.

Sometimes one can forget just how horrifying the original 100% bloom was. I actually can't believe MLG even featured the game in that state.

Nobody said keep the cutscenes, of course they needed to be changed. But the ninja is completely over the top, the over the door flip, the missile kickflip and many other moments are just ridiculous.

He's constantly flipping or rolling over everything. He doesn't even need to, he just loves doing it.

Solid Snake cutscenes in TS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2dstOfHwaB8#t=106s

 

[Mace Griffin]

its more fun to do than play halo

Haha, so true.

 

[Tashi]

Twin Snakes is a laughable joke. Please kids, come on.

Dyack hater!

Also, these single gametype playlists continue to reinforce my love for playlists with mixed gametypes. You don't have to settle just to fill a gametype/map combo quota. You just pick what works great and that's it.

 

[Mace Griffin]

why are you all arguing with a shitty troll from the IGN message boards. c'mon halogaf.

I like to think of it as defending the essence of Halo as others may be influenced by his posts. Even though his argument is nonsense it is well disguised with the use of over elaborate irrelevant and/or misguided explanations.

 

[FyreWulff]

Tell me that was saved / rendered.

Nope, forgot to ask him to save it out.

It'll probably happen again to someone soon.

 

[Hydranockz]

I like to think of it as defending the essence of Halo as others may be influenced by his posts. Even though his argument is nonsense it is well disguised with the use of over elaborate irrelevant and/or misguided explanations.

I think misguided explanations exist on both sides.

Hired was correctly stating that bloom was consistent but then heckfu comes along and says it isn't predictable... which is somewhat true but not what hired was saying.

I remember Frankie spent time debunking Ramirez' complaints about the random nature of bloom.

As a mechanic, bloom served a purpose. It lessened long range effectiveness and still remained effective at close range. Spamming at short range is what the design of the system allowed to be effective. You shoot, the circle expands. The reticule still inside the body of the target? Shoot again.

It's not so much random as it is playing the odds on any given shot. That wasn't fun for a lot of people but it doesn't make it a bad mechanic. You can sit here and not enjoy poker for what it is, but the random elements don't make it a bad/worse game.

 

[Karl2177]

You guys are so obtuse sometimes.

You think bloom is inconsistent, but it is a clearly predictable and controllable mechanic for the player. Trajectories are calculated on the client side to reduce network bias. Anyone who complains about bloom being inconsistent is oversimplifying to an extreme.

Additionally, when I mention player movement in regards to bloom and Halo 4, I am clearly referencing the way that the DMR impacts how players can safely move around the map, not walking speed or strafing.

You aren't clearly referencing, and if you think you are being clear you're as misguided as your opinion. And you also never played BTB or have no idea on the DMR did to any BTB map.

I think misguided explanations exist on both sides.

Hired was correctly stating that bloom was consistent but then heckfu comes along and says it isn't predictable... which is somewhat true but not what hired was saying.

I remember Frankie spent time debunking Ramirez' complaints about the random nature of bloom.

As a mechanic, bloom served a purpose. It lessened long range effectiveness and still remained effective at close range. Spamming at short range is what the design of the system allowed to be effective. You shoot, the circle expands. The reticule still inside the body of the target? Shoot again.

It's not so much random as it is playing the odds on any given shot. That wasn't fun for a lot of people but it doesn't make it a bad mechanic. You can sit here and not enjoy poker for what it is, but the random elements don't make it a bad/worse game.

Poker is entirely based off of the randomness. Halo isn't based off of randomness. It's not like the game randomly drops a sniper at you're feet and a Needler at your opponent's feet... Oh god, what have they done to Halo?

 

[BlueScrote]

I think misguided explanations exist on both sides.

Hired was correctly stating that bloom was consistent but then heckfu comes along and says it isn't predictable... which is somewhat true but not what hired was saying.

I remember Frankie spent time debunking Ramirez' complaints about the random nature of bloom.

As a mechanic, bloom served a purpose. It lessened long range effectiveness and still remained effective at close range. Spamming at short range is what the design of the system allowed to be effective. You shoot, the circle expands. The reticule still inside the body of the target? Shoot again.

It's not so much random as it is playing the odds on any given shot. That wasn't fun for a lot of people but it doesn't make it a bad mechanic. You can sit here and not enjoy poker for what it is, but the random elements don't make it a bad/worse game.

Well said.

 

[Booties]

Twin Snakes was great solely because when Snake slides across the floor a car tire screech sound effect if played.

 

[Overdoziz]

That 1 in 10 moment where you are at full bloom and get the headshot anyway. Soooooooo cheap good.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Dyack hater!

I don't blame Dyack for it, but the idea of slapping MGS1 level and encounter design together with MGS2 mechanics is a flawed one.

 

[Booties]

Yeah bloom was pretty terrible at mid-range fights which is what the BR was all about. I get it at long range, especially with how good the scope is, but at mid-range Halo is about who is better than the other. At this most important distance, bloom just made the 4 or 5 shot kill turn into a pretty clumsy encounter.

Oh my god it's not even 9 am?

 

[Hydranockz]

You aren't clearly referencing, and if you think you are being clear you're as misguided as your opinion. And you also never played BTB or have no idea on the DMR did to any BTB map.



Poker is entirely based off of the randomness. Halo isn't based off of randomness. It's not like the game randomly drops a sniper at you're feet and a Needler at your opponent's feet... Oh god, what have they done to Halo?

And, to be fair, it ruined BTB because the first shot was always super accurate. Couple that with a decent team and you have multiple hitscan pings from any distance. The BR's first of there bullets always hit where it was aimed, with each subsequent shot deviating further from the original. This meant that every shot was likely to be just a graze, no matter what the cadence was.

 

[OverHeat]

Any hints as how to get it?

Better then the scarab gun?

What!!!! He found the midnight Easter egg and he do not share it with halogaf....shame on him :s

 

[Havok]

Extraction 1-Site Small on Haven is completely broken. Dunno if the others share this problem.

This is the very beginning of the match, Red spawns on closed ramp which is normal, but Blue...

Two spawned there, one spawned at the pulse grenades.

Other two spawned at that ramp.

The reason? There are no blue initial spawns set for that gametype variant so the game picks neutral spawns. Why it picked two of the absolute worst choices? Who knows.

Also, why is this in Spanish when nothing else is?

Edit: Meltdown 2-Site is not good.

 

[kylej]

Oh my god it's not even 9 am?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Ah it's starting to feel like old times. People arguing about bloom again. I missed this. I'll say what I've always said. I can take it or leave it. It just doesn't bother me one bit. Even with it the game felt like Halo. The only thing I've ever hated is AAs. I even was ok with equipment but AAs broke things too much. In spite of that I still loved Reach. It was a fun game just like halo 1,2,3,ODST.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Yeah bloom was pretty terrible at mid-range fights which is what the BR was all about. I get it at long range, especially with how good the scope is, but at mid-range Halo is about who is better than the other. At this most important distance, bloom just made the 4 or 5 shot kill turn into a pretty clumsy encounter.

Oh my god it's not even 9 am?

I agree with Booties. Look at that.

Spill on the Midnight egg!

 

[IHaveIce]

I just preordered Destiny at my local media store to get the posters (2 versions)
When they asked me for wich console I want to preorder I said "PS4 and the next xbox" totally expecting they will say they can't do anything for the next xbox.
BUT they just said okey and now my copies are reserved for "Playstation 4 and Xbox 2013"

 

[OverHeat]

I just preordered Destiny at my local media store to get the posters (2 versions)
When they asked me for wich console I want to preorder I said "PS4 and the next xbox" totally expecting they will say they can't do anything for the next xbox.
BUT they just said okey and now my copies are reserved for "Playstation 4 and Xbox 2013"

Wow you preorder on the bungie name alone?
I'm waiting on real gameplay ( not 20 sec in game preview)video first.

 

[Hydranockz]

Wow you preorder on the bungie name alone?
I'm waiting on real gameplay ( not 20 sec in game preview)video first.

You can cancel preorders.

 

[IHaveIce]

Wow you preorder on the bungie name alone?
I'm waiting on real gameplay ( not 20 sec in game preview)video first.

No I preordered because I wanted the posters because I liked the concept art.

edit: ^^^and this, thanks Hydra. I also won't get both versions, I will cancel the one copy when I'm 100% sure which next gen console I want to buy first.

 

[OverHeat]

No I preordered because I wanted the posters because I liked the concept art.

edit: ^^^and this, thanks Hydra. I also won't get both versions, I will cancel the one copy when I'm 100% sure which next gen console I want to buy first.

K

 

[Poker Face]

I just preordered Destiny at my local media store to get the posters (2 versions)
When they asked me for wich console I want to preorder I said "PS4 and the next xbox" totally expecting they will say they can't do anything for the next xbox.
BUT they just said okey and now my copies are reserved for "Playstation 4 and Xbox 2013"

Two versions? Is one like the GameStop one?

 

[EagleBurnn]

Thought you guys might be interested in this. Doing a "Pic of the Week" deal in /r/halo. The winner has their pic advertised in the sidebar.
http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/19mztq/pic_of_the_week_thread_where_great_screenshots/

No I preordered because I wanted the posters because I liked the concept art.

I did the same. I need to cancel it though because I won't even live near that GS in 2014. Got my poster though, it's all good.

 

[IHaveIce]

Two versions? Is one like the GameStop one?

Yeah I think so one has the concept art for the Cabal and the other for the Fallen.

 

[TCKaos]

Extraction 1-Site Small on Haven is completely broken. Dunno if the others share this problem.



The reason? There are no blue initial spawns set for that gametype variant so the game picks neutral spawns. Why it picked two of the absolute worst choices? Who knows.

Also, why is this in Spanish when nothing else is?

Edit: Meltdown 2-Site is not good.

Beta tested, GAF approved.

 

[Havok]

If someone sees Settler in CTF, I'm curious to know what's changed about it from the on-disc variant, which seemed totally awful when I ran through it at launch.

I can answer this myself now. Settler is still not good. The same bad Blood Gulch bases, which have line of sight to the other's roof so snipers can just blast people as they spawn. I think the modification they made was to give the neutral sniper a respawn timer, dunno if the other weapons have it.

 

[Striker]

Extraction 2-site is awful. Why does this exist?

Even better, why does Settler CTF exist? Why is Settler in MM? I mean, yes Bungie added Smashed into Ranked Team Slayer for whatever reason, and now this is on equal level of junk. Who thought this would be a great idea?

 

[IHaveIce]

What the hell is Settler? Never heard of that map.

Also wow at the Haven extraction spawns.. why not keep the symmetrical spawns from the other playlists :/

 

[Havok]

What the hell is Settler? Never heard of that map.

Also wow at the Haven extraction spawns.. why not keep the symmetrical spawns from the other playlists :/

The default Ravine map.

The 2-Site Haven spawns are fine, just 1-Site that's busted.

 

[Booties]

I agree with Booties. Look at that.

Spill on the Midnight egg!

Everything's coming up Booties these days. Now you're all starting to get it.

But bloom just didn't work the way they wanted it and was just way too different from halo 3 for people to accept it. I like that it is gone, but they still haven't adjusted the DMR correctly. Maybe they just need to buff the BR and Carbine to make everything seem level. I like the DMR in 4, but it's just easy mode sometimes.

 

[Gui_PT]

They took Mei Ling's asian accent away! Her asian accent!

 

[Toa TAK]

So I can pre-order for the Nextbox now?

Awesome.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Everything's coming up Booties these days. Now you're all starting to get it.

But bloom just didn't work the way they wanted it and was just way too different from halo 3 for people to accept it. I like that it is gone, but they still haven't adjusted the DMR correctly. Maybe they just need to buff the BR and Carbine to make everything seem level. I like the DMR in 4, but it's just easy mode sometimes.

I really love the DMR's handling and feel (and I've always loved single-shot over burst), I just think Ghaleon is right that it wrecks encounters in the campaign (though not to the degree of Reach) and causes issues on BTB maps. I don't think there's any way to solve it definitely that wouldn't be better served by outright removal--an opinion I don't extend to the Boltshot or AAs.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

HaloGAF at PAX East 2013! (http://halogaf.com/pax/)

Who's going? Leave a comment on the page or send me a PM and I'll add you to the list. (I might miss it if you post here on GAF, I've been skipping pages much more often these days.)

We should definitely plan another meetup once the schedule goes live, last year was fun.

Current roster:
DeadNames
lybertyboy
ncsuDuncan
Tawpgun

Anyone else?