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[Omni]

It's probably much smaller than Forge World. I'm just saying that Halo 4 puts a heavier load on the 360 than Reach. Of course, I could be wrong.

Oh yeah, I can understand that.

.

I don't complain about everything. And it's not like it's wrong to share an opinion about something even if it is rather negative. It's why we're here right? To talk about Halo?

You realize the point of that map isn't to play on it like that right? Being as functional as possible and reducing the frills to get the best performance possible would make it the best Forge space possible, even if it doesn't have any tulips sprouting from the ground or whatever.

Of course I do. Eh, next gen reaaaally can't come soon enough. The 360's hardware is sooo fatigued

I guess it's possible that I'm expecting too much... but it's not just in Forge, throughout the game environments seem to be less detailed than Reach or even in Halo 3 in some parts. And as someone who loves looking at the details (I'm a grass and water man in games), it's underwhelming.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Of course I do. Eh, next gen reaaaally can't come soon enough. The 360's hardware is sooo fatigued

I guess it's possible that I'm expecting too much... but it's not just in Forge, throughout the game environments seem to be less detailed than Reach or even in Halo 3 in some parts. And as someone who loves looking at the details (I'm a grass and water man in games), it's underwhelming.

Remember we are only going off of 512MB of RAM. Next gen is giving us 8gigs to work with.
(Hope to god if MS goes with GGDR3 that it is stacked)

 

[Rickenslacker]

Of course I do. Eh, next gen reaaaally can't come soon enough. The 360's hardware is sooo fatigued

I guess it's possible that I'm expecting too much... but it's not just in Forge, throughout the game environments seem to be less detailed than Reach or even in Halo 3 in some parts. And as someone who loves looking at the details (I'm a grass and water man in games), it's underwhelming.

I can sympathize with that. As much praise as the visuals get in Halo 4, the environments have done little to wow me with what I played. Some of the groundwork looks Lord Hood-tier to me, notably in Valhalla and the first half of Requiem in the campaign.

 

[Twilight Gap]

the first half of Requiem in the campaign.

Other than the 2D skybox and glare, I like Requiem a lot visually, especially the beginning. I guess the grass leaves much to be desired though.

 

[FyreWulff]

Remember we are only going off of 512MB of RAM. Next gen is giving us 8gigs to work with.
(Hope to god if MS goes with GGDR3 that it is stacked)

Also 4 player splitscreen support.

4 player split makes a scene that cost 50,000 polygons to draw jump up to 200,000. Keeping the base map as simple as possible also gives it more breathing room for splitscreen performance.

 

[Obscured]

I like the natural terrain, but am glad to see these flat spaces too. I wish Forge in general had a few things done differently and a few additions (mirror objects, more color options, object movement matching smallest increments, interactive elements). It almost seemed as if was recreated from what we had in Halo 3 or Reach as opposed to being built upon those, which makes me hopeful that either future iterations will get to a more sophisticated and flexible level or more can be added to the current version.

 

[Fotos]

So just realized that tomorrow the 25th is Halo 3's 5 1/2 year anniversary.

It's been almost 7 years and this trailer still gives me chills every time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsiKUmyL_hY My favorite video game trailer of all time.

 

[User 73706]

Alright, I think I've narrowed it down to 10 playlists, somehow. This is bringing back a lot of the old gametypes, too.

ARENA

8-Way FFA. Rumble Pit. Slayer / Oddball / King of the Hill / One King
One King works like Juggernaut - if you kill the King, you become the King.

2v2. Team Doubles. Slayer / Oddball / One Flag / Regicide

4v4. Team Slayer*. Slayer / Slayer Classic / Regicide / Ambassador
Slayer Classic simply uses a barebones weapon set.
Ambassador is a Regicide variant. Kills still earn points. However, there are also three plots on the map - Green Plot, Blue Plot, and Red Plot. They all spawn at start and are "locked" after their initial capture. Capturing a plot rewards the team with points equivalent to 5 kills. Only the King can lock down plots. Once a plot is captured, the King and all teammates that were in the plot helping to capture it are rewarded with a respective powerup - Green Plot is Overshield, Blue Plot is Speed Boost, and Red Plot is Damage Boost.

*Note that this playlist is still called "Slayer" because you earn points for kills even in Regicide.

4v4. Team Objective. CTF / One Flag / Assault / One Bomb

4v4. Team Control. Oddball / King of the Hill / Territories / Three Plots

BIG TEAM

16v16. Big Team Slayer.

16v16. Big Team Tactical. Extraction 1 Plot / Extraction 3 Plot / Dominion / Domain
Dominion receives some changes so that it isn't a total power weapon fest like it is now.
Domain is a one-sided variant of Dominion where the Attackers start out in Sudden Death mode and the Defenders start out with all bases captured. When the Attackers manage to retake a base, it's permanent.

16v16. Invasion. Invasion / Invasion CTF / Dreadploughts / Lich King
All Invasion games are two rounds except for Lich King.
Invasion is Spartan vs Spartan. Rather than have the ridiculous weapon escalation of the past, TIER 1 is Pistol starts, TIER 2 are your custom loadouts, and TIER 3 uses a Phase Rifle primary (think DMR) with your secondary being whatever your main custom loadout weapon is per loadout (so either BR/Carbine/Light Rifle). Tier 1 is capturing a hill, Tier 2 is capturing a hill, Tier 3 is Capture the Core.
Invasion CTF Uses the same properties, and is essentially three-stage One Flag. The Attackers spawn next to a Core, which they must take to Point 1. After dropping the Core off, the Attackers pick up a second Core which they must take to Point 2, and the cycle repeats for the final Core.
Dreadploughts or Dread Plots is also one-sided and works like Three Plots. The Defenders spawn in an airborne Lich, which has a tractor beam allowing for infantry access. The Lich will use its main cannons on one vehicle at a time, meaning a concentrated effort is required to attack it. Damaging the Core of the Lich will not destroy it, but will disable the cannons. The Attackers must attempt to capture the first Plot, at which point the Lich will move to a second location, Plot 2 will spawn inside of it, and Tier 2 begins. Likewise for Tier 3. On Tier 3, Desecration plays. If the Attackers win, the Lich explodes.
Lich King is a bit like Crazy King. A neutral Lich spawns in the center of the map with a hill inside, and both teams will attempt to control the hill. Once that hill runs out of time, the Lich moves to the next location and Hill 2 spawns. This can use up to 7 hills.

16v16. Safe Havens.
Safe Havens is a class-based Infection variant mixed with Dominion elements. Humans have a few basic classes and must attempt to fortify bases for defense, while the Infected have 5 classes to choose from and must convert humans.

TL;DR

ARENA
8-Way FFA. Rumble Pit. Slayer / Oddball / King of the Hill / One King
2v2. Team Doubles. Slayer / Oddball / One Flag / Regicide
4v4. Team Slayer*. Slayer / Slayer Classic / Regicide / Ambassador
4v4. Team Objective. CTF / One Flag / Assault / One Bomb
4v4. Team Control. Oddball / King of the Hill / Territories / Three Plots

BIG TEAM
16v16. Big Team Slayer.
16v16. Big Team Tactical. Extraction 1 Plot / Extraction 3 Plot / Dominion / Domain
16v16. Invasion. Invasion / Invasion CTF / Dreadploughts / Lich King
16v16. Safe Havens.

The 10th playlist is a rotating variable. While it can be used to promote things like SWAT or Grifball or Action Sack, it will generally be used for DLC promotion or corporate whoring like the Infinity Challenge. The 10th playlist is always Double EXP.

To fill the niche of some of the fun lists like Action Sack, dedicated servers could be an option, with 343 having some "Official Servers" for the more common requests like Team Snipers. While dedicated server playlists would still provide you with equivalent EXP, the main 9 playlists would be ranked, giving some incentive to play "officially" rather than just stick to the server browser.

 

[Doogington]

Did I miss it or does anyone know... if the soft kill zones aren't way above the water? If so... how can you be so fucking bad, 343? If not, swell- you guys are listening.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Also 4 player splitscreen support.

4 player split makes a scene that cost 50,000 polygons to draw jump up to 200,000. Keeping the base map as simple as possible also gives it more breathing room for splitscreen performance.

Wonder what the community reaction would be if they dropped split-screen from Halo.

Also IIRC a lot of Forge maps in Halo: Reach MatchMaking HAD to support 4 player split screen or else they were not allowed to be put in.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Wonder what the community reaction would be if they dropped split-screen from Halo.

Also IIRC a lot of Forge maps in Halo: Reach MatchMaking HAD to support 4 player split screen or else they were not allowed to be put in.

Which is ironic because many rarely did. In fact even the default maps didn't

 

[Madness]

It'd be great if forgers could state exactly what they want for next game or next gen and Frankie or Ellis can read it and then take it to their forge team and see if it's feasible.

I keep thinking of instead of a large persistent forge world. Why not have a bunch of blank spaces with different skyboxes to pick from. For example, a large empty space in a covenant cruiser like Corvette and you can use covenant pieces and walkways.

A large empty space in original Valhalla type grass with a Halo ring as a skybox and forerunner pieces.

A nighttime new mombasa space or new alexandria type space where you can use UNSC green or white humanity pieces.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, I don't forge at all but I want forgers to have the tools to make maps that sort of rival those that come with the games. Obviously you can never rival a developer map.

Supposedly the nextbox uses blu ray disc's. I wouldn't mind Halo 5 shipping with multiplayer on a separate 50 gb disc of its own with a new forge that allows terrain editing, possibly different night and day effects.

 

[Twilight Gap]

It'd be great if forgers could state exactly what they want for next game or next gen and Frankie or Ellis can read it and then take it to their forge team and see if it's feasible.

I keep thinking of instead of a large persistent forge world. Why not have a bunch of blank spaces with different skyboxes to pick from. For example, a large empty space in a covenant cruiser like Corvette and you can use covenant pieces and walkways.

A large empty space in original Valhalla type grass with a Halo ring as a skybox and forerunner pieces.

A nighttime new mombasa space or new alexandria type space where you can use UNSC green or white humanity pieces.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, I don't forge at all but I want forgers to have the tools to make maps that sort of rival those that come with the games. Obviously you can never rival a developer map.

Supposedly the nextbox uses blu ray disc's. I wouldn't mind Halo 5 shipping with multiplayer on a separate 50 gb disc of its own with a new forge that allows terrain editing, possibly different night and day effects.

I'd love to see Forge set up like tihs:

-Choose your size (small, medium, large)
-Choose your terrain 1 (snow, grass, sand, rock, marble [mixed], forerunner, city, etc)
-Choose your terrain 2 (mountains, islands, hills, flat, forest, marble, etc)
-Choose your piece palette (forerunner, city, industrial, covenant, etc.)
-Choose your palette skin (weathered, rusted, shiny, damaged, etc.)
-Choose your time of day (dawn, daytime, dusk, night)
-Choose your skybox (covenant cruisers, forerunner towers, frigates, space, mombasa skyline, etc)
-Choose your weather (rain, snow, clear, eerie [fog]). Sliders to adjust harshness.

And then we can go from there. Just imagine making a nighttime rainy noir map in New Mombasa, or a small 4v4 snowy map with forerunner structures. Or a Covenant space station. Or even a forerunner tower in a forest shrouded in mist.

The possibilities and combinations will be endless. Don't waste time making physical maps; give us the pieces - the backdrops, the terrain - and we'll do the rest. THIS it what keeps people playing. THIS is why Halo Custom Edition still has people making maps after 9 years. Focus on this, and let THE COMMUNITY make the DLC.

 

[SHIFTYkiwi]

I'd love to see Forge set up like tihs:

-Choose your size (small, medium, large)
-Choose your terrain (snow, grass, sand, rock, marble [mixed], forerunner, city)
-Choose your piece palette (forerunner, city, industrial, covenant, etc.)
-Choose your palette skin (weathered, rusted, shiny, damaged, etc.)
-Choose your time of day (dawn, daytime, dusk, night)
-Choose your skybox (covenant cruisers, forerunner towers, frigates, space, mombasa skyline, etc)
-Choose your weather (rain, snow, clear, eerie [fog]). Sliders to adjust harshness.

And then we can go from there. Just imagine making a nighttime rainy noir map in New Mombasa, or a small 4v4 snowy map with forerunner structures. Or a Covenant space station.

The possibilities and combinations will be endless. Don't waste time making physical maps; give us the pieces - the backdrops, the terrain - and we'll do the rest.

I just want the ability to import my own textures for forge objects / Or the ability to make custom size objects e.g. a tool similar to a kill boundary where you can change the size and shape and once you have the perfect piece, it becomes a solid block.

Dreams are free.

 

[FyreWulff]

Wonder what the community reaction would be if they dropped split-screen from Halo.

Also IIRC a lot of Forge maps in Halo: Reach MatchMaking HAD to support 4 player split screen or else they were not allowed to be put in.

Early on, yes

Later on they started letting the Cartographers submit 2-split maps and dropped those lists down to 2-local max.

The current solution they're trying for Halo 4 is like Doubles where a developer map shows up in slot 1, so split boxes can vote for it instead of the Forge map. They still have the ability to restrict local max players though.

edit: the best solution I'd still want is adaptive map pools, where the potential map pool changes depending on the box configurations in the game. This would let you potentially use super complex Forge maps if it detects every single player in the game is single-screen, for example, and if a 4-split box is detected, it only selects dev maps and a couple of compatible Forge maps.

 

[TheOddOne]

PAX East Recap: Part 02.

 

[Madness]

PAX East Recap: Part 02.

All I heard from Jess in that video was 'keep on giving it to us'

 

[NobleGundam]

Didact Helm Looking Good

 

[Booshka]

Didact Helm Looking Good

I'd call the Police if I saw a Cat wearing that.

 

[Pop]

All I heard from Jess in that video was 'keep on giving it to us'

O_O

 

[Madness]

O_O

LOL, watch from 2:02...

That aside, I like seeing these types of videos for some reason. Shows the devs as regular folks and fans and not seeing them as a bunch of faceless workers for a greedy corporation.

On an unrelated note, holy hell how pathetic is the new commercial for Gears of War: Judgment? I mean compare it to the MadWorld one back from 2006 and then also compare it to the Bioshock Infinite one out now.

It's literally one minute of random facts and people and then 2 seconds of gameplay and then it shows Xbox 360 is now cheaper or something. I mean what person watching is going to know what the fuck Overrun is, or how hard the Like a Boss Achievement is. All we see is, "its go time baby" and Cole running and then we see the 4 main character for a split second before the Gears logo comes.

 

[CyReN]

Watching the panel, props to the guy that asked about dropping flag/descoping.

 

[Tunavi]

i'm in love with deus ex HR

 

[TheOddOne]

Weapon layouts:

 

[Twilight Gap]

Weapon layouts:

Getting a massive ODST vibe from Perdition. Might consider Castle.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I'm ordering dominos for lunch, Fuck you pizzagaf.

In other news I'm really fucking depressed. I could write 100 posts filled with depressive ranting but instead I'm just going to say "Ugh".

Maps look like typical 343i/CA stuff

Artistically nice but look poor for gameplay

 

[The Henery]

I'm delighted they've kept the forge islands as visually flavourless as possible. Framerate stability should be of paramount importance when handing the canvass to the community, it was absolutely ridiculous that asylum had significant, replicable framerate dips when scoped from snipe through ring 2.

Only thing is, 4v4 maps haven't seemed to be a problem with the existing forge canvasses; simplex, shutout and many of the other maps from the forge playtest played well and without framerate dips. It's BTB maps that really require the exclusively flat terrain as you don't want to be using half your budget just to have an even floor on a large map. So BTB forgers will benefit; unfortunately BTB stinks in Halo 4 because of loadouts and the DMR. That's the main reason I can't get that excited for forge island. Can't really complain when it's free though.

Too bad Ghaleon and Overdoziz don't play Halo 4, they were two of the most vocal (rightly so) in their disappointment that the original canvasses weren't amenable to forging because of their uneven terrain.

 

[FyreWulff]

Overdoziz would rather repeatedly ask questions of 343 employees that show up in twitch streams about things he has the answer to than forge a map these days

Cartographers really can't submit Halo 3 PC questions to matchmaking

 

[Omni]

i'm in love with deus ex HR

That was actually one of the few games this gen that I just couldn't bring myself to finish. Nothing really hooked me in like the one on the original Xbox did

 

[Hypertrooper]

Seriously? That's fucked up:

HALO 4 - Original Soundtrack (Limited/Numbered Special Edition Boxset)
**BUY NOW AND RECEIVE A FREE DOWNLOAD OF VOL 2 ON 4/9!

HALO 4 ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK: SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION BOX SET
The Special Edition is available in a limited quantity, each exclusively numbered.
- Original Soundtrack CD includes 15 Tracks!
- Bonus remix CD includes; DJ Skee & THX, Gui Boratto, Sander Van Doorn & Julian Jordan, Apocalyptica, Caspa and more.
- 180 Gram, 12" Master Chief picture disk vinyl of remixes.
- Making of Halo 4 Music DVD and Book features behind the scenes photos and; footage from the Abbey Road sessions, Neil Davidge's production and composition notes.
- 12”X12” Halo 4 Art Print
- Exclusive Art print of Master Chief signed by Neil Davidge
- PLUS for the first 5000 special edition box sales only, a Halo 4 Avatar download code.

http://www.theomegaorder.com/HALO-4-Original-Soundtrack-Limited-Numbered-Special-Edition-Boxset

I hope it means people who ordered the LE of the OST will get vol 2 for free, too. If not, I am going to be pissed. That's some shady business...

 

[Nebula]

Wow. Are people actually moaning about Forge Island? We can finally get a flat space that we can build maps on without spending half the budget/item limit on a floor! It looks basic as well, which should hopefully give us a better chance of not seeing the FPS dip below 20 like most on disc maps do.

Forge world is excellent news for BTB forgers especially.

 

[Karl2177]

Seriously? That's fucked up:

http://www.theomegaorder.com/HALO-4-Original-Soundtrack-Limited-Numbered-Special-Edition-Boxset

I hope it means people who ordered the LE of the OST will get vol 2 for free, too. If not, I am going to be pissed. That's some shady business...

I'd assume they will just email us the link to The End Records and we get to choose which format to download it in. Very similar to how they delayed the release of the LE, and sent the link to the full download when it became available for everyone else.

 

[gAg CruSh3r]

Wow. Are people actually moaning about Forge Island? We can finally get a flat space that we can build maps on without spending half the budget/item limit on a floor! It looks basic as well, which should hopefully give us a better chance of not seeing the FPS dip below 20 like most on disc maps do.

Forge world is excellent news for BTB forgers especially.

Exactly! At least 343i took some time to make this. Why complain about free?

 

[Fotos]

Does anyone know if the Man Cannons on Monolith were removed for Throwdown v3? They make the map too hectic and i'm pretty sure they are forgeable.

Excited to try out SHIFTYkiwi's and all the other maps in the Forge FFA Playlist tonight. GAF represent!

 

[Shadders]

Seriously? That's fucked up:

http://www.theomegaorder.com/HALO-4-Original-Soundtrack-Limited-Numbered-Special-Edition-Boxset

I hope it means people who ordered the LE of the OST will get vol 2 for free, too. If not, I am going to be pissed. That's some shady business...

I'm told we'll be getting official info on it very soon.

 

[Madness]

Exactly! At least 343i took some time to make this. Why complain about free?

Because unless you complain about everything, you'll be seen as supportive of the changes made to Halo 4, didnt you know that?

I find it ridiculous, that even if you hate Halo 4, you're complaining about a free map, that almost every forger has wanted since Halo:Reach. They've wanted a flat space, that is bare bones.

 

[Havok]

Weapon layouts:

Both teams get a laser? That's how they're justifying the Wraith and Mantis on this map?

No thanks.

 

[squidhands]

Playing catchup. Yay, Forge Island! I've gotta give massive kudos to 343 for listening to what forgers have been asking for, and then throwing it out there for free (the cynical prick in me thinks this was something that just didn't make it in the game in time, but whatever).

Gonna have to read up/watch the PAX panel to see if there's any other MP info.

 

[Blueblur1]

Man, Outcast looks horrible. Never has a Halo map had such an appropriate name.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Man, Outcast looks horrible. Never has a Halo map had such an appropriate name.

Huh, why?

 

[Tawpgun]

Perdition > Daybreak > Outcast from my time with them. Perdition was just so clean and nice. Daybreak plays fine, banshee is balanced (thought BTB is still messy with the loadout issue) but its ALL natural terrain.

Huh, why?

Reasons why I didn't like it is because I could never orient myself. Its like you're in a cave system and it all looks the same. Not to mention my team got hold of the NEUTRAL wraith and mantis and proceeded to dong. It got so bad I had to drive my mantis off the map just so everyone could have fun again

 

[Blueblur1]

Huh, why?

Aesthetically, it looks like a turd canyon (just look at the image in Havok's post). Gameplay wise, it consists of tight routes for vehicles to get pinged by plasma fire and has no landmarks except for the minimal bases. It has got to be the most uninspired Halo map I've ever seen.

 

[lybertyboy]

Playing catchup. Yay, Forge Island! I've gotta give massive kudos to 343 for listening to what forgers have been asking for, and then throwing it out there for free (the cynical prick in me thinks this was something that just didn't make it in the game in time, but whatever).

Gonna have to read up/watch the PAX panel to see if there's any other MP info.

Kynan and Vic made Forge Island post-launch in their spare time as a response to feedback from the Forge community. Definitely wasn't something cut from the release.

 

[Fotos]

Perdition gives me dat Halo 2 feel.

I'm guessing that will probably be ruined by Camo Campers, Ordnance, Plasma Pistol, and AA's.

Halo 4 has the worst BTB out of any Halo. The maps are good though.

 

[The Henery]

New FFA playlist is good. I think Halo 4 does FFA really well actually, especially in the pro variant (which in my experience is voted for a fair bit more than Infinity). I like playing forge maps if they're done well and the all too brief forge play test list remains one of my favourites so far. I wish they'd let them run a little longer, I like having the map pool expanded significantly in one or two playlists.

Play Throwdown, my favourite list because it's BR starts. Discover that the pro settings take two slots, and of course it gets voted for. The playlist is basically going to be a DMR show the whole time like the rest of MM. RIP Throwdown, I barely knew ye.

Oh and that one game was pro Haven and the entire opposite team quit within ten kills whilst one of my teammates was afk near the entire game. Sweet.

 

[FyreWulff]

I noticed they're shaving as many polys out of the scene as they can.

- The islands are shaped like \___/ . This means if you go to the edge and look down, you're less likely to see the rest of the island unless you jetpack out and look back or something, so it'll be occluded out of the view, and not drawn.

- The islands are all spaced far apart (intentionally?) to force them and any Forge objects on them to the lowest LOD, saving framerate and performance.

- The skybox is extremely simple



If you ever go back and look at Forgeworld, you can see all the tricks to keep performance up. The cliffs between the Gulch and the rest of FW occlude the rest of the map so it's not being rendered when you're inside the Gulch. When you're on Pinnacle, Asylum, Paradiso or the Coliseum, you can't see inside the Gulch, saving rendering there. Probably the worst case scenario map you can make is one floating in the air between the Island and Gulch. This would let a 4 player box attempt to render every area in Forge World at once.

 

[squidhands]

Kynan and Vic made Forge Island post-launch in their spare time as a response to feedback from the Forge community. Definitely wasn't something cut from the release.

That's EXTREMELY awesome. I hate being cynical.

 

[Karl2177]

Inspired by the "find your first post" thread, I went back into Reach OT3. I found my first post, found the first HaloGAF customs that I was in, and there was a Ghaleon picture story for the ForgeGAF customs right before. So I went into creeper mode and started going through Ghaleon's Rendered Files. Man, I really really hope that 343 can get video rendering in for Halo 5. I've wasted over an hour just watching insane Firefight moments and films that he rendered for other people.

 

[The Henery]

Inspired by the "find your first post" thread, I went back into Reach OT3. I found my first post, found the first HaloGAF customs that I was in, and there was a Ghaleon picture story for the ForgeGAF customs right before. So I went into creeper mode and started going through Ghaleon's Rendered Files. Man, I really really hope that 343 can get video rendering in for Halo 5. I've wasted over an hour just watching insane Firefight moments and films that he rendered for other people.

Yeah it's really disappointing that they haven't managed to do it for whatever reason. Actually, why haven't we heard about that? They haven't even mooted a far off 'maybe' for video rendering. It's something the community has become accustomed to for the previous two games in the series. A word on it would be nice.

 

[NOKYARD]

Kynan and Vic made Forge Island post-launch in their spare time as a response to feedback from the Forge community. Definitely wasn't something cut from the release.

Vic mentioned he wanted to work with me on something Grifball related but the conversation didn't get much further than an introduction. I guess he rightly focused his efforts on something for the entire forge community rather than the smaller Grifball community.