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Halo |OT16| Oh Bungie, Where Art Thou?
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Poker Face
Member
No one ever really talked shit about my rank. People told me I sucked when I was playing shitty, and told me I was modding when I did well.
Nothing about my rank though
The best we can hope for is this being a test. Hopefully they learn their lesson and give us a solid ranking system in Halo 5 out of the box.
If these people were your friends, a little ribbing once in a while is OK. If it were randoms in matchmaking, the system has obviously failed at matching you with similarly skilled players because 34's wouldn't be making fun of 34's. Having your rank on display should not fuck with your morale as a player.
This was usually the case in my experience as well. Either you're garbage or a dirty cheater. Hardly ever just having a good game.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Your mistake was going to the B.net forums in the first place. It's a cipher to nowhere, just like Waypoint has become.
The one good thing about Bnet was the ability to quickly enter a gamertag and get the info you needed. No signing in, no heavy page loads.
Frankie said he'll talk to the Web team so that's great if it's easier to get extra info on people.
Anyone who makes fun of people for being a lower rank are sort of losers. Not everyone has the time/skill/ability to get 50's in all playlists.
Don't get me wrong, I love good natured ribbing and jostling before/after a match, but those 'get fucked you colonel BK' guys were hilarious.
Frankie said he'll talk to the Web team so that's great if it's easier to get extra info on people.
Anyone who makes fun of people for being a lower rank are sort of losers. Not everyone has the time/skill/ability to get 50's in all playlists.
Don't get me wrong, I love good natured ribbing and jostling before/after a match, but those 'get fucked you colonel BK' guys were hilarious.
Twilight Gap
Member
IMO:
Ranked:
Ranked Slayer | 4v4
Ranked Squad Battle (BTB and Dominion games) | 6v6
Ranked Objective | 4v4
Ranked Doubles | 2v2
Ranked Snipers | 4v4
Ranked SWAT | 4v4
Ranked FFA | 6 players
MLG | 4v4
Rotating Playlist | ???
Unranked:
Team Slayer | 5v5
Big Team Battle | 8v8
Team Objective | 5v5
Rumble Pit |6 players
Multi-Team | 12 players
Team Action Sack | 4v4
Flood | what is it, 11 or 12 players?
Grifball | 4v4
Rotating Playlist | ???
16 playlists split into 2 groups. Ranked playlists have streamlined settings and feature skill ranks. Unranked playlists have looser settings and feature progression ranks. Neither rank is visible in either playlist. Both playlists match based on Trueskill, except it's much more restricted in Ranked. Parties cannot match randoms and randoms cannot match parties in any playlist.
If you want to diminish cheating, hide ranks and other stats until the post-game menu. This way your rank will only show your last performance, and only be visible to you until post game.
There's no reason Action Sack should be ranked, and there's no reason Halo should have not them visible to players. People will cheat for anything until you implement proper deterrents. Put down roach motels instead of getting rid of the food in the house.
Every other game manages just fine.
Ranked:
Ranked Slayer | 4v4
Ranked Squad Battle (BTB and Dominion games) | 6v6
Ranked Objective | 4v4
Ranked Doubles | 2v2
Ranked Snipers | 4v4
Ranked SWAT | 4v4
Ranked FFA | 6 players
MLG | 4v4
Rotating Playlist | ???
Unranked:
Team Slayer | 5v5
Big Team Battle | 8v8
Team Objective | 5v5
Rumble Pit |6 players
Multi-Team | 12 players
Team Action Sack | 4v4
Flood | what is it, 11 or 12 players?
Grifball | 4v4
Rotating Playlist | ???
16 playlists split into 2 groups. Ranked playlists have streamlined settings and feature skill ranks. Unranked playlists have looser settings and feature progression ranks. Neither rank is visible in either playlist. Both playlists match based on Trueskill, except it's much more restricted in Ranked. Parties cannot match randoms and randoms cannot match parties in any playlist.
If you want to diminish cheating, hide ranks and other stats until the post-game menu. This way your rank will only show your last performance, and only be visible to you until post game.
There's no reason Action Sack should be ranked, and there's no reason Halo should have not them visible to players. People will cheat for anything until you implement proper deterrents. Put down roach motels instead of getting rid of the food in the house.
Every other game manages just fine.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Funny thing with CSR is that since there's no separation of playlists with/without ranks, people may either stop playing or not even try certain playlists in fear of being judged if they don't care about winning.
There aren't any playlists to just go in, drive a Warthog and have a good time. Now everything goes towards your rank and there's NO WHERE TO HIDE! Kind of sad because that's how a lot of people play Halo; sandbagging.
Ain't nobody got time for tryhards when 6 lucky Rockets (thanks to Ammo) can drop at anyone's feet.
I meeeaaaannnn. I think picking up this Blizzard guy was a pretty damn good sign for what's to come.
Fuck you are right, didnt even think about this, also no playlist to warm up
Pop
Member
2017 is going to be great
Playlists that would be dead in a month: One of the two Objective playlists (probably ranked), ranked Squad, probably ranked FFA. Halo 3, even with the relatively high player retention it had, could not support two objective or big team playlists, and its ranked Squad Battle attempt was a disaster. Lone Wolves had a decent population, but it was dwarfed by Rumble Pit and I'm not sure it would survive today (see also: FFA Arena's death).
Do you think that people who care about CSR aren't going to know about it? Or that Playlists where you want people to care about it won't because they won't be trying because they don't know about CSR?
I would assume those that care about it are going to be aware of it, but also those jumping into Throwdown or CTF or already going in planning on playing the game and not running repeatedly into a wall throwing grenades at themselves.
The only potential downfall might be what some have expressed here that they might avoid certain playlists because they don't want to see that rank suffer, even if it is a playlist where it shouldn't really matter. For me I don't see an issue, because I've heard people say ridiculously offensive things if you are wearing the wrong helmet or using the wrong weapon or AA (but the jetpack and the AR are just so funny on Abandon), so a bit more abuse because of my 17 in Flood isn't really going to hurt that much. Luckily those people are mostly few and far between except in certain niche areas, most people are actually pretty cool and decent (pour one out for proximity chat).
I don't quite get the too little too late sentiment. I don't think people are going to come back in droves and in general the mindset still exists that how a game was released is how it will stay, but that doesn't mean that 343 should stop attempting to improve the game or continuing support. There was obviously a higher priority on getting new players to feel comfortable and get into MP at release, and now that priority may ever so slightly be moving, that is the theme I've seen taking shape from the changes implemented.
I've mentioned this previously, but I'd like to see some of these more competitive aspects become a priority and teach newer players how to enjoy those aspects of the game instead of removing them. When you guys talk about cleansing it seems your intent is to drive people away from the game (I'm not calling anybody out here, I've seen this since Halo 2 days), seems a better way would get people to understand why that way of playing is better and more fun and bring them into the fold.
I would assume those that care about it are going to be aware of it, but also those jumping into Throwdown or CTF or already going in planning on playing the game and not running repeatedly into a wall throwing grenades at themselves.
The only potential downfall might be what some have expressed here that they might avoid certain playlists because they don't want to see that rank suffer, even if it is a playlist where it shouldn't really matter. For me I don't see an issue, because I've heard people say ridiculously offensive things if you are wearing the wrong helmet or using the wrong weapon or AA (but the jetpack and the AR are just so funny on Abandon), so a bit more abuse because of my 17 in Flood isn't really going to hurt that much. Luckily those people are mostly few and far between except in certain niche areas, most people are actually pretty cool and decent (pour one out for proximity chat).
I don't quite get the too little too late sentiment. I don't think people are going to come back in droves and in general the mindset still exists that how a game was released is how it will stay, but that doesn't mean that 343 should stop attempting to improve the game or continuing support. There was obviously a higher priority on getting new players to feel comfortable and get into MP at release, and now that priority may ever so slightly be moving, that is the theme I've seen taking shape from the changes implemented.
I've mentioned this previously, but I'd like to see some of these more competitive aspects become a priority and teach newer players how to enjoy those aspects of the game instead of removing them. When you guys talk about cleansing it seems your intent is to drive people away from the game (I'm not calling anybody out here, I've seen this since Halo 2 days), seems a better way would get people to understand why that way of playing is better and more fun and bring them into the fold.
Twilight Gap
Member
A player who prefers competitive big team games should be able to rank up in a big team playlist. When the only ranked big team playlist is "Infinity Big Team", it essentially defeats the purpose.
This has been Halo's problem for a while now. All of these superfluous gameplay mechanics either force playlist redundancy or create an environment where you are forced to compete with them.
There are people who want just want to play FFA and they don't care for hardcore maps or settings. There are also those who want to play on the most competitive settings possible. Neither side can have this because the former player usually isn't interested in a rank, and the latter doesn't want to play with on bad maps or settings, or even players who may not be interested in competing. Therefore, we're left with either redundant playlists or the competitive player being ignored.
Now the best way to solve all of this would be to first remove most of the gimmicks. Then we give people the option to hide their own rank and then search "social gametypes" within that same playlist. This way, you can play the same playlist in the same settings competitively and only see or match people doing the same.
But since that's not happening, people who don't like playing "Big Team Power Weapons" are either shoehorned into a corner of the game or stuck in customs.
But ranks aren't in game, so it doesn't really matter unless you care about it.
Meaning, I'll probably be going for swat, snipers, action Sack, doubles, throwdown and objective. Everything else I don't care about, so I'll still dick around in those playlists.
Sure it'll show on Waypoint that im getting my ass handed to me in a few playlists, but meh.
I know it's not ideal, I want ranked/social split and in game ranks, but I'm excited for CSR, I won't just be aimlessly playing.
Meaning, I'll probably be going for swat, snipers, action Sack, doubles, throwdown and objective. Everything else I don't care about, so I'll still dick around in those playlists.
Sure it'll show on Waypoint that im getting my ass handed to me in a few playlists, but meh.
I know it's not ideal, I want ranked/social split and in game ranks, but I'm excited for CSR, I won't just be aimlessly playing.
Yeah, they should be able to in an ideal world, but no Halo game has ever been able to support a ranked Big Team playlist (whether it be proper BTB or Squad Battle). I don't see why it would suddenly start working this time when it died in Halo 2, then died (twice, if we're counting Squad) in Halo 3, because it never had a population to support it.
I loved ranked Big Team in Halo 2, but it just doesn't fly with Halo's population.
I don't get why being ranked and having fun are antithetical. The games is about winning and losing whether you're ranked or not. If anything, it's the stupid virtual tchotchkes that fuck the rankings up, because you inevitably have player focus split between acquiring a bunch of bling as fast as possible, and actually seeing the game through towards the real objective - winning. The experience would be purer if it were just about winning or losing. If people need useless virtual gifts showered upon them, there are other games for that - Halo doesn't need to be one of those games to be good.
Twilight Gap
Member
Let's try it this way:
Big Team Battle | total population: 16,000
> Search for ranked games (rank is visible, streamlined settings) | ranked population: 5,000
> Search for unranked games (rank is hidden, default settings) | unranked population: 11,000
This means there ends up being around 10-12 playlists, but each of them contain separate groups of people searching within them. If you want to play FFA competitively one day, the gametypes change to accommodate your search preferences. However, you're still in the same FFA playlist as everyone else.
Since this all happens within a playlist, the playlist itself will never die until both groups stop searching. If Rumble Pit suddenly hit 0 players, it would mean that neither ranked nor unranked matches are being searched.
Granted this wont apply to everything. It's possible a playlist like Flood would have very little people interested in playing it ranked, and MLG wouldn't be played socially. This would only happen in select playlists to eliminate redundancy. For example:
Team Slayer | ranked or unranked
Objective | ranked or unranked
Big Team Battle | ranked or unranked
Free for All | ranked or unranked
Doubles | ranked
Snipers | ranked or unranked
SWAT | ranked
FFA | ranked or unranked
MLG | ranked
Dominion | unranked
Multi-Team | unranked
Grifball | unranked
Flood | unranked
Action Sack | unranked
Rotating Playlist | tentative
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Matchmaking is ruining Halo. Online multiplayer needs a drastic overhaul.
Didn't some of you say BF3 has a decent hybrid between MM/Customs? I was thinking of buying BF3 with MonGo so I have to check that out.. Also, buy BattleBlock Theater.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Yeah but Dice created a monster when they allowed users to rent servers and cut the number of their official ones. Suddenly you would be match made into user servers with a million tickets and dumb ass rules or shitty admins leading to perma bans and other shit.
Big time lold at your post. Who plays ANY game and doesn't want to win? I said it in the last thread, but some of the posters in here need to get a grip and realize that 'fun' and the 'want to win' aren't mutually exclusive. People who play the game to have fun LOVE to win, and people who want to win LOVE to have fun.
WATCH OUT FOR THIS BULLY RIGHT HERE
Remember when MLG had the Sage sigs with Reach? I'm not doubting them but they are stepping in the right direction with the hiring.
Casuals? Some people play CoD just get good K/D's but don't care at all about their Win/Losses.
Seems like more than just a step to me.
We had sage beards in our avatars here for a while lol
Twilight Gap
Member
So distracted that I'm typing the wrong things and reading the wrong words.
What I meant in my previous statement was that there are people who either prefer 'carefree settings' (AAs, ordnance, etc.) or they just don't care for the settings. Whether they play to win or not is their prerogative, but I never meant to say that people who play something like Infinity Slayer don't care about winning.
There are people who prefer those features, and there are those who prefer more competitive and streamlined settings. There are those who play to win and those who don't play to win in both crowds, but it's my observation that people tend to be more interested in winning if the settings are more focused and hardcore.
They're not mutually exclusive, and it was never my intention to say they were. I was only saying that people want to play something like Big Team Battle in different ways. They should have every ability to play it on default or streamlined settings - whether they want to win or not.
BF3 has a server list. You can play on the official DICE servers (if you can find/search for them) or you play on player rented servers. You can search by some settings but I think its only by map, gametype, player count etc.
You could have a server with custom settings and it will be marked so.
Anyway, the big thing thats happened with Halo is the division between casual halo and competitive Halo. It's always been there, but its only been getting bigger.
In Halo 2, all the playlists aside from the obvious like action sack and such, could have been played competitively and fine. People cared about their TS rank and stuff. Sure, there was Team Hardcore but that was for the super competitive people. You could go into team slayer and expect a fair, fun, and competitive game.
Same thing with Halo 3. But the ranked/social split was a bit of a sign of things to come. People cared more about winning in ranked, and ranked was like the Team Hardcore of Halo 3. Ranked MLG being like the elite of the elite. But even if you went into social team slayer or team objective. You could still expect a FAIR, FUN, AND COMPETITIVE match.
Halo Reach's settings started to mess with this. Team Arena was the most fair and competitive, so you were either there, or you had to brave people with all sorts of broken AA's. Bloom aside, the AA's were the only detriment to it being considered competitive. Not being able to tell what player was capable of what, sprinting away, armor locking, going invisible, jetpacking (maybe you could tell a little) made it hard to consider those playlists competitive. But it wasn't too bad.
With Halo 4 the split took a huge jump.
With random global ordnance, the perk and loadout system, pretty much all the playlists were rendered not fair and not competitive. Slayer Pro at launch was plaugued with random ordnance. It wasn't until Team Doubles dropped where we got Doubles Pro. But Doubles Pro's settings were very much on the hardcore side. So you either had to deal with that, or play casual halo.
Now, you have a choice of playing Casual Halo, or the super hardcore Team Throwdown. This is why I'm hoping Legendary Slayer takes off. We need a middle ground and that middle ground needs to be the BASELINE halo experience. If you want to go crazy, go into Infinity Slayer. If you want to go hardcore, go into Throwdown. If you want to play fair, fun, but more laid back, play Legendary.
Its interesting, before I used the term competitive Halo to only refer to ranked playlists or MLG/Hardcore. Under Halo 4's new reign, competitive is becoming synonymous with fair. Which is kind of sad.
xxjuicesxx
Member
I'm not going to buy Halo 5 if it doesn't have 5 small maps and a ranking system from the beginning.
QUOTE ME.
QUOTE ME.
Syphon Filter
Member
Pop
Member
xxjuicesxx
Member
I mean when the game comes out, if I do buy it without that you can quote me. Cause it wont be happening.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
ViewtifulJC
Banned
We should play Reach.
Twilight Gap
Member
xxjuicesxx
Member
I thought ya know if I ever did work on games at MS or a MS studio man I'd have to stop posting like Juices, but I guess it doesnt really matter does it lol. Apparently I can keep posting like an asshole! Good to know.
Hells yea. GF time tonight though and then Sabres game tomorrow so probably wont even be playing games til Saturday
Also for the record. I DID NOT put a SAGE beard on my avatar. I did not give into that crapshoot.
Hells yea. GF time tonight though and then Sabres game tomorrow so probably wont even be playing games til Saturday
Also for the record. I DID NOT put a SAGE beard on my avatar. I did not give into that crapshoot.
God damn, never again will I pour so much blind faith into someone.
Almost as bad as the time I married my wife.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Doesn't want to win or doesn't care to win?
potato, potato.
User 73706
Banned
This. I can play a game without going in expecting to win and still have fun. Winning is nice but I look at the journey above the destination.
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