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[Portugeezer]

Just a reminder to 343i:

LET ME CHOOSE MY FUCKING GAME TYPE! Not vote for mix of game modes in matchmaking.

That is all.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

It'll have to be something subtle...

That's amazing, for the laughs alone.

I want to believe in the option to turn off the text...

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Idea for the objective stuff: In objective games, your team only gets credits after each flag cap or bomb plant or whatever it is. Example: your team caps a flag, everyone gets +1000. After the game is over, the winning team gets a credit bonus.

This promotes winning. If you go into an objective game and play unlimited slayer, that's cool. You just won't get any credits though (assuming you completely ignore the objective.) Also, having ranks will promote trying to win too.

We have to remember: credit payouts cannot stop people from playing unlimited slayer or holding the objective. There are plenty of people who don't care about credits and just get enjoyment out of dominating others, and will drag the game on as long as possible to continue to do so. The only real way to ensure they'll actively try to win is to make the game ranked (which never works out too well population wise.)

 

[Havok]

Oh wait yeah, teamkilling would become more common.

It's really sad that this is even a problem.

It's sad, but at the same time it's a natural progression in a reward system that so singularly focuses on individual performance while ignoring the outcome of a match almost entirely. The very nature of time spent directly correlating to amount of reward is asinine, encouraging stat padding by punishing users who end the game quickly, and I think they realize this now. The Team Objective win bonus is a huge step forward--it still rewards prolonging the game, but it boosts the payout for a 'normal' game enough that I don't feel like I'm getting shafted by three quick caps in a row. I'm not terribly worried about how that stuff will work going forward.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

No, that's Boom Ball.

They're both awesome. Good thing they rarely show up at the same time in voting or else I'd have no idea what to do.

 

[J10]

The past couple pages of discussion has been depressing.

 

[Poker Face]

credits shouldn't exist.

it should just be 1-50.

there i said it.

 

[senador]

The past couple pages of discussion has been depressing.

I must not have read enough. Why?

 

[daedalius]

credits shouldn't exist.

it should just be 1-50.

there i said it.

No bar to fill won't happen.

Just reality bro.

It's sad, but at the same time it's a natural progression in a reward system that so singularly focuses on individual performance while ignoring the outcome of a match almost entirely. The very nature of time spent directly correlating to amount of reward is asinine, encouraging stat padding by punishing users who end the game quickly, and I think they realize this now. The Team Objective win bonus is a huge step forward--it still rewards prolonging the game, but it boosts the payout for a 'normal' game enough that I don't feel like I'm getting shafted by three quick caps in a row. I'm not terribly worried about how that stuff will work going forward.

Agreed, faster wins should yield more xp/cr.

Infinity Slayer being worth the most points is absolutely retarded. Oh well, Bungie decided that your payout was tied to time spent, not performance.

 

[HiredN00bs]

As has been said, kills are essential to objective gametypes, but I don't think they need to be specifically recognized or rewarded if the objectives are sufficiently recognized and rewarded. It's not like people are going to stop going for kills if you don't give them a cR bonus, or a medal. Everyone is going to slay as much as they need to to accomplish the objective if it is sufficiently recognized and rewarded. Instead of "[MULTI KILL]!", or "[SPREE]!" being shouted at the player, give them useful tactical feedback, such as the number of active players on each team (perhaps with a visual indicator just for objective games) that they can make informed gameplay decisions.

If I were more skilled in graphic design, I'd make a mock-up of an objective-specific graphical interface that gives real-time pertinent information, so that at-a-glance I could know the current status of the game:

OUR FLAG (HOME, AWAY, DROPPED w/distance to cap point) -- 3 boxes with 3 unique icons
THEIR FLAG (HOME, AWAY w/distance to cap point, DROPPED w/distance to cap point)
ACTIVE PLAYERS (4 Blue Boxes, 4 Red Boxes, colored squares that are filled in when players are alive, and have a respawn countdown when they are dead).

Furthermore, all team members should be equally rewarded for each objective game milestone, rewarded for winning the match, and should be given bonuses for speed (the faster the victory, the bigger the bonus).

And of course, kills and deaths from objective games should not be counted towards a player's overall kill/death ratio (you'd think they would have made this decision when they made Grifball a permanent playlist).

 

[GrimBrother One]

It'll have to be something subtle...

Almost spit out my drink. Awesome

 

[Poker Face]

No bar to fill won't happen.

Just reality bro.

same bar as reach

goes up when you when you win, down when you lose.

one can hope.

:'-(

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The past couple pages of discussion has been depressing.

Multiple times you've said that, whether it be what we're saying about Halo or we're not discussing Halo enough. Do you even like being here?

 

[Plywood]

credits shouldn't exist.

it should just be 1-50.

there i said it.

It should be 50-1 that way everyone starts out with a 50 and has to work their way down to become number 1.

 

[senador]

same bar as reach

goes up when you when you win, down when you lose.

one can hope.

:'-(

For Halo 5, or what?

 

[daedalius]

same bar as reach

goes up when you when you win, down when you lose.

one can hope.

:'-(

Not enough granularity to move every game. 1-50 is bad anyway, ELO is better, Starcraft system is best.

Having a Starcraft type ranking + XP levels is probably the best approach, and it seems like this might be what they are going towards.

wasn't that what halo 2 used? i thought the bar moved on b.net.

Think so, at least something like it.

 

[Poker Face]

For Halo 5, or what?

probably Halo 7.

Not enough granularity to move every game. 1-50 is bad anyway, ELO is best.

wasn't that what halo 2 used? i thought the bar moved on b.net.

 

[CyReN]

Halo 4 interview with MLG Pro Naded

For the whole 1-50 thing:

• Ranks are a must, are 1-50 needed? No but you can't do another Arena ranking
• Do seasons (Fall, Winter, Spring, Summer) and have ranks reset after 3 months (puts no intensive to sell accounts/boost)
• Still have cheaters? Try something like Rockstar did or run the banhammer
• Getting back to their level will put more intensive for people to play besides the credit system
• Ranks aren't needed for every playlist

 

[Retro]

Okay, this is the last one.

Not because it's killing the joke, but because when I google "Extreme" nothing else comes up.

Almost spit out my drink. Awesome

It was hard to actually make I was laughing at it so much.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Just a reminder to 343i:

LET ME CHOOSE MY FUCKING GAME TYPE! Not vote for mix of game modes in matchmaking.

That is all.

Working On™ Will be in H5.

Not enough granularity to move every game. 1-50 is bad anyway, ELO is better, Starcraft system is best.

Having a Starcraft type ranking + XP levels is probably the best approach, and it seems like this might be what they are going towards.
.

Arena was pretty much SCii system. It had divisions and within that percentiles. Its not really for an FPS in my opinion. People want instant feedback not play some games and then wait around to see where they are...

 

[heckfu]

Okay, this is the last one.



Not because it's killing the joke, but because when I google "Extreme" nothing else comes up.



It was hard to actually make I was laughing at it so much.

You're one of the most brilliant people that 343 refuses to hire.

 

[789shadow]

Retro for Lead Halo 5 War Games Designer.

 

[daedalius]

Halo 4 interview with MLG Pro Naded

For the whole 1-50 thing:

• Ranks are must, are 1-50 needed? No but you can't do another Arena ranking
• Do seasons (Fall, Winter, Spring, Summer) and have ranks reset after 3 months (puts no intensive to sell accounts/boost)
• Still have cheaters? Try something like Rockstar did or run the banhammer.
• Getting back to their level will put no intensive for people to play besides the credit system

The arena ranking was a good idea; I liked the breakdown of the different divisions, as they were quite similar to starcraft divisions, but they made some errors:


1.Making you play multiple games before you saw any rating come up.
2.making you wait until the next day to see where you stood in relation to everyone else
3.relegating the whole thing to ONE slayer playlist... etc.

Arena rankings as they were implemented had the granularity to show progress on a per-game basis, unlike h3 1-50 which might only change every several games; they just decided NOT to show this. If your goal is to raise your rating, watching it go up every game would be pretty satisfying; as you'd be watching yourself progress (just like dat' XP bar).

Arena was pretty much SCii system. It had divisions and within that percentiles. Its not really for an FPS in my opinion. People want instant feedback not play some games and then wait around to see where they are...

There is no reason they couldn't show instant feedback, they just chose not to do it.

Which was a mistake in my opinion. Like I said before, they definitely had the granularity to show you progress every game.

 

[User 73706]

Completely unrelated to the current conversation, but I had an idea if Prometheans are playable: maybe your Armor Abilities are the same, but have different effects depending on species. For example:

Thruster could be the "directional warp" we see.

Sprint could be the blurry, multi-motion zigzag attack they use, and zigzag swipe would basically be equivalent to Sprint melee, but without the option of an additional melee after.

Jetpack could either be a modified version or that sort of "super jump/lunge" we saw when Chief used the scattershot.

Camo would be pretty much the same and explain the "fading in" they do at the end of the trailer.

...autoturret could spawn a Watcher, holy shit.

 

[Trey]

lol @ Snoop Dogg.

 

[squidhands]

Halo 4 interview with MLG Pro Naded

Interesting tidbit about Promethean Vision:

"One of the maps we played named Adrift was designed in a way to make the Promethean Vision less powerful because Promethean Vision can only look through one wall at a time".​

edit: what the fuck is the rocket pistol?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Completely unrelated to the current conversation, but I had an idea if Prometheans are playable: maybe your Armor Abilities are the same, but have different effects depending on species. For example:

Thruster could be the "directional warp" we see.

Sprint could be the blurry, multi-motion zigzag attack they use, and zigzag swipe would basically be equivalent to Sprint melee, but without the option of an additional melee after.

Jetpack could either be a modified version or that sort of "super jump/lunge" we saw when Chief used the scattershot.

Camo would be pretty much the same and explain the "fading in" they do at the end of the trailer.

...autoturret could spawn a Watcher, holy shit.

I don't wanna play the alien from Independence day, sorry.

 

[kittens]

+420 cR, hahaha

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Interesting tidbit about Promethean Vision:

"One of the maps we played named Adrift was designed in a way to make the Promethean Vision less powerful because Promethean Vision can only look through one wall at a time".​

Interesting.

 

[Retro]

...autoturret could spawn a Watcher, holy shit.

I could definitely get behind having a little mechanical Forerunner thing that rides on your back, and when deployed launches up and snags grenades thrown at you for a few seconds.

lol @ Snoop Dogg.

His expression totally says "Hell naw, I wan't even tryin' an' I stuck yo ass"

 

[Gabotron ES]

Completely unrelated to the current conversation, but I had an idea if Prometheans are playable: maybe your Armor Abilities are the same, but have different effects depending on species. For example:

Thruster could be the "directional warp" we see.

Sprint could be the blurry, multi-motion zigzag attack they use, and zigzag swipe would basically be equivalent to Sprint melee, but without the option of an additional melee after.

Jetpack could either be a modified version or that sort of "super jump/lunge" we saw when Chief used the scattershot.

Camo would be pretty much the same and explain the "fading in" they do at the end of the trailer.

...autoturret could spawn a Watcher, holy shit.

This could be the replacement they mentioned in the last bulletin, given how there are already 6 promethean weapons revealed it'd make even more sense

 

[Slightly Live]

343 remove Skulls from Halo.

343 has confirmed that Halo's beloved Skull multiplayer modifiers have gone the way of the Dodo, for the sake of the new weapon and gear levelling system. Speaking to OXM at E3, lead multiplayer designer Kevin Franklin also shed a little more light on the game's multiplayer scoring system. In brief, this is the first Halo game where you'll score points for making a bloody spectacle of yourself.

=/

Sorry, I meant "Fun", instead of "Skulls", silly typo. =P

 

[Tawpgun]

343 remove Skulls from Halo.



=/

Sorry, I meant "Fun", instead of "Skulls", silly typo. =P

.

 

[Steelyuhas]

No cR for kills in objective.

Not only is killing important in objective games, but you should reward your player for actions in your investment system.

Just make the points gained for capping a flag huge so that it's unquestionably the thing to do.

Windows Phone 8 runs of the same kernel as Windows 8 and [presumably] the Xbox 720. Wow. This is good.

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit

Yeah that is really great. Unfortunately they absolutely fucked their current users though. :/

(And butchered the best start screen in the biz)

 

[Louis Wu]

Slaying anyone anywhere on the map helps with completing objectives. One of the worst strategies for objective gametypes is only focusing on the players harassing the objective carrier.

We seem to have moved on from this topic, but I was on the phone, and this post made me curious... it seems to go against everything I know about playing objectives. (Well, Bomb, anyway.) This is not to say it's wrong - I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out that I'm totally clueless, and have been for years... but I'd love some clarification anyway.

Seems to me that slaying people not near the objective carrier is DETRIMENTAL to scoring; it causes them to respawn at their base (which means there are more people to stop the plant). But on a more general level, why is focusing on those people harassing the carrier 'one of the worst strategies'? If there are people far from the carrier, they're not interfering with your scoring attempt... why not leave them where they are?

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Oh no, no confetti when I shoot grunts?! Shock and awe.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

343 remove Skulls from Halo.
=/

Sorry, I meant "Fun", instead of "Skulls", silly typo. =P

But surely they'll have some replacement for Campaign (and SO)?
It doesn't seem like the biggest resource drain, so I think they'll have some way of mixing things up/increasing the difficulty in weird ways (other than bumping it to Legendary).

It'd be a really weird (and sad) decision if there's no replacement, so I think there'll be something.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

...There is no reason they couldn't show instant feedback, they just chose not to do it...

Actually, in the Optimatch fourm on b.net, Jeremiah (NinjaOnFire) addressed the technical reason why they didn't provide instant feedback in the arena system. I know the Optimatch fourm was backed up if you wanna check that post out, I'm sure someone here will know how to find it.

 

[daedalius]

343 remove Skulls from Halo.



=/

Sorry, I meant "Fun", instead of "Skulls", silly typo. =P

This article doesn't even make sense, it doesn't even sound like they are talking about the same thing.

Skulls have never been in competitive multiplayer, yet that is what they are talking about.

Actually, in the Optimatch fourm on b.net, Jeremiah (NinjaOnFire) addressed the technical reason why they didn't provide instant feedback in the arena system. I know the Optimatch fourm was backed up if you wanna check that post out, I'm sure someone here will know how to find it.

If there was a technical reason they couldn't show instant rating feedback, they should have modified it so you could. Besides, I don't get how this makes sense considering we could get swings in rating all the time in H3. Other games are perfectly capable of showing you instant feedback on your rating after a match.

 

[Franklinator]

343 remove Skulls from Halo.



=/

Sorry, I meant "Fun", instead of "Skulls", silly typo. =P

How does that make any sense at all? They removed skulls because they wanted to focus on leveling systems. What?

 

[Plywood]

And what of these new Assists? Well, 343 wants to foster the sort of mutual gain mentality that governs Battlefield 3, with its roster of rewards for supporting actions. Thus, "if you're running and an enemy starts stars shooting at you, but gets killed by a teammate because he was distracted by you, you're rewarded for distracting the enemy.

You're rewarded even if your "distraction" was unintended? wat

 

[Steelyuhas]

You're rewarded even if your "distraction" was unintended? wat

Yeah I assumed from the E3 footage that "distraction" was basically a suppression assist, but it appears not.

Spoiler

Nice avatar

 

[Retro]

You're rewarded even if your "distraction" was unintended? wat

Right, and regardless of score everyone wins and gets a trophy after each match too. It's better for our self-esteem.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

You're rewarded even if your "distraction" was unintended? wat

Hey, I use teammates as distractions for the enemy all the time in multiplayer without their knowledge. They usually die, but their distraction worked! Give them a medal!

 

[squidhands]

343 remove Skulls from Halo.

"..."if you're running and an enemy starts stars shooting at you, but gets killed by a teammate because he was distracted by you, you're rewarded for distracting the enemy.

"This came straight from players in our feedback sessions who felt they should have been rewarded for that."​

This is fucking ridiculous. People want to be rewarded for being a dumbass on the field and getting saved by a teammate? What kind of pansy-ass testers are 343 using?

edit: beaten again, but it's worth pointing out how ludicrous some of these new "rewards" are. Guess it won't be that much of a problem unlocking everything since you'll get a point parade for not even pulling the trigger.

 

[Franklinator]

Distraction medal should be renamed derp medal or bk medal

I'll feel like an idiot every time I "earn" one

 

[Havok]

If there was a technical reason they couldn't show instant rating feedback, they should have modified it so you could. Besides, I don't get how this makes sense considering we could get swings in rating all the time in H3. Other games are perfectly capable of showing you instant feedback on your rating after a match.

Making a placement based solely on one data point is moronic. They were right to not have done it. It is bad science. The difference between that system and the one in 3 was that there was not a linear progression up to the point that it would place you--you had twenty, thirty, fifty games under your belt that the system could use to determine what the next progression was as you approached your ideal skill matching point in Halo 3. This isn't the case in Arena, and that it needs 20 full matches to do it accurately is telling, and not without purpose. The game, after one match, would and should literally not have any idea where to place you since it, if it deserves to exist, wants to make sure it's not going to place you in onyx for crapping on a bunch of recruits and then have you swing to bronze the next game when you are matched against someone who has actually played the game before and lose.

 

[TCKaos]

"..."if you're running and an enemy starts stars shooting at you, but gets killed by a teammate because he was distracted by you, you're rewarded for distracting the enemy.

"This came straight from players in our feedback sessions who felt they should have been rewarded for that."​

This is fucking ridiculous. People want to be rewarded for being a dumbass on the field and getting saved by a teammate? What kind of pansy-ass testers are 343 using?

edit: beaten again, but it's worth pointing out how ludicrous some of these new "rewards" are. Guess it won't be that much of a problem unlocking everything since you'll get a point parade for not even pulling the trigger.

Seeing as there's no way to measure player intent, there's no way to retool the medal in such a way that this couldn't be possible.

 

[BigShow36]

Seems to me that slaying people not near the objective carrier is DETRIMENTAL to scoring; it causes them to respawn at their base (which means there are more people to stop the plant). But on a more general level, why is focusing on those people harassing the carrier 'one of the worst strategies'? If there are people far from the carrier, they're not interfering with your scoring attempt... why not leave them where they are?

I said only focusing on slaying people harassing the objective carrier. Obviously when there is a direct threat to the objective you need to focus on that. However, when someone is able to directly harass the objective carrier its because your team failed to take them into account when they weren't.

Usually, if a player is not directly attacking or moving to attack the objective holder, they are moving to gain a position or item that they view as being more advantageous. One of the most productive strategies as a player going after the other teams objective holder is to avoid conflict with their attacking players to surprise the objective carrier when they least expect it.

A lone enemy player who is not accounted for by a team can wreak much more havok on their objective setup than a team that is controlled and coralled in one location.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Distraction medal should be renamed derp medal or bk medal

I'll feel like an idiot every time I "earn" one

You should lose the equivalent amount of credits as a kill every time you get one for not seeing the guy first.